LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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Me, either, but it definitely needs to be looked into to make sure. It wouldn't be good police work for them not to look into it, but I'm like you. I'm not set on it.

If those girls were displayed similarly to Abby and Libby, that would be a huge clue. Also, if he was living in that area at the time, or had reason to be there, that would also help. If he's ruled out because he was nowhere near there, that would settle it.
 
I've never been sold one way or the other.
In Iowa, the girls were moved 25 miles.
I'm not convinced Abby and Libby wouldn't have been moved too had things gone differently. There are also people who believe they were. Even if not, all elements don't have to be exactly the same to be the same perp.

Cops have always said they see no reason to believe they are related, don't think they are, etc. or something on that order. But cops have ALWAYS said that in such cases, at least at first... They can't really know can they if they don't know the perp in either case. If both have DNA I guess they could compare that, or fingerprints, but they'd have to know such came from the perp in each case...

I as well am not sure. Having an arrest now in this one should allow LE to take a serious in depth look at whether it is possible or not.
 
The date is a bit weird not that I put emphasis on numbers in most cases but some serial killers have had patterns or certain signatures, dates with meaning to them, etc. Lyric and Elizabeth were killed on 71312 (skipping dashes to show more clearly). Read it backwards and it is the date Abby and Libby went missing.

This man was 45 and this doesn't appear to be a crime that simply was an opportunistic or unplanned crime. Unplanned spontaneous crimes or crimes of passion for instance generally don't have staging and such. Pretty difficult to believe this is his only crime OR his first. What, has he fantasized of such for many of his 45 years and finally just carried ONE out with Abby and Libby? It's possible I guess...

I googled distances from the towns he is said to have lived in in Indiana just to Evansdale and it is about a seven hour drive. While not like in the next town over, certainly doable. To me it doesn't really matter if they've owned their home since 2006, many serial killers have hit all over the country and some have stayed only in their own home territory. He could have been on vacation even with his wife, he could have been on a weekend alone or fishing, etc. He could have even had just one day free and driven there and back in one day looking for someone.

And then who knows, at any point they could have been split up and him not living in the home. Look at me, I have been between homes and states for years but only one address is my residency and has stayed the same.

Of course all of these things I suggest are unlikely with no reason to think such but also not impossible at all.

As I said, not as good with details on the Lyric case but have read about it all more than once. If I recall, the area they were found or went missing in was a resort or lake area wasn't it?

Now that they have someone, they will have Allen's DNA or does the fact IN didn't pass that law until not long ago play into that? I sure hope they can now take it. without his permission. If it is run in CODIS who knows what it may hit on.
 
In the things I have seen out there, people haven't went too off the wall passing false info but I am seeing some of it. Or at least likely unverified things that are then repeated as fact. The 20 million bond was false with the person claiming her husband worked for the IN courts because we have been told it is no bond. Well now I have seen comments that looked at way back when briefly but no reason to look at him further and that he had an alibi. I am stressing I have seen this in no news but looked briefly this morning to see if I can find anything like that to no avail after I saw the comment a few hours ago. Has anyone heard this? Because it was the type of thing Carter said in a press conference or two that could have been generic or could have meant they had a good clue who but couldn't arrest because a friend or family member (sounded like family member) was covering for them...
 
In Libby and Abby he somehow got two girls "down the hill'. Probably a weapon. In Lyric and Elizabeth, whoever apparently got two girls off their bikes and into a car. Or like in Abby and Libby did something to them first at one scene and then took them to another, etc. It isn't necessarily different... And in both cases, one has to consider taking two without any issue or something going wrong is entirely possible. In Delphi, it certainly isn't hard to believe Libby didn't make it easy or at least tried and had some presence of mind as she RECORDED him. I think it very well may have not gone as planned.

Another thing is there seems to be thoughts that the perp in Delphi recorded the murders or photographed them and the bodies. I am not sure where this is coming from but it fits with some things that have been said through the years... A couple of things come to mind if that is true and one of course is that he dealt with pictures at CVS and another is the dropbox and false account related to Kline...
 
The date is a bit weird not that I put emphasis on numbers in most cases but some serial killers have had patterns or certain signatures, dates with meaning to them, etc. Lyric and Elizabeth were killed on 71312 (skipping dashes to show more clearly). Read it backwards and it is the date Abby and Libby went missing.

This man was 45 and this doesn't appear to be a crime that simply was an opportunistic or unplanned crime. Unplanned spontaneous crimes or crimes of passion for instance generally don't have staging and such. Pretty difficult to believe this is his only crime OR his first. What, has he fantasized of such for many of his 45 years and finally just carried ONE out with Abby and Libby? It's possible I guess...

I googled distances from the towns he is said to have lived in in Indiana just to Evansdale and it is about a seven hour drive. While not like in the next town over, certainly doable. To me it doesn't really matter if they've owned their home since 2006, many serial killers have hit all over the country and some have stayed only in their own home territory. He could have been on vacation even with his wife, he could have been on a weekend alone or fishing, etc. He could have even had just one day free and driven there and back in one day looking for someone.

And then who knows, at any point they could have been split up and him not living in the home. Look at me, I have been between homes and states for years but only one address is my residency and has stayed the same.

Of course all of these things I suggest are unlikely with no reason to think such but also not impossible at all.

As I said, not as good with details on the Lyric case but have read about it all more than once. If I recall, the area they were found or went missing in was a resort or lake area wasn't it?

Now that they have someone, they will have Allen's DNA or does the fact IN didn't pass that law until not long ago play into that? I sure hope they can now take it. without his permission. If it is run in CODIS who knows what it may hit on.
Indiana's DNA law was rushed through the legislature (less than a year, which was considered the speed of lightning as far as new bills/laws being passed) because of Delphi.
 
With Kline's involvement, the farmers "alleged" involvement and now this new dude, I wonder if they're looking at a ring. People who work together to set young girls up? It would explain why they're being so tight lipped about the investigation.

:thinking:
 
Indiana's DNA law was rushed through the legislature (less than a year, which was considered the speed of lightning as far as new bills/laws being passed) because of Delphi.
Yeah I know it affects that prior crimes and criminals wouldn't have had their DNA in a database but can they now take RA's DNA on arrest EVEN if the crime was prior to that law passed? That's what I am wondering?
 
With Kline's involvement, the farmers "alleged" involvement and now this new dude, I wonder if they're looking at a ring. People who work together to set young girls up? It would explain why they're being so tight lipped about the investigation.

:thinking:
It was said somewhere during the Kline thing that it is a ring. I think ISP or LE said it to Kline that they knew it was one etc., etc. in questioning him. I saw someone say the other night though that cops can lie so they could just say that to scare Kline into talking that they thought this was even BIGGER crimes and a ring, etc. So yeah it came out of actual LE's mouths that there was a ring of guys using the fake account, the drop box etc. Think they said one of the biggest ever rings...

I do think something on that order is going on. Every case we follow I see people always with children and all thinking it is trafficking or this or that/something big that I don't think it is, but in THIS one, I think we may have exactly that going on... Logan may or may not have been part but I am pretty convinced Kline and Allen are... Probably both Klines...

I will go so far as to wonder if there are federal investigations also going on and men in other states, etc. Who knows...? Or it could be just a small group of IN men...

I put it at about 85 percent Kline is part of this or provided info or something.

HOWEVER, I do allow that it could also be some other kind of break... The wife could have turned him in, a friend, the right tip, he was up to something else and they got onto it, they were watching him and his online activity and monitoring calls, who knows?? But that DA could have answered the Kline question with a resounding no to put an end to that speculation if there is nothing like that going on. He didn't. He more or less said they couldn't talk about how Kline connected to it (paraphrasing)...

It is all just too coincidental... WAY too coincidental.

Here is another thought--if they are connected and Kline is friends or was with Allen or they share their dirty secrets, and RA saw Kline arrested and knows he could spill the beans what is he going to do? As I think ISP made SURE the fact they were questioning Kline leaked (people think they didn't want it to leak but I'm not so sure...) Allen is going to be sweating and worried. Now he'd be dumb to like do a prison call with him, etc. but he may try to use the dropbox or fake account or contact DAD Kline to get a message to him or find out what is what and the cops may well have been monitoring... Something on this order. Or even HAD Kline in a deal contact RA to tell him hey the cops are asking questions about you to get RA to say something...

I don't think that is far fetched. And I hope they take down ALL of these guys.

If I find out we are wrong, I don't care one bit if for instance the wife turned him in and there is no ring. I'm just happy for the arrest. But I think there IS a group and I also think someone may have been with Allen that day. Maybe, maybe not...
 
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I looked up a summary of Indiana DNA law as cited and summarized by various Indiana news sources, including Fox 59, at the time the law went into effect. I am not a lawyer.
Basically, as of Dec. 31, 2017 and after that date , anyone who is ARRESTED for a felony in Indiana past Dec. 31 2017 is REQUIRED to give a DNA sample in the form of a cheek swab at the time of arrest/booking. Fingerprints and mug shots are also required to be taken.
 
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MEXICO, Ind. — The Carroll County Sheriff’s Office confirmed that deputies were sent to Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen’s home in 2015 for a “domestic” incident.

The sheriff’s office was dispatched just after 3:30 in the morning on June 18, 2015, according to records obtained by FOX59. The sheriff said Allen was allegedly drunk and his wife took him to a Lafayette-area hospital for a medical evaluation.

Sheriff Leazenby said no law enforcement action was involved other than responding to “keep the peace.”

Richard Allen grew up in the small town of Mexico, about 30 miles from Delphi. Several people who knew him said all of them told us they never would have suspected him.

 
Yeah I know it affects that prior crimes and criminals wouldn't have had their DNA in a database but can they now take RA's DNA on arrest EVEN if the crime was prior to that law passed? That's what I am wondering?
Yes they can. See my post above. The indianalawyer website has a paywall, but the few sentences I read for free said that over 4000 DNA samples from felony arrests had been added to the database in just a few years after the law was passed.
 
Heard a few times that seemed to be fact that Richard Allen came forward in the beginning as a "witness" and to tell LE he had been at the bridge that day! Didn't know the source but did now find this. Fox59 has had info a few times now that others don't. They clearly have at least I'a local if not an even better source... So apparently it is true.

I do not want to attack the family but of course many have been asking how the wife and daughter wouldn't recognize their own husband and his voice, etc. but this puts more of a light on that even. Not recognizing him in Libby's video is one thing but then you know he was at the bridge in this time frame??? Now that is a lot harder to fathom. You see the video AND you know your husband was there...

 

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