LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

1581272168478.png

Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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Looking at these latest filings - so much evidence to argue in/out over. Have seen no schedule for pre-trial hearings on this evidence ... maybe they do have one ... hope they have one. l get the feeling - due to time limits - there will likely need to be breaks for hearings/rulings on evidence and witnesses after the jury has been seated. The RA jury might have some very long breaks ...

From the 3 motions, lots to take in but a few things to mention quickly from the road:
  • It is surprising that there still is no chain of custody on the crime scene bullet casing or the sticks. (D filing)
  • The shell game over the confessions between both parties continues. That's a lot of prison-related witnesses ... 16 + 8, IIRC. (P Response filing)
  • And the P has decided to challenge a 20 Rushville LE's credibility ... even publicly accuse him of Brady violation(s) ... which is something we'd expect from D's but not from P's. One would think that McL was able to contact the Cass County (Rushville) PA office to ask this specific question in advance. Anyway, of the 3 filings ... that one ... the shortest one ... was the doozie. (Click filing)

JMHO
 

DELPHI, Ind. — Special Judge Frances Gull denied three news outlets' requests to video and audio record Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen's trial next month.

Gull issued three orders Tuesday that were published online Wednesday afternoon denying requests to record the trial. The denied requests were from News Media Coalition, an Indy TV station and a South Bend TV station. Earlier in the month, Gull denied another Indy TV station.

Gull allowed cameras into the courtroom for the Oct. 19, 2023, hearing, but her order specifically limited the recording to just the hearing. It banned any recording of attorney-client communications or bench conferences.

Judge Frances Gull speaks at the Oct. 19 hearing of accused Delphi killer Richard Allen.

Judge Frances Gull speaks at the Oct. 19 hearing of accused Delphi killer Richard Allen.
"The Court has determined that allowing recording of the October 19, 2023, hearing is permitted provided that the means of recording will not distract the participants or impair the dignity of the proceedings, and the hearing itself is a non-confidential proceeding," Gull wrote in her Oct. 17 order.

However, the recordings published from that hearing included clips filmed before and after the hearing and aired by various news outlets.

Gull has denied each media request to record hearings and the trial wiithout explanation since the Oct. 19 hearing.

Indiana traditionally has not allowed recordings or photography in its courtrooms.

Starting May 1, 2023, the Indiana Supreme Court gave judges discretion to allow media to video and audio record, as well as take still photographs, in the courtroom. However, media must request advance permission for the hearing and/or trial, and the judge may deny the request.

In December 2021, the Indiana Supreme Court started a four-month pilot project to test recording in courtrooms.

Gull and her Allen County courtroom were part of that pilot project.
 
It is a P article explaining the contempt.
It's the P's summary, replying to Hennessy's summary ... without reporting on Hennessey's summary. (With respect, I'll continue to consider/discuss both parties' motions ... no surprise to anyone.)

I'll note that Hennessey's arguments (and the hearing process in general) were effective; in this summary, the P shrunk his issues, and changed his original definition of the contempt to "unique" rather than to define it as criminal or even civil, and the P withdrew his sanctions demands by leaving any possible sanctions up to Gull. There is no "unique contempt" category, so we'll have to see what Gull does with that.

IMO, this was a wise capitulation for the P to make given it is Judge Gull with the SCOIN spotlight on her with regard to this particular contempt issue, and this speedy trial ...

JMHO
 
The post they are quoting is unavailable so not sure where this was going
Yes, the original post was just the news that the Prosecution has filed a Subpoena for Brady records on Click. I don't know why the quoted tweet was removed? Cara was commenting on this particular filing yesterday.

As mentioned, I think Cara's point is super interesting: Prosecutors have to disclose Brady violations of any potential LE witnesses - to all Defendants. If Click had a Brady violation ... and it was not disclosed to all other Defendants that Click served as the witness of their crime for in Rushville ... then Rush County (Rushville) Prosecutor has a big mess on their hands. This is the equivalent of blue on blue and prosecutor on prosecutor discrediting. (I'm a dummy about Brady ... would not have caught the nuance without Cara's tweet.)

JMHO
 
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Yes, the original post was just the news that the Prosecution has filed a Subpoena for Brady records on Click. I don't know why the quoted tweet was removed? Cara was commenting on this particular filing yesterday.

As mentioned, I think Cara's point is super interesting: Prosecutors have to disclose Brady violations of any potential LE witnesses - to all Defendants. If Click had a Brady violation ... and it was not disclosed to all other Defendants that Click served as the witness of their crime for in Rushville ... then Rush County (Rushville) Prosecutor has a big mess on their hands. This is the equivalent of blue on blue and prosecutor on prosecutor discrediting. (I'm a dummy about Brady ... would not have caught the nuance without Cara's tweet.)

JMHO
Gotcha! I was just lost
 
Don't have time to delve into this right now but number 14 seems to show that the state is definitely effing with the defense. They definitely have some 'splainin to do.
I took a quick look. Messing with in what way? Illegally? And is there evidence what defense says is true? Because I haven't found them that way thus far.

I liked the part where they said only because someone went through it page by page would this have been realized. So is that saying either side does not go through anything page by page or they think they shouldn't have to? Is anyone kidding me? Even if not intentional, one side may have missed something your team picks up on.

There's always stuff in their filings that kind of shows they aren't doing their job either.

In Morphew that absolutely crooked defense firm so highly lauded complained they coudln't open or access files because they did not have the program or whatever. Seriously? This is private defense and big monied firm, pay someone to open this program you don't understand that you don't have and you probably don't do any of the other programs either, your staff does.

It isn't the job of prosecution or for that matter of DEFENSE who is ALSO to provide their discovery to do this work for the other party.

They do what they can to each other within legal bounds in many a case.

Not always intentionally. A high powered Denver bragged on firm connected (gag) with all them money I'd think they could have can't get a tech expert to open files? And a small county like Chaffe has the same money, resources or help? Talking Morphew here.

I don't disagree with some of this but NONE of it is even determined as truth. It is again ALL the defense. And yes they should darned well be going through every single page of discovery if representing their client and they act like it was some accident that they put someone on to do that. THAT is their problem throughout. THey don't look at sh*t even before they dump it on their "client".

Lol. Good to see you back active on cases. Seriously.
 
Yes. So I thought that was a big coincidence.
Please forgive me, I'm lost and I probably am lost on my own post and what you are referring to. What was a big coincidence? I haven't even got to Daybell yet today. And sorry I forget. Probably something we agree on, I just am not sure specifically what you mean or I might have said.
 
If the D hadn't spent all their time on a ridiculous SODDI defence and leaking CS photographs, maybe they wouldn't be so behind. That whole fiasco cost them some time and they had to return all the discovery IIRC.

Does anyone know how these guys came to represent RA in the first place? Did his wife find them or a friend recommend them? Anyone know?
And they only did all that because they didn't see or do sh*t for their client and then with no one he confessed the truth and they KNEW how bad of a job they had done, NONE. And it has been **** like SODDI/FM before that weak claims until they figured out the last as to WHY he would do that when they dumped discovery on him they likely had not even went though. This is my belief and there is MUCH to support it and so easy to see.

No, they were public defenders. Wife did not find them or friend recommend. They still are public defenders. They are NOT private paid attorneys and never have been. I'll defer to the experts here either Diener appointed them or Gull or maybe IN has something where just the next ones come up or some such that are "qualfieid". I beg to differ on that one. I've seen like in GALs judges say they are the best one up in line for those that do that work. Guardian ad Litem like in a custody case. BUT NO RIck nor Kathy could have picked them. They were appointed. I could go on about what I think happened after they were as far as Rick and his reeling desperate wife and family. It's pretty obvious in all we've seen...
 
So didn't the D provide the discovery to RA last April and that is when he went mental and started eating the discovery and his excrement and confessed 5 times? So they have had it for at least a year haven't they?
Yep and confessed same day if I recall to wife and mom. D was so great to prepare him and go themselves or even one of them or even read it themselves before dumping It on him. Not. My OPINION, not stating as fact as some around here do.
 
This article pretty much explains what has been going on.

https://www.carrollcountycomet.com/...tps://www.carrollcountycomet.com/'][/CENTER]


Wednesday, April 24, 2024

April 03, 2024

By Amy Graham-McCarty
amy@hurdmedia.com

McLeland: Defense shows ‘Blatant dishonesty’ to Court

April 03, 2024


MCLELAND

MCLELAND

Carroll County Prosecutor Nick McLeland says a press release Richard Allen’s attorneys distributed in December 2022 was just a preview of future content and “blatant dishonesty” shown to the court.
On October 18, 2022, Allen was charged with two counts of felony murder, murder that occurred while in the commission of a felony like kidnapping, in the deaths of Abigail Williams and Liberty German. On March 18, two additional counts of murder were added when Special Judge Fran Gull ruled in favor of the State for amended charges against Allen. German and Williams went missing on Feb. 13, 2017, while on a hike at the Monon High Bridge Trail. Their bodies were found the next day not far from where they had been hiking.
McLeland filed the State’s Memorandum in Support of the Contemptuous Conduct on Monday, April 1. The defense filed its response on March 25.
“The deception to the Court began in November of 2022 when both Brad Rozzi and Andrew Baldwin told the Court that a ‘Gag’ order was not necessary because they had no intentions to talk to the media about this case,” McLeland wrote in the filing. “Within a week, both Brad Rozzi and Andrew Baldwin published a press release to media outlets. Brad Rozzi testified at the contempt proceedings that this was to curry favor with his client. It is clear that the press release was to curry favor with the public. Although it was not a violation of any ‘Gag’ order, it was a preview into future contempt shown to the Court by showing blatant dishonesty.”


ALLEN

ALLEN

McLeland said the indiscretions continued with an email from Andrew Baldwin to Brandon Woodhouse, a Rossville resident. The email released information from discovery to Woodhouse, who was not connected with the case in any way. Woodhouse then disseminated the information by “putting it on the internet for the world to consume,” McLeland wrote.
“While the content in that email may not be egregious to the Court, the fact that Andrew Baldwin and Brad Rozzi hid their error from the Court until it was found by the State, is egregious, showing yet another example of the Defense deceiving the Court,” the filing states.
The final contemptuous behavior McLeland noted was the leak of crime scene photos and other discovery protected by the Gag and Protective Order.
“The State admitted screen shots (sic) of text messages between Mark Cohen and Robert Fortson, neither of which are involved in this case in any way, nor are they employees or team members of anyone involved in this case. While these screenshots are voluminous, they paint a clear picture,” McLeland wrote in the filing. “Robert Fortson speaks about information that is only privy to the Defense. Robert Fortson talks about it within days of the Defense receiving discovery from the State. Robert Fortson has copies of the crime scene photos, he knows when (sic) Defense is working on certain aspects of the case, and he knows about the oral interview with Professor Turco three days after the recorded statement is turned over to the Defense.
“The Defense states that Mitch Westerman broke into their office and stole the pictures and then released them to Robert Fortson. It is clear from the messages between Mark Cohen and Robert Fortson that Robert Fortson received the crime scene photos and other discovery from Mitch Westerman. It is also clear that Mitch Westerman was feeding Robert Fortson several other pieces of discovery all the way up until October 2, 2023. The leak was recurring. It is also clear from the text messages between Mark Cohen and Robert Fortson that the strategy to leaking the information is to gauge the public opinion of the leaked information.”
Cohen has been identified in court records as an individual who allegedly distributed the crime scene photos to podcasters.
McLeland stated that the alleged leaking of the photos and other discovery by the Defense, he believes, was an effort by the Defense to determine what strategy to take based on the public’s response to the information.
“The screenshots from the iCloud account of Mitch Westerman. The screenshots are of text messages between Mitch Westerman and ‘Andy.’ Again, the messages are voluminous but if the Court will read through them, the Court will clearly see that ‘Andy’ is Andrew Baldwin,” McLeland said of evidence presented during the contempt hearing. “In the text, ‘Andy’ talks about writing the Franks’ memo and how it is a huge endeavor on his part. In other messages, ‘Andy’ encourages Mitch Westerman to reach out to the media and push their narrative. ‘Andy’ further states that he has already been in touch with Dateline and spoke to them. All of this is a violation of the ‘Gag’ order by Andrew Baldwin and the Defense.
McLeland stated in his response that the Defense claimed to the Court previously that Westerman “stole” the photos from their office, however, at the March 18 hearing, the prosecutor says the Defense implied that Westerman was “now a consultant of the Defense and any communications between Mitch Westerman and Andrew Baldwin should be considered work product.”
“The Defense has consistently altered Mitch Westerman’s involvement in this case,” McLeland wrote in his response. “Why didn’t the Defense make the Court and the State aware on the October 10, 2023 phone call that Mitch Westerman was a consultant and that he had access to discovery? It is the State’s belief that the Defense was trying to conceal or diminish Mitch Westerman’s role in the leak … The Defense intentionally violated the Court’s orders and leaked discovery information in an effort to push their narrative out to the public to gauge public response. This was a strategic move by the Defense in violation of the Court’s orders.”
McLeland says the crime scene photos continue to “cause havoc across the internet and revictimize the families of those involved.”
“As recently as March 28, 2024, a YouTuber posted the leaked crime scene pictures on his channel to the public and ultimately to the world. That You- Tube video made it back to the family retraumatizing them,” he said. “It has become known that the YouTuber forwarded the pictures on to other You- Tubers and they continue to be posted on the World Wide Web. Despite the State and investigators spending countless hours trying to track down all the various outlets the pictures and discovery were leaked to, the damage done by the leaked crime scene photos seems to be ongoing.”
In concluding his filing, McLeland asked the Court to find Baldwin and Rozzi in indirect contempt.
“The allegations here by the State are that Andrew Baldwin and Brad Rozzi willfully disobeyed a lawful order of the court after they were served with it,” he wrote.
Special Judge Fran Gull now has 30 days to rule on the matter of the contempt motion, which was filed in January.
Wow. Great post. You have a long one now that is relevant unlike some. Every bit of this is what logic would DICTATE to any of us before even knowing these other things. But we DID hear par tof the changing explanation of who and what MW was and did. LOGIC. LEAK ****. Logic.

I'd only differ with NM in one regard but he is just citing what can be or was said, etc. THey were not gauging or like practicing to see like some testing what the public would believe they were very to TAINT and change the COURSE and they almost did with the bunch in the chain that were happy as hell to have inside info and ran with it as they wanted. It has ALWAYS BEEN OBVOIUS.

I dont' see a single like to your post or reaction not that all do that here. Or that it means anyhing and I am in the midst of sometimes I do and dont' with no routeint to it as many don't. Maybe if I read on I will see responses lol.

Now this should all be disemminated.

If one goes back to when this all happened and after, didn't know these details but it was what LOGIC dictated. And they were not "testing" the public opinion, they were poisoning.

To each their own but how ANYONE cannot see what these two were doing and have been all along with so many examples, I fail to understand. LOGIC. Almost ALL have shut up on this case, well I WONDER WHY. THe very ones before that that were all over it with seemingly inside info etc. SILENT.

All I have to say is DUH.
 
Actually, at the end of my posts is a JMHO.

Doesn't matter.

KA irrelevant other than she went to ISP in one car w/ RA so each of them could drive a car back home.

It depends on a custodial interrogation.

KA = Irrelevant.

Irrelevant.

I've lost track of what irrelevant thing you're doubting.

Generally, I comment/observe (and/or opinion) re new or established facts and filings and relevant links. JMHO every post. (Might have a rare slip here or there.)
I'm not responsible for others' reading comprehension and/or cognitive bias.

Oh! Sometimes I type MOO. Or IMO, and so on. :cowcouch:


Link, please.

AND as a jury impersonator, I'm a member of the presumption of innocence cult.

1/2 price salmon on fish Fridays?

Yes. Everyone knows stuff others don't know - pretty sure that is it.
Hang on, let me check in with the Greco-Romans as to the premise of a forum ...

(Turns out - Yes. That's the premise of a forum. )


I'm sure you're exaggerating.

False. I'm responding to a post that attacks, accuses, presumes and does not wonder in the least.

GWYNETH !!!!!!

A murder trial is not a pet ... and ... link please.

Pffffffffttttttt

Are you a middle school mean girl? Still?

Well then, in all seriousness, it comes from running docket entries through my good old processor process.


Who?

Can't help you.

JMHO
I quit reading halfway down. I just came off reading @Tresir's post and then this was the next one I read and I couldn't switch gears from big sh*t to whatever the thing is here that fast.

And I don't MOO and never have when at JT either, I refused and though tit he stupidest thing ever.. It flies there though. It is a "THANG". I am okay with the cow couth here, and some other decent things that come in handy. So you can take my word for it or not I NEVER MOOED. And again thought it was flat out stupid. Not that some good people didn't MOO. Tits heavy ready to be milked or what? Never saw it before there and really hoped to never hear it again.

Lol. Forgive me I read about half. if that. Tired. Read the long one from Tresir on the contempt etc. and then saw yours. Been on others first and have not caught up. Hard to switch gears.

I will though and do call you out every time you put something it as fact that isn't. And no, you never MOO then.

And you very much state things as fact that are not and you try to insinuate things are decided or even the ISC had (had NOT) with every defense filing. Have you ever acknowledged any of that?

Now it is COERCED CONFESSION. Trying to make what you want thought and believed or spread FACT. And none of it is fact.

Peace. Have a good one.
 
Please forgive me, I'm lost and I probably am lost on my own post and what you are referring to. What was a big coincidence? I haven't even got to Daybell yet today. And sorry I forget. Probably something we agree on, I just am not sure specifically what you mean or I might have said.
The big coincidence that RA, Fortson and Westerman were military or ex military.

Also you said this, (see below) so I asked you what was your opinion of him (RA).

"And this is also totally off your points and sideways but I'll add that some of he excerpts from the interview and sh*t I did see now tells me a lot more about RA which confirmed the opinion I already hold of him."
 
And they only did all that because they didn't see or do sh*t for their client and then with no one he confessed the truth and they KNEW how bad of a job they had done, NONE. And it has been **** like SODDI/FM before that weak claims until they figured out the last as to WHY he would do that when they dumped discovery on him they likely had not even went though. This is my belief and there is MUCH to support it and so easy to see.

No, they were public defenders. Wife did not find them or friend recommend. They still are public defenders. They are NOT private paid attorneys and never have been. I'll defer to the experts here either Diener appointed them or Gull or maybe IN has something where just the next ones come up or some such that are "qualfieid". I beg to differ on that one. I've seen like in GALs judges say they are the best one up in line for those that do that work. Guardian ad Litem like in a custody case. BUT NO RIck nor Kathy could have picked them. They were appointed. I could go on about what I think happened after they were as far as Rick and his reeling desperate wife and family. It's pretty obvious in all we've seen...
Ok, I forgot that Diener probably appointed them - then recused himself, which is also odd. Then the sh!t with the leaks and them offering pro bono and then standing down and wanting back in. What a total fiasco it has been.
 
Wow. Great post. You have a long one now that is relevant unlike some. Every bit of this is what logic would DICTATE to any of us before even knowing these other things. But we DID hear par tof the changing explanation of who and what MW was and did. LOGIC. LEAK ****. Logic.

I'd only differ with NM in one regard but he is just citing what can be or was said, etc. THey were not gauging or like practicing to see like some testing what the public would believe they were very to TAINT and change the COURSE and they almost did with the bunch in the chain that were happy as hell to have inside info and ran with it as they wanted. It has ALWAYS BEEN OBVOIUS.

I dont' see a single like to your post or reaction not that all do that here. Or that it means anyhing and I am in the midst of sometimes I do and dont' with no routeint to it as many don't. Maybe if I read on I will see responses lol.

Now this should all be disemminated.

If one goes back to when this all happened and after, didn't know these details but it was what LOGIC dictated. And they were not "testing" the public opinion, they were poisoning.

To each their own but how ANYONE cannot see what these two were doing and have been all along with so many examples, I fail to understand. LOGIC. Almost ALL have shut up on this case, well I WONDER WHY. THe very ones before that that were all over it with seemingly inside info etc. SILENT.

All I have to say is DUH.
I think there is another gag order which is perhaps why they have shut up but not sure about that so take it as opinion.

I don't take much notice of likes - I don't do it, so I just assume it means some do it some don't or they do it to know they have read the post or whatever.

That article was from 3rd April, so is 3 weeks old and that is the first time I have seen it. I guess because it is a local publication.
 

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