Danny Masterson Charged with Three Counts of Rape "By Force or Fear" *GUILTY 2 of 3*

Danny Masterson Charged with Raping Three Women "By Force or Fear"

If convicted on all counts, the That '70s Show actor could get 45 years to life in prison.

www.vanityfair.com

Danny Masterson Charged with Three Counts of Rape "By Force or Fear"
If convicted on all counts, the That '70s Show actor could face 45 years to life in prison.
By Anthony Breznican
June 17, 2020


Actor Danny Masterson has long been accused of acts of sexual violence, and on Wednesday the That ’70s Show actor was finally arrested after being charged with the rapes of three women in separate incidents dating back to 2001 and 2003.

Los Angeles County District Attorney Jackie Lacey's office charged the 44-year-old with three counts of "rape by force or fear." "If convicted as charged, the defendant faces a possible maximum sentence of 45 years to life in state prison," the district attorney's office said in a statement.

The complaint accuses him of raping a 23-year-old woman in 2001. He is also charged with committing two other assaults in 2003, one against a 28-year-old woman in April, and another against a 23-year-old woman between October and December of that year.



The case will be prosecuted by Deputy District Attorney Reinhold Mueller of the Sex Crimes Division, who stated that all of the alleged rapes occurred at the actor's Hollywood Hills home.

Prosecutors noted that they declined to file sexual assault charges against Masterson in two other cases, "one for insufficient evidence and the other based upon the statute of limitations for the crime alleged."


Masterson has been held on $3.3 million bail. He is represented by defense attorney Thomas Mesereau, who previously represented Bill Cosby, Michael Jackson and Mike Tyson against sex crime charges. In a statement to the Associated Press, Mesereau insisted that Masterson is innocent.

“We’re confident that he will be exonerated when all the evidence finally comes to light and witnesses have the opportunity to testify," the attorney said. “Obviously, Mr. Masterson and his wife are in complete shock considering that these nearly 20-year old allegations are suddenly resulting in charges being filed, but they and their family are comforted knowing that ultimately the truth will come out,” Mesereau said. “The people who know Mr. Masterson know his character and know the allegations to be false.”

The criminal complaint doesn't name the victims, but the timeline of the accusations matches those of four women who accused Masterson of sexual assault in 2016 and 2017 as part of the #MeToo movement. Last year, they sued Masterson, along with the Church of Scientology, to which he belongs, alleging that the powerful and secretive organization stalked and intimidated them for coming forward with their police reports. Masterson and Scientology officials all denied wrongdoing.

Masterson responded to the suit with a statement: “This is beyond ridiculous. I’m not going to fight my ex-girlfriend in the media like she’s been baiting me to do for more than two years. I will beat her in court—and look forward to it because the public will finally be able [to] learn the truth and see how I’ve been railroaded by this woman. And once her lawsuit is thrown out, I intend to sue her and the others who jumped on the bandwagon for the damage they caused me and my family.”

In the lawsuit, the women each claim Masterson forced himself on them or took advantage of them when they were intoxicated and unable to consent.

Masterson is set to be arraigned on Sept. 18.

 

[Howell]

Rape victims lives don't seem to matter much either.

You've ignored my question, so you (apparently), in the circumstances you described, would consider this woman a "rape victim". That's not only absurd, but terribly insulting to real rape victims.

A woman I know was raped so horribly she lay on the bed crying for ten straight hours before calling the police. Long story short it was a bench trial. The guy admitted in open court that he enjoyed hurting women. I don't remember the exact sentence he was given because he was found guilty, but it wasn't much. I'm thinking six months in county, thousand dollar fine and some community work. She was put through much worse than that and will have to deal with it the rest of her life. I told her that her bravery made it harder for him to get a slap on the wrist again. If he's charged again he'll probably get a much harsher sentence. There is no guarantee though. The rapist at Stanford got a slap on the wrist. It's getting better, but there is just so much that makes a woman not want to report it.

You probably should've apologized and told her that it is YOUR OWN MENTALITY that allows real rapists to get a slap on the wrist. It is YOUR OWN MENTALITY that considers your friend's date equally a "rape victim", and trivializes the immense suffering of real rape victims. Because if she's a rape victim, then virtually any woman can call herself a rape victim. Maybe you don't realize it, but it is because of YOUR OWN MENTALITY that real rape victims are not taken as seriously as they should be.
I've known real rape victims. They weren't totally drunk at a frat party nor did they go willingly alone to a man's hotel room at 3 AM. They never consented, implicitly or otherwise. They were coerced, threatened, blackmailed, etc. They sure as hell did not have a friendly/affectionate relationship with their rapist afterward. And they didn't show up 15 years after the fact to report the crime.

 

[SleutherLou]

You've ignored my question, so you (apparently), in the circumstances you described, would consider this woman a "rape victim". That's not only absurd, but terribly insulting to real rape victims.
You probably should've apologized and told her that it is YOUR OWN MENTALITY that allows real rapists to get a slap on the wrist. It is YOUR OWN MENTALITY that considers your friend's date equally a "rape victim", and trivializes the immense suffering of real rape victims. Because if she's a rape victim, then virtually any woman can call herself a rape victim. Maybe you don't realize it, but it is because of YOUR OWN MENTALITY that real rape victims are not taken as seriously as they should be.
I've known real rape victims. They weren't totally drunk at a frat party nor did they go willingly alone to a man's hotel room at 3 AM. They never consented, implicitly or otherwise. They were coerced, threatened, blackmailed, etc. They sure as hell did not have a friendly/affectionate relationship with their rapist afterward. And they didn't show up 15 years after the fact to report the crime.

Do you believe it is only rape if a woman or man is dragged off the street and violent attacked by a stranger,or if the person remained completely clothed and sober at all times?.
If a woman happens to be drunk at a frat party and someone has sex with her if she passes out on a sofa is that rape or did she consent because she passed out?, does the fact that she is passed out and incapable of saying yes or no imply that she has consented purely because she dared to enjoy herself at a party?.
Rape is rape no matter the preceding circumstances and if a person says no or stop at ANY point and the other person carries on then that is rape,anyone is entitled to change their mind at the last minute,even if they have been engaging thus far and I have to say I find it quite distasteful that you appear to believe otherwise,there isnt a point of no return ever, even if someone is active engaged in penetrative intercourse they still have the right to say stop if they change their mind and any normal decent human being would respect that and stop.
It isnt black and white,there is a grey area.
Yes,absolutely women cry wolf sometimes,many times even and I find that absolutely disgusting and THAT is an insult and a betrayal of all genuine victims,and anyone who does so should be punished to the full extent of the law.

I feel that your mentality comes across as victim blaming, are you the type if person who would ask a young girl who was attacked walking through her local park if she was dressed provocatively,or the girl in the bar why she accepted drinks from a man if she didnt intend to sleep with him?, this is the vibe I get from your posts but if this is not the case then please accept my apologies.

 

[GrandmaBear]

You've ignored my question, so you (apparently), in the circumstances you described, would consider this woman a "rape victim". That's not only absurd, but terribly insulting to real rape victims.
You probably should've apologized and told her that it is YOUR OWN MENTALITY that allows real rapists to get a slap on the wrist. It is YOUR OWN MENTALITY that considers your friend's date equally a "rape victim", and trivializes the immense suffering of real rape victims. Because if she's a rape victim, then virtually any woman can call herself a rape victim. Maybe you don't realize it, but it is because of YOUR OWN MENTALITY that real rape victims are not taken as seriously as they should be.
I've known real rape victims. They weren't totally drunk at a frat party nor did they go willingly alone to a man's hotel room at 3 AM. They never consented, implicitly or otherwise. They were coerced, threatened, blackmailed, etc. They sure as hell did not have a friendly/affectionate relationship with their rapist afterward. And they didn't show up 15 years after the fact to report the crime.

Seriously do you do this on purpose? People start to have a real conversation with you and you become an arse and bold words and get nasty. Does it give you your jollies? Seriously? Women will never understand most likely what it is to be a man and not be able to get it up. Most men will never be able to understand that a woman can easily be raped as compared to a man. Is that detailed enough?

Most women have been at minimum date raped. I don't want to get personal but I told my hub any time, if I am sleeping, etc. I love to be woken up that way. Far more personal than I want to share... Because arse that he is even he knew you don't just assume probably because his first ones had headaches...

A date rape may not be a brutal stranger attack or it may. I have at least two that stand out to me in my life... Again I do not want to share that personal of things but I will go there to a point... The first, I was working, I was 16, and my baby sister was dating someone that drove... When I was done with work, I was going to go ride Main Street with a boy I had before more than once who never ever touched me or did a thing wrong. Little bossy sis comes in and says you are coming with us... Okay... I knew her bf and I knew the friend of his they had with... In fact both guys were a year older than I... I figured we were going home where she was supposed to be TOO at that point... I had a beater car first job probably was not running... My folks have never heard this...

For some reason we stop at someone's house... My sis and her bf go in and leave me in the back seat with the guy I also knew... I have a car hop uniform on... Well guess what...? And guess what else... My all knowing sis ya know I could not go with the nice boy (I am the older one) because who knows what may happen to me...? I just had no sense of my own ya know... I did not even dislike the "boy" I knew him... I doubt in his head he did anything wrong... To this day... I have hardly shared that ever... I don't think I have even called my sister out on it... I however was disgusted. I had someone's humping on me and his **** inside me... That I did not want. Was I restrained or beaten? No. Did I say no? Yes, yes and yes....

The other time, my very best friend's brother.... Again someone I would have never went near nor given a chance... I am staying over at her house... Her parents are not home... He generally was not around or at least spent any time with her. For some reason, he is nice that night... He orders a pizza for her and I etc. Was older like I said.... He drives us up to pick it up tells her to go in and get it and takes off with me... Yep....

Again... This is not even DATE RAPE. I was not out with EITHER person... Was I beaten? No. Did I say no? Yes. Did I know what to do? NO!

Both these two disgusted me. I look back at this age and know what it was in both cases. Set-ups... By the guys... Bet on it. Both cases had someone IN ME I did not want near me that way.

The pizza thing??? I loved her folks. She was my best friend... We got back and she was so mad she had been waiting with a pizza forever (long before cells). I say we got back like it was "we" it was not, he took off with me... She was mad at me. She was mad at him. She was very upset. I was sick to death and traumatized (seriously) and I still had to spend the night at her house... I did not tell her then of course... His room was next to hers, no hall, no door. We had to walk through his to get to hers...

In later times, or later on I told her. Of course you can guess what I got.... Her brother would never... I never said he forced me physically, although there was no out but for a scene... Which woud have done no good as it was nowhere.

I am almost sick all these years later talking about it. If you want to use it to be nasty go ahead. People can compare or make the sexes identical but it is not true....To this day just sharing that, the thought of them and their "seed" in me after a few humps makes me ILL.

Women that cry wolf I can't stand. Did I ever report anything? No. Could it happen to a man or a boy? Of course, generally by another man. No female has the unit a man does...

To be fair though, Mary Kay Letourneau in the news ticked me off. He was what, 12? I am sorry for her kids and her family and her cancer, but the only reason she hits People Magazine and national news etc. is because she molested a 12 year old. I know they later married. Just saying...

Do NOT think you know how a female feels... Thank goodness it did not ruin me for life... But the grunt, grunt, spill of those two.... Disgusting...

 

[kdg411]

They sure as hell did not have a friendly/affectionate relationship with their rapist afterward. And they didn't show up 15 years after the fact to report the crime.

I agree with you on this statement. The victim who came forward in 2016 is difficult because she made her report only after someone reached out to her. Why didn't she go to the police after it happened?

 

[Howell]

Seriously do you do this on purpose? People start to have a real conversation with you and you become an arse and bold words and get nasty. Does it give you your jollies? Seriously? Women will never understand most likely what it is to be a man and not be able to get it up. Most men will never be able to understand that a woman can easily be raped as compared to a man. Is that detailed enough?

Most women have been at minimum date raped. I don't want to get personal but I told my hub any time, if I am sleeping, etc. I love to be woken up that way. Far more personal than I want to share... Because arse that he is even he knew you don't just assume probably because his first ones had headaches...

A date rape may not be a brutal stranger attack or it may. I have at least two that stand out to me in my life... Again I do not want to share that personal of things but I will go there to a point... The first, I was working, I was 16, and my baby sister was dating someone that drove... When I was done with work, I was going to go ride Main Street with a boy I had before more than once who never ever touched me or did a thing wrong. Little bossy sis comes in and says you are coming with us... Okay... I knew her bf and I knew the friend of his they had with... In fact both guys were a year older than I... I figured we were going home where she was supposed to be TOO at that point... I had a beater car first job probably was not running... My folks have never heard this...

For some reason we stop at someone's house... My sis and her bf go in and leave me in the back seat with the guy I also knew... I have a car hop uniform on... Well guess what...? And guess what else... My all knowing sis ya know I could not go with the nice boy (I am the older one) because who knows what may happen to me...? I just had no sense of my own ya know... I did not even dislike the "boy" I knew him... I doubt in his head he did anything wrong... To this day... I have hardly shared that ever... I don't think I have even called my sister out on it... I however was disgusted. I had someone's humping on me and his **** inside me... That I did not want. Was I restrained or beaten? No. Did I say no? Yes, yes and yes....

The other time, my very best friend's brother.... Again someone I would have never went near nor given a chance... I am staying over at her house... Her parents are not home... He generally was not around or at least spent any time with her. For some reason, he is nice that night... He orders a pizza for her and I etc. Was older like I said.... He drives us up to pick it up tells her to go in and get it and takes off with me... Yep....

Again... This is not even DATE RAPE. I was not out with EITHER person... Was I beaten? No. Did I say no? Yes. Did I know what to do? NO!

Both these two disgusted me. I look back at this age and know what it was in both cases. Set-ups... By the guys... Bet on it. Both cases had someone IN ME I did not want near me that way.

The pizza thing??? I loved her folks. She was my best friend... We got back and she was so mad she had been waiting with a pizza forever (long before cells). I say we got back like it was "we" it was not, he took off with me... She was mad at me. She was mad at him. She was very upset. I was sick to death and traumatized (seriously) and I still had to spend the night at her house... I did not tell her then of course... His room was next to hers, no hall, no door. We had to walk through his to get to hers...

In later times, or later on I told her. Of course you can guess what I got.... Her brother would never... I never said he forced me physically, although there was no out but for a scene... Which woud have done no good as it was nowhere.

I am almost sick all these years later talking about it. If you want to use it to be nasty go ahead. People can compare or make the sexes identical but it is not true....To this day just sharing that, the thought of them and their "seed" in me after a few humps makes me ILL.

Women that cry wolf I can't stand. Did I ever report anything? No. Could it happen to a man or a boy? Of course, generally by another man. No female has the unit a man does...

To be fair though, Mary Kay Letourneau in the news ticked me off. He was what, 12? I am sorry for her kids and her family and her cancer, but the only reason she hits People Magazine and national news etc. is because she molested a 12 year old. I know they later married. Just saying...

Do NOT think you know how a female feels... Thank goodness it did not ruin me for life... But the grunt, grunt, spill of those two.... Disgusting...

I'm not trying to be an arse at all. Seriously. CD wasn't trying to have a real conversation. He ignored both the question I asked and the point I was making. Instead, he brings up a totally different scenario which has nothing to do with what we're talking about, placing himself in the role of "Mr. Chivalry".

Nonetheless(despite your insult), I appreciate you sharing your personal experiences, GB. I can only imagine how difficult that is. But I think you may have misunderstood my point. In the situations you've described, there's no question in my mind that you were raped. You were young, placed in a difficult situation, one where there was no expectation of sexual activity, one in which you likely felt threatened, and you clearly said "NO".

Now, I would ask you to compare your experiences to the one described by CD. One where a woman willingly gets in bed with a man, fully engages with him, never says "NO", and only hesitates a moment before penetration. Is she a rape victim? You, of all people, ought to be the most offended and insulted by anyone who would try to equate these scenarios. THAT was my entire point. I believe you're a real rape victim. The woman CD described could not credibly claim to be a rape victim.

 

[Howell]

Do you believe it is only rape if a woman or man is dragged off the street and violent attacked by a stranger,or if the person remained completely clothed and sober at all times?.
If a woman happens to be drunk at a frat party and someone has sex with her if she passes out on a sofa is that rape or did she consent because she passed out?, does the fact that she is passed out and incapable of saying yes or no imply that she has consented purely because she dared to enjoy herself at a party?.
Rape is rape no matter the preceding circumstances and if a person says no or stop at ANY point and the other person carries on then that is rape,anyone is entitled to change their mind at the last minute,even if they have been engaging thus far and I have to say I find it quite distasteful that you appear to believe otherwise,there isnt a point of no return ever, even if someone is active engaged in penetrative intercourse they still have the right to say stop if they change their mind and any normal decent human being would respect that and stop.
It isnt black and white,there is a grey area.
Yes,absolutely women cry wolf sometimes,many times even and I find that absolutely disgusting and THAT is an insult and a betrayal of all genuine victims,and anyone who does so should be punished to the full extent of the law.

I feel that your mentality comes across as victim blaming, are you the type if person who would ask a young girl who was attacked walking through her local park if she was dressed provocatively,or the girl in the bar why she accepted drinks from a man if she didnt intend to sleep with him?, this is the vibe I get from your posts but if this is not the case then please accept my apologies.

If nothing else, you're pretty intuitive. The vibe you're getting is entirely correct. I think you and I just have very different worldviews. Polar opposite, in fact. What you call "rape" is not necessarily rape; preceding circumstances DO matter. The law in virtually every state, as I'm aware, considers preceding circumstances. Having sex with an obviously unconscious woman is rape, we all agree on that, but HAVING SEX WITH A DRUNK WOMAN IS NOT RAPE, no matter how she feels about it the following day. And no, 5 minutes into intercourse, you no longer get to change your mind and cry "rape". You can call him a dirtbag if you want, but he's not a "rapist".

 

[Howell]

I agree with you on this statement. The victim who came forward in 2016 is difficult because she made her report only after someone reached out to her. Why didn't she go to the police after it happened?

That's what I mean. I can understand why a woman may not report it immediately, but if she truly felt she had been assaulted by this person, I can not understand why she would continue to have friendly/affectionate contact with her alleged attacker. The Weinstein case is a perfect example. If he assaulted you before, why would you go again to meet him alone in his hotel room? If he raped you, why would you send him emails telling him that you love him?

 

[Cousin Dupree]

I so agree and it is not just rape it is also domestic abuse or assault of a female. I don't know that I feel it is getting better. I feel in some ways this country never came forward and in fact is slipping backwards if it ever did come that far...

For one thing, and this is a fact, even aside from it being females, making something a domestic etc. instead of assault or battery keeps crime figures down in statistics. In my home area they often end up a disorderly!!! But it is not just females and rape and domestic either. States keep murder figures down the same way. They cut a deal, etc. charge more lightly and all of a sudden the homicide rate is down in a huge city... This is a fact.

Tricks are also played that way with things like unemployment numbers. It is one reason I am not a big fan of statistics. They can be played any which way the "interest" of the parties behind them want them to look...

As a female and I think most can identify, I can look back to this day at this old age and remember how shocked I was to find as I hit let's say 12 and older (more actually but probably when those instincts started but I was so naive), to find men my dad's age who were always friends or known to us basically looking at me differently or in later years with knowing the words, "hitting" on me... I was disgusted... I won't go further into it and thank goodness never had anything happen but I know of some who did.... Some of these people still think their ****** don't stick and are disgusting families. Try babysitting at 12 or 13, you learn real quick who treats their wife like **** and which "father" gives you a creepy feeling as he drives you home after babysitting.

The men will be men world still exists and courthouses and little towns are still in many ways heavily weighted with old men. I truly do not mean to sound sexist and I sure did not mean to sidetrack but it has always went on, still does and I am not sure much has really changed for the better. The Harvey Weinsteins and Jeffrey Epsteins, thank goodness, notice is being taken and they are big names but it goes on on a smaller scale everywhere.

i am sorry to hear you knew someone who was raped that brutally. I had the hell beaten out of me once. ONCE. There never was another chance, I did NOT stay. I found it was looked at as a disorderly or something and I was so close to death... And I threw a FIT. And lived in FEAR. A story for another day... Yep my same old little local county... I can document all of it... I DID MY RESEARCH. I FOUND HIS PRIOR **** in other states. Etc.

I suppose I had better stop... Sorry.

ETA: I also found out which male friends of my dad and men in our little hick community were GOOD MEN and would NEVER act such a way. My dad was one. My best friend's dad was another. The family who was closest to us growing up, their dad was another. We were "daughters" of friends not something you take interest in when they grow up or are growing up...

The Stanford rape case gave rise to stronger legislation. So that's getting better. It's not nearly where it needs to be, or even close, but it is getting better. JMO

 

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

HAVING SEX WITH A DRUNK WOMAN IS NOT RAPE

Actually, having sex with an intoxicated person IS considered rape in several states. Though not all. And the law really doesn't care what someone thinks of it.


CALIFORNIA Penal Code section 261 (a)(3) reads:

Rape is an act of sexual intercourse accomplished with a person not the spouse of the perpetrator where a person is prevented from resisting by any intoxicating or anesthetic substance, or any controlled substance, and this condition was known, or reasonably should have been known by the accused.

If the party is so intoxicated that he or she cannot give legal consent, he/she is “prevented from resisting.” In order to give legal consent, a person must be able to exercise reasonable judgment. In other words, the person must be able to understand and weigh the physical nature of the act, its moral character, and probable consequences. Legal consent is consent given freely and voluntarily by someone who knows the nature of the act involved.

This means, if the other party says “yes, yes, yes,” both before and during sexual intercourse, you could still be charged with rape.


WASHINGTON WAC 504-26-221 reads:

Even if words or conduct alone seem to imply consent, sexual activity is nonconsensual when:
(c) A reasonable person would or should know that the other person lacks the mental capacity at the time of the sexual activity to be able to understand the nature or consequences of the act, whether that incapacity is produced by illness, defect, the influence of alcohol or another substance, or some other cause. When alcohol or drugs are involved, a person is considered incapacitated or unable to give valid consent if the individual cannot fully understand the details of the sexual interaction (i.e., who, what, when, where, why, and how), and/or the individual lacks the capacity to reasonably understand the situation and to make rational, reasonable decisions.



FLORIDA statue 794.011 reads:

“Consent” means intelligent, knowing, and voluntary consent and does not include coerced submission. “Consent” shall not be deemed or construed to mean the failure by the alleged victim to offer physical resistance to the offender.
(c) “Mentally incapacitated” means temporarily incapable of appraising or controlling a person’s own conduct due to the influence of a narcotic, anesthetic, or intoxicating substance administered without his or her consent or due to any other act committed upon that person without his or her consent.

The absence of a “no” does not equal consent. And, according to the UF Police Department, consent is not the “inability to make decisions due to intoxication by any substance.” Here’s the thing: You can’t legally consent to sex if you are intoxicated above the legal limit.


There are more. I'm just not going to search all 50 states.
In the same way that a person should not have sex with a child because they cannot legally consent to sex, or a severely mentally challenged person with the mind of a child because they cannot legally consent to sex...they should not have sex with a severely intoxicated person because they cannot LEGALLY consent to sex.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

Seriously do you do this on purpose? People start to have a real conversation with you and you become an arse and bold words and get nasty. Does it give you your jollies? Seriously? Women will never understand most likely what it is to be a man and not be able to get it up. Most men will never be able to understand that a woman can easily be raped as compared to a man. Is that detailed enough?

Most women have been at minimum date raped. I don't want to get personal but I told my hub any time, if I am sleeping, etc. I love to be woken up that way. Far more personal than I want to share... Because arse that he is even he knew you don't just assume probably because his first ones had headaches...

A date rape may not be a brutal stranger attack or it may. I have at least two that stand out to me in my life... Again I do not want to share that personal of things but I will go there to a point... The first, I was working, I was 16, and my baby sister was dating someone that drove... When I was done with work, I was going to go ride Main Street with a boy I had before more than once who never ever touched me or did a thing wrong. Little bossy sis comes in and says you are coming with us... Okay... I knew her bf and I knew the friend of his they had with... In fact both guys were a year older than I... I figured we were going home where she was supposed to be TOO at that point... I had a beater car first job probably was not running... My folks have never heard this...

For some reason we stop at someone's house... My sis and her bf go in and leave me in the back seat with the guy I also knew... I have a car hop uniform on... Well guess what...? And guess what else... My all knowing sis ya know I could not go with the nice boy (I am the older one) because who knows what may happen to me...? I just had no sense of my own ya know... I did not even dislike the "boy" I knew him... I doubt in his head he did anything wrong... To this day... I have hardly shared that ever... I don't think I have even called my sister out on it... I however was disgusted. I had someone's humping on me and his **** inside me... That I did not want. Was I restrained or beaten? No. Did I say no? Yes, yes and yes....

The other time, my very best friend's brother.... Again someone I would have never went near nor given a chance... I am staying over at her house... Her parents are not home... He generally was not around or at least spent any time with her. For some reason, he is nice that night... He orders a pizza for her and I etc. Was older like I said.... He drives us up to pick it up tells her to go in and get it and takes off with me... Yep....

Again... This is not even DATE RAPE. I was not out with EITHER person... Was I beaten? No. Did I say no? Yes. Did I know what to do? NO!

Both these two disgusted me. I look back at this age and know what it was in both cases. Set-ups... By the guys... Bet on it. Both cases had someone IN ME I did not want near me that way.

The pizza thing??? I loved her folks. She was my best friend... We got back and she was so mad she had been waiting with a pizza forever (long before cells). I say we got back like it was "we" it was not, he took off with me... She was mad at me. She was mad at him. She was very upset. I was sick to death and traumatized (seriously) and I still had to spend the night at her house... I did not tell her then of course... His room was next to hers, no hall, no door. We had to walk through his to get to hers...

In later times, or later on I told her. Of course you can guess what I got.... Her brother would never... I never said he forced me physically, although there was no out but for a scene... Which woud have done no good as it was nowhere.

I am almost sick all these years later talking about it. If you want to use it to be nasty go ahead. People can compare or make the sexes identical but it is not true....To this day just sharing that, the thought of them and their "seed" in me after a few humps makes me ILL.

Women that cry wolf I can't stand. Did I ever report anything? No. Could it happen to a man or a boy? Of course, generally by another man. No female has the unit a man does...

To be fair though, Mary Kay Letourneau in the news ticked me off. He was what, 12? I am sorry for her kids and her family and her cancer, but the only reason she hits People Magazine and national news etc. is because she molested a 12 year old. I know they later married. Just saying...

Do NOT think you know how a female feels... Thank goodness it did not ruin me for life... But the grunt, grunt, spill of those two.... Disgusting...

That must have been hideous to go through.

 

[GrandmaBear]

I'm not trying to be an arse at all. Seriously. CD wasn't trying to have a real conversation. He ignored both the question I asked and the point I was making. Instead, he brings up a totally different scenario which has nothing to do with what we're talking about, placing himself in the role of "Mr. Chivalry".

Nonetheless(despite your insult), I appreciate you sharing your personal experiences, GB. I can only imagine how difficult that is. But I think you may have misunderstood my point. In the situations you've described, there's no question in my mind that you were raped. You were young, placed in a difficult situation, one where there was no expectation of sexual activity, one in which you likely felt threatened, and you clearly said "NO".

Now, I would ask you to compare your experiences to the one described by CD. One where a woman willingly gets in bed with a man, fully engages with him, never says "NO", and only hesitates a moment before penetration. Is she a rape victim? You, of all people, ought to be the most offended and insulted by anyone who would try to equate these scenarios. THAT was my entire point. I believe you're a real rape victim. The woman CD described could not credibly claim to be a rape victim.

I don't think so. Both CD and myself were talking about rape in one form or another and how devastating it can be and the different forms of it. While my post and his may be nothing alike in their points, I still think they apply to the overall conversation. For me it comes down to again, no one has a right to touch or abuse another person's body other than in self defense. Another very scary reality for a female rape victim is the possibility of pregnancy.

I understand your point and see no real need to compare the experiences. It is different and in the case you are talking about, at minimum it is playing with fire and if the woman is playing a game it is a stupid one. However, the law is the law whether you agree with it or not and like I said far above, a man should be able to control himself, he may well not like it but he is making his own choice turned on or not.

I already regret sharing something so personal but I will leave it for the moment. I did so only to point out rape is rape and not all are the same.

The situation you talk about if the woman is playing a game I have no liking of her behavior and as stated before, I do not like people who shout wolf in any type of situation. The man however if he continues is in the wrong and makes a choice.
A female losing her virginity would be another example in a way. She may often say no right at the point her boyfriend thinks he is finally going to get some. From pain or fear. And even perhaps "during" or partly into the act... I can't think of a way to put it any nicer. It is still on the male to stop when asked...

In my case it was wrong and I have let it go not that I should have had to. It was only to give an example and I will bet you most women have had something like that happen. I can guarantee you I doubt either male thinks they did anything wrong. I am not even sure they know that I feel they did. I cannot even compare it and would not to rape by a total stranger or brutality along with it, I cannot imagine what one goes through in those cases and the fear it instills.

I do get your overall point of length of time and such and to come back to this case or any other, I think each needs to be looked at on their own merits and all cases are different. In my example, I was put in an unfair position but when it also comes to adult women, in SOME cases so are they when someone is a superior to them... Would I say they are the same as a minor going through such a thing? No.

I think your beef is with the law(s). I can understand that to a point and even disagree with some laws and for sure some sentences myself, not even relating to this subject.

And to your other point, I take great offense at those that for instance make claims that are not true... The problem is it is often hard to say when that is the case. However, there are often even children who are not believed and I have great trouble with that.

For every victim who comes forward there are probably thousands that don't because they know they will be skewered on the stand and/or not believed... They end up just living with it...

I don't know what the answer is. I do think the subject is worthy of discussion and understanding from all sides. Or trying to understand...

Jmo.

 

[GrandmaBear]

The Stanford rape case gave rise to stronger legislation. So that's getting better. It's not nearly where it needs to be, or even close, but it is getting better. JMO

That is a good point. What was the case in the last few years, maybe a bit longer, where rapist was a college jock and the judge went extremely light on him or gave him basically nothing? It slowly gained steam and the the Judge was basically run out of office. Maybe even recalled or petitioned...? There is some progress but I don't think it is enough nor will we ever see it get to where it should be... Imo.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

That is a good point. What was the case in the last few years, maybe a bit longer, where rapist was a college jock and the judge went extremely light on him or gave him basically nothing? It slowly gained steam and the the Judge was basically run out of office. Maybe even recalled or petitioned...? There is some progress but I don't think it is enough nor will we ever see it get to where it should be... Imo.

I think it's the same case.

 

[GrandmaBear]

That must have been hideous to go through.

It was a long time ago and at the time it bothered me greatly... Very badly. Today thank goodness it is a blip on my radar and only talking here about this subject brought it to mind.. I dare say most women can identify though and have been through similar. Sadly. I didn't share it as a "poor me" so much as to give examples of types of rape... Thanks for the hug though! I have a worse example or two but I think I will shut my mouth about them for the moment. One was something a friend went through and one is something a sister went through. Sadly I think we all have examples or know people who have suffered such things...

 

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

The woman CD described could not credibly claim to be a rape victim.

Legally, yes, she can. Legally, consent can be revoked at any time. It may seem ridiculous, but according to the law, it's rape.

You can call him a dirtbag if you want, but he's not a "rapist".

You can call her a "tease" and whatever else you want to call her. And I'd probably agree. But again, consent can be revoked at any time. If he were to continue, *legally*, that would be considered rape. She verbalized NO, he does not stop. That's rape. Is she a nice person? Probably not. She probably got a kick out of it. Morally? She's probably in the wrong here. But that doesn't change things legally.

If someone can't get affirmative consent ("YES!"), and have the person literally asking you for what they want, they need to work on their game. Most people don't want to have sex with someone who is...less than enthusiastic. Nobody owes anyone else their body. No matter what the preceding circumstances are.


If I go to buy a car, and I tell the salesman yes, I want to buy this car! And we go back to the office and he draws up all the papers. And we talk and we get all the details worked out and he runs my credit and gets all the insurance nailed down. And I've literally pulled the down payment out of my purse. And he puts the contract on the desk to sign. And I say, "Ya know what? Nevermind." Similar. Obviously one is with your body and one is a car. But the idea is the same. I got that salesman "all worked up" for nothing!

 

[Cousin Dupree]

That is a good point. What was the case in the last few years, maybe a bit longer, where rapist was a college jock and the judge went extremely light on him or gave him basically nothing? It slowly gained steam and the the Judge was basically run out of office. Maybe even recalled or petitioned...? There is some progress but I don't think it is enough nor will we ever see it get to where it should be... Imo.

It is the same case: People v. Turner - Wikipedia

 

[GrandmaBear]

I think it's the same case.

Is it? There have been so many "college" ones, I get them mixed up at times... Judge stayed in office for some time though. I honestly wonder what he was paid/bribed to give such a sentence (lack of one)..

 

[GrandmaBear]

Actually, having sex with an intoxicated person IS considered rape in several states. Though not all. And the law really doesn't care what someone thinks of it.


CALIFORNIA Penal Code section 261 (a)(3) reads:

Rape is an act of sexual intercourse accomplished with a person not the spouse of the perpetrator where a person is prevented from resisting by any intoxicating or anesthetic substance, or any controlled substance, and this condition was known, or reasonably should have been known by the accused.

If the party is so intoxicated that he or she cannot give legal consent, he/she is “prevented from resisting.” In order to give legal consent, a person must be able to exercise reasonable judgment. In other words, the person must be able to understand and weigh the physical nature of the act, its moral character, and probable consequences. Legal consent is consent given freely and voluntarily by someone who knows the nature of the act involved.

This means, if the other party says “yes, yes, yes,” both before and during sexual intercourse, you could still be charged with rape.


WASHINGTON WAC 504-26-221 reads:

Even if words or conduct alone seem to imply consent, sexual activity is nonconsensual when:
(c) A reasonable person would or should know that the other person lacks the mental capacity at the time of the sexual activity to be able to understand the nature or consequences of the act, whether that incapacity is produced by illness, defect, the influence of alcohol or another substance, or some other cause. When alcohol or drugs are involved, a person is considered incapacitated or unable to give valid consent if the individual cannot fully understand the details of the sexual interaction (i.e., who, what, when, where, why, and how), and/or the individual lacks the capacity to reasonably understand the situation and to make rational, reasonable decisions.



FLORIDA statue 794.011 reads:

“Consent” means intelligent, knowing, and voluntary consent and does not include coerced submission. “Consent” shall not be deemed or construed to mean the failure by the alleged victim to offer physical resistance to the offender.
(c) “Mentally incapacitated” means temporarily incapable of appraising or controlling a person’s own conduct due to the influence of a narcotic, anesthetic, or intoxicating substance administered without his or her consent or due to any other act committed upon that person without his or her consent.

The absence of a “no” does not equal consent. And, according to the UF Police Department, consent is not the “inability to make decisions due to intoxication by any substance.” Here’s the thing: You can’t legally consent to sex if you are intoxicated above the legal limit.


There are more. I'm just not going to search all 50 states.
In the same way that a person should not have sex with a child because they cannot legally consent to sex, or a severely mentally challenged person with the mind of a child because they cannot legally consent to sex...they should not have sex with a severely intoxicated person because they cannot LEGALLY consent to sex.

Exactly. Great points and citing of statute.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

I can easily say that in all of my sexual encounters I have never raped a woman by any definition I've put forth or others here have. It has always been consensual before, during and after because the women I've made love to, I've loved. The women I've had sex with I've respected.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

Is it? There have been so many "college" ones, I get them mixed up at times... Judge stayed in office for some time though. I honestly wonder what he was paid/bribed to give such a sentence (lack of one)..

The sad thing is I don't think he needed any bribery. He probably just saw it as a "good kid" made one mistake.