LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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Okay. They aren't privately paid attorneys though.

I do know the difference because we had such for the defendant in our case, know it well. Either way they are State paid attorneys. For a murder defendant they have to give them someone experience and often more so than the usual county public defenders


I stand corrected. The point was they are not being paid by Allen and I am PRETTY sure they aren't being paid their private paid rate but who knows, isn't my state.

Now however they are hiring private paid attorneys and the post includes "Allen" in this who has these private paid appellate attorneys or do I have that wrong as well?
They are private but have been hired as temporary public defenders in this case. They are not actually employed as permanent public defenders as a job.
 
Record of Proceedings.pdf
^ this links to the google drive for the appellate exhibit submissions - a very big file on google drive. open to public.

See Exhibit I, page 190:


NEW - Email Chain ... Where upon All the Parties learn about the LEAK and it gets dramatic.

I feel like I should not copy the entire email chain ... but y'all need to go to the google drive and read Exhibit I ... it's in reverse Chron order. Names of the Leakers, and Prosecution's narrative on the ISP investigation of the leak is in these docs.

Stuff for the timeline:

Oct 12, STOP WORK was a request via an email, upon Gull learning via email about the suicide.
Oct 6, Defense alerts Court of the Leak.
Prosecution knew 30 hours before Defense knew, had already started the Leak investigation, and didn't bother to alert the Defense.
Oct 4/5, Prosecution/LE starts Leak investigation.
Huh? How did prosecution know before the defence, when it was the defence that leaked it? Who told ISP about the leaker so they could interview him, but not arrest him and just leave him to commit suicide? So this must be the fault of the Prosecution (Nicholas Mcleland) surely, not the defence?
 
Ok I got into the document and found the leaker. Right so now we know. Why didn't ISP arrest him there and then and take him into custody. At least he would still be alive. I am just speechless.
Question: If I go to look at it do I end up with some HUGE download I can't have/do? I was going to look earlier but the talk of the size stopped me. I am on a new computer but not one with a lot of room and I don't want to start downloading thing after thing that I don't need.

Second, is this not public in which case, this thread could use any info or thoughts shared no?

I would comment with thoughts on ISP and the suicider but prefer not to do so without looking at it myself and being more informed, however, again I don't want to download some huge thing or some zip file.
 
I don't have the time or awake brain to even touch all of the problems with these people in what I read here. Let's START with why the FORMER employee would forward this stuff to the guy who disseminated it (allegedly) and suicided (allegedly) to BEGIN with. That right there is uhm why would ya send it on? For WHAT reason? Clearly former employee had such access just for starters. FORMER employee.

And THEN Baldwin advises his former employee did this in August and sent such to the other guy and so does this mean he knew this in AUGUST or did he find out only when sh*t hit or was about to. How conenient. And he reported it before the fact or only AFTER they knew sh*t hit the fan or was about to AND how again how did he know?

If ANYONE believes this was not an intentional chain and leak to remove selves a step or two away, but have happen what they wanted to happen, a leak and turn of tides and pandemonium, they are naive as they come.

Just adding on to a post to all that on another note, the show I am watching which is of attorneys are calling Allen's former attorneys "public defenders" which imo they are. In our state they are on a list when there needs to be a better more experienced one in a certain type of case. They may be a private attorney elsewhere with a practice but they are acting as a public defender in such cases and paid by the state Just as typical county public defenders can also have private practices, and vice versa.

They aren't private paid but state paid and have to be more experienced than the typical area public defender and so they go to that in such cases. They ARE public defenders imo. Just not the type who get a weekly paycheck or operate out of the county or state public defender's office.
Public defenders are salaried, government employees.
Court appointed attorneys are paid by case (appointment), private attorneys.

I think a lot of people do confuse the two.
 
Huh? How did prosecution know before the defence, when it was the defence that leaked it? Who told ISP about the leaker so they could interview him, but not arrest him and just leave him to commit suicide? So this must be the fault of the Prosecution (Nicholas Mcleland) surely, not the defence?
I think whoever the leaker communicated with must have went to the prosecution.
 
Leak source was former employee of Baldwin who continued to go in and out of Baldwin's offices for a bit and knew of the case and had the opportunity to take photos of crime scene photos and secretly did so. bad bad Westerman.

MS told ISP first. ISP told Prosecutor. Prosecutor knew first.
MS called Defense a day later. (Who knows why? They decided they should, I guess) And that must be how Defense found out.
 
I think just 3 new appellate lawyers, and they're repping RA.

But these new 3 are clearly getting support from Rozzi & Baldwin, who I think is paying them JMO>
Paying them why?

I thought we had on the cast of characters:

2 new court appointed attorneys for RA (can't remember their names) filing a brief regarding unsealing records,

1 attorney representing Baldwin and Rozzi regarding Gull's behavior.

I count 5? I'm genuinely confused lol.
 
Paying them why?

I thought we had on the cast of characters:

2 new court appointed attorneys for RA (can't remember their names) filing a brief regarding unsealing records,

1 attorney representing Baldwin and Rozzi regarding Gull's behavior.

I count 5? I'm genuinely confused lol.
There's 3 in Supreme Court Filings and ... it's hard to know who's paying that bill. at first I thought RA's old attorneys might be paying the bill.
If you look at it though ... the petitioner is the State of Indiana?

There's the old D - that's 2. Plus Hennessey that's 1.
There's the new D - that's 2.

So 4 lawyers in the circuit ... (but that won't last)
1 lawyer for Baldwin

3 lawyers at the Supreme Court (but who's the client?)
 
Ugh I wonder if Gull will recuse herself tomorrow?

I can't see how she lets Baldwin and Rozzi back in as RA's attorneys after kicking them out of her courtroom for gross negligence ... and keep a straight face when they return.

The gross negligence doesn't go away just b/c the State's not paying them.
 
These emails back and forth between the attnys and the judge about the discovery of the LEAK are really bothering me.

I mean, I now have Gull's email address and I can just send her an email right now and ask her what she's gonna do tomorrow when Rozzi and Baldwin show up.

(I'll be sure let y'all know what she says.)

Also I have Nick McL's cell phone. whoopee!!

jkjkjkjkjkjk

but for realzies, how are they not redacting this personal info? :shocked:
 
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Question: If I go to look at it do I end up with some HUGE download I can't have/do? I was going to look earlier but the talk of the size stopped me. I am on a new computer but not one with a lot of room and I don't want to start downloading thing after thing that I don't need.

Second, is this not public in which case, this thread could use any info or thoughts shared no?

I would comment with thoughts on ISP and the suicider but prefer not to do so without looking at it myself and being more informed, however, again I don't want to download some huge thing or some zip file.
Yes it is pretty big but has an index on the first page or so, so you can see what page you need to page down to. That's what I did to find the leaker bit.

And Olenna provided the page number too.
Thanks Olenna
 
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They are private but have been hired as temporary public defenders in this case. They are not actually employed as permanent public defenders as a job.
Exactly and are available for such public defender work/role and on a list. At least here they are.

Our murderer got such and we were unaware such could happen and asked of course how the heck. We were advised he has to be given someone experienced in defending in murder trials they can't just give him the local defender and his was from another county with a pretty good record/known as well. It was news to us they could be given a pricey private attorney with their own firm but acting in such a case in a public defender role paid for by the state.

Even so, he quit him at a point and paid for an even pricier private attorney or his grandma or someone did. The guy had assets as we pointed out to our prosecution team so unsure he should have even qualified to begin with and perhaps he was told he didn't and that's what happened, and had to get his own, unsure. He owned a home, toys, etc. and was unmarried.

One has to wonder in this case too, Allen and wife have a home, however, he is married and not sure how that works or if it is paid off either. It would be gone though in no time at private attorney rates.
 
Huh? How did prosecution know before the defence, when it was the defence that leaked it? Who told ISP about the leaker so they could interview him, but not arrest him and just leave him to commit suicide? So this must be the fault of the Prosecution (Nicholas Mcleland) surely, not the defence?
Murder Sheet told both didn't they? Maybe pros before defense? And not only that, others had gotten the photos. Had I received them I'd be calling the pros or the cops, not the defense and don't doubt others would do/feel the same. That's what you do to report someone.

I want to know how the atty. knows his guy took screen shots in AUGUST, when he knew this and WHO told him this.

I watched a show last night that said one of the last things suicider said was so long as he came clean he'd be fine. The guy was having a hard time believing with that remark he would then commit suicide. Also thinks it needs to be explained and not just accepted to be suicide and I'd agree. Single gun shot wound apparently. However, a murderer can do the same, that doesn't make it a suicide. It needs to be explained how they are certain, IF they even are...

I don't see where you can think it is the fault of the prosecution when it has been admitted to. They were investigating as they'd been told of the leak.

As far as leaving him to commit suicide, honestly, did they even have anything to charge him with at that point? This guy wasn't under any court order and was not the one who took the screen shots. I would imagine they were going "up" the chain with him to where they originated from and how he got them.

I heard his name last night (and promptly forgot it lol), it is no secret.
 
Public defenders are salaried, government employees.
Court appointed attorneys are paid by case (appointment), private attorneys.

I think a lot of people do confuse the two.
I'm not sure I am confusing them but see no need to argue the point. I believe in this case they are working as an appointed public defender but it really doesn't matter, either way RA did not have a private paid attorney and it came up in my remarking of how now the State paid ones pay private appellate ones on behalf of them and Allen or so it was put.
 
Leak source was former employee of Baldwin who continued to go in and out of Baldwin's offices for a bit and knew of the case and had the opportunity to take photos of crime scene photos and secretly did so. bad bad Westerman.

MS told ISP first. ISP told Prosecutor. Prosecutor knew first.
MS called Defense a day later. (Who knows why? They decided they should, I guess) And that must be how Defense found out.
Imo there is NO explaining this guy's access who is not EVEN an employee, nor a right to go in and out and apparently log onto computers with passwords, etc.? I mean they were WARNED to secure this sh*t.

Defense could have become aware who knows when by who knows who AND if behind it, knew all along...

Everything put together, I see no reason to believe a word that at least Baldwin says...
 
I think just 3 new appellate lawyers, and they're repping RA.

But these new 3 are clearly getting support from Rozzi & Baldwin, who I think is paying them JMO>
Yeah and I think they may well be muddying lines and cases by doing so... There is Allen's case and then there is the leak, their removal and their fight on their own behalf... All may affect Allen's case and rights but they also are different things that stand on their own as well no....?

It almost appears as if they are tangling Allen up in their own mess which surely he was unaware of right...

IF this case ever does end in a trial and conviction, the appeals and bases for them are going to be endless I think...

They are muddying and mingling issues right now (defense) imo. No expert but a simpleton can see that this, and it makes it even harder to follow. Maybe, however, the crackerjack private paid appellate attorneys they hired will straighten that all out...

No doubt this case is a flat out mess and yet imo it all started at/starts at the doorstep of the defense.
 
Paying them why?

I thought we had on the cast of characters:

2 new court appointed attorneys for RA (can't remember their names) filing a brief regarding unsealing records,

1 attorney representing Baldwin and Rozzi regarding Gull's behavior.

I count 5? I'm genuinely confused lol.
The appellate attorneys.
 

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