1. ALABAMA: An AMBER Alert has been issued for Kamille McKinney, 3, abducted from a birthday party in Birmingham on Oct 12.
    The suspect vehicle has been located and a man has been taken into custody, but Kamille is still missing.
    Click HERE for more information

    NEW JERSEY: An AMBER Alert has been issued for 5-year-old Dulce Alavez, abducted from a park in Bridgeton on September 16.
    She may have been lured into a red van by an unknown male, possibly Hispanic.
    Click HERE for more information
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Keeping Children and Adults Safe
    Click Here for more information!
    Dismiss Notice
  3. What do you do if you have a loved one missing?
    In this section, you will find tips on what to do and not do.
    Easily find organizations that you can contact for help.
    Click here for more information
    Dismiss Notice
  4. “We can't help everyone, but everyone can help someone.”
    Our mission: Working together to help locate the missing, name the unidentified
    and discuss true crime cases within an intellectual, safe and respectful Internet community.
    *~*~*~*Don't forget, we are on Facebook! www.facebook.com/CrimeWatchersNet*~*~*~*~*
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Welcome to Crimewatchers.net! We are happy to have you with us.
Please let any staff member know if you need assistance. We're here to help! (If you aren't a member, please join us today. We'd love to meet you!)
Dismiss Notice
Crimewatchers.net opened on April 26, 2015 with the purpose of making a difference in getting the word out for the missing, unidentified, and justice for victims. Let us know if you have a case you'd like us to feature here, on Twitter &/or Facebook. Contact email: CrimewatchersCW@gmail.com

UK Jack the Ripper - 1888

Discussion in 'Europe: Cold Cases' started by Lily, Jul 15, 2015.

  1. Lily

    Lily Bronze Member

    No criminal has captured the public mind across so many continents and for so many years as the unidentified serial killer roaming Whitechapel, London, in the autumn of 1888, known to all as Jack the Ripper.

    The sheer amount of information on this case is overwhelming, to say the least, and it would be impossible to sum up the case in any proper detail in the space of a single post. Suffice to say that somewhere between 3-11 women are believed to be victims of this killer, though many "Ripperologists" have narrowed the number down to the "canonical five" generally assumed to have been murdered by the same hand.

    There is, however, a great deal of debate still running hot about whether the "canonical five" should be three, or six, or more (or less).

    Never mind the mind-boggling amount of debate on potential suspects, of which there are dozens and dozens, some more believable than others.

    I'd love to hear your Ripper theories!
  2. Lily

    Lily Bronze Member

    One good thing that has come of all the many years of research into the various victims ascribed to the Ripper, is that we can 'see' into the lives of these women, all "unfortunates" if not all prostitutes (there's some debate over whether all the victims actually were prostitutes, but they all were certainly 'unfortunates' living in abject poverty).

    Whitechapel was about one square mile of land in London's East End, into which were crowded an estimated 90,000 people, most of whom were working class poor, destitutes or immigrants. Many were so poor that they sold themselves to a workhouse, a kind of indentured slavery, where the workers were basically imprisoned and worked long and gruelling hours for the benefit of some terrible food and an overcrowded sleeping place. It was a last resort for those whom the alternative was to starve in the streets.

    It's no wonder then that many women facing financial ruin turned to casual or professional prostitution to simply get by from day to day. Several of the Ripper's victims had come from more respectable circumstances, had been married with children, had been in more respectable employ, but by the autumn of 1888 were walking the dim, gaslit streets late at night, most of them drunk or habitual alcoholics looking for a few pence with which to pay for their lodgings. The lowest prostitutes, older and not very attractive, could expect to earn maybe 2-4 pence from the average customer, three pence being usual, the going rate for a glass of gin or the chance to sleep in a doss-house, out of the cold. It was a common practice for the many who slept in doss-houses (crowded public bunkhouses, where beds were often hard to get) to go with a customer into an alleyway or other quiet nook and have sex standing up - it would be a bad idea to lie down in such a place, the streets were absolutely filthy and paved in hard cobblestones.

    There's a great deal more that can be said about the conditions in which the Ripper's victims lived at the time of the murders, too much to include here, but it's very worth looking into for background and just for interest's sake. Our American members might be more familiar with the notorious Five Points area of Manhattan in that era, which Charles Dickens visited and thought not only comparable to London's slums, but worse.
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2015
    Akoya, Cousin Dupree and GarAndMo49 like this.
  3. Lily

    Lily Bronze Member

    The Canonical Five

    1. Mary Ann (Polly) Nichols


    Polly Nichols had a husband and five children, and among other jobs had worked as a servant to wealthier homes in other parts of England. However, she was an alcoholic and more than two decades of marriage ended, made problematic by her drinking. A few years after that, she did several stints in Lambeth workhouse, after being caught 'sleeping rough' as a vagrant, before she ended up in Whitechapel, destitute and selling herself for a few pence to get her 'doss money' for the night. At the time of her death, she was sharing a room with a woman named Emily "Nelly" Holland, in a Spitalfields 'common lodging-house' (dosshouse) which cost her a few pence per night for the room.

    However low she'd fallen, Polly did cling to aspects of her former respectability, with those who knew her well describing her as a very neat and clean person, a sensible sort of person when sober, and well-liked by all who knew her. The doctor examining her body after her murder remarked on her good personal hygiene. She was 43 years old, and despite missing five of her front teeth, and being severely alcoholic, still reportedly looked 10 years younger. She was 5 feet 2 inches tall, and had brown eyes and greying dark brown hair.

    The murder:

    Polly was drinking on the 30th August, 1888, and after leaving a pub around 11pm had a cheap meal at a Thrawl-street boarding house, but was turned out because she didn't have the fourpence required for a bed. She told the owner she'd soon be back with her doss money, because she'd just got a new hat. "Look what a jolly bonnet I've got." The hat was black straw with a black velvet trim, and Polly didn't mention to anyone where she'd got it.

    She was last seen alive about one hour before her murder, standing at the corner of Osborn Street and Whitechapel Road at approximately 2:30 am. That autumn was dismally cold and wet, moreso than usual. She told her roommate that she'd earned the money to pay for the doss-house room "three times over" but had spent the money each time on alcohol. Now she had to go and earn a few pence more.

    Polly was literally wearing everything she owned. She wore several layers of clothing, and in pockets sewn in the underlayers, kept her meager possessions. A list of the belongings found with her is as follows (from Casebook):

    • Black Straw bonnet trimmed with black velvet
    • Reddish brown ulster with seven large brass buttons bearing the pattern of a woman on horseback accompanied by a man.
    • Brown linsey frock (apparently new, possibly stolen)
    • White flannel chest cloth
    • Black ribbed wool stockings
    • Two petticoats, one gray wool, one flannel. Both stenciled on bands "Lambeth Workhouse"
    • Brown stays (short)
    • Flannel drawers
    • Men's elastic (spring) sided boots with the uppers cut and steel tips on the heels
    • Comb
    • White pocket handkerchief
    • Broken piece of mirror (a prized possession in a lodging house)

    At about 3:40 am, August 31, a cart driver named Charles Cross (aka Lechmere), discovered Pollys lying on the ground in front of a gated stable entrance in Buck's Row, Whitechapel, about 150 yards from the London Hospital. She may have marginally still alive when found, or had only just died moments before.

    From Wiki:

    Her skirt was raised. Another passing cart driver on his way to work, Robert Paul, approached and Cross pointed out the body. Cross believed her to be dead, but Paul was uncertain and thought she may simply be unconscious. They pulled her skirt down to cover her lower body, and went in search of a policeman. Upon encountering PC Jonas Mizen, Cross informed the constable: "She looks to me to be either dead or drunk, but for my part, I believe she's dead."[12] The two men then continued on their way to work, leaving Mizen to inspect Nichols' body.

    As Mizen approached the body, PC John Neil came from the opposite direction on his beat and by flashing his lantern, called a third policeman, PC John Thain, to the scene. As news of the murder spread, three horse slaughterers from a neighbouring knacker's yard in Winthrop Street, who had been working overnight, came to look at the body. None of the slaughterers, the police officers patrolling nearby streets, or the residents of houses alongside Buck's Row reported hearing or seeing anything suspicious before the discovery of the body.[13]

    PC Thain fetched surgeon Dr Henry Llewellyn, who arrived at 04:00 and decided she had been dead for about 30 minutes.[14] Her throat had been slit twice from left to right and her abdomen mutilated with one deep jagged wound, several incisions across the abdomen, and three or four similar cuts on the right side caused by the same knife at least 6–8 inches (15–20 cm) long used violently and downwards.[15] Llewellyn expressed surprise at the small amount of blood at the crime scene, "about enough to fill two large wine glasses, or half a pint at the most". His comment led to the supposition that Nichols was not killed where her body was found, but the blood from her wounds had soaked into her clothes and hair, and there was little doubt that she had been killed at the crime scene by a swift slash to the throat.[16] Death would have been instantaneous, and the abdominal injuries, which would have taken less than five minutes to perform, were made by the murderer after she was dead. When a person is killed, further wounds to their body do not result in a large amount of blood loss. When the body was lifted a "mass of congealed blood", in PC Thain's words, lay beneath the body.[17]

    The inquest report (from Wiki):

    Five of the teeth were missing, and there was a slight laceration of the tongue. There was a bruise running along the lower part of the jaw on the right side of the face. That might have been caused by a blow from a fist or pressure from a thumb. There was a circular bruise on the left side of the face which also might have been inflicted by the pressure of the fingers. On the left side of the neck, about 1in. below the jaw, there was an incision about 4in. in length, and ran from a point immediately below the ear. On the same side, but an inch below, and commencing about 1in. in front of it, was a circular incision, which terminated at a point about 3in. below the right jaw. That incision completely severed all the tissues down to the vertebrae. The large vessels of the neck on both sides were severed. The incision was about 8in. in length. The cuts must have been caused by a long-bladed knife, moderately sharp, and used with great violence.

    No blood was found on the breast, either of the body or the clothes. There were no injuries about the body until just about the lower part of the abdomen. Two or three inches from the left side was a wound running in a jagged manner. The wound was a very deep one, and the tissues were cut through. There were several incisions running across the abdomen. There were three or four similar cuts running downwards, on the right side, all of which had been caused by a knife which had been used violently and downwards. The injuries were from left to right and might have been done by a left-handed person. All the injuries had been caused by the same instrument.


    Some very detailed info is available at: http://www.casebook.org/victims/polly.html
    Akoya and SheWhoMustNotBeNamed like this.
  4. Lily

    Lily Bronze Member

    The Canonical Five

    2. Annie Chapman


    Annie Chapman was 47 years old in 1888, and suffering from the symptoms of advance tuberculosis or possibly syphilis, her lungs and brain showing signs of advanced disease. She was a stout woman, and appears to have been something of a binge drinker - of usually sober habits, but with an occasional "taste for the rum".

    Like Polly Nichols, Annie had once led a more respectable life, married with children and gainfully employed. However, by 1888 her marriage was long dissolved. Though her husband sent her money regularly since the split (supplementing the income she made by selling flowers and crochet-work), he'd died of liver disease (he was a heavy drinker) on 1886. Two years later, Annie had turned to prostitution to survive. She was destitute and staying regularly in a Spitalfields doss-house with about 300 other people.

    And like Polly, Annie seemed to wear and carry most of her possessions on her. At the time of her death, she had (from Casebook):

    • Long black figured coat that came down to her knees.
    • Black skirt
    • Brown bodice
    • Another bodice
    • 2 petticoats
    • A large pocket worn under the skirt and tied about the waist with strings (empty when found)
    • Lace up boots
    • Red and white striped woolen stockings
    • Neckerchief, white with a wide red border (folded tri-corner and knotted at the front of her neck. she is wearing the scarf in this manner when she leaves Crossingham's)
    • Had three recently acquired brass rings on her middle finger (missing after the murder)
    • Scrap of muslin
    • One small tooth comb
    • One comb in a paper case
    • Scrap of envelope she had taken form the mantelpiece of the kitchen containing two pills. It bears the seal of the Sussex Regiment. It is postal stamped "London, 28,Aug., 1888" inscribed is a partial address consisting of the letter M, the number 2 as if the beginning of an address and an S.

    In the first week of September, 1888, Annie had been in a fight with another woman and still had bruises to show from it. On the night of September 7th, she was feeling unwell but told a friend at about 5pm that she had to go and earn her bed-money. She would presumably have gone to Stratford, this being her usual 'beat' for prostitution, but reported to someone else later that she borrowed a few pence from a sister in Vauxhall.

    At 11.30 pm she'd made her way back to the doss-house, and had presumably spent all her money on drink. She came and went for the next couple of hours, during which she ate a baked potato in the kitchen and drank a beer with another lodger. At 1.35am of September 8th, she returned again, obviously drunk, and still had no money for her room. She asked that her bed be kept for her and left again, presumably to earn the required money.

    Annie was seen a few hours later at around 5.30am by Elizabeth Long, who said she saw Annie talking to a man "hard against the shutters" of 29 Hanbury Street, who asked "Will you?", to which Annie replied, "Yes".

    The murder:

    Just a few minutes after Long saw Annie, a young carpenter living in the house next door (No. 27) got up and went outside to the back yard, presumably to use the outhouse. He heard a woman cry "No!" and something hitting the fence.

    Annie's body was discovered in the back doorway of 29 Hanbury St, just before 6am, by a carman who lived on the third floor of that building with his family. She was close to the fence, with her head toward the door. He went to fetch the police, who returned with him, and the following observations were made by Dr. George Bagster Phillips at 6.30am, September 8, (from the inquest report):

    "The left arm was placed across the left breast. The legs were drawn up, the feet resting on the ground, and the knees turned outwards. The face was swollen and turned on the right side. The tongue protruded between the front teeth, but not beyond the lips. The tongue was evidently much swollen. The front teeth were perfect as far as the first molar, top and bottom and very fine teeth they were. The body was terribly mutilated...the stiffness of the limbs was not marked, but was evidently commencing. He noticed that the throat was dissevered deeply.; that the incision through the skin were jagged and reached right round the neck...On the wooden paling between the yard in question and the next, smears of blood, corresponding to where the head of the deceased lay, were to be seen. These were about 14 inches from the ground, and immediately above the part where the blood from the neck lay.

    He should say that the instrument used at the throat and abdomen was the same. It must have been a very sharp knife with a thin narrow blade, and must have been at least 6 in. to 8 in. in length, probably longer. He should say that the injuries could not have been inflicted by a bayonet or a sword bayonet. They could have been done by such an instrument as a medical man used for post-mortem purposes, but the ordinary surgical cases might not contain such an instrument. Those used by the slaughtermen, well ground down, might have caused them. He thought the knives used by those in the leather trade would not be long enough in the blade. There were indications of anatomical knowledge...he should say that the deceased had been dead at least two hours, and probably more, when he first saw her; but it was right to mention that it was a fairly cool morning, and that the body would be more apt to cool rapidly from its having lost a great quantity of blood. There was no evidence...of a struggle having taken place. He was positive the deceased entered the yard alive...

    A handkerchief was round the throat of the deceased when he saw it early in the morning. He should say it was not tied on after the throat was cut."

    From the postmortem report:

    "He noticed the same protrusion of the tongue. There was a bruise over the right temple. On the upper eyelid there was a bruise, and there were two distinct bruises, each the size of a man's thumb, on the forepart of the top of the chest. The stiffness of the limbs was now well marked. There was a bruise over the middle part of the bone of the right hand. There was an old scar on the left of the frontal bone. The stiffness was more noticeable on the left side, especially in the fingers, which were partly closed. There was an abrasion over the ring finger, with distinct markings of a ring or rings. The throat had been severed as before described. the incisions into the skin indicated that they had been made from the left side of the neck. There were two distinct clean cuts on the left side of the spine. They were parallel with each other and separated by about half an inch. The muscular structures appeared as though an attempt had made to separate the bones of the neck. There were various other mutilations to the body, but he was of the opinion that they occurred subsequent to the death of the woman, and to the large escape of blood from the division of the neck.

    The deceased was far advanced in disease of the lungs and membranes of the brain, but they had nothing to do with the cause of death. The stomach contained little food, but there was not any sign of fluid. There was no appearance of the deceased having taken alcohol, but there were signs of great deprivation and he should say she had been badly fed. He was convinced she had not taken any strong alcohol for some hours before her death. The injuries were certainly not self-inflicted. The bruises on the face were evidently recent, especially about the chin and side of the jaw, but the bruises in front of the chest and temple were of longer standing - probably of days. He was of the opinion that the person who cut the deceased throat took hold of her by the chin, and then commenced the incision from left to right. He thought it was highly probable that a person could call out, but with regard to an idea that she might have been gagged he could only point to the swollen face and the protruding tongue, both of which were signs of suffocation.

    The abdomen had been entirely laid open: the intestines, severed from their mesenteric attachments, had been lifted out of the body and placed on the shoulder of the corpse; whilst from the pelvis, the uterus and its appendages with the upper portion of the vagina and the posterior two thirds of the bladder, had been entirely removed. No trace of these parts could be found and the incisions were cleanly cut, avoiding the rectum, and dividing the vagina low enough to avoid injury to the cervix uteri. Obviously the work was that of an expert- of one, at least, who had such knowledge of anatomical or pathological examinations as to be enabled to secure the pelvic organs with one sweep of the knife, which must therefore must have at least 5 or 6 inches in length, probably more. The appearance of the cuts confirmed him in the opinion that the instrument, like the one which divided the neck, had been of a very sharp character. The mode in which the knife had been used seemed to indicate great anatomical knowledge.

    He thought he himself could not have performed all the injuries he described, even without a struggle, under a quarter of an hour. If he had down it in a deliberate way such as would fall to the duties of a surgeon it probably would have taken him the best part of an hour."

    Casebook info: http://www.casebook.org/victims/chapman.html
    Wikipedia article on Annie: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annie_Chapman
    Akoya and Kimster like this.
  5. Lily

    Lily Bronze Member

    The Canonical Five

    3. Elizabeth Stride


    Liz Stride was a Swedish national, nee Elisabeth Gustafsdotter, who had moved to London in 1866. While there's much conjecture as whether she was working as a prostitute at the time of her death, there are records from Sweden indicating that she'd been arrested for prostitution there on 1865, and later that year was treated in a Swedish hospital for a "venereal chancre", possibly herpes or syphilis.

    Prior to this, she'd worked as domestic servant for a Swedish family, and reportedly moved to London "in the service of a foreign gentlemen". She seems to have continued work as a domestic prior to her marriage to John Stride in 1869. John and Liz ran a coffee shop on Poplar until 1875, when the business was sold. But by 1881 it seems the marriage had fallen apart and she was down on her luck - Liz was treated for bronchitis for a few months, Dec '81 to Jan '82, at a Whitechapel infirmary and went straight from there to the Whitechapel Workhouse.

    In 1882 Liz was living at a common lodging-house in Flower and Dean Street, Whitechapel, and her husband died two years later of heart disease in 1884.

    In 1885 she started living with a man named Michael Kidney, seven years her junior, in Devonshire Street. They had a stormy, on-and-off relationship, with Liz often vanishing for periods of time to go "on the town", only to return. She was drinking heavily in the couple of years before her death, and was often arrested on drunk and disorderly charges. Michael reported that he'd done his best to keep her in and away from the drink, even to the point of locking her in their room, to no avail. She appears to have had very little income, prevailing several times on the Swedish Church for alms. In 1887 she spent some time in the Poplar Workhouse, and a month later reported Kidney for domestic violence, but declined to press charges.

    From Casebook:

    On Tuesday, September 25, 1888, Michael Kidney sees her for the last time. He expects her to be home when he arrives from work but she is not. Kidney is unconcerned as she has done this often. "It was drink that made her go away," he said. "She always returned without me going after her. I think she liked me better than any other man."

    Wednesday, September 26 finds her at the lodging house at 32 Flower and Dean Street. She had not been there in the last three months. She tells Catherine Lane that she had words with the man she was living with. Her being at the lodging house is confirmed by none other than Dr. Thomas Barnardo, a doctor who had taken to street preaching and then opened a famous home for destitute boys.

    Dr. Barnardo had visited the lodging house to get opinions on his scheme 'by which children at all events could be saved at least from the contamination of the common lodging houses and the street.' On entering the kitchen at 32 Flower and Dean he found the women and girls there "...thoroughly frightened." They were discussing the murders. One woman, probably drunk cried bitterly "We're all up to no good, no one cares what becomes of us! Perhaps some of us will be killed next!"

    On viewing the body, Barnardo will recognize Liz instantly as one of the women in the kitchen.

    Thursday-Friday, September 27-28. Liz continues to lodge at 32 Flower and Dean Street. According to Elizabeth Tanner, the lodging house deputy, she arrived at the house after a quarrel with Kidney. Kidney will deny this.

    Saturday-Sunday, September 29-30, 1888. The weather this evening is showery and windy. Elizabeth spends the afternoon cleaning two rooms at the lodging house. For her services she is paid 6d by Elizabeth Tanner.


    After she'd been paid, Liz went out for a few drinks and returned to the lodging-house but left again somewhere between 7 and 8pm. She still had her pay from the day on her and had somewhere acquired a length of green velvet, which she asked another woman to mind for her. Like the previous victims, she carried many of her belongings on her (from Casebook):

    At the time of her death Elizabeth Stride (47 years old) was wearing:
    • Long black cloth jacket, fur trimmed around the bottom with a red rose and white maiden hair fern pinned to it. (She was not wearing the flowers when she left the lodging house.)
    • Black skirt
    • Black crepe bonnet
    • Checked neck scarf knotted on left side
    • Dark brown velveteen bodice
    • 2 light serge petticoats
    • 1 white chemise
    • White stockings
    • Spring sided boots
    • 2 handkerchiefs (one, the larger, is noticed at the postmortem to have fruit stains on it.)
    • A thimble
    • A piece of wool wound around a card
    In the pocket in her underskirt:
    • A key (as of a padlock)
    • A small piece of lead pencil
    • Six large and one small button
    • A comb
    • A broken piece of comb
    • A metal spoon
    • A hook (as from a dress)
    • A piece of muslin
    • One or two small pieces of paper
    And in her hand at the time was found a packet of breath mints, known as 'cachous'.

    Between 11pm on the 29th September and 12.35 am on the 30th, Liz is seen by several people in the company of several different men.

    Ar 12.45am she was seen apparently being assaulted (from the Home Office File):

    "Israel Schwartz of 22 Helen Street, Backchurch Lane, stated that at this hour, turning into Berner Street from Commercial Road, and having gotten as far as the gateway where the murder was committed, he saw a man stop and speak to a woman, who was standing in the gateway. He tried to pull the woman into the street, but he turned her round and threw her down on the footway and the woman screamed three times, but not very loudly. On crossing to the opposite side of the street, he saw a second man lighting his pipe. The man who threw the woman down called out, apparently to the man on the opposite side of the road, "Lipski", and then Schwartz walked away, but finding that he was followed by the second man, he ran as far as the railway arch, but the man did not follow so far.

    Schwartz cannot say whether the two men were together or known to each other. Upon being taken to the mortuary Schwartz identified the body as that of the woman he had seen.

    Schwartz describes the man as about 30 years old, 5' 5" tall with a fresh complexion, dark hair and small brown mustache. He is dressed in an overcoat and an old black felt hat with a wide brim.

    At the same time, James Brown says he sees Stride with a man as he was going home with his supper down Fairclough Street. She was leaning against the wall talking to a stoutish man about 5' 7" tall in a long black coat that reached to his heels. He has his arm against the wall. Stride is saying "No, not tonight, some other night."

    The murder:

    At 1am, a jewellery salesman entered Dutfield Yard in his pony cart. The pony shied and wouldn't enter the yard. Looking for the cause by probing about with his buggy whip in the pitch dark, the salesman found Liz's body in the yard's entrance and thought her drunk or sleep. He went to get help from a nearby men's club, and on his return with some others, saw Liz had her throat cut.

    Liz's body was free of the kind of extensive mutilation seen in the first two canonical victims. This has led to a lot of conjecture over whether she was actually a Ripper victim or not. It's believed by many Ripperlogists that the Ripper was interrupted by the pony cart's arrival before he had a chance to commit the same postmortem mutilations as on the others, and that yet another "ripped" victim (Catherine Eddowes, see next post) was found on that exact same night was the result of the Ripper being unable to 'finish' his crime to completion with Liz.

    At the crime scene once more, was Dr. George Bagster Philips, accompanied by local doctor Frederick William Blackwell:

    "The body was lying on the near side, with the face turned toward the wall, the head up the yard and the feet toward the street. The left arm was extended and there was a packet of cachous in the left hand.

    The right arm was over the belly, the back of the hand and wrist had on it clotted blood. The legs were drawn up with the feet close to the wall. The body and face were warm and the hand cold. The legs were quite warm.

    Deceased had a silk handkerchief round her neck, and it appeared to be slightly torn. I have since ascertained it was cut. This corresponded with the right angle of the jaw. The throat was deeply gashed and there was an abrasion of the skin about one and a half inches in diameter, apparently stained with blood, under her right arm.

    At three o'clock p.m. on Monday at St. George's Mortuary, Dr. Blackwell and I made a post mortem examination. Rigor mortis was still thoroughly marked. There was mud on the left side of the face and it was matted in the head.;

    The Body was fairly nourished. Over both shoulders, especially the right, and under the collarbone and in front of the chest there was a bluish discoloration, which I have watched and have seen on two occasions since.

    There was a clear-cut incision on the neck. It was six inches in length and commenced two and a half inches in a straight line below the angle of the jaw, one half inch in over an undivided muscle, and then becoming deeper, dividing the sheath. The cut was very clean and deviated a little downwards. The arteries and other vessels contained in the sheath were all cut through.

    The cut through the tissues on the right side was more superficial, and tailed off to about two inches below the right angle of the jaw. The deep vessels on that side were uninjured. From this is was evident that the hemorrhage was caused through the partial severance of the left carotid artery.

    Decomposition had commenced in the skin. Dark brown spots were on the anterior surface of the left chin. There was a deformity in the bones of the right leg, which was not straight, but bowed forwards. There was no recent external injury save to the neck.

    The body being washed more thoroughly I could see some healing sores. The lobe of the left ear was torn as if from the removal or wearing through of an earring, but it was thoroughly healed. On removing the scalp there was no sign of extravasation of blood.

    The heart was small, the left ventricle firmly contracted, and the right slightly so. There was no clot in the pulmonary artery, but the right ventricle was full of dark clot. The left was firmly contracted as to be absolutely empty.

    The stomach was large and the mucous membrane only congested. It contained partly digested food, apparently consisting of cheese, potato, and farinaceous powder. All the teeth on the lower left jaw were absent."

    Casebook: http://www.casebook.org/victims/stride.html
    Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Stride
    Akoya likes this.
  6. Lily

    Lily Bronze Member

    The Canonical Five

    4: Catherine Eddowes


    Catherine Eddowes, aged 46, was murdered in the early hours of September 30th, about an hour after Liz Stride.

    Catherine had lived with two common-law husbands, the first of whom, Thomas Conway, fathered her children. She left Conway in 1880, after which Conway changed his name and hid the location of their sons, in order to avoid her. Their daughter Annie remained with Catherine, but Annie would marry soon after and with her husband move around London frequently, it's said, to avoid her mother's scrounging.

    In 1881, Catherine commenced living with John Kelly at Cooney's common lodging-house at 55 Flower and Dean Street, Spitalfields.

    While living there, she took to 'casual' prostitution to pay the rent. She was an intelligent, 'scholarly' woman, of 'jolly' nature, who had a fine voice and liked to sing. It was noted by several people close to her that Catherine was of generally sober habits but now and then "liked a drink". The deputy at her lodging-house said she was often in for the night by 10pm, and along with several others stated that Catherine was not known to "walk the streets".

    Certainly, there's every indication that Catherine Eddowes was not allergic to honest work. From Casebook:

    Every year, during the season, Kelly and Eddowes went hop picking. In 1888 they went to Hunton near Maidstone in Kent. "We didn't get along too well and started to hoof it home," Kelly says, "We came along in company with another man and woman who had worked in the same fields, but who parted from us to go to Cheltenham when we turned off towards London. The woman, more than likely Emily Birrell, said to Kate, 'I've got a pawn ticket for a flannel shirt. I wish you'd take it since you're going up to town. It is only for 2d, and it may fit your old man.' Kate took it and we trudged along... We did not have money enough to keep us going till we got to town, but we did get there, and came straight to this house (55 Flower and Dean Street). Luck was dead against us... we were both done up for cash."

    They reached London on Friday, September 28. John managed to earn 6d. Kate took 2d and told Kelly to take the 4d and get a bed at Cooney's. She said she would get a bed at the casual ward in Shoe Lane.


    Both the couple's extreme poverty and Catherine's capacity for binge-drinking can be observed on her last day alive, By this stage, London was in absolute uproar over the murders, and it pays to keep in mind that the streets were heavily policed.


    At 8:00 AM on September 29 she returns to Cooney's Lodging House and sees Kelly. She has been turned out of the Casual Ward for some unspecified trouble. Kelly decided to pawn a pair of boots he had. He does this with a pawnbroker named Jones in Church Street. It was Kate who took them into the shop and pledged them under the name of Jane Kelly. She receives 2/6 for the boots and she and Kelly take the money and buy some food, tea and sugar. Between 10 and 11 AM they were seen by Frederick Wilkinson eating breakfast in the lodging house kitchen.

    By afternoon they were again without money. Eddowes says she is going to see if she can get some money from her daughter in Bermondsey. She parts with Kelly in Houndsditch at 2:00 PM, promising to be back no later than 4:00 PM. "I never knew if she went to her daughter's at all," Kelly says at the inquest. "I only wish she had, for we had lived together for some time and never had a quarrel." Kate could not have seen her daughter who had moved since the last time Kate saw her.

    8:00 PM: City PC Louis Robinson comes across Eddowes surrounded by a crowd outside 29 Aldgate High Street. She is very drunk and laying in a heap on the pavement. Robinson asks those in the crowd if anyone knew her, no one replied. He pulled her up to her feet and leaned her against the building's shutters but she slipped sideways. With the aid of City PC 959 George Simmons they brought her to Bishopsgate Police Station.Louis Robinson City Police Constable 931 said at Kate's inquest 'On the 29th at 8.30 I was on duty in Aldgate Hight Street, I saw a crowd of persons outside No. 29 - I saw there a woman whom I have since recognised as the Deceased lying on the footway drunk. I asked if there was one that knew her or knew where she lived but I got no answer.'

    8:45 PM: Bishopsgate Police Station Sergeant James Byfield notes Eddowes arrival at the station. Supported by PCs Robinson and Simmons, Eddowes was asked her name and she replied "Nothing." At 8:50 PM PC Robinson looked in on her in her cell. She was asleep and smelled of drink. At 9:45 PM The Gaoler, City PC 968 George Hutt, took charge of the prisoners. He visited the cell every half hour during the night upon the directive of Sergeant Byfield.

    12:15 AM: Kate is heard singing softly to herself in the cell. 12:30 AM: She calls out to ask when she will be released. "When you are capable of taking care of yourself." Hutt replies. "I can do that now." Kate informs him.

    12:55 AM: Sergeant Byfield instructs PC Hutt to see if any prisoners were fit to be released. Kate was found to be sober. She gives her name as Mary Ann Kelly, and her address as 6 Fashion Street. Kate is released.

    She leaves the station at 1:00 AM.
    "What time is it?" she asks Hutt.
    "Too late for you to get anything to drink." he replies.
    "I shall get a damn fine hiding when I get home." She tells him.
    Hutt replies, " And serve you right, you had no right to get drunk."
    Hutt pushes open the swinging door of that station.
    "This way missus," he says, "please pull it to."
    "All right'" Kate replies, "Goodnight, old cock."

    She turned left out the doorway which took her in the opposite direction of what would have been the fastest way back to Flower and Dean Street. She appears to be heading back toward Aldgate High Street where she had become drunk. On going down Houndsditch she would have passed the entrance to Duke Street, at the end of which was Church Passage which led into Mitre Square.

    It is estimated that it would have taken less than ten minutes to reach Mitre Square. This leaves a thirty minute gap from the time she leaves the police station to the time she is seen outside of Mitre Square.

    (from Wiki):

    She was last seen alive at 1.35 a.m. by three witnesses, Joseph Lawende, Joseph Hyam Levy and Harry Harris, who had just left a club on Duke Street. She was standing talking with a man at the entrance to Church Passage, which led south-west from Duke Street to Mitre Square along the south wall of the Great Synagogue of London. Only Lawende could furnish a description of the man, whom he described as a fair-moustached man wearing a navy jacket, peaked cloth cap, and red scarf.[13] Chief Inspector Donald Swanson intimated in his report that Lawende's identification of the woman as Eddowes was doubtful. He wrote that Lawende had said that some clothing of the deceased's that he was shown resembled that of the woman he saw[14]—"which was black ... that was the extent of his identity [sic]".[15

    The murder:

    Eddowes was killed and mutilated in the square between 1.35 and 1.45 a.m.[20] Police surgeon Dr. Frederick Gordon Brown, who arrived after 2:00 a.m., said of the scene:

    The body was on its back, the head turned to left shoulder. The arms by the side of the body as if they had fallen there. Both palms upwards, the fingers slightly bent. A thimble was lying off the finger on the right side. The clothes drawn up above the abdomen. The thighs were naked. Left leg extended in a line with the body. The abdomen was exposed. Right leg bent at the thigh and knee.
    The bonnet was at the back of the head—great disfigurement of the face. The throat cut. Across below the throat was a neckerchief. ... The intestines were drawn out to a large extent and placed over the right shoulder—they were smeared over with some feculent matter. A piece of about two feet was quite detached from the body and placed between the body and the left arm, apparently by design. The lobe and auricle of the right ear were cut obliquely through. There was a quantity of clotted blood on the pavement on the left side of the neck round the shoulder and upper part of the arm, and fluid blood-coloured serum which had flowed under the neck to the right shoulder, the pavement sloping in that direction.
    Body was quite warm. No death stiffening had taken place. She must have been dead most likely within the half hour. We looked for superficial bruises and saw none. No blood on the skin of the abdomen or secretion of any kind on the thighs. No spurting of blood on the bricks or pavement around. No marks of blood below the middle of the body. Several buttons were found in the clotted blood after the body was removed. There was no blood on the front of the clothes. There were no traces of recent connection.[21]

    Brown conducted a post-mortem that afternoon, noting:

    After washing the left hand carefully, a bruise the size of a sixpence, recent and red, was discovered on the back of the left hand between the thumb and first finger. A few small bruises on right shin of older date. The hands and arms were bronzed. No bruises on the scalp, the back of the body, or the elbows. ... The cause of death was haemorrhage from the left common carotid artery. The death was immediate and the mutilations were inflicted after death ... There would not be much blood on the murderer. The cut was made by someone on the right side of the body, kneeling below the middle of the body. ... The peritoneal lining was cut through on the left side and the left kidney carefully taken out and removed. ... I believe the perpetrator of the act must have had considerable knowledge of the position of the organs in the abdominal cavity and the way of removing them. The parts removed would be of no use for any professional purpose. It required a great deal of knowledge to have removed the kidney and to know where it was placed. Such a knowledge might be possessed by one in the habit of cutting up animals. I think the perpetrator of this act had sufficient time ... It would take at least five minutes. ... I believe it was the act of one person.[22]

    Police physician Thomas Bond, disagreed with Brown's assessment of the killer's skill level. Bond's report to police stated: "In each case the mutilation was inflicted by a person who had no scientific nor anatomical knowledge. In my opinion he does not even possess the technical knowledge of a butcher or horse slaughterer or any person accustomed to cut up dead animals."[23] Local surgeon Dr George William Sequeira, who was the first doctor at the scene, and City medical officer William Sedgwick Saunders, who was also present at the autopsy, also thought that the killer lacked anatomical skill and did not seek particular organs.[24] In addition to the abdominal wounds, the murderer had cut Eddowes's face: across the bridge of the nose, on both cheeks, and through the eyelids of both eyes. The tip of her nose and part of one ear had been cut off. The Royal London Hospital on Whitechapel Road preserves some crime scene drawings and plans of the Mitre Square murder by the City Surveyor Frederick Foster;[25] they were first brought to public attention in 1966 by Francis Camps, Professor of Forensic Medicine at London University.[26] Based on his analysis of the surviving documents, Camps concluded that "the cuts shown on the body could not have been done by an expert."[27]

    Casebook: http://www.casebook.org/victims/eddowes.html

    Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_Eddowes
    Akoya likes this.
  7. GarAndMo49

    GarAndMo49 Not A Sheeple

    Great thread, Lily! I have a good book on Jack the Ripper; of course, I can't find it at the moment:doh:. I also have Patricia Cornwell's book; she makes a pretty good case for Walter Sickert as Jack, but I'm not entirely sold. I'll find my case book with all (or at least most of) the suspects & theories, and get back to you on what jumps out at me. My former psychiatrist recommended the book; I remember him saying he couldn't buy Cornwell's theory because "you don't pick a suspect and then try to make a case for him; you do a great job of researching the subject, and work by elimination." At least, that was the gist of it. Good point.
    OT, but he also recommended a book on H.H. Holmes called "The Devil In White City", by Erik Larson. H.H. Holmes was a serial killer in Chicago in 1893; a very good book if you're into older cases.
    Akoya likes this.
  8. Lily

    Lily Bronze Member

    The Canonical Five:

    5. Mary Jane (Marie Jeanette) Kelly


    Standing out from the other victims, who were all middle-aged, Mary was only 25 in 1888. She was born in Ireland and raised in Wales where, after her young husband's death, she turned to prostitution to make ends meet. Mary moved to London in 1884. Some reports have her employed as a char-woman, others state that she worked for a French woman in a high-class brothel and had recently traveled to Paris with a man she didn't much like. Perhaps both stories are true.

    Mary, by all accounts a very attractive and buxom young woman, was said to have a charming character unless she was drunk, on which she'd turn nasty and at times quite abusive.

    After living with several men in succession, Mary was in 1887 staying at 'Cooley's Lodging House' in Thrawl Street, Spitalfields, where she met a man named Joseph Barnett in a pub, and agreed to move in with him the following day. on February or March, after moving due to eviction over unpaid rent and from place to place, the couple settle in a small room at 13 Miller's Court, running off Dorset St, Spitalfields. By August, Joseph had lost his job and Mary took once more to prostitution to pay the rent. This didn't sit well with Joseph, nor was he happy when she started inviting fellow prostitutes to stay in their room. On October 30, 1888, he left her and went to live at another boarding house. But he still loved Mary, and came to visit her almost every day.

    "She would never have gone wrong again," he tells a newspaper, "and I shouldn't have left her if it had not been for the prostitutes stopping at the house. She only let them (stay there) because she was good hearted and did not like to refuse them shelter on cold bitter nights." He adds, "We lived comfortably until Marie allowed a prostitute named Julia to sleep in the same room; I objected: and as Mrs. Harvey afterwards came and stayed there, I left and took lodgings elsewhere."

    Mary's last hours, from Wiki:

    Barnett visited Kelly for the last time between 7:00 and 8:00 p.m. on 8 November. He found her in the company of Maria Harvey, a friend of hers, and Harvey and Barnett left at about the same time.[16] Barnett returned to his lodging house, where he played cards with other residents until falling asleep at about 12:30.[17]

    Fellow Miller's Court resident and prostitute, Mary Ann Cox, who described herself as " a widow and unfortunate",[18] reported seeing Kelly returning home drunk in the company of a stout ginger-haired man wearing a bowler hat and carrying a can of beer at about 11:45 p.m. Cox and Kelly wished each other goodnight. Kelly went into her room with the man and then started singing the song "A Violet I Plucked from Mother's Grave When a Boy." She was still singing when Cox went out at midnight, and when she returned an hour later at 1:00.[19] Elizabeth Prater had the room above Kelly's and when she went to bed at 1:30, the singing had stopped.[20]

    Labourer George Hutchinson, who knew Kelly, reported that she met him at about 2:00 a.m. and asked him for a loan of sixpence. He claimed to be broke and that as Kelly went on her way she was approached by a man of "Jewish appearance". Hutchinson later gave the police an extremely detailed description of the man right down to the colour of his eyelashes despite it being the middle of a dark winter night.[21] He reported that he overheard them talking in the street opposite the court where Kelly was living; Kelly complained of losing her handkerchief, and the man gave her a red one of his own. Hutchinson claimed that Kelly and the man headed for her room, that he followed them, and that he saw neither one of them again, laying off his watch at about 2:45.[22] Hutchinson's statement appears to be partly corroborated by laundress Sarah Lewis, who reported seeing a man watching the entrance to Miller's Court as she passed into it at about 2:30 to spend the night with some friends, the Keylers.[23] Hutchinson claimed that he was suspicious of the man because although Kelly seemed to know him, his opulent appearance made him seem very unusual in that neighbourhood, but only reported this to the police after the inquest on Kelly had been hastily concluded.[24] Abberline, the detective in charge of the investigation, thought Hutchinson's information was important and sent him out with officers to see if he could see the man again.[25] Hutchinson's name does not appear again in the existing police records, and so it is not possible to say with certainty whether his evidence was ultimately dismissed, disproven, or corroborated.


    From Casebook:
    3:00 AM: Mrs. Cox returns home yet again. It is raining hard. There is no sound or light coming from Kelly's room. Cox does not go back out but does not go to sleep. Throughout the night she occasionally hears men going in and out of the court. She told the inquest "I heard someone go out at a quarter to six. I do not know what house he went out of (as) I heard no door shut."

    4:00 AM: Elizabeth Prater is awakened by her pet kitten "Diddles" walking on her neck. She hears a faint cry of "Oh, murder!" but, as the cry of murder is common in the district, she pays no attention to it. Sarah Lewis, who is staying with friends in Miller's Court, also hears the cry.

    8:30 AM: Caroline Maxwell, a witness at the inquest and acquaintance of Kelly's, claims to have seen the deceased at around 8:30 AM, several hours after the time given by Phillips as time of death. She described her clothing and appearance in depth, and adamantly stated that she was not mistaken about the date, although she admitted she did not know Kelly very well.

    10:00 AM: Maurice Lewis, a tailor who resided in Dorset Street, told newspapers he had seen Kelly and Barnett in the Horn of Plenty public house on the night of the murder, but more importantly, that he saw her about 10:00 AM the next day. Like Maxwell, this time is several hours from the time of death, and because of this discrepancy, he was not called to the inquest and virtually ignored by police.

    10:45 AM: John McCarthy, owner of "McCarthy's Rents," as Miller's Court was known, sends Thomas Bowyer to collect past due rent money from Mary Kelly. After Bowyer receives no response from knocking (and because the door was locked) he pushes aside the curtain and peers inside, seeing the body. He informs McCarthy, who, after seeing the mutilated remains of Kelly for himself, ran to Commercial Street Police Station, where he spoke with Inspector Walter Beck, who returned to the Court with McCarthy.

    Several hours later, after waiting fruitlessly for the arrival of the bloodhounds "Barnaby" and "Burgho," McCarthy smashes in the door with an axe handle under orders from Superintendent Thomas Arnold.

    When police enter the room they find Mary Jane Kelly's clothes neatly folded on a chair and she is wearing a chemise. Her boots are in front of the fireplace.

    The murder:

    Hands-down the worst murder attributed to the Ripper. Read on, but be warned, it gets ugly! (from Casebook):

    Dr. Thomas Bond, a distinguished police surgeon from A-Division, was called in on the Mary Kelly murder. His report is as follows:

    "The body was lying naked in the middle of the bed, the shoulders flat but the axis of the body inclined to the left side of the bed. The head was turned on the left cheek. The left arm was close to the body with the forearm flexed at a right angle and lying across the abdomen.

    The right arm was slightly abducted from the body and rested on the mattress. The elbow was bent, the forearm supine with the fingers clenched. The legs were wide apart, the left thigh at right angles to the trunk and the right forming an obtuse angle with the pubes.

    The whole of the surface of the abdomen and thighs was removed and the abdominal cavity emptied of its viscera. The breasts were cut off, the arms mutilated by several jagged wounds and the face hacked beyond recognition of the features. The tissues of the neck were severed all round down to the bone.

    The viscera were found in various parts viz: the uterus and kidneys with one breast under the head, the other breast by the right foot, the liver between the feet, the intestines by the right side and the spleen by the left side of the body. The flaps removed from the abdomen and thighs were on a table.

    The bed clothing at the right corner was saturated with blood, and on the floor beneath was a pool of blood covering about two feet square. The wall by the right side of the bed and in a line with the neck was marked by blood which had struck it in a number of separate splashes.

    The face was gashed in all directions, the nose, cheeks, eyebrows, and ears being partly removed. The lips were blanched and cut by several incisions running obliquely down to the chin. There were also numerous cuts extending irregularly across all the features.

    The neck was cut through the skin and other tissues right down to the vertebrae, the fifth and sixth being deeply notched. The skin cuts in the front of the neck showed distinct ecchymosis. The air passage was cut at the lower part of the larynx through the cricoid cartilage.

    Both breasts were more or less removed by circular incisions, the muscle down to the ribs being attached to the breasts. The intercostals between the fourth, fifth, and sixth ribs were cut through and the contents of the thorax visible through the openings.

    The skin and tissues of the abdomen from the costal arch to the pubes were removed in three large flaps. The right thigh was denuded in front to the bone, the flap of skin, including the external organs of generation, and part of the right buttock. The left thigh was stripped of skin fascia, and muscles as far as the knee.

    The left calf showed a long gash through skin and tissues to the deep muscles and reaching from the knee to five inches above the ankle. Both arms and forearms had extensive jagged wounds.

    The right thumb showed a small superficial incision about one inch long, with extravasation of blood in the skin, and there were several abrasions on the back of the hand moreover showing the same condition.

    On opening the thorax it was found that the right lung was minimally adherent by old firm adhesions. The lower part of the lung was broken and torn away. The left lung was intact. It was adherent at the apex and there were a few adhesions over the side. In the substances of the lung there were several nodules of consolidation.

    The pericardium was open below and the heart absent. In the abdominal cavity there was some partly digested food of fish and potatoes, and similar food was found in the remains of the stomach attached to the intestines."

    Dr. George Bagster Phillips was also present at the scene, and gave the following testimony at the inquest:

    "The mutilated remains of a female were lying two-thirds over towards the edge of the bedstead nearest the door. She had only her chemise on, or some underlinen garment. I am sure that the body had been removed subsequent to the injury which caused her death from that side of the bedstead that was nearest the wooden partition, because of the large quantity of blood under the bedstead and the saturated condition of the sheet and the palliasse at the corner nearest the partition.

    The blood was produced by the severance of the carotid artery, which was the cause of death. The injury was inflicted while the deceased was lying at the right side of the bedstead."

    Casebook: http://www.casebook.org/victims/mary_jane_kelly.html

    Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Jane_Kelly
    Akoya likes this.
  9. Lily

    Lily Bronze Member

    Cheers, G&M! I've got quite a few books on the Ripper and am a member at Casebook, the hardcore Ripper-centric forum, lots of great reading (and interminable arguments..) there. I've read Patty Cornwell's book - and while I tend to agree with her about Sickert looking like a right bastard and painting some very creepy paintings, I'm not convinced he was a killer, either (and agree with your former shrink, about elimination, etc). All the same, I have always felt something was not right with that man, so I'm not too harsh with Patricia, as some people are.

    Ooh the H.H. Holmes case... wasn't he nasty? I have not read that book you mentioned, but I'll try to find a copy. Thanks!
    Akoya and GarAndMo49 like this.
  10. Lily

    Lily Bronze Member

    Coincidences in the Ripper Case

    Whether these are really just coincidences or somehow important to the case, we'll probably never know. But they're worth noting, anyhow:

    Flower and Dean Street:

    • At the time of her death Mary Ann Nichols was living at 56 Flower & Dean St
    • At the time of her death Catherine Eddowes was living at 55 Flower & Dean St
    • At the time of her death Elizabeth Stride was living at 32 Flower & Dean St
    Dorset Street:

    • At the time of her death Annie Chapman was living at 35 Dorset St, she had also lived previously at 30 Dorset St
    • At the time of her death Mary Jane Kelly was living at 26 Dorset St
    • Elizabeth Stride had lived at 33 Dorset St up until around 1886
    • Catherine Eddowes had apparently dossed down at 26 Dorset Street, the room right behind Mary Jane Kelly’s room. In addition Eddowes had pawned the boots of her partner, John Kelly (who shared the same name as Mary Jane Kelly’s father), and gave her name as “Jane Kelly” of 6 Dorset Street. On the night of her murder she had been arrested and gave her name as “Mary Ann Kelly” of 6 Flower Street
    Thrawl Street:
    • Shortly before her murder, between the 2nd & 24th August, Mary Ann Nichols had lived at 18 Thrawl St
    • Up until around 1887 Mary Jane Kelly had lived at Cooley’s lodging house (probably actually Cooney’s) at no. 16 & 17 Thrawl St

    New Items

    Several of the victims had, despite their abject poverty and inability to keep even a few pence for a bed to sleep in, brand new items on them at time of death.

    - Polly Nichols had on her new "jolly bonnet", which she boasted would help her make her doss money the night of her murder.
    - Annie Chapman had on three "recently acquired" brass rings, which were inexplicably missing after the murder.
    - Liz Stride had a "large" piece of green velvet before she went out for the last time, and a flower corsage on at time of death, which she did not have earlier.
    - Catherine Eddowes had on her an item that seems imo kind of at odds with her circumstances, "1 red leather cigarette case with white metal fittings". Yet her hubby had to sell his boots for a few pennies?
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2015
    Akoya and GarAndMo49 like this.
  11. Lily

    Lily Bronze Member

    Catherine Eddowes' possessions

    I forgot to include in the post on her, the things found in Catherine's possession at time of death. Catherine, more than any of the other victims killed in the streets, seems to have carried absolutely every single thing she owned on her person. It makes sense, for people living in unsecured public rooming houses to not want to leave their things behind, to get pilfered, I guess:

    • Black straw bonnet trimmed in green and black velvet with black beads. Black strings, worn tied to the head.
    • Black cloth jacket trimmed around the collar and cuffs with imitation fur and around the pockets in black silk braid and fur. Large metal buttons.
    • Dark green chintz skirt, 3 flounces, brown button on waistband. The skirt is patterned with Michaelmas daisies and golden lilies.
    • Man's white vest, matching buttons down front.
    • Brown linsey bodice, black velvet collar with brown buttons down front
    • Grey stuff petticoat with white waistband
    • Very old green alpaca skirt (worn as undergarment)
    • Very old ragged blue skirt with red flounces, light twill lining (worn as undergarment)
    • White calico chemise
    • No drawers or stays
    • Pair of men's lace up boots, mohair laces. Right boot repaired with red thread
    • 1 piece of red gauze silk worn as a neckerchief
    • 1 large white pocket handkerchief
    • 1 large white cotton handkerchief with red and white bird's eye border
    • 2 unbleached calico pockets, tape strings
    • 1 blue stripe bed ticking pocket
    • Brown ribbed knee stockings, darned at the feet with white cotton

    • 2 small blue bags made of bed ticking
    • 2 short black clay pipes
    • 1 tin box containing tea
    • 1 tin box containing sugar
    • 1 tin matchbox, empty
    • 12 pieces white rag, some slightly bloodstained
    • 1 piece coarse linen, white
    • 1 piece of blue and white shirting, 3 cornered
    • 1 piece red flannel with pins and needles
    • 6 pieces soap
    • 1 small tooth comb
    • 1 white handle table knife
    • 1 metal teaspoon
    • 1 red leather cigarette case with white metal fittings
    • 1 ball hemp
    • 1 piece of old white apron with repair
    • Several buttons and a thimble
    • Mustard tin containing two pawn tickets, One in the name of Emily Birrell, 52 White's Row, dated August 31, 9d for a man's flannel shirt. The other is in the name of Jane Kelly of 6 Dorset Street and dated September 28, 2S for a pair of men's boots. Both addresses are false.
    • Printed handbill and according to a press report- a printed card for 'Frank Carter,305,Bethnal Green Road
    • Portion of a pair of spectacles
    • 1 red mitten
    Akoya and GarAndMo49 like this.
  12. GarAndMo49

    GarAndMo49 Not A Sheeple

    Hey Lily,
    I've spent time at the Casebook site, but not recently. Could you provide a link (if it's not against forum rules)? Yeah, Sickert wasn't exactly a sweet guy, was he? I don't discount Patricia's work; I read all her books, and I know she devoted a lot of time & energy to her research.
    I've got to find my damn book; I read so much I have piles of books in every room, mostly stacked up by genre, so it won't be that tough. Do you have a "favorite" suspect?
    Akoya and Lily like this.
  13. Lily

    Lily Bronze Member

    I did put a link to Casebook in all the victim links upthread, you just need to click around a bit to find everything, there's a lot there. I don't think there ought to be an issue with links to it, as it's a specialty site, and a fantastic resource for anyone interested in either the case or the history of the era. Be warned, I get lost in there for days at a time, hehe.

    Now, as for a favourite suspect... to be honest, I try not to have one, not at present anyway. But I do have a kind of a theory/profile I won't mind typing out when I get the time. :) I hope others do the same, there's bound to be a dozen different ones, which always makes discussion interesting!
    Akoya, Cousin Dupree and GarAndMo49 like this.
  14. Cousin Dupree

    Cousin Dupree Platinum Member

    This guy thinks it's Charles Allen Lechmere: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...elped-evade-justice-claims-criminologist.html

    Jack the Ripper was a meat cart driver in Whitechapel, who legitimately blood-spattered appearance helped him evade justice, a criminologist has claimed.

    Dr Gareth Norris from Aberystwyth University believes 'carman' Charles Allen Lechmere, whose early route to work coincided with locations of Ripper killings, should be considered a suspect.

    Lechmere was found leaning over victim Mary Ann 'Polly' Nichols' body on Buck's Row in Whitechapel on August 31, 1888 and told police he had only been there a few minutes.

    But research has revealed that he lied to police about his name, calling himself Cross, and it was likely that he was with her body for about nine minutes....

    There was a show on, I can't remember the channel, that my recorder picked up the very end of. All I got was this guys name. I hope they run it again so I can see it.
    Akoya and GarAndMo49 like this.
  15. Cousin Dupree

    Cousin Dupree Platinum Member

    It was on Destination America channel and it's On Demand. I'm watching it now. :happydance:
  16. ShortWave

    ShortWave Fan of Troublemaker

    I think I saw that show...it's a show called "The Missing Evidence" on Smithsonian Channel.
    I thought about a year or so ago DNA was found on one of the victims' shawl and matched it to a male? I could be confused though.
    Hubs may have recorded it.
  17. ShortWave

    ShortWave Fan of Troublemaker

    Ahh, I'll check that one out Cuz D, thx.
    Akoya, Takeitfromme and Cousin Dupree like this.
  18. Lily

    Lily Bronze Member

    The shawl fiasco... As it turns out, one of the technicians in the lab put a decimal point in the wrong place or something equally inane, which made the DNA look far more compelling than it actually is.

    Upshot was, the shawl could have been worn by any of about 47 million trillion people. Please note, this number is not exact. ;)
  19. Cousin Dupree

    Cousin Dupree Platinum Member

    Well that does narrow it down still. :thinking:
    Akoya, ShortWave, Lily and 1 other person like this.
  20. Cousin Dupree

    Cousin Dupree Platinum Member

    I'll post some notes along the way while I'm watching this.

    In 1888 they believed in removing bodies from the crime scene as quickly as possible because they didn't want crowds forming around. This destroyed a lot of evidence.

    The first man arrested for the murder of one victim was a Jewish man who was able to prove he was nowhere near the crime scene when it occurred. This incited a lot of antisemitism in the area despite the proof of his innocence.

Share This Page