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1947: Elizabeth Short, "The Black Dahlia"

Discussion in 'Historical Cold Cases - Pre 1950' started by Lily, Jul 22, 2015.

  1. Lily

    Lily Bronze Member

    I found this interesting article on suspect George Hodel, really worth a read and not only re the Dahlia case but also into his other crimes, murder and incestuous rape, and how he got away with those-- and it's a real insight into how corruption protects sick, twisted rich criminals. Poor Tamar** is not the first girl to have been totally gaslighted in court thanks to perps with influence, and sadly far from the last.


    ** 'poor Tamar' -- is reserved for the abused child she was, not the abuser she later became, I must add. Still, she was severely damaged by Hodel.. a good example of how child abuse can spread like the sickness it is, from one generation to another.
    Takeitfromme and Mel70 like this.
  2. Mel70

    Mel70 Bronze Member

    Yeah. "George Hodel" was an EVIL
    Man!!! His SICK things were to stay hidden under the "Guise of Respectability in the Community". I really don't know if he was responsible for "Elizabeth Short" or not. There is good reason her Murder has become so infamous. The lack of "Clues" leading up to and to the circumstances of her "Murder". The "Brutality". And NO ONE WAS EVER CAUGHT! And there is "Jack the Ripper". 1888. Still fascinates.
    Takeitfromme likes this.
  3. It has now been over two years since I first posted on this site. At this time I have some more things to say about it. When I first wrote about this I said only that I thought George Hodel had killed
    Elizabeth Short. I would now say that I am convinced that George Hodel killed Elizabeth Short. Yes I know that this is a 70 plus year old case. Yes I know that there is no DNA or fingerprint or other
    type of unequivocal forensic evidence or a witness. Even still the evidence is such, although it is all circumstantial, that the amount of it is such that there can be no other reasonable explanation. For those who are unfamiliar with what I wrote before I first posted on this thread on February 23, 2017 or post #67. It should take probably about an hour for those who haven't read it yet to get through
    it. If you feel that this is insufficient or weak evidence or if you agree that it is pretty incriminating perhaps now would be the time to say so. Anyway. At this time I have a few things to add to what I
    have already written. One of the incriminating pieces of evidence that I wrote about in post #76 which is the statement that George Hodel purportedly made which is when he said "Supposin' I did kill
    the Black Dahliah. They couldn't prove it now. They can't talk to my secretary anymore because she's dead." (BDA2 p44) Steve Hodel who is of course George Hodel's son said that he felt that this was
    a confession. I wasn't really so sure about that. The more I thought about it though the more incriminating the statement became. The problem with that statement is that it's presented as a stand alone statement. There's no context as to what was said before and after that statement was made. We do know a few things though. When George Hodel made that statement he was with somebody. He was with a man named Baron Ernst von Harringa aka Ernst Meyer (BDA2, Chapter 7). It is very unlikely that George Hodel made this statement out of the blue. I don't want to speculate too much but I suspect that the subject of the Black Dahlia probably came up. Perhaps it was that the Baron said something like "I suspect that they think you killed the Black Dahlia." Thereupon George Hodel made this statement. That is what I call a pseudo-confession. GH never actually said that he killed Elizabeth Short but he alluded to as much. In certain respects a pseudo-confession can be considered to be even more incriminating than an outright confession. The George Hodel statement is reminiscent of other statements by purported killers notably John Wayne Gacy and Ira Einhorn. With John Wayne Gacy he reportedly told a detective " A clown can get away with murder" (www.inspiringquotes/us/author/1001-john-wayne-gacy). Inspiring quotes? Anyway. This was in the early part of the investigation, before Gacy was even arrested. He would later go on to be convicted of many murders and eventually executed. Another quote from a killer comes from Ira Einhorn. The story there was that his girlfriend Holly Maddux went missing. After complaints from neighbors of a foul odor coming from his apartment a police detective investigated and found a trunk in Einhorn's apartment whereupon opening it found the decaying victim's corpse. The detective reportedly said "It looks like we found Holly." To which Einhorn replied "You found what you found" (Wikipedia). In both of these cases neither Gacy nor Einhorn actually confessed to murdering anybody but they both alluded to as much and in both cases these things that they said were considered to be very incriminating evidence. In Einhorn's case especially his statement was considered to be practically the cornerstone of the prosecution's case.

    The second thing is the car. As previously stated a witness, Robert Meyer, stated that he saw a 1936 or 1937 Ford around 6:30 AM on the morning that the body was found on roughly the exact spot
    where ES was found (BDA1, page 153). I had always felt that this was a crucial witness. He stated that although he could not identify the driver, in addition to the car he could say that the lights of the car were off and it was backed off the street again in almost the exact spot that the body of Elizabeth Short was found. He also said that the car was dark in color. You got the impression that this was the killer's car. But this is not an exact match for George Hodel's vehicle. Hodel drove, in addition to a jeep, a 1936 Packard sedan, dark in color. When I wrote about this the last time I felt that the car was kind of neutral evidence but the more that I thought about it the more incriminating I felt that it was. If someone were to show the average person a pre 1920 car what would the average person
    say about that car? Unless they were an expert which the average person is not they would just say that it was a very old car. They might say that it was a car from the early 1900s or maybe they would say that it was a per 1920s car. If you were to show somebody else a car or several from the 1950s and ask what car that was they would, unless they were an expert, say that this was a car from the 1950s. They would probably say that from the fins notable for cars manufactured in that era. But it's unlikely that they would be able to distinguish a Buick from a Chrysler. So it's the era that the car was built that really is the most significant thing. The witness stated that this car seen on the early morning hours of January 15, 1947 was a 1936 or 1937 sedan, the exact era of which is one of the two cars that George Hodel owned. Again this would be a witness stating this in 1947. In addition to this the witness stated that the car was dark in color which Hodel's Packard was which is also pretty significant being one of the more easily identifiable features. After thinking about it for a while I am changing the car from the neutral category into the incriminating column.
    Takeitfromme likes this.
  4. Takeitfromme

    Takeitfromme Professional Journalist/News Reporter

    I have to use my phone to look at this forum as I have been without a computer since I stopped my career in journalism and pursued my career in dog training. I am familiar with the case I do not feel as though I have done the extensive research that many have done such as yourself and @Lily as well as a few others. Would you be as so kind as to post a link to my reply to this post so I can find your original post to carefully look through it to refresh my memory. Yes the case is 70 years old but she was a beautiful girl trying to make it in a very tough industry which I can relate to as the dog training industry is unregulated and is a tough industry to break into and succeed just like all of the men and women who have tried to pursue a career in Hollywood and it seems that not just talent but pure luck is how you make it in that industry. Regardless of who she was anf how she lived her life people care even who did not know her no one wants to see a case with such high-profile and also 70 + years old to go unsolved. It is sad that many cases are never solved because every victim their loved ones whether still with us or not deserve justice and the victims deserve justice and closure if you could even call it that. I had a local case that was about 50 years old that was solved and the crazy part of it is that 2 of the suspects on this case I speak of were not from my hometown but once the case went forward full motion both suspects that ended up arrested charged etc had moved from their hometown with that dark secret into my hometown. I was still actively working in journalism at the time and it was shocking yet heartwarming that the case has been solved after so many years but very disturbing that these people moved to my town raise familes have beautiful wives and after 50 years of a case being unsolved in which these suspects were found to have without a doubt committed the crime. I was honored to be able to report it in the publication I was working for at the time because it was huge news in my area. and I have to say that journalism especially investigative journalism and crime reporting never truly leaves you even if you switch careers. I would love more than anything to see this solved just as much as I would like to see the boy in the box solved.
    many members here have been into the members only section and know my personal story and how I survive several homicide victims. Tho the first being my childhood friend that was abducted and murdered when I was seven and then 9 years later to the day a horrible day for me every year my best friend and her step sister were murdered. That 1 day what are the odds that something like this could affect me and others having the same death date. My best friend and her stepsister case solved suspects were arrested within 3 days it still doesn't change the pain and how I think. My friend when I was 7 is coming up 31 years unsolved.
    I know how it is to receive no justice no closure and it's difficult beyond words I can describe. The Black Dahlia case Elizabeth Short likely does not have any surviving friends or family that I am aware of unless they were very young or just born and too young to know on top of that what happened to her at that time when it occurred. Regardless she deserves Justice and so many the participate in forums like this have shared all their thoughts put in a lot of effort and take cases like this personally for one reason or another. The Black Dahlia case was and is still a huge deal. Regardless of that like I said I would love to see the solved it could even change how very very old unsolved cases are handled, pursued etc. Sorry for rambling on but I've always been an advocate for cold cases whether it is a child or an adult because I can put myself in the shoes of those that survived a homicide victim. Sorry so long and sorry to ramble.
    spike likes this.

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