JOSHUA "JJ" VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN, TAMMY DAYBELL, & CHARLES VALLOW: State of Idaho/Arizona vs. Lori & Chad Daybell GUILTY

Kimster · May 3, 2023

GrandmaBear said:
So can I ask how do you picture it. If he is holding her arms he can't be choking her or putting something over her head at the same time. Did he get something over her and then hold her by the arms. so she couldn't tear it off? I don't like to think about it but I can't quite see how it was gone about....? Were there two, Alex and Chad and one held her down...?

I think Alex may have snuck into the house. He turned his phone off for a short period of time. I think it was about an hour.

Kimster · May 3, 2023

Tresir said:
Yes and why didn't she scream and Garth hear it and the struggles. Maybe she was drugged? Though I haven't heard about toxicology.

It has been entered, and there were no drugs in her system other than an anti-depressant and something else but nothing like a medication that would make you hazy or anything.

Kimster · May 3, 2023

GrandmaBear said:
I'm not real sure of why the prosecution had a problem with this or why Archibald wanted it other than to show Lori's beliefs. It actually kind of damns her if they had went to the part of finding out it was okay to kill Joe (I know it didn't play that far)... I don't really see where it hurts the prosecution or helps the defense...

Nate said it’s because it allows Lori to tell the jury about her beliefs without the prosecution being able to question her.

GrandmaBear · May 3, 2023

RoundPeg said:
I honestly don't know. I think the conspiracy charges will stick. Do you think Melanie G is guilty of murder? You said she isn't innocent?

I don't know... There was absolutely NO reason for her and David to be up there that weekend and I guess one could put it down to Lori trying to fuzz up the picture of the death of JJ and have witnesses to what, claim her innocence? Remember Mel did not come forward immediately nor turn on the two of them...

She claims now and once she came forward to not have totally believed what they believed but really? She was a full part of it and castings, etc. She was present the weekend JJ died. So was David. I think his dream is a crock and is more likely the hearing of, participation in or knowledge of what was happening if not witnessing even... Every time she has told her story or done an interveiw with Nate, or on the stand, etc., no, she isn't telling all. Imo.

Her and David's sequestered testimony differed at Chad's preliminary...

They were right there IN this apartment and with Alex, with JJ, with Lori and so many things were ignored...? Where Tylee was... Where JJ was...

She was present for many things and/or knew of them. Charles. Etc. WAs Lori's probably closest confidante next to Chad... They were ALL part of at least the plans... And Mel P too! I don't have all the things right now but there are many reasons I think this. And there are things out there that also have others that see or know it based on things that don't come up routinely in the news or case...

The woman in Hawaii and another one or two at a casting bailed. The one in Hawaii when Lori tried to tell her she was one of the 144 when she was basically told it was time to leave her kids behind... Mel G has kids.... Anyone see her leave Lori or the group... Nope. Mel P. had them, anyone see that with her? Nope. They were on BOARD with these kid free plans... Divorces, life insurance, new marriage, etc. Mel KNEW Charles was dark and had died, etc., etc., etc. and then came to know next JJ was, Tylee was, etc... AND was there that weekend of JJ...?

At the very LEAST she knew of what was going on and what was really happening with these deaths. So did Mel P. And Mel P said to Lori after Charles that anything can happen and time to look into insurance for Lori's kids and herself... I'm sure herself was just added for anyone who would know of the convo... Point was to insure the kids... We already had Lori saying to Zulema Mel P's money would support them if she quit her job and moved to Rexburg...

This case is so overfull with things that I know with more time to focus on this I could dial into it better and explain but that's off the top of my head right now. MEL knew of every death and the timing. I am sure she also heard how unhappy Lori was with Alex's failure with shooting at Tammy. Of course she did. Then Tammy ends up dead as does Alex...

I could go on... But I don't buy it. She at minimum knew all and perhaps was involved and a witness and at most she was part of every bit of it. It's interesting too that Tylee didn't like Mel G. and I think that is very, very telling... She also seemed not to connect with JJ either for all the time she spent with Lori... OR care about either. There are also things that indicate Mel was first in all these thoughts, maybe not the zombie thing but who knows she knew Chad first but definitely as to the rest of all of it...

Where are Mel's kids... That's another thing, I don't think she was raising them was she...? Not a lot on it but why do I think their dad had them and not her... Both Lori and Mel were sinning as to sex before marriage in the eyes of their church and god they were both sooooo committed to and quoted as well as the scriptures... I know that doesn't go to her involved in the murder, I am just saying she is full of sh*t and a full on hypocrite. She COULD have come forward about these kids long before she did... And about Charles. And about all. She did it only when she was being looked at and to save her own arse.

GrandmaBear · May 3, 2023

Kimster said:
I think Alex may have snuck into the house. He turned his phone off for a short period of time. I think it was about an hour.

Yeah I've considered that too, he joined Chad in their bedroom after Tammy was asleep or somehow he incapacitated her or some such... But I'm not sure either... Did he then leave and Chad waits all night and pushes her body out of the bed next morn and calls for Garth... For a witness....? Or because he worried the thud was heard so he called him? If he was trying to move her or concoct something then why not have Alex help move her, etc... So I guess it was to have an immediate witness on his discovering his wife dead (which we know is false)...

I think there are things we will never know as to who, whether one or more, with the mechanics of the actual killing of each person... Unless one day long into the future one comes clean and even then we wouldn't necessarily be able to believe them...

RoundPeg · May 3, 2023

GrandmaBear said:
I don't know... There was absolutely NO reason for her and David to be up there that weekend and I guess one could put it down to Lori trying to fuzz up the picture of the death of JJ and have witnesses to what, claim her innocence? Remember Mel did not come forward immediately nor turn on the two of them...

She claims now and once she came forward to not have totally believed what they believed but really? She was a full part of it and castings, etc. She was present the weekend JJ died. So was David. I think his dream is a crock and is more likely the hearing of, participation in or knowledge of what was happening if not witnessing even... Every time she has told her story or done an interveiw with Nate, or on the stand, etc., no, she isn't telling all. Imo.

Her and David's sequestered testimony differed at Chad's preliminary...

They were right there IN this apartment and with Alex, with JJ, with Lori and so many things were ignored...? Where Tylee was... Where JJ was...

She was present for many things and/or knew of them. Charles. Etc. WAs Lori's probably closest confidante next to Chad... They were ALL part of at least the plans... And Mel P too! I don't have all the things right now but there are many reasons I think this. And there are things out there that also have others that see or know it based on things that don't come up routinely in the news or case...

The woman in Hawaii and another one or two at a casting bailed. The one in Hawaii when Lori tried to tell her she was one of the 144 when she was basically told it was time to leave her kids behind... Mel G has kids.... Anyone see her leave Lori or the group... Nope. Mel P. had them, anyone see that with her? Nope. They were on BOARD with these kid free plans... Divorces, life insurance, new marriage, etc. Mel KNEW Charles was dark and had died, etc., etc., etc. and then came to know next JJ was, Tylee was, etc... AND was there that weekend of JJ...?

At the very LEAST she knew of what was going on and what was really happening with these deaths. So did Mel P. And Mel P said to Lori after Charles that anything can happen and time to look into insurance for Lori's kids and herself... I'm sure herself was just added for anyone who would know of the convo... Point was to insure the kids... We already had Lori saying to Zulema Mel P's money would support them if she quit her job and moved to Rexburg...

This case is so overfull with things that I know with more time to focus on this I could dial into it better and explain but that's off the top of my head right now. MEL knew of every death and the timing. I am sure she also heard how unhappy Lori was with Alex's failure with shooting at Tammy. Of course she did. Then Tammy ends up dead as does Alex...

I could go on... But I don't buy it. She at minimum knew all and perhaps was involved and a witness and at most she was part of every bit of it. It's interesting too that Tylee didn't like Mel G. and I think that is very, very telling... She also seemed not to connect with JJ either for all the time she spent with Lori... OR care about either. There are also things that indicate Mel was first in all these thoughts, maybe not the zombie thing but who knows she knew Chad first but definitely as to the rest of all of it...

Where are Mel's kids... That's another thing, I don't think she was raising them was she...? Not a lot on it but why do I think their dad had them and not her... Both Lori and Mel were sinning as to sex before marriage in the eyes of their church and god they were both sooooo committed to and quoted as well as the scriptures... I know that doesn't go to her involved in the murder, I am just saying she is full of sh*t and a full on hypocrite. She COULD have come forward about these kids long before she did... And about Charles. And about all. She did it only when she was being looked at and to save her own arse.

Who besides Lori has dead children?

GrandmaBear · May 3, 2023

Kimster said:
It has been entered, and there were no drugs in her system other than an anti-depressant and something else but nothing like a medication that would make you hazy or anything.

Toxicology well after the time of death and on exhumation seems often untrustworthy to me. Did they take save fluids or parts of organs or did they take from her exhumed body...? And aren't there always things not tested for or they can't test for? Not sure but seems so.

I think Alex had something that we will never know or was given something... His trip to Mexico for drugs just before seems significant to me...

The malachite rings seem of significance to me, Lori isn't the type to want a cheap ring, I feel there was meaning...

GrandmaBear · May 3, 2023

Kimster said:
Nate said it’s because it allows Lori to tell the jury about her beliefs without the prosecution being able to question her.

Yeah, i think they were as much arguing the reasons and law such shouldn't be allowed than maybe worried about the content which actually isn't anything much for the part of the recording they shared. Those beliefs in that video imo adds nothing the defense can use either imo.

I do though wonder and the prosecution maybe as well what Archibald plans to do with it and why he felt it important it be submitted because I don't see where it is anything of significance...?

Tresir · May 3, 2023

GrandmaBear said:
So can I ask how do you picture it. If he is holding her arms he can't be choking her or putting something over her head at the same time. Did he get something over her and then hold her by the arms. so she couldn't tear it off? I don't like to think about it but I can't quite see how it was gone about....? Were there two, Alex and Chad and one held her down...?

To me the marks on her left arm looked like knee marks and the ones on her right looked like hand marks. This could feasibly leave one arm and the body to suffocate with a pillow and/or a plastic bag.

Tresir · May 3, 2023

GrandmaBear said:
Nothing was found I don't believe other than the drug she was prescribed that I forget the name of right now and I believe an anti-depressant.

I mean he could have held her arms and his forearm be across her throat with his weight bearing down on her or it could have even been while standing and from behind but lacking is any signs of bruising or injury to the neck. And I agree, why wouldn't she scream if all he had hold of were her arms. It's notable too that most bruising was to one arm far more than the other.

I just can't quite come up with the scenario. I guess she could have been asleep and he gagged her or something first and she came to fighting and then he grabbed her arms...? Put a bag over her head and secured it quickly and then she started fighting and he grabbed her arms...

I believe he bruised her arms no doubt in her death but if anyone has the scenario that makes sense in how overall I'd like to hear it...

OR yes, she screamed and if so, why didn't Garth hear?

If Garth and Emma are called to testify, I hope the prosecution knows to go at them as strongly as they would any witness. They aren't some withering delicate five year olds. No one in this case I don't think by either side has been treated in any nasty manner, I will say that. The questions are serious ones but no one has been viciously torn to shreds.

In the West case, many minor boys have just testified against their parents. In Stauch, the defendant's daughter who was present for a lot had to testify and she is younger than Garth or Emma. I think in West they told the truth to the best of their memory, the one having the best solid memory imo. In Stauch, I think she for the most part told the truth. Let's see what Garth and Emma do but they should be called if it adds anything or helps close questions (jury would believe or not believe depending on how honest they seemed and if it fit the facts). They are more necessary in Chad's trial I think but still, Lori is charged in it and the conspiracy re their mom and those triangle points and whether she knew, etc. comes back to it. Their meeting of her, if they were upset, how their dad and Lori acted, oh yeah, they should be called I think.

Tammy's SIL worried in the interview five months ago that Garth would possibly throw himself under the bus by lying for his dad or saying something that clearly isn't true when matched with facts and she was begging him not to do that imo by hoping he doesn't is more how she said it.

If they haven't, these "kids" need to wake up and smell the coffee for lack of a better way to put it before I've had my coffee this morning lol so best I can come up with at moment.

Also do we know who was all present in the home? Was it only Garth? I know Emma was on scene in short order. Who was actually living there and home at the time... All? Only Garth? Why? Garth is the oldest isn't he?

I think Garth was living there and Emma lived opposite so could have been there quickly.

Regarding the times of Alex's phone being at Chad's on the 23rd Sept (JJ), it appears to me he wasn't there too long so I think Chad must have already had JJ's grave dug. If you remember, it was quite deep and had boards over the body and stones and earth over the boards. His phone arrives at 9.55 and leaves at 10.12 so is only there for 17 minutes. He then returns to Lori's apartment. IMO that
proves conspiracy between the three of them.

"Alex's device doesn't move from his apartment between 12:11 a.m. and 9:41 a.m. on Sept. 23. At 9:41 a.m., the device travels from the apartments Chad Daybell's home where it ~~arrives~~ at 9:55 a.m.
By 10:12 a.m., Alex's device departs the residence southbound until Rexburg and goes to Lori's apartment at 10:22 a.m. It stays there until 11:14 a.m.
Two data points were found near the pond on Chad's property between 9:55 a.m. and 10:02 a.m. Other data points were recorded at the house's front door.
Wright points out on a Google Earth image where Alex's data points were recorded on Chad's property."

GrandmaBear · May 3, 2023

Tresir said:
To me the marks on her left arm looked like knee marks and the ones on her right looked like hand marks. This could feasibly leave one arm and the body to suffocate with a pillow and/or a plastic bag.

Now that makes sense. I couldn't come up with some picture that did but that does.

Tresir · May 3, 2023

Kimster said:
I think Alex may have snuck into the house. He turned his phone off for a short period of time. I think it was about an hour.

I don't think his records showed anything for the 18th October.

Kimster · May 3, 2023

GrandmaBear said:
Toxicology well after the time of death and on exhumation seems often untrustworthy to me. Did they take save fluids or parts of organs or did they take from her exhumed body...? And aren't there always things not tested for or they can't test for? Not sure but seems so.

I think Alex had something that we will never know or was given something... His trip to Mexico for drugs just before seems significant to me...

The malachite rings seem of significance to me, Lori isn't the type to want a cheap ring, I feel there was meaning...

He said it was the most extensive testing he's ever seen/done.

Kimster · May 3, 2023

Tresir said:
I don't think his records showed anything for the 18th October.

Oh? So it was only JJ's last day? I'm depending on you, Tresir. You're our Alex cell phone ping expert now.

Kimster · May 3, 2023

Today's explosive testimony so far:

10 a.m. Audrey says she terminated the friendship with Lori in October 2019 after praying about it. She was in Lori’s house and Audrey told her she was going to go upstairs and pack her bags. Audrey: “I asked her the question, ‘Is there anything weird going on that I don’t know about? And she said, ‘What do you mean?’ and I said ‘I don’t know anything.’ I took her at her word because I’m a trusting person.”

10:04 a.m. Audrey: “As soon as I turned to go upstairs, she started laughing – like if you were laughing at someone. She said, ‘You’re so naive and too trusting. You’re like a little child. You think the world is all unicorns and rainbows. You go around helping people and serving them. Well I’ve got news for you. Not everyone is a good person and not everyone can be so kind. Then she threatened to kill me. She said she would cut me up and wasn’t in the mental place to do it but would get herself in a place to do it. There would be blood and bleach and something about trash bags. She would bury me in a place nobody would ever find me.”

10:07 a.m. Archibald now questioning Audrey and reminds her that she promised, under oath, to tell the whole truth. Archibald said none of this testimony came up in the grand jury proceedings. “Nothing of this sort was talked about. You want the jury to believe that you just didn’t make this last crap up?” Audrey says, “I did not make it up.”

10:08 a.m. Audrey says she did not ever mention this before because she was scared. Archibald forcefully pushes Audrey that this never came up in previous testimony and she stands by her claims. He has nothing further. Rawlings asks if she can ask one more question. Boyce says no. We are now headed to a morning break. Back around 10:40 a.m.

DAY 21 | LIVE UPDATES: Ian Pawlowski, Lori Daybell's nephew-in-law, takes the stand in murder trial - East Idaho News

LIVE UPDATES FROM THE LORI VALLOW DAYBELL TRIAL 4 p.m. Sketches from today: 3:21 p.m. Boyce says the defense intends to use the recordings and they need to be prepared. Court is dismissed for the day. Join me tonight at 7:30 p.m. on ‘Courtroom Insider’ for a breakdown of all the major...

www.eastidahonews.com

Tresir · May 3, 2023

Someone called Audrey is testifying. It doesn't sound good for Lori.

Tresir · May 3, 2023

Kimster said:
Oh? So it was only JJ's last day? I'm depending on you, Tresir. You're our Alex cell phone ping expert now.

It seems like the failed attempt on the 9th was his last involvement. According to the phone data anyway. (I will double check in case I missed some testimony and come back and update. There was some more info for the 18th but it it not conclusive see below )

Significant dates to compare to the testimony about Alex's phone movements and receipts.

Sep 9 Tylee's death, dismemberment, burning and burial. Raccoon text.
Sep 23 JJ's death and burial
Oct 2 failed shooting on Brandon
Oct 2 Lori purchases wedding ring
Oct 3 Tammy's dead Grandma visits Chad
Oct 4 and 5 Tammy visits Springfield
Oct 9 failed shooting by man in ski mask
Oct 19 Tammy's death
Oct 23 Tammy's funeral
Nov 5 beach wedding
"On Oct. 16, the device associated with Alex Cox left Lori's apartment and went to the Comfort Inn in Hurricane, Utah. It stopped there for the night and the next day (Oct. 17) went to the Las Vegas airport.
The next day, on Oct. 18, the device went back to Rexburg. Lori Vallow had taken a flight from Las Vegas to Hawaii on Oct. 17.
We now see a map and chart explaining Alex's device on Oct. 18. It was at Chick-fil-A in Ammon from 7:58 - 9:32 p.m. A data point is then collected near the Salem LDS Church near Chad's house from 10:45 - 11:53 p.m.
There becomes a period of time without any data but the next data point is near US Highway at 11:53 p.m. The device does not go back to Alex's apartment - rather, it goes to the Hilton Garden in Idaho Falls.
The next slide is a map that shows where Alex's device lingered at the Salem LDS Church. The distance between Chad's house and the church is around 2.5 miles. Thirty minutes of data points are collected and then there is 1.5 hours of no data.
Wright says police could not identify anyone else who Alex knew living in the area.
Wright points out on a map where data points were collected outside the LDS Church building the night Tammy Daybell died. "We then don't know where the device is for an hour and eight minutes."
Wright identified three days when Alex's device went in the vicinity of the Daybell residence: Oct. 9, Oct. 15 and Oct. 18."

So there is a time he is near Chad's home, 2.5 miles away at the church, late at night between 10.53 pm and 11.45 pm on the 18th Oct when the device is not traceable.

Hmmm.

RoundPeg · May 3, 2023

That's just blasphemy.

Kimster · May 3, 2023

RoundPeg said:
That's just blasphemy.

It sure is! I was surprised that Audrey accepted that Jesus had wives!

Kimster · May 3, 2023

Current testimony details the cell phone data the night Tammy died:

So for an hour that night, Alex' cell phone didn't ping off any towers?

JOSHUA "JJ" VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN, TAMMY DAYBELL, & CHARLES VALLOW: State of Idaho/Arizona vs. Lori & Chad Daybell *GUILTY*

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JOSHUA "JJ" VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN, TAMMY DAYBELL, & CHARLES VALLOW: State of Idaho/Arizona vs. Lori & Chad Daybell GUILTY