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Qld BRONTE & ISABELLA WATTER: Missing from Townsville, Qld - 4 April 2014 - Age 8 & 8 *Found Safe*

Discussion in 'Australia: Located/Resolved' started by MarlyWings, May 26, 2015.

  1. Gary

    Gary New Member

    There is difference between hoping and knowing. There seems to be two 'teams' with this one = team cassie and team michael. But there is a third option, and not even the police want to be on that one. Yet.
  2. Lily

    Lily Bronze Member

    I'm not on anyone's "team' .. just looking at this in terms of known facts and some behavioural comparisons made with other 'missing family' cases.

    Compare Michael's public behaviour regarding the case to that of say, Scott Peterson or Mark Redwine, or any of the innumerable known liars whose family members have gone 'missing'. They just don't really tally at all.

    And the facts are .. Cassie was granted only supervised visits with her own kids -because- police and CPS figured out that she'd been coaching her kids into sexual abuse allegations against her husband. And was warned to cease doing it -- and did not. So her time with her children was limited... I suspect Cassie was being influenced by other people, as well, but basically she was in full panic mode, fully believing (despite police and welfare --telling her-- outright and in very plain terms that her children were NOT being molested by their dad) that Michael was harming her kids... and they all up and vanish.

    And as far I'm concerned, even to my relatively untrained eye it's pretty plain that those girls were parrotting a fair amount of what they'd said in the police station.

    Add to that, apparently all her friends in this organisation who have made that web page in her favour are 100% more concerned with her reputation than they are with her safety, or that of the children. Which I find exceedingly odd.

    What I'd like to know more about is.. who is the woman mentioned in the police interview with Cassie, whom the police say "yes, we know (whoever)" in a tone of voice that sounded to me a bit like they weren't very happy with her.... and is that woman a part of the org that has created the cheer-squad web page?
  3. Gary

    Gary New Member

    For what it's worth, I have no reason to believe the courts made the wrong decision. It's why the abduction story makes sense, in fact it's probably exactly what Cassie wanted to do. The diference between bad liars and good liars is the good liars don't get found out. The bottom line is Michael's version of events simply didnt happen - he did not drop the girls at the school and Cassie was not there. The end game here for Michael is he sows the seeds his family are overseas (thanks to help from nameless supporters) and will never be found or that Cassie did a murder suicide herself. Either way it seems he's gotten away with it.
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
    Imamazed and Kimster like this.
  4. Lily

    Lily Bronze Member

    Gary, I can't say for sure something sinister didn't happen to them. But what I am kinda sure of is that any police hearing the first few minutes of those little girls' statements would --have to--- conduct a thorough, multi-agency investigation. And it appears that this did happen, and the consensus of those multiple agencies was that the children were being harmed by their mother coaching them to say that they were molested by their dad.

    Family annihilators... I can see a motive for murder where Cassie is concerned, to be blunt, but I really cannot see one for family annihilation-- the triggers just aren't visibly there. Michael -had- full custody of the kids, and the support of the police and welfare agencies for that. There was none of the loss-of-control trigger that usually precipitates familicide.

    However, all the stressors -are- there for parental abduction, where Cassie is concerned. And she was clearly supported in that idea, by this weird group-- who are not 'un-named' -- the police mention one woman who it sounds like they think was an influence on the kids and/or Cassie, and there's names and an organisation clearly named on the support website which expresses NO concern for their safety at all'. So that's why I don't tend to think he's gotten away with anything.. at this point, and with the information currently at hand.

    edit: And I say 'weird group' because ostensibly they are meant to be a Government agency-- and when have any of us ever seen such an agency make a website in support of an individual, like that? It seems exceedingly odd, to me.

    Knowing whether the woman mentioned by police was part of that same group would be good.. perhaps something to look into, there.

    I would ----love--- to see Michael's police interview, conspicuously absent from the set. I don't think he's been done any favours by the omission of that 'leak'.
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  5. Gary

    Gary New Member

    Lily, I think we are on the same page at least leading up to the events of 4 April 2014. I can't know for sure, but I don't believe Michael abused his children. Maybe Cassie believed he did, or maybe she was just being untruthful. Either way they both despised each other. There are lots of reasons people kill, and concealment is one of them. What was he concealing, after all as you point out he had custody and no obvious motive? Being accused of sexual abuse of your own children is hugely stressful (even if it's not true) - Cassie wouldn't let it go, she enlisted the help of all kinds of people, academics, social workers, you name it. Where did Cassie go on the afternoon/evening of 3 April 2014? The police don't know - It's not inconceivable she ended up at Michael's house, perhaps to argue, maybe to see her kids, who knows? Let's say that they fought and Michael did what men do because they can, and hit her. All of a sudden he is facing a domestic violence charge - a serious charge which could see him lose custody or even worse maybe Cassie's claims of sexual abuse belief might be believed. He reasons he has to act, and so he does. But the noise has woken his children who were sleeping, they see their dead mother - he has a choice, accept responsibility or kill the only witnesses. His tears for his children are real, he wishes he didn't have to do what he did, but he's gone down this path and he can't leave it. As for Cassie's 'supporters' - the thing that links them all is that none of them know anything (despite appearances). The police know who they are, have monitored them and have made no arrests. It's coming up to 4 years and there is no trace, and there never will be.
  6. Lily

    Lily Bronze Member

    Good post, Gary.... you've hit on all the really concerning points, and of course imo it's a possibility that should be kept in mind.

    I was looking into Cassie's rather extensive 'network' though, all centered around the University she attended, where she was a part of a major and very active feminist/activism group, to which several of the the social workers who've been vocal in supporting Cassie also belonged.

    I think it's very possible that this 'network' has helped Cassie to 'disappear'.. they seem highly resourceful, and front and center were involved with Cassie through the accusations and court issues, this Beth person/social worker being mentioned by police in a 'yeah, we know her' context, made me wonder why.

    When I compare this case to others, where are all her supporters putting out flyers, putting up 'missing" websites, where are their accusations of murder (which is a very logical thing to suspect, especially from their position)? It's just very very weird that they're not at all vocal in concern for the safety of Cassie or the kids, given their high level of involvement in her life previously, their active support through the accusations/court cases and the fact that a lot of them are 'activist' types and not shy about speaking up.

    'Disappearing' from a previous identity can be done... just google "I want to disappear and never be found" and read some of the many articles that come up.

    A member of her family told reporters she hopes "they're never found". Who says that, where there's kids involved, and alleged abuse???

    Another of the supporters on that website said she is "aware that the mother and children are in hiding" in a letter of complaint to some politician or other.

    Anyway. it's good we can argue our respective suspicions in a respectful way, both scenarios deserve to be explored.
  7. Gary

    Gary New Member

    Well yes, Cassie certainly has her supporters and an extensive network, and to the best of my knowledge none of them are claiming foul play. But what do they actually know? In a case with precious little objective evidence, one thing stands out. It's on the public record (a youtube video of her parents) that a text message was sent from Cassie's phone to her father after she vanished saying simply 'All OK'. Now if that message was sent by Cassie then it pretty much means that Michael's version of events is what happened, and her 'network' is continuing to hide her. But if it wasn't Cassie that sent it, there aren't many other conclusions you can draw. When you have someone's smart phone, you have everything you need to impersonate them. You can access their email, social media accounts, bank accounts etc. You can send messages to people like 'keep supporting me, I really appreciate it'. It's not surprising her family don't want to give up hope, the hope for them is that if they can convince the police to reinvestigate the abuse allegations, Cassie will come out of hiding.

    Four years is a long time, perhaps in another 4 or 10 or 20 years we might hear something different from her family, friends and supporters.
  8. Lily

    Lily Bronze Member

    'She is definitely being assisted by some other individuals, with places to stay and funds, including with covert bank accounts, that enables her to remain in anonymity.

    'We have examined those closest to her but there is a network of support for her and whether there are support groups or individuals, they are helping her.

    'The people assisting her are committing a criminal offence.

    Snr Sgt Miles revealed that Ms Watter's parents had allegedly discussed a potential plan for her to hand herself in.

    'The mother and father of Cassie said that if they (the children) were returned to them (the grandparents) she would but that is in total contravention of the family court ruling from our perspective,' the lead investigator said.

    A neighbour in Ms Watter's home suburb of North Ward in Townsville has revealed to Daily Mail Australia the lead-up to their disappearance.

    'She had a garage sale just before they disappeared, she sold a bunch of little girls clothes,' the neighbour claimed.

    She lived there with a couple of female house-mates, one night I saw them running up and down the stairs carrying boxes and other things and then we never saw the women again.

    'A couple of days later two other people went in and were frantically moving things.

    Imamazed likes this.
  9. Gary

    Gary New Member

    These are good links. I have no doubt that in April 2014 Snr Sgt Miles thought this case would be solved quickly and someone would turn them in. He was so certain in fact, that he allowed Cassie's father to 'lend' her car to one of her ex flatmates (they are known to the police, if not their neighbour) the very next day after it was discovered without doing any forensic testing of any kind on it. No testing for finger prints or other evidence that someone other than Cassie was the last driver, and he gave the girls backpacks straight to Michael without thinking maybe he should test the clothes 'just in case' to ascertain when, or if, they had been worn. I'm sure Cassie's parents would have jumped at the chance to take the kids in 2014, just like they would today.

    Now the daily mail article is interesting. Assuming the picture is Cassie and the girls (a big if) - when was it taken? The story is dated November 2015 - when the girls would have been nearly 9 years old. The picture is taken from a distance, but in my non-expert opinion the girls look no older than 6 years old. At their disappearance they were 7 years and 3 months. As I understand it the picture was submitted anonymously (perhaps the photo is from the Townsville area). Maybe the police know more about the circumstances of the picture, and who took it...or perhaps they don't?
  10. Lily

    Lily Bronze Member

    I agree-- however, as said in the article, that would contravene the court's orders, and would only result in the kids being handed straight to Michael by police, so there's no way she'd do that. What was interesting there is that any negotiation was happening at all... there must have been some contact.

    I don't put any stock at all in those pictures, which is why they were not included in my post.
  11. SheWhoMustNotBeNamed

    SheWhoMustNotBeNamed Administrator Staff Member


    Missing Queensland twins found four years on

    Twin girls from Townsville who went missing four years ago have been found safe and well.

    Isabella and Bronte Watter, then aged seven, were taken into hiding by their mother Cassie Watter on April 4, 2014.

    The girls, now aged 11, were with their mother when they were found in Taree, on the morning of Friday, May 4.

    The children's grandmother, Heather Doubleday, said she was relieved to hear from her daughter after four years of silence.

    "We had a phone call from Cassie saying she was in police custody in Taree,” Mrs Doubleday said.

    “She was found with Bronte and Isabella.

    “Cassie sounded very composed.

    "It was a bit of a shock but it was just lovely to hear from her."

    Uno2Much, Lily, Kimster and 1 other person like this.
  12. SheWhoMustNotBeNamed

    SheWhoMustNotBeNamed Administrator Staff Member

    Mother is charged with abducting her twin daughters, 11, as the two girls are found four years after they vanished from schoo

    The mother of two girls who were found four years after they vanished from school has been charged with abducting her daughters.

    She has since been extradited to Queensland and charged with two counts of child stealing. She will face court in Brisbane on Tuesday.

    The girls, now 11, were with their mother when they were found in Taree, New South Wales, on Friday morning after Australian Federal Police descended on the property.

    Mr Watter told the Courier Mail that he rushed to Taree to be with his children.

    He said: 'I got a call while I was at work and it was the federal police ringing to say they'd located the girls and that I was able to come and pick them up.

    'A bit of excitement and a bit of nerves I guess, but I'm just looking forward to my girls being able to get back to a normal life after years of insecurity and instability.'

    Uno2Much, Lily and Paradise like this.
  13. SheWhoMustNotBeNamed

    SheWhoMustNotBeNamed Administrator Staff Member

    Mother charged with kidnapping her children will have to wear tracking device on bail

    A mother accused of stealing her two children in Townsville four years ago will have to wear a tracking device as part of her bail conditions.

    The 45-year-old was granted bail in the Supreme Court in Brisbane today.

    She applied to have her case heard in the Supreme Court after her bail was previously rejected in the Brisbane Magistrates Court.

    The mother was arrested in early May in Taree on the New South Wales mid-north coast and was extradited to Queensland, where she was formally charged with two counts of child stealing.

    Justice Peter Davis gave her 16 strict conditions,including a temporary ban on seeing her children subject to any further court order.

    The woman, who cannot named for legal reasons, will live with her parents in Townsville, despite police suspicions they helped her carry out the offence.

    Justice Peter Davis said the most visible risk of granting the mother bail was the possibility of her taking the children again.

    The prosecution was particularly concerned with the length of time the mother was able to evade police.

    "That's four years of hiding and she is quite good at it," Matt Hynes said.

    But, he agreed the fact the children were not living in Townsville would reduce the risk of her reoffending.

    Ultimately Justice Davis was satisfied the mother was not a serious flight risk.

    Outside court the woman's lawyer, Phil Rennick, read a statement asking for people to stop their social media attacks on her and the children's father, saying the hatred and vindictiveness was not helpful to the daughters.

    "The only people who know the truth about what they have been through are the girls themselves," the statement read.

    "It is their story to tell when they are old enough to be allowed to... and then only if they wish to do so."

    The daughters have been returned to their father in south-east Queensland.

    Uno2Much and Paradise like this.
  14. Kimster

    Kimster Director Staff Member

    I can't believe it took that long! But I'm sure glad they've been found!
  15. Lily

    Lily Bronze Member

    I KNEW IT! Alive and well, could not be better news ... but I'm pissed Cassie has bail. FOUR years she took those kids, and if she was a man she'd not be walking about free and that's just a fact.

    And God only knows what she and her loopy mates have filled those kids heads with all this time. But I bet I can guess. If they were mine? I'd have them in deprogramming, just as if they'd be taken by a cult. Which, essentially, they WERE. . And I am dead serious about that. I hope these "friends" are seriously investigated for this crime, I really do.

    I'm happy and furious at the same time.
  16. Lily

    Lily Bronze Member

    Apparently, the grandparents are going for custody. And look at the damage this woman has caused.... police careers ruined, for pointing out the obvious. Her ex labelled a pedophile. If none of her allegations are true... and I strongly suspect they are not, then I hope there's justice for all concerned.

    But there probably won't be any, because her cult packs a political punch over here. I fully expect Cassie and her kids to be used as pawns in their long game. There will be a lot of noise, and no justice, just my prediction.

    Look what's happening already.. Cassie free on bail, and no charges for her cult who helped her steal the kids. Can't be named = NO charges.

    And I'll bet 100 bucks that --every-- person who in future provides 'evidence' to back Cassie up is from or associated with, or allied with this cult. Lotta people with University clout, jobs in Govt. Very insidious, and very bad news for all the good men out there having their lives ruined by people like this.

    And yes, sadly I know a few. But we're not supposed to care about them anymore, or we're apologists for domestic abuse. Whether it actually exists or not.


    The mother had complained about an unsatisfactory police investigation, and a complaint lodged with the Crime and Misconduct Commission eventually resulted in a finding in March 2016 that the investigation had been 'inadequate' and 'unprofessional'.

    As a result of the findings, one officer left the police force and others were retrained.

    However, by the time the findings were released Mrs Watter and the children were missing.

    Several inquiries have been underway since she and the twins disappeared in 2014.

    Friends of the mother and children, who can't be named to protect their identity, have supported Mrs Watter since her disappearance.

  17. Kimster

    Kimster Director Staff Member

    Yeah, can't be named because they were harbouring a FUGITIVE, right?

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