FL MADELINE SOTO: Missing from Orlando, FL - 26 Feb 2024 - Age 13 *Found Deceased*

Madeline Soto missing: Florida mom begs for daughter's safe return home

A mother in Orange County is begging for help locating her missing daughter.

www.fox35orlando.com

Madeline Soto missing: Florida mom begs for daughter's safe return home​

A mother in Orange County is begging for help locating her missing daughter.

Madeline ‘Maddie’ Soto was last seen on Monday, one day after she and her family celebrated her 13th birthday. Maddie’s mother, Jenn Soto, said surveillance video shows Maddie hanging out in a church parking lot on February 26 after being dropped off for school, but she never made it inside.

"I’m trying to hope for the best, but I’m scared for her," said Jenn Soto. "I want her to be okay; I want her to be safe… I don’t want her to come back harmed. I just want her back – whatever that means, I just want her back."

Jenn Soto said sheriff’s deputies are using K9s and a piece of Maddie’s clothing to try to track her scent near Town Loop Boulevard.

According to Jenn Soto, Maddie had never run away before. She said the teen had forgotten her cell phone at home that morning, but that was normal.

As of Wednesday morning, a variety of search teams are out searching for Maddie.


MEDIA - MADELINE SOTO: Missing from Orlando, FL - 26 Feb 2024 - Age 13

 

[GrandmaBear]

Yeah, see what I mean? That isn't the same article I'd read but the info comes across as though there's only one trial.
Anyway, I think consider myself to have a reasonable amount of patience but in cases where it's delay after delay after delay it's run out!
Seriously, what I see more and more often is that pretrial this and that mostly amounts to nothing but bs from a defense with a guilty client.

Totally agree and this one hasn't even been years on end yet, only less than six months. I make a point in cases with delay after delays to point them out and bit*h about it.

It's sickening and disgusting. I'm normally patient too but not when it comes to repeated delays with justice. I also agree it's generally when it's a guilty client who won't admit guilt and it's all delay, delay, delay, often over nothing. Of course they file every ridiculous motion they can come up with BUT often it's just a "conflict" of schedule. For that one, I think attorneys should have to prove they have a REAL conflict. I've been told BY attorneys that's an easy out and is usually granted and their word is taken for it, at least usually...

I have seen a judge or two in cases insist an attorney change the other case if there really is one. Meaning if a murder trial has been scheduled and the atty just has a hearing on a smaller case in another county, the judge inquires, finds out what it is, and then tells them to change THAT hearing... Or something on that order, not sure if I've seen it with trial but I mean just where it's a bigger case and things or hearings have been delayed too often.

Of course a common one is there's too much discovery to go through. They need more time, then more time, then more time.

I also get angry at times when the prosecution just goes along with a delay way too easily. ONCE maybe out of courtesy and granting some time for reviewing discovery. SOmetimes though rarely they are all too eager to go along with delays. Thankfully rarely because it is a very bad look for prosecutors to want delays.

Our courts are way too inefficient. They don't roll along like a well oiled machine at all, they have NO OIL. Motions, delays and later appeals are way out of hand. And a court rarely fills that suddenly open calendar either.

This one though? It's hardly gotten started... IT's "new" yet...

And whether it's one trial or two, I still have no idea either. I seriously doubt though that either one or two will go off this year even. It would be almost unheard of if he is fighting it. have they demanded speedy trial? I can't recall but don't think so.

 

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

Lawyers for Stephan Sterns argue for closed hearings in Madeline Soto murder case

Stephan Sterns' lawyers argue that all hearings before the trial should be done behind closed doors.

www.wesh.com

Lawyers for Stephan Sterns argue for closed hearings in Madeline Soto murder case​

The man accused of murdering 13-year-old Madeline Soto came to court in person Thursday for a hearing on whether the public and media should be barred from attending court proceedings before his trial.

Public Defender Alesha Smith showed the judge a Powerpoint presentation of how many podcasts, Youtube, Reddit, and TikTok accounts are closely following developments in the case. She argued the attention has been “unprecedented” and will make it impossible to have a fair trial.

“The media has, is, and likely will continue to dissect every aspect of this case,” Smith said.

A lawyer representing several news organizations, including WESH 2, argued that Florida and U.S. courts have consistently ruled that proceedings are presumed to be open.

“Prominence does not produce prejudice,” attorney Minch Minchin said. “And juror impartiality, we have reiterated, does not require ignorance.”

Prosecutors told the judge that Sterns’ defense provided no evidence that the coverage has impacted the jury pool, especially because the audience for social media reports can be anywhere in the world.

“Youtube is not exclusive to Osceola county. WESH isn’t exclusive to Osceola County. Reddit certainly is not exclusive to Osceola County,” assistant State Attorney William Jay said. “Where’s the data about the effectiveness of the message, on Osceola County. It’s just not there.”

Judge Keith Carsten said he would rule on Sterns’ motion to close pretrial proceedings within 10 days.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Florida and US Courts consistently ruled proceedings are to be open. No sh*t. A few other states seem to think they can do as they wish these days.

Keep it open Florida as you're know for.

 

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

Jailhouse calls reveal Stephan Sterns' regrets after arrest in Madeline Soto murder case

"I wish I had done the right thing to begin with," Stephan Sterns told his parents.

www.wesh.com

Jailhouse calls reveal Stephan Sterns' regrets after arrest in Madeline Soto murder case​

Stephan Sterns' new jailhouse phone calls reveal conversations with his parents after his arrest for the murder of 13-year-old Madeline Soto.

WESH 2 is still going through nearly four hours of phone calls. But in one clip, you hear Sterns talking to his parents about his state of mind and how he wishes he could have done things differently.

"Understand that anything I did was not done while being in my rational mind. I had snapped at that point. I just... I wish I had done the right thing to begin with. You know, I wish I had run downstairs and shaken her awake and called 911 and all that," Sterns said.

"I wish you had, too. Maybe she could have been saved. But I, you know," said Sterns' mother.

"No. She was ... she was beyond that," Sterns replied.

In another call, Sterns' mother referenced Jennifer Soto, Maddie's mother, and discussed the discovery of disturbing sexual images of Maddie on Sterns' cellphone.

"You know, Stephan, I can't help but get the feeling that none of this that was on the phone was a surprise to (REDACTED)," his mother said.

"She was aware that (REDACTED) had certain feelings toward me," Sterns said.

"Yeah. Well then, why would she send her in there to sleep with you?" Sterns' mother asked.

"She used to joke about it. You know, call it an Electra complex. Used to joke and say, you know, 'You better not leave me for my daughter when she's older.' Things like that," Sterns responded.

It's important to note that Jennifer Soto has not been charged with any crime connected to the disappearance or death of her daughter.

In another call, Sterns' mother said she wished he had come to them sooner and told them what was happening.

Sterns replied, saying he was suffering from cowardice.

Based on the calls, Sterns isn't taking responsibility for Maddie's murder. Instead, telling his parents he found her after she had died.

In multiple conversations, Sterns paints a vague picture of what happened the night Maddie was killed.

"Again, I know you can't talk about this, but it almost sounds like you didn't know she had, something had happened to her?" his father said.

"Well, I discovered her in the state that she was in after everything was said and done," Sterns said. "So I mean, obviously, I can't get into details, but I was not aware that she had passed on. As you know, I'm up and down throughout the night, and I was not in the room the whole time."

We know from reports that Sterns and Maddie Soto would sometimes share a bed in a townhome Maddie's mother shared with roommates.

In the same phone call, Sterns' father asks, "Was there anybody else at the townhome that was not a regular person?"

Sterns said, "No, which is why I keep saying that I'm not sure that there's any one person honestly to blame. But they're certainly trying to blame me."https://www.wesh.com/article/stephan-sterns-murder-madeline-soto/60594686

 

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

‘She was ice cold’: New jailhouse phone calls released from man accused of killing 13-year-old girl

Investigators have released new jailhouse phone calls made by Stephan Sterns.

www.wftv.com

‘She was ice cold’: New jailhouse phone calls released from man accused of killing 13-year-old girl​

Investigators have released new jailhouse phone calls made by Stephan Sterns.

The calls were made about three months after Sterns was arrested for Madeline’s death.

Before his arrest, Sterns spoke with Channel 9 and said the last time he saw Madeline was after dropping her off at school.

However, in the calls to his parents, he says he found her body, but there was nothing he could do.

Sterns criticized Madeline’s upbringing, calling it a “train wreck.”

However, Sterns defended Madeline’s mom, Jen Soto, saying she was suffering too.

 

[GrandmaBear]

I was listening to some of the phone calls the other night. On The Docket. I've taken in a bit on a lot of cases but hardly been able to keyboard or share due to sore arms, shoulders, neck and back. Hey it was the legs, now that's all aggravated again badly. ANYHOW...

I almost resisted because though I like him and he does great things and gets the actual documents, phone calls, etc., his shows tend to go very, very long. I also, was trying to do what I had to and couldn't do much, so I clicked into it, not even knowing if the calls had anything of interest.

I was fuming before long. I don't know who these people think they are or how stupid they think LE and the reset of the world is. His mother and him particularly. His dad is another one of "those" that seem more staying out of things but their very way of doing that adds to a messed up family.

@Regina we agree Iknow on SS, have you heard all these?

It is like Brian Laundrie and his mother all over again. And I PERSONALLY do cut the parents some slack in these cases but OMG.

And one can tell the son is playing the mom at the same time.

Of course they were full well knowing it was being recorded.

I don't have words, time, the physical capability of even trying to explain. It was just SO clear what it was. Mom was trying for one thing, but son has to also "cover" lies to his parents imo. He is a freaking pervertt pedo (imo, dead to rights) and none of it of course was about Maddie. A lot about his friends talking about them, the family, turning on him, being on Gray Hughes, then of course how religious and good they are, SS used that one a few times. It was about all I could TAKE. I started watching the chat and man I wasn't alone in how angry I was getting.

It has very much not been my week and it was late and I didn't get through all and I didn't go into it at the beginning either but man...

There are NOT words for the dynamic going on. Or what each was trying to do. They were trying to do the same but in the same breath he has lied to his parents and so he has to watch for that but at the same time much like Brian's parents I think they well know it but she's making it all just not his fault, etc., etc. and trying to lay things I think she thinks will help him. It is SICK.

The one I heard dad was on at first and then mom got on and took over from then on. I don't excuse the dads in some of these cases though, you know what I think, why didn't you put your FOOT down, or weren't home, or helping, or were out and not doing your job, when the kids were being raised like this... For lack of better words. There is more to the dynamic, I just don't have WORDS.

I guess also phone calls can go on forever now, it's not some limited time thing, they have tablets and who knows what else has changed.

Anyhow, seen a fair amount on a number of cases but haven't had any chance or ability to share it and this was one of those.

His voice and ways even. Just sickened. Poor Maddie exposed to that basically her entire life. He's such a CREEPY ICKY THING. Imo.

 

[Regina]

I was listening to some of the phone calls the other night. On The Docket. I've taken in a bit on a lot of cases but hardly been able to keyboard or share due to sore arms, shoulders, neck and back. Hey it was the legs, now that's all aggravated again badly. ANYHOW...

I almost resisted because though I like him and he does great things and gets the actual documents, phone calls, etc., his shows tend to go very, very long. I also, was trying to do what I had to and couldn't do much, so I clicked into it, not even knowing if the calls had anything of interest.

I was fuming before long. I don't know who these people think they are or how stupid they think LE and the reset of the world is. His mother and him particularly. His dad is another one of "those" that seem more staying out of things but their very way of doing that adds to a messed up family.

@Regina we agree Iknow on SS, have you heard all these?

It is like Brian Laundrie and his mother all over again. And I PERSONALLY do cut the parents some slack in these cases but OMG.

And one can tell the son is playing the mom at the same time.

Of course they were full well knowing it was being recorded.

I don't have words, time, the physical capability of even trying to explain. It was just SO clear what it was. Mom was trying for one thing, but son has to also "cover" lies to his parents imo. He is a freaking pervertt pedo (imo, dead to rights) and none of it of course was about Maddie. A lot about his friends talking about them, the family, turning on him, being on Gray Hughes, then of course how religious and good they are, SS used that one a few times. It was about all I could TAKE. I started watching the chat and man I wasn't alone in how angry I was getting.

It has very much not been my week and it was late and I didn't get through all and I didn't go into it at the beginning either but man...

There are NOT words for the dynamic going on. Or what each was trying to do. They were trying to do the same but in the same breath he has lied to his parents and so he has to watch for that but at the same time much like Brian's parents I think they well know it but she's making it all just not his fault, etc., etc. and trying to lay things I think she thinks will help him. It is SICK.

The one I heard dad was on at first and then mom got on and took over from then on. I don't excuse the dads in some of these cases though, you know what I think, why didn't you put your FOOT down, or weren't home, or helping, or were out and not doing your job, when the kids were being raised like this... For lack of better words. There is more to the dynamic, I just don't have WORDS.

I guess also phone calls can go on forever now, it's not some limited time thing, they have tablets and who knows what else has changed.

Anyhow, seen a fair amount on a number of cases but haven't had any chance or ability to share it and this was one of those.

His voice and ways even. Just sickened. Poor Maddie exposed to that basically her entire life. He's such a CREEPY ICKY THING. Imo.

No, I don't think I've heard all of the jail calls and very little of the ones most recently released.
But to me, all of these parent's have responded the way I'd expect and I think it's normal, I mean, I'd have expected the same from Petito's parent's had it been the other way around.

 

[GrandmaBear]

No, I don't think I've heard all of the jail calls and very little of the ones most recently released.
But to me, all of these parent's have responded the way I'd expect and I think it's normal, I mean, I'd have expected the same from Petito's parent's had it been the other way around.

Not me. I know and believe we all do the best as parents for the most part with what we know at the time.

But some go beyond. Some probably help create a monster and do not even realize. While I don't always agree parents should be blamed and I don't jump on that recent ship, in some cases and with some, well, I wouldn't say some aren't still doing it and just are way beyond.

I don't know... I get it as a parent but I also don't in some cases. And at a point in life...? I mean do you not get it? Don't know, if one is enabling like that but then also being played by your own son, but I'd suspect you know that...?

There's been quite a bit released the last months and I haven't kept up, just can't, of actual phone calls, docs, and so on.

For the record, I don't think Gabby's parents are saints or anything and of course they are not on the reverse side of things. I mean they had a girl that was in a DV situation and living with him and his parents and not with any of her own family, going on a van life thing, etc. We all just hope, pray, do the best we know how imo and when they are adults there is even less one can do, and judge too. I do it, several others are the best parents ever and never for one second didn't keep their kid in sight they will say in their lifetime. Talking when they are young in that one.

But the Laundrie mom and SS's mom are not that. Again I don't have words. They are beyond that. And I actually felt sorry for the L parents with being harassed daily outside their home by idiots just looking for attn imo even though I did not agree with what they were doing.

But I guess to get back to a point of yours, if the situation was reversed.... I don't think Gabby's parents were perfect either, none of us are. My opinion anyhow. For some reason she stayed in it, she probably hid things from them as any of us do, etc.

But the Laundrie mom and the SS mom I think are beyond any of that or most of us. I guess that is the best way i can put it. If none of us have regrets, hindsight or live and learn we are either lying or we just can't see and something far bigger is wrong...

Unless all of the tons of proof on SS are b.s. here by LE (and I doubt that)) well his mother really needs some help herself but she know sit all, and so that's not going to happen.

She's condoning, excusing, I don't know. All it makes me think is wondering more about that family and I wasn't but with this, I don't know.... It's not helping your how old son, it's trying to blind herself from how he got that way or something.

 

[Regina]

Not me. I know and believe we all do the best as parents for the most part with what we know at the time.

But some go beyond. Some probably help create a monster and do not even realize. While I don't always agree parents should be blamed and I don't jump on that recent ship, in some cases and with some, well, I wouldn't say some aren't still doing it and just are way beyond.

I don't know... I get it as a parent but I also don't in some cases. And at a point in life...? I mean do you not get it? Don't know, if one is enabling like that but then also being played by your own son, but I'd suspect you know that...?

There's been quite a bit released the last months and I haven't kept up, just can't, of actual phone calls, docs, and so on.

For the record, I don't think Gabby's parents are saints or anything and of course they are not on the reverse side of things. I mean they had a girl that was in a DV situation and living with him and his parents and not with any of her own family, going on a van life thing, etc. We all just hope, pray, do the best we know how imo and when they are adults there is even less one can do, and judge too. I do it, several others are the best parents ever and never for one second didn't keep their kid in sight they will say in their lifetime. Talking when they are young in that one.

But the Laundrie mom and SS's mom are not that. Again I don't have words. They are beyond that. And I actually felt sorry for the L parents with being harassed daily outside their home by idiots just looking for attn imo even though I did not agree with what they were doing.

But I guess to get back to a point of yours, if the situation was reversed.... I don't think Gabby's parents were perfect either, none of us are. My opinion anyhow. For some reason she stayed in it, she probably hid things from them as any of us do, etc.

But the Laundrie mom and the SS mom I think are beyond any of that or most of us. I guess that is the best way i can put it. If none of us have regrets, hindsight or live and learn we are either lying or we just can't see and something far bigger is wrong...

Unless all of the tons of proof on SS are b.s. here by LE (and I doubt that)) well his mother really needs some help herself but she know sit all, and so that's not going to happen.

She's condoning, excusing, I don't know. All it makes me think is wondering more about that family and I wasn't but with this, I don't know.... It's not helping your how old son, it's trying to blind herself from how he got that way or something.

Well, these parents were in denial and I know that's not good but it's how they coped, you know, they couldn't accept reality.
To my knowledge, the Sterns parents have been able to accept that their son is soley responsible for everything that happened to Madeline.
Btw, I've now listened to all of the calls (on Gray's channel) and they're fascinating!)

 

[GrandmaBear]

Well, these parents were in denial and I know that's not good but it's how they coped, you know, they couldn't accept reality.
To my knowledge, the Sterns parents have been able to accept that their son is soley responsible for everything that happened to Madeline.
Btw, I've now listened to all of the calls (on Gray's channel) and they're fascinating!)

Well they admitted but then seem to slide to trying to create a story for him which is so obvious in these calls. Yes they AR E something aren't they? I don't think I ever even did hear all of it but I heard plenty, enough to certainly pick up the dynamic between ma and son. I don't even have the words for how he lies, she's trying to help him, he can't tell her all because he's lied to them... No words, just can't explain it, it does take listening to it definitely.

They seemed to accept he is solely responsible earlier on but it sure isn't what the calls seem to show. And yeah, they mention Gray, I think even dad did, on how his friends threw him AND the parents under the bus, etc., etc., etc.

There is so much going on in so many cases at a time i can hardly follow any much less keep up. I heard plenty enough on these though. I don't have to think hard either to imagine what Gray had to say about it lol.

I do try to give The Docket some time as he pays for and gets the documents and stays on every which way of requesting them, following up, etc. but BOTH he and Gray do such LONG shows lol and sometimes 1/2 or more of Gray's aren't even about the case. I know you like him, I'm not anti, I just can't take that part. When he does the rare more direct thing, I do watch.

Anyhow, lol, yeah fascinating is one word... The parents are a contradiction, I mean they came out and accepted it basically but it doesn't seem to be what's going on in the calls... Again I don't think I heard every last one but I heard a lot for a long time. I fell asleep listening late that night as I recall. Lol.

Anyhow, glad you did hear them now, probably more up than i am now, as then you know what I mean about the different dynamics going on.

Glad to see you as always, I think you've maybe been on more than I've been able to be recently. Hope all is well with you and yours. Been a rough patch here lately but surviving lol.

Yeah, I guess I'd say one more thing in that his parents have a serious monster on their hands and what do you do with that, it's their son I guess... I know he's not convicted but there's such a ton of evidence claimed that if true, then he is responsible for all of it...

 

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

Man accused of killing Madeline Soto denied motion for closed pretrial proceedings

A public defender in court last week showed the judge a Powerpoint presentation of how many podcasts, Youtube, Reddit, and TikTok accounts are closely following developments in the case.

www.wesh.com

Man accused of killing Madeline Soto denied motion for closed pretrial proceedings​

The man accused of murdering 13-year-old Madeline Soto has been denied a motion to block media and the public from all pretrial proceedings.

Judge denies motion to keep media out of Stephan Sterns trial

A judge in Osceola County has denied Stephan Sterns’ efforts to keep the media and public out of the courtroom when he goes to trial.

www.wftv.com

Judge denies motion to keep media out of Stephan Sterns trial​

A judge in Osceola County has denied Stephan Sterns’ efforts to keep the media and public out of the courtroom when he goes to trial.

Sterns filed the motion in February, claiming the media attention would jeopardize his right to a fair trial.

Circuit Judge Keith Carsten disagreed, saying the motion was too broad and the defense did not prove the media coverage was “fundamentally hostile.” The judge also said a courtroom closure is not necessary to guarantee a fair trial.

 

[GrandmaBear]

I wouldn't even call this case widely covered although one would think it would be. Stay open Florida, been a fight that way in many a state.

SS isn't as famous as he thinks he is, sickly people like Karen Read grab more interest.

Anyhow, I'm a big believer in open records and proceedings. So glad to hear this.

 

[Regina]

Well they admitted but then seem to slide to trying to create a story for him which is so obvious in these calls. Yes they AR E something aren't they? I don't think I ever even did hear all of it but I heard plenty, enough to certainly pick up the dynamic between ma and son. I don't even have the words for how he lies, she's trying to help him, he can't tell her all because he's lied to them... No words, just can't explain it, it does take listening to it definitely.

They seemed to accept he is solely responsible earlier on but it sure isn't what the calls seem to show. And yeah, they mention Gray, I think even dad did, on how his friends threw him AND the parents under the bus, etc., etc., etc.

There is so much going on in so many cases at a time i can hardly follow any much less keep up. I heard plenty enough on these though. I don't have to think hard either to imagine what Gray had to say about it lol.

I do try to give The Docket some time as he pays for and gets the documents and stays on every which way of requesting them, following up, etc. but BOTH he and Gray do such LONG shows lol and sometimes 1/2 or more of Gray's aren't even about the case. I know you like him, I'm not anti, I just can't take that part. When he does the rare more direct thing, I do watch.

Anyhow, lol, yeah fascinating is one word... The parents are a contradiction, I mean they came out and accepted it basically but it doesn't seem to be what's going on in the calls... Again I don't think I heard every last one but I heard a lot for a long time. I fell asleep listening late that night as I recall. Lol.

Anyhow, glad you did hear them now, probably more up than i am now, as then you know what I mean about the different dynamics going on.

Glad to see you as always, I think you've maybe been on more than I've been able to be recently. Hope all is well with you and yours. Been a rough patch here lately but surviving lol.

Yeah, I guess I'd say one more thing in that his parents have a serious monster on their hands and what do you do with that, it's their son I guess... I know he's not convicted but there's such a ton of evidence claimed that if true, then he is responsible for all of it...

I think all those calls took place sometime before the parents said that they believe he's solely responsible.

Did you hear when Sterns suggested that his parents set-up a trust fund so that in the event of their deaths, he'd be taken care of?
Those are my words but that was the gist of what he said and as I recall, the parents were speechless (lol).
There were alot of moments like that, particularly with the father when he's trying to get answers.

Glad to see you, too. Indeed, it's good to see you're still hanging on, lol!

 

[GrandmaBear]

I think all those calls took place sometime before the parents said that they believe he's solely responsible.

Did you hear when Sterns suggested that his parents set-up a trust fund so that in the event of their deaths, he'd be taken care of?
Those are my words but that was the gist of what he said and as I recall, the parents were speechless (lol).
There were alot of moments like that, particularly with the father when he's trying to get answers.

Glad to see you, too. Indeed, it's good to see you're still hanging on, lol!

It very well could be. I came into it in like the middle. As I said his like Gray's are so long, I just can't do the whole thing sometimes. But they were just released and as you said the dynamic, well, is fascinating... Your word.

yes, trying to hang on.

he suggested they set up a trust fund?? The "man" is a total loser. I know you are not on the same page about JS but how do you fall for someone this yuck? Of course am looking at it not involved and with hindsight but his voice, all about him is just so yuck. I feel so bad for Maddie. I mean their entire world is alien to me. And she lived it basically her entire life. JS too, no, she was living in daddy's house, etc. and never adulted?

I won't even add in the Disney thing. With both or all of them.

So the calls were from before the parents got aLife clue?

I'm surprised you got time to follow it all too, I barely have had.

Life, as you have too, and then the cases i do follow seem to all be erupting at the moment when I can't even follow. Lol but not.

I'd like to keep this one up because it's just so bad and he is so evil imo.

Always good to see you. I do notice when you are off and notice you've been on more lately, about as much as I'm managing although at least now I can type lol.

What I do know is what I heard of the calls it is so obvious what they are all doing, and SS in his own way too.

A trust fund. My God. I get parents being enabling, in denial and even being played but wow... Would you agree he is a user, an abuser and you name it?

Maddie's entire life basically and no protection. I feel so bad for her. And regardless of varying opinions on JS, she had no out, mom didn't see it, get it, etc. and I am putting that nicely. I know this much, I'd be beating myself up as a mom if i was her, to no end. And I just haven't seen that in her.

 

[Regina]

It very well could be. I came into it in like the middle. As I said his like Gray's are so long, I just can't do the whole thing sometimes. But they were just released and as you said the dynamic, well, is fascinating... Your word.

yes, trying to hang on.

he suggested they set up a trust fund?? The "man" is a total loser. I know you are not on the same page about JS but how do you fall for someone this yuck? Of course am looking at it not involved and with hindsight but his voice, all about him is just so yuck. I feel so bad for Maddie. I mean their entire world is alien to me. And she lived it basically her entire life. JS too, no, she was living in daddy's house, etc. and never adulted?

I won't even add in the Disney thing. With both or all of them.

So the calls were from before the parents got aLife clue?

I'm surprised you got time to follow it all too, I barely have had.

Life, as you have too, and then the cases i do follow seem to all be erupting at the moment when I can't even follow. Lol but not.

I'd like to keep this one up because it's just so bad and he is so evil imo.

Always good to see you. I do notice when you are off and notice you've been on more lately, about as much as I'm managing although at least now I can type lol.

What I do know is what I heard of the calls it is so obvious what they are all doing, and SS in his own way too.

A trust fund. My God. I get parents being enabling, in denial and even being played but wow... Would you agree he is a user, an abuser and you name it?

Maddie's entire life basically and no protection. I feel so bad for her. And regardless of varying opinions on JS, she had no out, mom didn't see it, get it, etc. and I am putting that nicely. I know this much, I'd be beating myself up as a mom if i was her, to no end. And I just haven't seen that in her.

I'm actually not sure now whether I have heard all of the calls because I just went to YT (I was gonna get Gray's episode to post here) and I see there's a part two, lol. I've listened to about two and a half hours of what I think are the most recently released calls.
Anyway, I like what Gray did with those calls! There's no commentary and he took out a lot of the beginning part- the automated "you have a call from an inmate" crap- and he sped up the audio and there're timed . Now, the speed's a bit too fast for my southern ears (lol) but I didn't mind since there're so many calls and so little time!

 

[GrandmaBear]

I'm actually not sure now whether I have heard all of the calls because I just went to YT (I was gonna get Gray's episode to post here) and I see there's a part two, lol. I've listened to about two and a half hours of what I think are the most recently released calls.
Anyway, I like what Gray did with those calls! There's no commentary and he took out a lot of the beginning part- the automated "you have a call from an inmate" crap- and he sped up the audio and there're timed . Now, the speed's a bit too fast for my southern ears (lol) but I didn't mind since there're so many calls and so little time!

Honestly if Gray would just do things like that, and quit with the fundraising and talking for an hour rather than covering a case I think he'd get more watching. I get they are doing a channel for a reason but we all have lives lol.

Scott the other night cut through a lot of garbage in court filings that only our system or the court, judge, etc. need to cut to the chase so I know what you mean. Not this case, think it was Kohberger. Or Daybell Or Read. So many very busy right now, but he cut through that stuff knowing it is just the archaic and legal mumbo jumbo that had no meat. It is the same reason I like Tom in Delphi, he does the same.

It is like I said, I like The Docket too but the shows are just too long. So are most of Gray's. Etc. Pretty sure you know what I mean. Gray has tried in maybe this last year to do a few shorter things, I think he knows it.

Nate on Daybell too really was just giving or reading the guts of the filings re Lori. I appreciate when they do that. So again I get what you mean.

I've noticed a speed issue on a few things lately. It maybe is YT?

As said, i was nodding off but I knew I didn't hear all calls. There are many from what i recall. Seemed to be no time limit either on what i did hear. Mom was talking and talking and king.
Him too though.

I don't dislike Gray by the way, I just don't like going in and an hour later he finally gets to a case. he's an exceptional mapper and you name it.

I try to cull who I watch as well. I am not a Docket or Plunder fan but I do try to give them some time as they truly do keep after getting the actual legal documents. Both shows tend to be too long though. Grizz tries to cover every case on the face of the earth and be a superstar, did like her, but then realized what she was doing, and she fails to give credit to the other channels and takes their stuff.

Anyhow, yeah, there are though some good ones out there and I'm not "anti" Gray, I just can't do him a lot of the time. I get he makes a lot, and donates and yada yada but sometimes it is at least an hour of that stuff and yelling before a case is gotten to.

Back to this one, are all the calls before the parents faced he did this? I'm admitting I don't know. I do know there is one heck of a dynamic going on there....

 

[Regina]

Honestly if Gray would just do things like that, and quit with the fundraising and talking for an hour rather than covering a case I think he'd get more watching. I get they are doing a channel for a reason but we all have lives lol.

Scott the other night cut through a lot of garbage in court filings that only our system or the court, judge, etc. need to cut to the chase so I know what you mean. Not this case, think it was Kohberger. Or Daybell Or Read. So many very busy right now, but he cut through that stuff knowing it is just the archaic and legal mumbo jumbo that had no meat. It is the same reason I like Tom in Delphi, he does the same.

It is like I said, I like The Docket too but the shows are just too long. So are most of Gray's. Etc. Pretty sure you know what I mean. Gray has tried in maybe this last year to do a few shorter things, I think he knows it.

Nate on Daybell too really was just giving or reading the guts of the filings re Lori. I appreciate when they do that. So again I get what you mean.

I've noticed a speed issue on a few things lately. It maybe is YT?

As said, i was nodding off but I knew I didn't hear all calls. There are many from what i recall. Seemed to be no time limit either on what i did hear. Mom was talking and talking and king.
Him too though.

I don't dislike Gray by the way, I just don't like going in and an hour later he finally gets to a case. he's an exceptional mapper and you name it.

I try to cull who I watch as well. I am not a Docket or Plunder fan but I do try to give them some time as they truly do keep after getting the actual legal documents. Both shows tend to be too long though. Grizz tries to cover every case on the face of the earth and be a superstar, did like her, but then realized what she was doing, and she fails to give credit to the other channels and takes their stuff.

Anyhow, yeah, there are though some good ones out there and I'm not "anti" Gray, I just can't do him a lot of the time. I get he makes a lot, and donates and yada yada but sometimes it is at least an hour of that stuff and yelling before a case is gotten to.

Back to this one, are all the calls before the parents faced he did this? I'm admitting I don't know. I do know there is one heck of a dynamic going on there....

From what I gather, I don't think the parents have fully come to terms with everything but I think they've come a long way.

I've been trying to imagine the conflict in wanting to know more while knowing that whatever is learned is recorded.
Anyway, I went back to listen to the interview with the parents where they said they believe he's solely responsible and at that time, they hadn't spoken to Sterns for 3 weeks and didn't know why. The father said he called the jail for a wellness check and the guy on the other end essentially said something like he'll (Sterns) call if wants to. I have to say, I'm very disappointed by that response. Why so unsympathetic?

 

[GrandmaBear]

From what I gather, I don't think the parents have fully come to terms with everything but I think they've come a long way.

I've been trying to imagine the conflict in wanting to know more while knowing that whatever is learned is recorded.
Anyway, I went back to listen to the interview with the parents where they said they believe he's solely responsible and at that time, they hadn't spoken to Sterns for 3 weeks and didn't know why. The father said he called the jail for a wellness check and the guy on the other end essentially said something like he'll (Sterns) call if wants to. I have to say, I'm very disappointed by that response. Why so unsympathetic?

you have to admit the open records thing in FL they may be a bit slow with some of it, but a lot sure comes out.

i don't know what any of us would do, believe you are a parent, so am i, but IF convinced my child did something, I truly believe I'd tell them to fess up, own up, face it. I WOULD need evidence. I would though never quit loving or seeing them but i WOULD tell them to face it, etc., that's where I stand on it or what I think I'd do. If I didn't see evidence or enough proof then I'd stand for them to the end. I "think" that's where I'd come to with it but of course we can all talk but if one hasn't lived it...

Yeah not being able to talk by call or by visit in some cases... I mentioned I don't even know or didn't that the time frame might have been earlier but I did know they were just recently released/obtained.

Your part about why so unsympathetic we may disagree on... If following right... It was so obvious how SS plays everyone starting with his parents on down to a little girl. Imo I heard I guess enough even though not all of it. I can have some sympathy for the parents but come on, I mean as you said they know by now or should.

I don't know WHAT I would do with a child who did as he has allegedly done, as I said i think I'd never quit loving my child but I'd make it totally clear to do the right thing and so on.

You always make for a good conversation!

And I guess the only part I disagree with here is the part about why so unsympathetic? I guess I'd have to know more and not been my days although I have alerted on things coming out in cases as best I can. They deal with that sickening SS, and the parents should know by now...

Again all any of us can do is claim what we would do but I'm more the type to make mine face things and I think I'd be that way, IF convinced they did something, however, what their son did is so beyond I'd like to think I'd at least love and see my child but he ruined the life of another child for almost all of hers....

Anyhow, as I said always interesting to debate with you, and while I am not up on every moment and did not watch Gray, I did want to say this stuff was out and so on even if I couldn't follow all. So many cases erupting lately or going into trial, etc. or major motions and so on. I've struggled to be on but happy to see you've been. I notice when you aren't, and do so with most.

I think these parents well, like you say, the calls were fascinating. I'm not entirely judging them--I mean I was one in the Laundrie case (Petito actually) who was disgusted by the people harassing them. It doesn't mean I agreed with what I felt they did, and I think most parents can agree that who knows what you would do although we think we know, or most of us judge or think so, but I guess I've always been the type to more say you own up to what you did, meaning you stole the cookie lol, not anything this serious, just be honest...

I guess though I mean this one, they've got a son that's allegedly (I believe it sadly) one major pedo and killer and that is harder to wrap the mind around... HE is so sickening to listen to but of course we know it so that probably plays in.

Once you mentioned at least some if not all were b4 it fit but more released I know than was. Just trying to share what I do see, not been able to keep up on all.

Anyhow, what did you think about him? It is so clear he is playing the parents, at least mom for sure... And maybe she even knew... You called it fascinating, I thought the dynamic very obvious and interesting...

Hey, I love that you are willing to discuss

 

[Regina]

you have to admit the open records thing in FL they may be a bit slow with some of it, but a lot sure comes out.

i don't know what any of us would do, believe you are a parent, so am i, but IF convinced my child did something, I truly believe I'd tell them to fess up, own up, face it. I WOULD need evidence. I would though never quit loving or seeing them but i WOULD tell them to face it, etc., that's where I stand on it or what I think I'd do. If I didn't see evidence or enough proof then I'd stand for them to the end. I "think" that's where I'd come to with it but of course we can all talk but if one hasn't lived it...

Yeah not being able to talk by call or by visit in some cases... I mentioned I don't even know or didn't that the time frame might have been earlier but I did know they were just recently released/obtained.

Your part about why so unsympathetic we may disagree on... If following right... It was so obvious how SS plays everyone starting with his parents on down to a little girl. Imo I heard I guess enough even though not all of it. I can have some sympathy for the parents but come on, I mean as you said they know by now or should.

I don't know WHAT I would do with a child who did as he has allegedly done, as I said i think I'd never quit loving my child but I'd make it totally clear to do the right thing and so on.

You always make for a good conversation!

And I guess the only part I disagree with here is the part about why so unsympathetic? I guess I'd have to know more and not been my days although I have alerted on things coming out in cases as best I can. They deal with that sickening SS, and the parents should know by now...

Again all any of us can do is claim what we would do but I'm more the type to make mine face things and I think I'd be that way, IF convinced they did something, however, what their son did is so beyond I'd like to think I'd at least love and see my child but he ruined the life of another child for almost all of hers....

Anyhow, as I said always interesting to debate with you, and while I am not up on every moment and did not watch Gray, I did want to say this stuff was out and so on even if I couldn't follow all. So many cases erupting lately or going into trial, etc. or major motions and so on. I've struggled to be on but happy to see you've been. I notice when you aren't, and do so with most.

I think these parents well, like you say, the calls were fascinating. I'm not entirely judging them--I mean I was one in the Laundrie case (Petito actually) who was disgusted by the people harassing them. It doesn't mean I agreed with what I felt they did, and I think most parents can agree that who knows what you would do although we think we know, or most of us judge or think so, but I guess I've always been the type to more say you own up to what you did, meaning you stole the cookie lol, not anything this serious, just be honest...

I guess though I mean this one, they've got a son that's allegedly (I believe it sadly) one major pedo and killer and that is harder to wrap the mind around... HE is so sickening to listen to but of course we know it so that probably plays in.

Once you mentioned at least some if not all were b4 it fit but more released I know than was. Just trying to share what I do see, not been able to keep up on all.

Anyhow, what did you think about him? It is so clear he is playing the parents, at least mom for sure... And maybe she even knew... You called it fascinating, I thought the dynamic very obvious and interesting...

Hey, I love that you are willing to discuss

Re open records, I'm surprised what all is available to the public before a trial, I mean, it just doesn't seem to me to be the right time.
And re jail calls, I actually don't think those should ever be publicly available.
As for the parents, I think I just ignore much of what I've heard them say and the reason is because I know it's how people in denial behave, you know, they make excuses while criticizing others or even accuse/blame others... Of course, none of that's right but understanding where it comes from, I can only feel sorry for them.
Have you seen the documentary, Life With Murder?
If not, I found it on YouTube and I hope you'll find time to watch it. Those poor parents suffered unimaginably- their son murdered their daughter- and I guess it was because they didn't stop loving their son, there was a lack of sympathy toward them, too.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Re open records, I'm surprised what all is available to the public before a trial, I mean, it just doesn't seem to me to be the right time.
And re jail calls, I actually don't think those should ever be publicly available.
As for the parents, I think I just ignore much of what I've heard them say and the reason is because I know it's how people in denial behave, you know, they make excuses while criticizing others or even accuse/blame others... Of course, none of that's right but understanding where it comes from, I can only feel sorry for them.
Have you seen the documentary, Life With Murder?
If not, I found it on YouTube and I hope you'll find time to watch it. Those poor parents suffered unimaginably- their son murdered their daughter- and I guess it was because they didn't stop loving their son, there was a lack of sympathy toward them, too.

You give a lot of food for thought.

FL has always been very very open records, it seems at times like everywhere some don't know how to get them, or whoever may be in office in a county or state or LE kind of hope to hold records back but their laws are very much for open records, last I knew anyhow. So much changes under our noses for laws and then different states though it is almost impossible to be sure sometimes.

Our state was flat out I'd say one of the easiest too with records and for putting them onto the court site and so on. Even in the case records, one could often see a lot of details on who was a hearing, birthdates, various things like that but at some point it changed. Now a lot of that doesn't show on the online court records, I suppose someone sued or someone else that came into office changed it.

I DO agree with open records but things like birth dates, addresses and some other things of course shouldn't be maybe easily accessible. i get what you are saying about before a trial. It all makes for interesting debate and conversation.

Here is one I'm not a fan of: That both sides have to pretty much commit to what their case is going to be in court and tell the other everything. I guess in some ways it is good, but I don't think in all ways it is. That woud be an interesting conversationon someday too, imo.

The jail calls. Hmm. I can go a bit both ways on that... Mostly I'm in favor. I mean people are in prison at least (jail maybe not so much) because they are convicted bad people and we can't have them calling a hit man, just an off the wall example. Jail is a bit different but I still favor it being public/open/recorded. I guess imo in general if you are telling the truth what do you need to hide? And the atty/client thing is still protected. I GUESS you could have need (not you I mean that generally, any of the public) to want a private conversation say about let me throw something out there, maybe your father having an affair on your mom or something (again I mean that as to anyone of us)
and it has no relation to your charges and is no one's business. So I guess in that way, yes, perhaps some should allow for privacy, or the death of a family member, etc.

On the flip side they are in a public or govt facility using their phones, tablets, service and so on. Most of the time too, in my cynical opinion the only reason one would want to get around that or most of those in jail, etc. is for wrongdoing. Maybe that's not fair and I'm certainly not saying all are guilty and everyone imo unless totally out of touch know such are recorded. Lori just tried something like that in Daybell about IP addresses versus a phone # and it didn't fly and shouldn't have imo. What it showed me is she thought she knew how to get around such IF indeed it was true and so did her atty. Then we have Kouri Richins who was trying to get her mom and brother to say certain things...

Anyhow, to not digress further, it's a good subject and you always bring some interesting topics too, I enjoy the discussion.

I am pretty sure I have not seen that show, it's possible I could know a case though, so many are covered so many places.
one ca
I'd never quit loving my child no matter what they did, I'm pretty darned sure of that so I get that part with some of the parents. I do believe though in teaching accountability and not enabling, althouggh I get that is easy to say if we haven't lived it. Most of us claim things but haven't lived them, oh we'd never do this, or do that, we never took our eyes off our child for a second etc. I don't believe most of some of that for a second. And believe me I'd HAVE to know my child was guilty or I'd defend to the end. If I did however and there was just no doubt, I'd want them to face up to what they did. At least I think so. And it's also a lot different when talking pedophilia and murdering a child and dominating probably most of her life, than talking a traffic ticket right?

Sometimes it is just time whether the parents or child to face up to things and not enable. Again it's easy to say that of course. Different than living it for sure. And i've seen both sides of it at various points in life. I get it. I think any caring parent does.

And then there is the reverse side where children can't believe their parent is guilty. Chad Daybell's kids, the Morphew girls, tons of examples. I think maybe that's easier in some ways to understand. We most of us idolize our parents, siblings, etc. and we are young. I understood all of them but you know, imo, there just comes a time and it's sad and life is hard but living in denail often results in harder times because you never faced anything. I don't know I truly don't. It's a tough one.

I'll say in our case, I think the parents mostly knew their son had done what he did but the sister would have pulled any darned thing to save him and was pulling it. I guess I just would think parents have lived more years and should know more but yeah, I would fight if I thought my kid not guilty. The thing is though I don't think that's always the case, it is as you say denial, that's different and can mean they know in their hearts he did it, that's escapism for lack of a better word. I don't really like the term denial either, or closure, other things, but to explain what I mean.

I can't say enough if I truly thought my kid innocent or railroaded that yes, for sure, I'd fight. And it is heartbreaking for all, both sides in cases, etc. However I'm a pretty hard believer that consequences matter as do morals, etc., etc.

I guess I don't really have the words but I try, too much lol. Enabling made some of these kids possibly somewhat the way they are. Not all, but some. Sometimes a parent did all they could right and it still happens I get that. I guess what I'm trying to say is I'm not 100% one way. I can wonder if anyone could ever convince me for instance that my dad killed my mom. Or my uncle killed a stranger and covered it up. Or a child did something like these things either. I'm making all up but I do think about such. I think though most in their hearts even if seemingly in denial really do know.

Another case would be Aidan Fucci. His mom washed his jeans. Now why are you doing that if you believe he did nothing wrong...

I don't know, I truly don't. I do very much get the hard side of it, and I sure wouldn't want it. I am clearly very pro victim and owning up and I admit it. And who knows, again I say it is easy to talk but living it is I am sure different.

You know by the end of our case, I felt for the parents, the grandma and more. No one wins. I did not and still do not for the sister and HIM. And while the judge sentenced way too light for our taste, he did have some things to say that I really should get the record of one day. First he never owned up. Another was that his wanting forgivness is not up to him, it's up to us. And hew as a church going etc. judge. I'm wandering but that's just so true.

Neither side won but HE did this. Man I'd have hated to be in their shoes, their son did this, but our side was beyond horrid too to live with, it still is.

Anyhow, sorry for you if on your phone, and am stopping, but yeah, I get it, and I do think about all of such things. Do you believe in accountability and tough sentences? I'm talking more the serious things like murder, hurting children, and so on.

Anyhow, yeah, you make for some good thought, debate, which is what people imo need to do. Life isn't easy. I wasn't the perfect parent but enabling children never does them any good. NONE of us were perfect and those that claim it are liars imo lol. I also believe EVERY family is dysfunctional (another term) or has someone that is, at least to an extent and if they claim perfection, they are lying. LOL.

Well you got a long one here. Sorry for that. I think though they are good discussions to be had before the world goes to total he77 lol. Or maybe it should be more like and not an lol.