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JON BENET RAMSEY: What's your theory on what happened to her?

Discussion in 'Cold Cases' started by Vicky, Jan 8, 2016.

  1. Vicky

    Vicky Well-Known Member

    Who was responsible for her murder?
     
  2. Lily

    Lily Bronze Member

    I am on the fence!!!!!! Always have been! Still am!

    Thus, I am open to considering ALL theories that aren't plain crazy. I can respect that there *are* two sides (or hey, even more than two!).

    Because I do not consider this solved. That's one thing I'll make a stand on, opinion-wise.
     
  3. Kimster

    Kimster Director Staff Member

    Her case must be the most well-known unsolved case ever! I don't know what happened for sure. The case was botched so badly from the get-go. I lean toward her brother or another family member. An intruder doesn't seem logical.

    Will we ever know the truth?
     
  4. President Pope Dewey

    President Pope Dewey Sanity is a state of mind

    Unless the intruder was very well acquainted with the family, a maid, a maid's significant other, a close friend who dropped in practically daily on a regular basis and would know a lot of inside information, maybe a confidant of one of the adult Ramseys.
     
  5. Vicky

    Vicky Well-Known Member

    I have always been of the persuasion that BR was responsible particularly if you look at the transcript of his visit with a psychologist there's red flags right the way through it. Their claims that he was asleep the whole time doesn't ring true when you listen to the 911 call and can hear him in the background.
     
  6. Kimster

    Kimster Director Staff Member

    I try to use logic with any evidence leaked to the public. As I put each person or possible person in the box, logic doesn't make sense with any of them except for BR. However, as much as the possibility is pretty slim, there might be some evidence known that hasn't been leaked.. I highly doubt it after all these years though.
     
  7. MissyMoo

    MissyMoo Bronze Member

    Wow seeing JonBenets name is a blast from the past for sure.
    It was all over the news here.
    Surely it had to be someone who had been in that house before, remember how massive it was?
    With a real complicated floor plan?
    A random would have struggled to find way around even if it wasn't night time.
     
  8. Lily

    Lily Bronze Member

    I think both kids were under a lot of pressure to be shiny and perfect at all times (in public at least) but also neglected in important ways, in private .. (remembering that Patsy was dealing with cancer puts another angle on that) and I think that is a very plausible reason for many of their behavioural problems that have come to light. So I've never leapt to the solid conclusion that bed wetting, etc = sex abuse. Lots of kids in 'turmoil' homes have potty issues and act out, whatever.

    On the other hand, I can see good motivation for Burke to be jealous of his doted-on sister. So I can see a case for him harming her out of spite, as well. Kids that young (as he was at the time) have little concept of consequences when they're in a rage, or just seeking ways to lash out at what they see as injustice to themselves. Yup, I can see that.

    Here's a question that's bothered me a lot, just a small detail --- if there's were NO footprints in the snow in the yard (if there was actually snow in the yard) as is very often said (as proof of no intruder) --- why did the people looking for JBR leave none? Or did NObody think to look outside and around the yard, at all? Because if they did - what happened to their footprints? Or was the ground actually not covered in pristine snow, as has often been said?

    There's been so much BS put about,k nothing is clear, and nothing much can be trusted, as people tend to spin even the plainest facts to suit their pet theory.

    I think it's possible, in that huge house, to which a pile of people had free access, as well as key access, that JBR was killed by someone other than her parents or her brother.

    I also think it's possible someone in her immediate family killed her. I find it VERY hard to visualise a parent staging a child's death as a sexual crime, however it's possible someone who was desperate to save their only remaining child might do so. But even then, it was OTT even for that scenario. Not OTT for a sadist, who would have enjoyed JBR being found that way. The note is quite sadistic, also. I've never thought either parent was stupid enough to put that note there, and expect the cops to believe it was a genuine kidnap note. I just cannot see either or both of them being THAT dumb, while at the same time masterfully manipulating a crime scene involving their tiny daughter to resemble a sex crime. It all doesn't sit right with me, without some proof that *somebody* living in that house was an absolute sadist. Ad that behaviour is REALLY hard to hide, in the long term, from family and friends (I know this, via studying sexual sadists and their family dynamics).

    But because a thing isn't seen, doesn't mean it can't exist.

    I always end up arguing with myself over this case, LOL.
     
  9. Lily

    Lily Bronze Member

    But someone who'd been through the house before might (which thousands had, only recently..) ? And with all that space to hide in, could have actually been in the home, when the family returned for the night..
     
  10. President Pope Dewey

    President Pope Dewey Sanity is a state of mind

    There was snow on the ground, but only in areas that didn't get much if any sunlight. There was snow AND a footprint inside the basement window well.
     
    Cousin Dupree, MissyMoo and Lily like this.
  11. Lily

    Lily Bronze Member

    I once saw a very good debunking of the entry-through-window theory, which showed pics of the sills and all the undisturbed dirt and rain spots on them (which I think would have been disturbed - even allowing for the fact that dirt and dust can set pretty hard under some conditions, I can't see it being that little - by an adult body squishing through the window). It was (iirc) a very biased site, but their argument did actually make perfect, plain sense. So I've thought since then, that if an intruder (familiar with family or not) gained access, it was not through that window, nor did they leave by it.

    edit --- found it! http://gemart.8m.com/ramsey/window/
     
  12. President Pope Dewey

    President Pope Dewey Sanity is a state of mind

    I remember a case where not the perp, but someone concerned about the victim entered her home via a small window, which had a table in front of it, and stuff on the table and nothing was disturbed. LE didn't believe the friend so they asked him to do it again. Sure enough slick as snot he went through that window not touching the table, lamps or anything else on the table. LE couldn't believe their eyes.
     
  13. MissyMoo

    MissyMoo Bronze Member

    Yep you might be right Lily, its creepy possible.
    Poor little kid, she would have been terrified.

    Even from 20 years ago I can still remember the photos of her on the news in the beauty shows, she was a little doll herself.

    We always had our kids bedrooms near our bedroom when they were little, i was so paranoid back then.
    I had the memory of Melbournes Mr Cruel still in my mind i think. He laid in wait for the girls as well didnt he?
    I even had one of those new age type mobiles placed up on their bedroom windows, the shrilly bell type that would loudly start if it moved just in case someone tried to get in or out of their window. Which now i know seems kind of ridiculous as i would have probably slept through any noise anyway but was so worried that there could be someone with an evil plan for one of our kids.
     
    Cousin Dupree and Lily like this.
  14. Lily

    Lily Bronze Member


    LOL, MM.. your "paranoia" is pretty close to my own! I recall how little I slept, when we moved to a house where my dd's bedroom was further from my own... hardly a wink and I had the noisy mobiles, too!!!! Omg, we're as crazy... uh... vigilant.. as each other! Very cool. =P

    Omg, Mr Cruel...yes, a couple of his victims were snatched while the family slept. And just to show how devious a pedo can be:

    He plans his crimes - for example, in one case he abducted a girl and told her he would release her in exactly 50 hours, and indeed he did. He bathed his victims carefully, with one victim describing the act as "like a mother washing a baby", and wiped benchtops etc. for fingerprints. Shortly before releasing one victim, he thoroughly cleaned the bathroom and then laid down a sheet on the lino-covered floor to avoid leaving footprints. In one case, he took a second set of clothes from the girl's home to dress her before she was freed. In another, he dumped the girl in garbage bags so police could not test her original clothes. The modus operandi is so similar in these cases that police believe it is the same perpetrator.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Cruel
     
    Cousin Dupree and MissyMoo like this.
  15. Lily

    Lily Bronze Member

    Just so you know, I am stealing "slick as snot" for my own use. What a great descriptor!

    Very interesting.. one argument I had (with myself, ofc) re the water spots, is that condensation can cause those too.. or drippy melting snow from the over head grate. So I'm not sold on those as proof, 100%, that no-one entered that window. I do think there'd likely have been a pile more leaf debris on the inside, though, if someone slithered in by it. IMO.. possible.. but not IMpossible that access might have been gained some other way. (or there was no intruder, also very possible).
     
  16. President Pope Dewey

    President Pope Dewey Sanity is a state of mind

    I knew I should have applied for a copyright. :p
     
  17. MissyMoo

    MissyMoo Bronze Member

    Bahaha "slick as snot" is grouse. Im going to tell the kids that one and wait for it to spread.
    I love "on the lam" picked that up off here as well.
     
  18. MissyMoo

    MissyMoo Bronze Member

    BMFE then lol.
    But our house was like only about 18 squares (small as) that Ramsay house was huge.
    I am going to get on to google to see if i can find a picture of it.
     
    Cousin Dupree, DaisyChains and Lily like this.
  19. Lily

    Lily Bronze Member

    I'm a big fan of film noir, gritty 30's & 40's detective/gangster stuff -- I have been known to actually say "on the lam" and other anachronistic things in my day to day speech.. much to my dd's embarrassment.. and/or delight "SEE? I know you were like, 150 years old". Cheeky monkey (who clearly needs a math tutor..)

    Sorry for OT! Back to it.......another thing that puzzles me (if I discount the "sexual sadist stalker/intruder/pedo" theory entirely) is why anyone would think of, let alone choose to use, a garrote. It's highly unusual in murder cases, hardly something anyone not of a clear criminal disposition would think of, let alone settle on, as a murder/staging tool. Especially in a *child* murder -- it's far more common in adult murder cases. Less uncommon in sadistic pedo murders... And JBR had a blunt force injury as well.. I guess what I'm saying is, I find the idea of a parent even thinking of, let alone using the garotte as a cool solution to police suspicion, a bit hard to swallow. Whereas, that sort of instrument is a big fave with sadistic killers, including pedos.. it's a thrill/control thing.

    I certainly have an incredibly hard time imagining a child under 10, on his own, employing a garrote. An argument could be made, though, that the garotte was used to cover up/explain away some other marks that were not caused by the thin cord (going back to inside job theory a moment).
     
  20. MissyMoo

    MissyMoo Bronze Member

    [​IMG]

    This is from google, i hope its right house, sorry if incorrect - i never heard much about this case since the snippets of her murder that made the Aussie news and then again a few years later when a weird guy from overseas said he had done it, but then it ended up being a nutter false confession situation.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2016

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