LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *JURY WATCH*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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Worth watching. He has went through all 118 or whatever it is documents and picked out what is important, consolidated all, organized all and made it easier for all and covered it here with his take on it, plus he has a file you can access that is more concise and easier to follow.

 
Worth watching. He has went through all 118 or whatever it is documents and picked out what is important, consolidated all, organized all and made it easier for all and covered it here with his take on it, plus he has a file you can access that is more concise and easier to follow.



I haven't watched the video yet, but I have a sort of question:

This is how I thought it went down.

Kline was running the website using the fake picture.

Kline got the information to Allen.

Allen met the girls at the time Kline had arranged.

Allen murdered the girls.

Police traced Kline to the website and arrested him.

The police couldn't find out who acted on the information and Kline was stalling or didn't actually know who picked up the information online. The police identified a human trafficking line through Kline's computer. That's why they spent so long a time to sentence him. Eventually, the police got everything they could from Kline and decided to sentence him. That has been put on hold.

The police then focused in on Allen due to what? I don't know.

That's where it stands now.
 
I haven't watched the video yet, but I have a sort of question:

This is how I thought it went down.

Kline was running the website using the fake picture.

Kline got the information to Allen.

Allen met the girls at the time Kline had arranged.

Allen murdered the girls.

Police traced Kline to the website and arrested him.

The police couldn't find out who acted on the information and Kline was stalling or didn't actually know who picked up the information online. The police identified a human trafficking line through Kline's computer. That's why they spent so long a time to sentence him. Eventually, the police got everything they could from Kline and decided to sentence him. That has been put on hold.

The police then focused in on Allen due to what? I don't know.

That's where it stands now.
First, on the video, I did watch it but was getting ready for work and I want to rewatch it and really listen because I want to rehear a few things on the docs, etc. so I know them. He hits a point in the video he says he covered the newer and more significant things, he picked out I think the docs not in order that he thought of most import and then he went back to in order the ones he figured less important or things we already knew. It is worth continuing past that point because I still found things of interest very much but by that point I was more in a time crunch so wasn't listening as closely but it was still of interest to me big time.

Now to your post. You lay it out well in pretty much what I believe is a likely scenario and how Kline plays in. IF he plays in of course. You put it simply and clearly.

I think on the key part there are a lot of variables or questions. I think it is why there was so much about Kline's father, who used the dropbox, who had access to the account, etc. I think the key thing is did he know Allen, did he know Allen as a user of such, did he give Allen info knowingly, or was he part of it? Or was Allen just someone online or accessing child stuff and he knew the user name but not his real name?

Anyhow, cops put Kline together with the Shotz profile and the dropbox. Did they then go onto find other users and Allen or did Kline give them something that helped them turn back to Allen and then they realized boom he was someone early on in their investigation...? I just don't know either...

The thing I come back to is this was not some other pedo from say Utah, he was also from right there in Indiana... Kline wanted to meet Abby at the bridge and Allen showed up/was at the bridge. This is just too uncanny. It makes more sense to me that perhaps Allen was telling Kline who had contact with Abby to set up a meeting for HIM but she'd think it was Shotz (Kline)... He is directing him what to do or paying him to do so and get pics from him, etc. (if Abby had sent "Shotz" pics ). This hints of a chat room maybe in the dark web with a bunch like this or some ability to communicate whether they knew each other's real names or not...

The other possibility is like we and others have wondered is if there was a plan with all of them. Kline and Allen. Possibly Logan. Etc. Where they did all now each other and plan to truly participate in real life... Logan just can't be dismissed, I'm sorry, he is a distinct possibility.

But as to your question of how the cops came around to Allen, yeah, that is a big one. Not sure if I'll get time but I'd like to talk of that more later and thoughts on it.

I am though like you still very much on the thought that the entire Kline thing connects here somehow. I also have not dismissed others in this area and maybe some of status were in this "ring". I almost NEVER think that in a case but this one has enough that for one of the first time in a case, I think it a real possibility.
 
How did the cops settle on Allen? What others thoughts on this?
I'd like to think the cops put two and two together and saved themselves some pride, like Kline gave a description or screen name, OR they found some name connected to a chat and the drop box and then they thought of that guy from way back when who was AT the bridge and saw some possible connection and had an AHA moment but I doubt it somehow...

I doubt it a lot.

I don't think we ware going to know until this moves along or trial comes about but hopefully sooner...

To listen to them as we know it, they were going back over the case and all the stuff and found this misfiled or misplaced thing about Allen... Pretty hard to believe imo unless at that point they were sooo sure no local known man could have done it...

And then they did what they didn't back when and placed him there and no other possibility there per witnesses, etc. and then got a search warrant they should have long ago...

Bu that doesn't really fit it all either does it?

They had better have some logical explanation of how they came to him after all of this time...

I DO think there is a possibility Kline knew him and finally ratted... Maybe cops knew it was likely him but couldn't get enough corroboration... There is also the possibility someone in Allen's life or circle came to realize something and reported it or ratted him out or found something.... Daughter, co workers, bar buddy, parents, anyone....

I don't know. I want to know too but again they better have a trail and a reason for the warrant and more. It is likely they could have gotten a warrant back when though just based on him placing himself there...

COULD they have always felt he was their man but just didn't feel they had enough???

And even that looking at Allen led to Kline instead of the other way around? I don't think so but who knows...

As you said and we have heard, they just didn't know WHO with the pedo ring/dropbox, etc...
 
I'd like to think the cops put two and two together and saved themselves some pride, like Kline gave a description or screen name, OR they found some name connected to a chat and the drop box and then they thought of that guy from way back when who was AT the bridge and saw some possible connection and had an AHA moment but I doubt it somehow...

I doubt it a lot.

I don't think we ware going to know until this moves along or trial comes about but hopefully sooner...

To listen to them as we know it, they were going back over the case and all the stuff and found this misfiled or misplaced thing about Allen... Pretty hard to believe imo unless at that point they were sooo sure no local known man could have done it...

And then they did what they didn't back when and placed him there and no other possibility there per witnesses, etc. and then got a search warrant they should have long ago...

Bu that doesn't really fit it all either does it?

They had better have some logical explanation of how they came to him after all of this time...

I DO think there is a possibility Kline knew him and finally ratted... Maybe cops knew it was likely him but couldn't get enough corroboration... There is also the possibility someone in Allen's life or circle came to realize something and reported it or ratted him out or found something.... Daughter, co workers, bar buddy, parents, anyone....

I don't know. I want to know too but again they better have a trail and a reason for the warrant and more. It is likely they could have gotten a warrant back when though just based on him placing himself there...

COULD they have always felt he was their man but just didn't feel they had enough???

And even that looking at Allen led to Kline instead of the other way around? I don't think so but who knows...

As you said and we have heard, they just didn't know WHO with the pedo ring/dropbox, etc...
I am pretty sure they looked at Kline very early on. The early search in Canal Street, Peru was him, I think. I think the warning about 'watch what your kids are up to' , was also about him.

I think Kline finally gave up Allen to save his own skin - weren't some charges dropped?

Didn't RA live and work in Peru prior to Delphi?

Here is an article about the search and a copy of the actual search warrant from Feb 2017. Plus a couple of additional links that among other things, explain KK failed a lie detector when he was asked if he knew RA. Even though RA lived just down the street from them in Peru, KK originally said he didn't know him.

WISH-TV
https://www.wishtv.com › news › fb...

FBI searches Peru home in relation to Delphi double homicide
25 Feb 2017 — According to FBI Supervisory Special Agent Bob Ramsey, bureau investigators executed a search warrant at a home on Canal Street.


https://www.wishtv.com › Ke...
PDF
Kegan Anthony Kline
Canal Street, Peru, Indiana 46970 ... On February 25, 2017 at approximately 12:30 PM EST, the search warrant was executed on the



 
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I am pretty sure they looked at Kline very early on. The early search in Canal Street, Peru was him, I think. I think the warning about 'watch what your kids are up to' , was also about him.

I think Kline finally gave up Allen to save his own skin - weren't some charges dropped?

Didn't RA live and work in Peru prior to Delphi?

Here is an article about the search and a copy of the actual search warrant from Feb 2017. Plus a couple of additional links that among other things, explain KK failed a lie detector when he was asked if he knew RA. Even though RA lived just down the street from them in Peru, KK originally said he didn't know him.

WISH-TV
https://www.wishtv.com › news › fb...

FBI searches Peru home in relation to Delphi double homicide
25 Feb 2017 — According to FBI Supervisory Special Agent Bob Ramsey, bureau investigators executed a search warrant at a home on Canal Street.


https://www.wishtv.com › Ke...
PDF
Kegan Anthony Kline
Canal Street, Peru, Indiana 46970 ... On February 25, 2017 at approximately 12:30 PM EST, the search warrant was executed on the



You know, that all makes perfect sense. I don't have time to go into all the links right now unfortunately and wish I did. And yes, pretty sure I recall him having some charges dropped but they acted as if there was some other reason for it, I forget what. I also recall thinking with all the charges against him, while it was a few, it hardly makes a dent in what he was still facing.

I don't know that I knew he failed a polygraph about knowing Allen. And if he knew Allen, that's an entirely different picture of things than if he just used the drop box or saw the plans of the girls or talk of meeting with Kline or was told of them. I myself have always thought there was a very good chance they knew each other and that Kline's dad did as well, etc. and that even possibly there was a plan for the girls involving both or all of them.

It all just fits and always has and more so with what you've provided here, even more so. It is too hard to ignore and cops have not come out and said flat out there is no connection between Allen and Kline either have they? To stop the speculation they have to be fully aware of.

I do think there is a ring or group here at least on some level and I've never thought that in any case that I can recall and would likely usually resist such. I don't know that the murder of A & L was some group plan or not but I sure think it could have been or went awry. I think there are too many fish references in this whole thing. Clearly catfishing was going on. Allen was watching the fish or whatever when asked why he was on the bridge if I recall. Logan was in town buying fish. was his story...

I go back and forth on it all, but Logan for one too. However I just come back and settle on that too is just too uncanny. Yeah unfortunately his property is right there which adds to it and that is just something that can't be helped but it as well as Allen's knowledge of the bridge--and did he or did he not know Logan, it seems not BUT not so sure....

The river search and Kline. All the hubbub about him just before this arrest. I think he likely thought and fought for thinking he wasn't giving anything up unless they let him go which wasn't going to happen. I think he was trying to "deal" and wanted more and wasn't getting enough in his opinion to give them the info they wanted. I think that is what we were seeing even right up to recently where wasn't he going to withdraw his plea or some such. And then didn't... He was trying to pressure, play it for all it was worth in attempts for his freedom or at least more of a deal right up to the end. Imo.

If Kline was someone never having a connection to the area, to Libby, to anything but just someone in IN we thought could connect to this it would be one thing BUT that isn't the case. He communicated with Libby, lived in the same areas as Allen at times, had breaking news on him and plenty of it all around the time before this arrest, had charges dropped and still came up after this arrest with news he wanted to chance his plea or some such, etc. It's just all too much to think there isn't something there.

Now could we still be wrong? Of course. But it's all entirely logical and comes together to make more sense than anything and especially with adding what you note here.

The hard part is all these years passed. Did they really drop the ball? Apparently so. Did it heat up maybe when Kline, realizing as time went on that he is not getting out, tried to dangle or play the card about Richard Allen and he "reached out"...

I don't even know that I think he was trying to protect Allen or was resistant to being a snitch so much as how it would implicate him and what he was really doing and so kept his mouth shut. Maybe. I mean there could have been some "loyalty" code amongst such a dark type of group of pedos. I think more likely though they have no such loyalty and it is that they are protecting themselves and of course he was facing a long time in prison. I remember in his interview by LE or interrogation, he would NOT admit to too young, at best he'd say he thought they all were at least teens and he always tried to make it mid teens when faced with evidence many of them were no such thing, he stuck to that... If I recall, at first he wouldn't even go there but the longer in, he'd always make them mid teens or older and I think he figured that would be more defenisible plus didn't want to be known as a young child pedo for obvious reasons.

He also resisted the Abby and Libby thing even when faced with communications. Of course Abby and Libby are a MURDER. He has no murder charges and no murders committed that we KNOW OF. But then neither did Allen...

I think other than a plan going awry, there is one last possibility, maybe two and that's that Allen went rogue. Had his own fantasies and took an arranged meeting (even though the day was one off I think it still may have been) and did his own thing with it. Or there was another plan as I said earlier and it went awry, a plan that included one or more of the others in this sick group.
 
You know, that all makes perfect sense. I don't have time to go into all the links right now unfortunately and wish I did. And yes, pretty sure I recall him having some charges dropped but they acted as if there was some other reason for it, I forget what. I also recall thinking with all the charges against him, while it was a few, it hardly makes a dent in what he was still facing.

I don't know that I knew he failed a polygraph about knowing Allen. And if he knew Allen, that's an entirely different picture of things than if he just used the drop box or saw the plans of the girls or talk of meeting with Kline or was told of them. I myself have always thought there was a very good chance they knew each other and that Kline's dad did as well, etc. and that even possibly there was a plan for the girls involving both or all of them.

It all just fits and always has and more so with what you've provided here, even more so. It is too hard to ignore and cops have not come out and said flat out there is no connection between Allen and Kline either have they? To stop the speculation they have to be fully aware of.

I do think there is a ring or group here at least on some level and I've never thought that in any case that I can recall and would likely usually resist such. I don't know that the murder of A & L was some group plan or not but I sure think it could have been or went awry. I think there are too many fish references in this whole thing. Clearly catfishing was going on. Allen was watching the fish or whatever when asked why he was on the bridge if I recall. Logan was in town buying fish. was his story...

I go back and forth on it all, but Logan for one too. However I just come back and settle on that too is just too uncanny. Yeah unfortunately his property is right there which adds to it and that is just something that can't be helped but it as well as Allen's knowledge of the bridge--and did he or did he not know Logan, it seems not BUT not so sure....

The river search and Kline. All the hubbub about him just before this arrest. I think he likely thought and fought for thinking he wasn't giving anything up unless they let him go which wasn't going to happen. I think he was trying to "deal" and wanted more and wasn't getting enough in his opinion to give them the info they wanted. I think that is what we were seeing even right up to recently where wasn't he going to withdraw his plea or some such. And then didn't... He was trying to pressure, play it for all it was worth in attempts for his freedom or at least more of a deal right up to the end. Imo.

If Kline was someone never having a connection to the area, to Libby, to anything but just someone in IN we thought could connect to this it would be one thing BUT that isn't the case. He communicated with Libby, lived in the same areas as Allen at times, had breaking news on him and plenty of it all around the time before this arrest, had charges dropped and still came up after this arrest with news he wanted to chance his plea or some such, etc. It's just all too much to think there isn't something there.

Now could we still be wrong? Of course. But it's all entirely logical and comes together to make more sense than anything and especially with adding what you note here.

The hard part is all these years passed. Did they really drop the ball? Apparently so. Did it heat up maybe when Kline, realizing as time went on that he is not getting out, tried to dangle or play the card about Richard Allen and he "reached out"...

I don't even know that I think he was trying to protect Allen or was resistant to being a snitch so much as how it would implicate him and what he was really doing and so kept his mouth shut. Maybe. I mean there could have been some "loyalty" code amongst such a dark type of group of pedos. I think more likely though they have no such loyalty and it is that they are protecting themselves and of course he was facing a long time in prison. I remember in his interview by LE or interrogation, he would NOT admit to too young, at best he'd say he thought they all were at least teens and he always tried to make it mid teens when faced with evidence many of them were no such thing, he stuck to that... If I recall, at first he wouldn't even go there but the longer in, he'd always make them mid teens or older and I think he figured that would be more defenisible plus didn't want to be known as a young child pedo for obvious reasons.

He also resisted the Abby and Libby thing even when faced with communications. Of course Abby and Libby are a MURDER. He has no murder charges and no murders committed that we KNOW OF. But then neither did Allen...

I think other than a plan going awry, there is one last possibility, maybe two and that's that Allen went rogue. Had his own fantasies and took an arranged meeting (even though the day was one off I think it still may have been) and did his own thing with it. Or there was another plan as I said earlier and it went awry, a plan that included one or more of the others in this sick group.
This is exactly correct what you are saying. I think there is definitely a connection and they are still looking at the other connections. It could even be that RA pleads guilty and drops a lot of other names to try and get a lesser sentence. You give a whole other meaning to "watching the fish" - I could not have imagined the fish he was watching were the girls on the bridge that day. But you are right about the fish references. I am wondering if RA even took photographs at the scene or had an accomplice who met him there.
 
Wow, thank you, I don't know if I've ever been told I'm exactly right in my lifetime! Such almost brings tears. I don't know that I am right but in this case, none of this is farfetched, in fact it fits the best and better than anything else...

Yeah, if you stop and think of what makes more sense as to his remark of "watching the fish" uhm, the girls make a lot more sense. And I think every one should stop/pause and realize what a sly remark that is and what that says about this man. Anytime anyone starts to feel a bit of sympathy, believes he is suffering in custody, etc., they need to think of this slyness AND just what he did to these girls.

Additionally, I've always thought it a very strange remark too that Logan "went to town for fish". An older man going to town for fish. Oh it's been explained away but it still never sat right with me. I never thought with him of this connotation though BECAUSE we did not know of Kline at the time and the investigators throughout these years basically said the case had no online connection activity, etc. and I think they even said that had been ruled out, right up to when we first heard about the Anthony Shotz thing we were told that.

You notice investigators in this case won't come out and say flat out there is no Kline connection nor pedo ring, etc. And they could if not true and they definitely are aware of online speculation. They also won't do it with Logan. And I mean FLAT OUT denying it and putting it to rest. They are the very ones that brought out the pedo ring thought and apparent fact or thought there was one.

I think the way pictures play into this too, drop box to share such things, etc., his job which entailed photo development etc. your thought of his taking pictures is a distinct possibility. Of course the time frame may not have allowed such it is hard to say. The girls were being looked for before very long BUT he did stage them or something on that order and so pictures are definitely a likelihood or not a hard concept to believe.

Serial killers, ritual killers, etc. in the past didn't have the advent of the picture taking cell phone. Of course mementos are a thing, creating a scene and staging for them to bring to memory, etc. So yeah, pictures are a definite possibility I think.

I also agree on the possibility of someone meeting him there or lying in wait even. I also am not convinced these girls died within a hour or so. There is NOTHING that convinces me of that. It is likely but I am not convinced. There are a few reasons I could entertain that BUT I don't necessarily lean to it. Someone meeting him or being in on it though yeah I can entertain but I also can believe he went rogue or was given the info or came across the info of the girls and the meeting, etc.

All of it i speculation but based on what we have seen in the investigation and leads to an apparent connection to Kline and a pedo thing, etc. I don't know if we will ever know if it is the truth though. Either it is all being kept under seal and will come out as time goes on and he is tried OR we will never know for sure one way or the other...

To go ONE step further, these few are likely not the only ones in this pedo ring, drop box scenario and in this area. I find it hard to ignore they are from the same area... Kline and Allen and quite possibly Logan. WHO are the others or are we to believe that's it...?

Just speculating but in this case, imo, none of these thoughts are far fetched. In other cases, I'd think they would be but the indicators are here in this one.

As I said too though, there is the possibility Allen went rogue. You know how in a burglary say by teens, one teen goes along as the driver, another goes in to help rob but the third one kills the home's occupants and the others weren't on board for that? It could well be Kline, etc. were fully on board and doing the pedo thing and would have even met them or raped them but they had no thoughts of murder.... But Allen did.

To come back around full circle, he seems like some simple minded dufus who drank beer at the local pub and was not anyone who stood out BUT that watching the fish remark....? Not so sure... I don't think he is some brilliant mastermind but from the start he admitted to being there and more. Did he play the cops or is it more likely this info got buried for a reason... Who else is involved or could be just in this group if not with the murder itself... I can't rule that out either... Again like I said, I doubt this group or the dropbox consisted of like only Kline and Allen and maybe Kline's dad. I don't think that really fits what authorities would refer to as a "ring".

Jmo.
 
We have to get used to the possibility we may never know the answers if he pleads guilty.

Re the time of death of the girls, there was some speculation very early on about that IIRC. Something about the date of death for one of the girls being the day after they disappeared.
Well not so sure about that. I mean all things will be discoverable and attainable at that point to even the average citizen. I also don't see him pleading guilty. You mean Allen right? Not Kline? Kline has also hinted he will talk AFTER he is sentenced or maybe it was after Delphi concludes, I can't recall. Of course one can't take his word for anything and he could change his mind.

Yeah, I have to say I am one who does not exclude the time of death differing. I can't. The girls weren't found until the next day. I think I remember something about Libby's phone pinging all over town or some such too and I think grandpa may have said it, a bit foggy on who... It was assumed or speculated they were out and about when they should have not been. At some point that was explained away but I've never forgotten it. They also said they ruled OUT any online thing, etc. (that was LE that said). I think they very welll could have been taken somewhere and even to Logan's, etc. However, that also doesn't really fit with the witness who saw the was it bloody or muddy guy walking...

The window of time is sooo short from when he took them "down the hill" to when they were looking for them. IF more than one person was involved in the sense they were present, I think it is a very real possibility the time of death is wrong.

Another question, did he shower, etc. hide whatever and go back and JOIN the search? Either that afternoon/night or the next day? Did his wife or daughter?
 
KK has already pled guilty. His sentencing is today but I am having big problems with my Google searching not wanting to pull up any of the results of my searches so although the results all show his sentencing begins at 9a.m. Indiana time, I cannot pull up the articles directly. I'll try a screenshot.Screenshot_20230727-154442_Google.jpg
 
I'm not a Twitter person but clicked into both of the above and unable to see anything other than what is shared.

Can anyone else? But not good in navigating in it, but am used to seeing comments below and a trail of tweets etc. the rare time I follow a link to Twitter.

I would imagine this will hit YT, I don't rely on mainstream media.

Still ongoing then? Or finished.

I've had a really BIG day that isn't over yet. Am off today but dealing with some huge things but have a moment in between awaiting answers to check in here and there.
 

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