LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

1581272168478.png

Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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In filed papers to the court as I recall, an investigator for the D, while physically at the prison, got this info from RA prison records, and the filing expressed concern over the LE visit. Papers stated the D was conducting further investigation into this apparent LE contact w/o RA attny present. There may have been an affidavit from the investigator submitted? ... should others have time to dig.
Hmm. What about the poster then? No further comment as to all this. I think any could about figure out what I'd think as again IF even in such, here we go again with the D. ANd my foggy memory seems to think this was NOT what happened. Yes if anyone wants to dig or go back. With something other than the D as well. IF even the case they said it. You seem unsure for you in what papers, etc.

Also still not sure why cuz went back, found such and brought it forward either totally out of any discussion or context.
 
Huh? What coerced confession was that?
Wow not going to ignore this one either. Sorry but calling it like it is--constant use of words and assumptions and trying to put falsehoods out. Coerced. Interrogation. Custodial. Interrogation room. Not a THING has been shown that shows ANY of this. I could go back to the ISC things and cite a lot more and throughout. Putting stuff out as fact that isn't.

Both you and I know and I'd dare say most know none of this is proven and again it is a defense filing with people trying to insert in forums things as facts that are not.

Sorry folks but I'm never going to leave such go either. Someone comes in here now or in the future knowing nothing about the case and reads posts like that and thinks wow, yeah, they did him wrong when there is nothing that can be stated as fact like this rather than opinion. And I will call it out. So anyone who ever comes to read sees not only the falsehoods but the response to such.

Maybe it will end up true, maybe it won't but it sure the HE77 isn't right now. Unless of course some is claiming to be an insider and seen it all as MW has lol. If not, then kindly stop.

I need to get out of here as I'm not up on Daybell. Just old stuff here i'm catching up with anyhow.

Peace to ALL. Have a good one.
 
No one knows imo. Talking heads I've heard says it IS valid. AND that BOTH were noncustodial. YOu posted one yourself I watched. I haen't seen one but would about guarantee other talking heads or worthless channels are saying otherwise yet actually it's pretty quiet on this case since the whole leak thing and contempt thing and even prior somewhat...
Yeah, I know what I think and some on YouTube but was asking posters here.
 
Item # 13 on page 3 is interesting. Any idea who the subject could be.

Defense submitted an additional motion for sanctions.



Ok managed to read some of it on Reddit. Could it be the suicidee RF? ( mentioned in para 13 )

So they want everything on Libby's phone thrown out, basically because they haven't had time to read all the discovery or been able to access all the discovery. And they are blaming it all on NM.

Not going to happen.

Now we know why they requested speedy trial.
 
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If the D hadn't spent all their time on a ridiculous SODDI defence and leaking CS photographs, maybe they wouldn't be so behind. That whole fiasco cost them some time and they had to return all the discovery IIRC.

Does anyone know how these guys came to represent RA in the first place? Did his wife find them or a friend recommend them? Anyone know?
 
So didn't the D provide the discovery to RA last April and that is when he went mental and started eating the discovery and his excrement and confessed 5 times? So they have had it for at least a year haven't they?
 
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This article pretty much explains what has been going on.

https://www.carrollcountycomet.com/...ttps://www.carrollcountycomet.com/'][/CENTER]


Wednesday, April 24, 2024

April 03, 2024

By Amy Graham-McCarty
amy@hurdmedia.com

McLeland: Defense shows ‘Blatant dishonesty’ to Court

April 03, 2024


MCLELAND

MCLELAND

Carroll County Prosecutor Nick McLeland says a press release Richard Allen’s attorneys distributed in December 2022 was just a preview of future content and “blatant dishonesty” shown to the court.
On October 18, 2022, Allen was charged with two counts of felony murder, murder that occurred while in the commission of a felony like kidnapping, in the deaths of Abigail Williams and Liberty German. On March 18, two additional counts of murder were added when Special Judge Fran Gull ruled in favor of the State for amended charges against Allen. German and Williams went missing on Feb. 13, 2017, while on a hike at the Monon High Bridge Trail. Their bodies were found the next day not far from where they had been hiking.
McLeland filed the State’s Memorandum in Support of the Contemptuous Conduct on Monday, April 1. The defense filed its response on March 25.
“The deception to the Court began in November of 2022 when both Brad Rozzi and Andrew Baldwin told the Court that a ‘Gag’ order was not necessary because they had no intentions to talk to the media about this case,” McLeland wrote in the filing. “Within a week, both Brad Rozzi and Andrew Baldwin published a press release to media outlets. Brad Rozzi testified at the contempt proceedings that this was to curry favor with his client. It is clear that the press release was to curry favor with the public. Although it was not a violation of any ‘Gag’ order, it was a preview into future contempt shown to the Court by showing blatant dishonesty.”


ALLEN

ALLEN

McLeland said the indiscretions continued with an email from Andrew Baldwin to Brandon Woodhouse, a Rossville resident. The email released information from discovery to Woodhouse, who was not connected with the case in any way. Woodhouse then disseminated the information by “putting it on the internet for the world to consume,” McLeland wrote.
“While the content in that email may not be egregious to the Court, the fact that Andrew Baldwin and Brad Rozzi hid their error from the Court until it was found by the State, is egregious, showing yet another example of the Defense deceiving the Court,” the filing states.
The final contemptuous behavior McLeland noted was the leak of crime scene photos and other discovery protected by the Gag and Protective Order.
“The State admitted screen shots (sic) of text messages between Mark Cohen and Robert Fortson, neither of which are involved in this case in any way, nor are they employees or team members of anyone involved in this case. While these screenshots are voluminous, they paint a clear picture,” McLeland wrote in the filing. “Robert Fortson speaks about information that is only privy to the Defense. Robert Fortson talks about it within days of the Defense receiving discovery from the State. Robert Fortson has copies of the crime scene photos, he knows when (sic) Defense is working on certain aspects of the case, and he knows about the oral interview with Professor Turco three days after the recorded statement is turned over to the Defense.
“The Defense states that Mitch Westerman broke into their office and stole the pictures and then released them to Robert Fortson. It is clear from the messages between Mark Cohen and Robert Fortson that Robert Fortson received the crime scene photos and other discovery from Mitch Westerman. It is also clear that Mitch Westerman was feeding Robert Fortson several other pieces of discovery all the way up until October 2, 2023. The leak was recurring. It is also clear from the text messages between Mark Cohen and Robert Fortson that the strategy to leaking the information is to gauge the public opinion of the leaked information.”
Cohen has been identified in court records as an individual who allegedly distributed the crime scene photos to podcasters.
McLeland stated that the alleged leaking of the photos and other discovery by the Defense, he believes, was an effort by the Defense to determine what strategy to take based on the public’s response to the information.
“The screenshots from the iCloud account of Mitch Westerman. The screenshots are of text messages between Mitch Westerman and ‘Andy.’ Again, the messages are voluminous but if the Court will read through them, the Court will clearly see that ‘Andy’ is Andrew Baldwin,” McLeland said of evidence presented during the contempt hearing. “In the text, ‘Andy’ talks about writing the Franks’ memo and how it is a huge endeavor on his part. In other messages, ‘Andy’ encourages Mitch Westerman to reach out to the media and push their narrative. ‘Andy’ further states that he has already been in touch with Dateline and spoke to them. All of this is a violation of the ‘Gag’ order by Andrew Baldwin and the Defense.
McLeland stated in his response that the Defense claimed to the Court previously that Westerman “stole” the photos from their office, however, at the March 18 hearing, the prosecutor says the Defense implied that Westerman was “now a consultant of the Defense and any communications between Mitch Westerman and Andrew Baldwin should be considered work product.”
“The Defense has consistently altered Mitch Westerman’s involvement in this case,” McLeland wrote in his response. “Why didn’t the Defense make the Court and the State aware on the October 10, 2023 phone call that Mitch Westerman was a consultant and that he had access to discovery? It is the State’s belief that the Defense was trying to conceal or diminish Mitch Westerman’s role in the leak … The Defense intentionally violated the Court’s orders and leaked discovery information in an effort to push their narrative out to the public to gauge public response. This was a strategic move by the Defense in violation of the Court’s orders.”
McLeland says the crime scene photos continue to “cause havoc across the internet and revictimize the families of those involved.”
“As recently as March 28, 2024, a YouTuber posted the leaked crime scene pictures on his channel to the public and ultimately to the world. That You- Tube video made it back to the family retraumatizing them,” he said. “It has become known that the YouTuber forwarded the pictures on to other You- Tubers and they continue to be posted on the World Wide Web. Despite the State and investigators spending countless hours trying to track down all the various outlets the pictures and discovery were leaked to, the damage done by the leaked crime scene photos seems to be ongoing.”
In concluding his filing, McLeland asked the Court to find Baldwin and Rozzi in indirect contempt.
“The allegations here by the State are that Andrew Baldwin and Brad Rozzi willfully disobeyed a lawful order of the court after they were served with it,” he wrote.
Special Judge Fran Gull now has 30 days to rule on the matter of the contempt motion, which was filed in January.
 
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At the outset you can't confirm anything about the car, at the end of your post it is a ruse.
Actually, at the end of my posts is a JMHO.
KA couldn't drive both cars home with Rick in custody. Did she even stay to get it? SOmething said somewhere she wasn't allowed to go back with him (not saying it was ou, dn't know but someoone or something did maybe their filing, but you say she never went inside.
Doesn't matter.
Anyhow you don't know so say so.
KA irrelevant other than she went to ISP in one car w/ RA so each of them could drive a car back home.
I guess it depends on a ruse.
It depends on a custodial interrogation.
LE has already searched, taken the car, etc. and are hot on probably getting a warrant for arrest and they call about their car. And yes, let's see if we can say we have a few more questions. How is it the car was a ruse if KA never even went in or checked to see if she could get it when maybe he said something in his questioning or they were about ready to arrest him to begin with and then he/not they came in?
KA = Irrelevant.
Do you know where the car ended up being , when she got it back and where it was?
Irrelevant.
I kind of doubt it.
I've lost track of what irrelevant thing you're doubting.
As far as I can tell, much of what you say are statements as if fact and not opinion.
Generally, I comment/observe (and/or opinion) re new or established facts and filings and relevant links. JMHO every post. (Might have a rare slip here or there.)
I'm not responsible for others' reading comprehension and/or cognitive bias.
You did he same throughout the ISC filings and so on.
Oh! Sometimes I type MOO. Or IMO, and so on. :cowcouch:

And ALL always comes from only defense claims.
Link, please.
And yet you say you are undecided, have no opinion and will wait for trial.
AND as a jury impersonator, I'm a member of the presumption of innocence cult.
Seriously. Just asking? What is the deal?
1/2 price salmon on fish Fridays?
I mean you know what the rest of us don't? Is that it?
Yes. Everyone knows stuff others don't know - pretty sure that is it.
Hang on, let me check in with the Greco-Romans as to the premise of a forum ...

(Turns out - Yes. That's the premise of a forum. )

Or we don't have any brain cells?
I'm sure you're exaggerating.
Not attacking, just wondering.
False. I'm responding to a post that attacks, accuses, presumes and does not wonder in the least.
DO you follow any other cases?
GWYNETH !!!!!!
Some reason this one is your pet and you state things as fact that aren't?
A murder trial is not a pet ... and ... link please.
Is it political?
Pffffffffttttttt
Did Gull steal your bf in high school.
Are you a middle school mean girl? Still?
Lol. I am seriously asking where this all comes from?
Well then, in all seriousness, it comes from running docket entries through my good old processor process.

What do you think about Daybell? Doerman? How Miranda has come up in some other cases on here recently?
Who?
I'd really like to know.
Can't help you.

JMHO

Yeah I am sure the long posts was sarcasm or tongue in cheek lol. Little doubt.

Well I hope so, I've not hard of a soul intending to do so if not live nor of anyone who will cover it in the manner Nate, and now his associates while he is gone, do with tweets throughout each day of all going on.

in fact how many have attended hearings or are they not allowed to? I know there is "after" coverage but I'm talking live tweeted updates continually.
 
If the D hadn't spent all their time on a ridiculous SODDI defence and leaking CS photographs, maybe they wouldn't be so behind. That whole fiasco cost them some time and they had to return all the discovery IIRC.

Does anyone know how these guys came to represent RA in the first place? Did his wife find them or a friend recommend them? Anyone know?
Hon. Special Judge Frances Gull appointed RA a public defender team of her choosing after RA penned a letter declaring indigency and asking the CC Court to assign him a PD. jmho

Richard Allen asks Carroll Circuit Court for public defender
 
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Ok managed to read some of it on Reddit. Could it be the suicidee RF? ( mentioned in para 13 )

So they want everything on Libby's phone thrown out, basically because they haven't had time to read all the discovery or been able to access all the discovery. And they are blaming it all on NM.

Not going to happen.

Now we know why they requested speedy trial.
oh that's a wild guess (the photo)

Agree, that's not going to happen - All of Libby's phone evidence would NOT be thrown out.

Likely one important purpose of the D's latest long list of pathologically late discovery is for the record.

Gull may/may not give consideration to the use of the enlargements since the D was not provided with the software necessary to understand the enlargement process, including the parts of the enlargement that (apparently) deleted sections of the original video.

JMHO
 
This article pretty much explains what has been going on.

https://www.carrollcountycomet.com/...tps://www.carrollcountycomet.com/'][/CENTER]


Wednesday, April 24, 2024

April 03, 2024

By Amy Graham-McCarty
amy@hurdmedia.com

McLeland: Defense shows ‘Blatant dishonesty’ to Court

April 03, 2024


MCLELAND

MCLELAND

Carroll County Prosecutor Nick McLeland says a press release Richard Allen’s attorneys distributed in December 2022 was just a preview of future content and “blatant dishonesty” shown to the court.
On October 18, 2022, Allen was charged with two counts of felony murder, murder that occurred while in the commission of a felony like kidnapping, in the deaths of Abigail Williams and Liberty German. On March 18, two additional counts of murder were added when Special Judge Fran Gull ruled in favor of the State for amended charges against Allen. German and Williams went missing on Feb. 13, 2017, while on a hike at the Monon High Bridge Trail. Their bodies were found the next day not far from where they had been hiking.
McLeland filed the State’s Memorandum in Support of the Contemptuous Conduct on Monday, April 1. The defense filed its response on March 25.
“The deception to the Court began in November of 2022 when both Brad Rozzi and Andrew Baldwin told the Court that a ‘Gag’ order was not necessary because they had no intentions to talk to the media about this case,” McLeland wrote in the filing. “Within a week, both Brad Rozzi and Andrew Baldwin published a press release to media outlets. Brad Rozzi testified at the contempt proceedings that this was to curry favor with his client. It is clear that the press release was to curry favor with the public. Although it was not a violation of any ‘Gag’ order, it was a preview into future contempt shown to the Court by showing blatant dishonesty.”


ALLEN

ALLEN

McLeland said the indiscretions continued with an email from Andrew Baldwin to Brandon Woodhouse, a Rossville resident. The email released information from discovery to Woodhouse, who was not connected with the case in any way. Woodhouse then disseminated the information by “putting it on the internet for the world to consume,” McLeland wrote.
“While the content in that email may not be egregious to the Court, the fact that Andrew Baldwin and Brad Rozzi hid their error from the Court until it was found by the State, is egregious, showing yet another example of the Defense deceiving the Court,” the filing states.
The final contemptuous behavior McLeland noted was the leak of crime scene photos and other discovery protected by the Gag and Protective Order.
“The State admitted screen shots (sic) of text messages between Mark Cohen and Robert Fortson, neither of which are involved in this case in any way, nor are they employees or team members of anyone involved in this case. While these screenshots are voluminous, they paint a clear picture,” McLeland wrote in the filing. “Robert Fortson speaks about information that is only privy to the Defense. Robert Fortson talks about it within days of the Defense receiving discovery from the State. Robert Fortson has copies of the crime scene photos, he knows when (sic) Defense is working on certain aspects of the case, and he knows about the oral interview with Professor Turco three days after the recorded statement is turned over to the Defense.
“The Defense states that Mitch Westerman broke into their office and stole the pictures and then released them to Robert Fortson. It is clear from the messages between Mark Cohen and Robert Fortson that Robert Fortson received the crime scene photos and other discovery from Mitch Westerman. It is also clear that Mitch Westerman was feeding Robert Fortson several other pieces of discovery all the way up until October 2, 2023. The leak was recurring. It is also clear from the text messages between Mark Cohen and Robert Fortson that the strategy to leaking the information is to gauge the public opinion of the leaked information.”
Cohen has been identified in court records as an individual who allegedly distributed the crime scene photos to podcasters.
McLeland stated that the alleged leaking of the photos and other discovery by the Defense, he believes, was an effort by the Defense to determine what strategy to take based on the public’s response to the information.
“The screenshots from the iCloud account of Mitch Westerman. The screenshots are of text messages between Mitch Westerman and ‘Andy.’ Again, the messages are voluminous but if the Court will read through them, the Court will clearly see that ‘Andy’ is Andrew Baldwin,” McLeland said of evidence presented during the contempt hearing. “In the text, ‘Andy’ talks about writing the Franks’ memo and how it is a huge endeavor on his part. In other messages, ‘Andy’ encourages Mitch Westerman to reach out to the media and push their narrative. ‘Andy’ further states that he has already been in touch with Dateline and spoke to them. All of this is a violation of the ‘Gag’ order by Andrew Baldwin and the Defense.
McLeland stated in his response that the Defense claimed to the Court previously that Westerman “stole” the photos from their office, however, at the March 18 hearing, the prosecutor says the Defense implied that Westerman was “now a consultant of the Defense and any communications between Mitch Westerman and Andrew Baldwin should be considered work product.”
“The Defense has consistently altered Mitch Westerman’s involvement in this case,” McLeland wrote in his response. “Why didn’t the Defense make the Court and the State aware on the October 10, 2023 phone call that Mitch Westerman was a consultant and that he had access to discovery? It is the State’s belief that the Defense was trying to conceal or diminish Mitch Westerman’s role in the leak … The Defense intentionally violated the Court’s orders and leaked discovery information in an effort to push their narrative out to the public to gauge public response. This was a strategic move by the Defense in violation of the Court’s orders.”
McLeland says the crime scene photos continue to “cause havoc across the internet and revictimize the families of those involved.”
“As recently as March 28, 2024, a YouTuber posted the leaked crime scene pictures on his channel to the public and ultimately to the world. That You- Tube video made it back to the family retraumatizing them,” he said. “It has become known that the YouTuber forwarded the pictures on to other You- Tubers and they continue to be posted on the World Wide Web. Despite the State and investigators spending countless hours trying to track down all the various outlets the pictures and discovery were leaked to, the damage done by the leaked crime scene photos seems to be ongoing.”
In concluding his filing, McLeland asked the Court to find Baldwin and Rozzi in indirect contempt.
“The allegations here by the State are that Andrew Baldwin and Brad Rozzi willfully disobeyed a lawful order of the court after they were served with it,” he wrote.
Special Judge Fran Gull now has 30 days to rule on the matter of the contempt motion, which was filed in January.

This "Article" covers only the P's final filing as to the Contempt matter? Wonder where Hennessy's final filing is? Or the hearing reporting?

Good reminder here though: May 1st seems to be the due date for Judge Gull's decision on the Contempt matter. JMHO
 
Actually, at the end of my posts is a JMHO.

Doesn't matter.

KA irrelevant other than she went to ISP in one car w/ RA so each of them could drive a car back home.

It depends on a custodial interrogation.

KA = Irrelevant.

Irrelevant.

I've lost track of what irrelevant thing you're doubting.

Generally, I comment/observe (and/or opinion) re new or established facts and filings and relevant links. JMHO every post. (Might have a rare slip here or there.)
I'm not responsible for others' reading comprehension and/or cognitive bias.

Oh! Sometimes I type MOO. Or IMO, and so on. :cowcouch:


Link, please.

AND as a jury impersonator, I'm a member of the presumption of innocence cult.

1/2 price salmon on fish Fridays?

Yes. Everyone knows stuff others don't know - pretty sure that is it.
Hang on, let me check in with the Greco-Romans as to the premise of a forum ...

(Turns out - Yes. That's the premise of a forum. )


I'm sure you're exaggerating.

False. I'm responding to a post that attacks, accuses, presumes and does not wonder in the least.

GWYNETH !!!!!!

A murder trial is not a pet ... and ... link please.

Pffffffffttttttt

Are you a middle school mean girl? Still?

Well then, in all seriousness, it comes from running docket entries through my good old processor process.


Who?

Can't help you.

JMHO
I think your replies are a waste of time really. Especially if you want to be taken seriously.
 
This "Article" covers only the P's final filing as to the Contempt matter? Wonder where Hennessy's final filing is? Or the hearing reporting?

Good reminder here though: May 1st seems to be the due date for Judge Gull's decision on the Contempt matter. JMHO
I couldnt care less about D filings as they are just a bunch of bull. I agree that RA deserves a better bunch than them.

Yep, 1 May and 13 May the speedy trial date. I don't think the D will be going anywhere but probably a whopping big fine which they can use the GFM funds for with luck.
 
This "Article" covers only the P's final filing as to the Contempt matter? Wonder where Hennessy's final filing is? Or the hearing reporting?

Good reminder here though: May 1st seems to be the due date for Judge Gull's decision on the Contempt matter. JMHO
Like I say, I don't want to waste my time on the D stuff anymore.
 
Cara Wieneke (RA's) Appellate attorney repping him at SCOIN) explains the potential law enforcement fallout from the Click subpoena; if allegations are true.

 
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