Wednesday 16th April 2025
Afternoon
Morning update is complete and is at post 8650.
Lori Vallow Daybell is on trial in Maricopa County, Arizona, on one charge of conspiracy to commit the murder of Charles Vallow, her fourth husband. Nate Eaton is live in the courtroom with updates. Please excuse any typos. Times listed below are in Mountain Standard Time, so they are an hour behind Idaho. (Arizona does not observe Daylight Saving Time.) The most recent updates are at the top.
4:09 p.m. We are adjourned. So much to talk about tonight at 8 p.m. on ‘Courtroom Insider.’
4:08 p.m. Court will meet tomorrow at 10:45 a.m. to finalize jury instructions.
4:06 p.m. Treena suggests that closing arguments should be on Monday. Lori agrees. Jury will report at 10:30 a.m. on Monday. Judge asks if Lori is prepared to rest today. That means she can not testify or change her mind.
4:05 p.m. Lori has nothing to add after Treena says there was sufficient evidence. Judge finds there is substantial evidence that a jury could find the defendant guilty. Judge denies Lori motion. He asks if evidence will be presented tomorrow. Defense rests.
4:03 p.m. Lori says the state did not present evidence that she conspired to commit a premeditated murder. She wants that on the record. Treena responds that there was sufficient evidence that the defendant and Alex Cox conspired to commit the murder.
4:03 p.m. Two people on the state’s original witness list – Det. Nathan Moffat and Jason Hunsaker – did not testify.
4:01 p.m. Judge asks Lori if she plans on presenting evidence. She consults with her attorneys.
4 p.m. State has no further witnesses and rests.
3:58 p.m. This is the photo of Charles and Adam messaging about his flight info. No further questions for this witness.
3:57 p.m. Judge asks the question: regarding the pictures on Alex’s phone sent to Lori – what time was on the phone? 2:13 p.m.
3:55 p.m. Judge now discussing the question with the prosecutor and defense attorney as white noise is played in the courtroom.
3:54 p.m. Duncan spent months going through the iCloud data. Treena has no further questions. There is at least one question from the jury.
3:53 p.m. Treena asks if the physical scene itself was inconsistent with what was originally told to police. Yes. Did it require additional research into all the different iClouds, cell phone records, etc? Yes.
3:52 p.m. When Duncan began investigating the stuff in the iCloud, he didn’t understand the talk about Ned. He had to consult with others, like Sarena Sharp, for details about what is meant. Treena talking about Nephi. Duncan says he spoke with LDS Church members and they spoke about Nephi the same way Adam did – that he was commanded to kill a wicked man.
3:51 p.m. Duncan never had information that Janis or Barry or Summer were at the scene. Summer was actually headed out of town.
3:49 p.m. Duncan asks if the doctor who performs the autopsy goes to scenes. He does not. The autopsy is done at the medical examiner’s office. Duncan saw the bullet in line with the shoulder and defect in the ground.
3:48 p.m. Treena asks if DNA is only found in blood. It’s found in saliva, sweat and other ways. If the bat belonged to Tylee, her DNA would most likely be on it. Duncan says he looked at the bat and there was no visible blood and no damage to the tip of the plastic part of the bat.
3:47 p.m. Treena asks about Duncan not knowing the background of all the individuals in the case at the beginning of the case. As Duncan learned more about all the people, he obtained all the information, phone records, iCloud, etc. He needed probable cause in order to get the information.
3:45 p.m. What we have seen in court is just a “grain” of what he has gone through on the iCloud accounts.
3:44 p.m. Treena asks about the iCloud accounts. Duncan says each iCloud account has terabytes of data. “It’s tedious because you can only look at one particular iCloud at a time, go through that and make notes.” You then have to close out and go into the other iCloud – back and forth to compare.
3:43 p.m. After Duncan began learning more about the case, they realized how extensive the timeline was and what they were originally told didn’t match.
3:42 p.m. Treena begins by asking about Luminol. This is generally used after a scene is cleaned up and there is no visible blood, Duncan says. They were under the impression the homicide occurred five minutes before the police arrived and they were not expecting a cleaned-up scene. They were looking for visible blood, hairs on the bat, etc. They did not see any of that.
3:42 p.m. “You have charged me with a crime, correct?” Lori asks. Duncan: “I have not.” The state of Arizona charged her. She asks why these tests were not done. Lori has nothing further. Treena will now follow up with questions.
3:41 p.m. Lori asks if Luminol was used on the gun. It wasn’t. He says there was no blood on the gun. Lori says as the case agent, they have access to do testing on the bat and gun. “Why didn’t you test them?” He says he didn’t think it was needed. “You make choices and decisions based on the facts presented to us. I did not feel that was necessary.”
3:40 p.m. Lori asks if it was important to Luminol the bat. Duncan says there was no blood present on the bat and they decided they were not going to do that particular process. Lori asks if it’s possible to not visually see blood on the bat but it’s still on there. Duncaninvestigated says protein could still be on the bat.
3:38 p.m. Lori asks Duncan if he feels like he sought out facts and this case. Duncan says yes. Lori asks if he is confident in that. Duncan says he is. Lori asks Duncan if he met with Moffat to review the case when Moffat got promoted. Duncan says before he left, Moffat dropped the case notebook on his desk and went on his way.
3:37 p.m. Lori asks Duncan who is on his team and who is working on this case right now. Lori says he’s the only person on it right now. Back in the day, it was Duncan and Coons. Periodically Det. Werther did some work. They had a “small cramped area” and just talked with each other about the case.
3:35 p.m. Lori says Duncan if he has knowledge that Lori’s text message about Nephi was similar to an order to kill. Duncan is not. Lori asks if Alex was a stand-up comedian and was always joking. Duncan knows he was a stand-up comedian. Lori says Alex was often joking and half his text messages were jokes.
3:34 p.m. Treena objects to the question, judge overrules and says the question can be asked. Duncan asks Lori to repeat the question. She doesn’t remember the question and asks the court reporter to repeat it. Judge repeats the question. Duncan was not aware of the many Nephis in the Book of Mormon.
3:33 p.m. Lori asks Duncan if he read the Book of Mormon. Duncan says no. “You just ask people about Nephi?” Duncan says he did an internet search and spoke with church members. Lori asks Duncan how long he did his research. “I couldn’t tell you,” Duncan says. Lori says there are 25 stories about Nephi in the Book of Mormon and there are four different prophets named Nephi in the Book of Mormon.
3:32 p.m. Lori asks if he forms a conclusion and sticks to it and only investigates things that lead to it. Duncan says no. Lori asks about the story of Nephi and asks Duncan what research he did. Duncan says he Googled who was Nephi and what did Nephi stand for. He says he has also asked members of the LDS Church to tell them about Nephi and they all tell him about the story of killing Laban. Lori asks Duncan if he’s aware there are many stories of Nephi in multiple books in the Book of Mormon. Duncan is not aware.
3:31 p.m. Lori asks Duncan how many interviews Summer has had with the police department. Duncan doesn’t know. Lori: More than one or two? Duncan: I don’t know. Lori: But you didn’t ask her any of the questions about the text messages that were on the screen? Duncan: I said no.
3:30 p.m. Lori: “So the only person in our family who got information from was the estranged brother in our family who didn’t know what was going on himself.” Prosecutor objects, judge sustains. Lori re-asks the question, another objection. Lori rephrases: “Is this your normal protocol to just talk to one witness and not the others?” Duncan says no.
3:29 p.m. Lori asks if he asked any of her family what they meant by those messages – then she says, “Did you ask me what I meant by those text messages?” He responds, “I couldn’t.”
3:28 p.m. Lori continues her cross-examination. She asks Duncan if Janis Cox was interviewed. “Did you read or watch her interview?” I have not. Duncan did not interview Summer. He has not watched her interview. He did not interview Barry Cox or watch his interview. “So the only source you have for this investigation is through our brother Adam.” Duncan says none of the people she mentioned were at the shooting.
3:27 p.m. We are back in the courtroom. Judge tells Lori she can’t ask the officer to testify about what other officers wrote or said in their reports. He can only testify about his own personal knowledge. Jurors are being brought in.
3:10 p.m. Lori asks for details on the walk-thru at the house. Treena objects – says the questions have already been asked. Judge sustains. Judge says we are taking afternoon break. Be back in 15 minutes.
3:08 p.m. Lori asks if not taking Alex’s phone was an oversight. Treena objects. Judge sustains. Lori asks if Alex’s phone was just given back to him that day. Duncan isn’t sure of the process – Moffat was the case agent that day.
3:06 p.m. Lori: “Wouldn’t that be crucial information that the police department didn’t bother to take?” Regarding Alex’s phone. Duncan says he would have taken it but at the time, Alex’s phone was not taken. “In lieu of that, what did you do to try and obtain that information?” Duncan says they got his call detail from the cell phone company.
3:05 p.m. Lori asks if there was any Cellebrite of Alex’s phone. Duncan says the only thing they have is his cell phone call records. Lori asks the protocol when someone hands over their phone. Duncan says it could be done with a search warrant or with consent. Lori asks for specifics on how it works.
3:04 p.m. Lori asks if Duncan knows who drove Alex to the police department. Officer Krautheim. Lori says, “The one I couldn’t remember…” Treena objects and judge tells Lori not to testify.
3:03 p.m. Lori asks if she turned her husband’s phone over when asked. Yes. Lori asks if Alex turned his phone over willingly. Duncan isn’t sure when or if Alex turned over his phone. Lori references a body camera when Alex turned over his phone. Duncan recalls seeing the video.
3:01 p.m. Lori asks if she, her brother and daughter willingly complied with police on July 11. Duncan can’t answer that. She tries to ask the same question with different words. Prosecutor objects based on hearsay. Judge sustains. Lori then asks, “According to all the reports given by everyone who was there, as far as you know, we fully cooperated with law enforcement?” Again – objection. Lori argues that he’s the case agent and should know.
3 p.m. Lori asks why Charles’ shirt and other items weren’t tested. “Because I was confident in the medical examiner’s report” that Charles had been shot twice, Duncan says. Lori asks if Duncan was at the shooting “to witness it with his eyes.” He says no.
2:59 p.m. Lori asks about the firearm being tested and the process that happens to get it tested. Lori asks if Duncan decided to test the gun after her investigator asked why it hadn’t been tested. Duncan says he has never spoken with her investigator.
2:57 p.m. Lori says if the bat has been tested for DNA and Charles’ DNA was on there, it would have backed up Tylee’s interview that Charles grabbed it. Prosecutor objects, judge sustains and tells jury not to consider what was just said.
2:56 p.m. Lori: “When you’re doing an investigation, are you not trying to figure out what happened?” Duncan says yes. Lori asks whose responsibility it is to get the bat tested for DNA. Duncan says it would be him, as the new case agent, or Det. Moffat when he was the case agent.
2:55 p.m. Lori asks if a DNA test would have found blood on the bat. Duncan says blood would be visible on the bat and they didn’t see any blood on the bat.
2:53 p.m. Lori asks if Duncan knew who was interviewed and tested in the case. He is aware. Lori asks about the bat being tested for fingerprints. Results were inconclusive. Correct. Lori asks about the bat being swabbed for DNA and sent to the lab. Duncan says that was never tested. Lori asks why not. Duncan says the bat was owned by Tylee in a house owned by Lori and a house where Alex was staying…plus Charles could have had access to the bat. So if someone touched the bat at some point, DNA could be on it…so a DNA test wouldn’t have proven much, Duncan explains.
2:51 p.m. Lori asks if Duncan has read all the reports since he became the case agent. Duncan says yes, at one point or another, he has. Lori asks if Duncan read Werther’s report. Duncan has. Lori asks repeated questions about the walk-thru and the prosecutor objects based on hearsay, asked-and-answered. Judge sustains.
2:50 p.m. Lori asks if a body camera was worn. Det. Werther was wearing a body cam but Duncan says it malfunctioned and did not record. Lori asks if each of the detectives wrote reports about the walk-thru because there was no body cam. Duncan says it would have been included in their report.
2:49 p.m. Lori asks if everyone left the scene at 4:30 p.m. Duncan says yes. Some may have stayed behind and typed notes in their car, but the search warrant was complete around 4:30-4:45 p.m. Lori asks about a walk-thru with Alex. Duncan was present. So was Moffat, Werther, Coons, and crime scene technician Jordan.
2:47 p.m. Lori asks about Charles being taken away in an ambulance. Duncan says he never went in an ambulance. “He didn’t go in an ambulance?” No – his body was taken by the medical examiner. Lori asks Duncan to describe what he did when he went into the house.
2:46 p.m. Lori wants clarification on when he went into the house – before or after the search warrant. He says original first responders went in and then everyone got out of the house until the warrant was obtained. Duncan did not go into the house until he had the search warrant. Lori has said, “I’m confused” a few times and Treena objects. Judge says, “Just ask the question.”
2:45 p.m. Lori asks what time Duncan got to the scene. He arrived shortly after 9:15 a.m. and left around 4:30 p.m. Lori asked if he was at the house the entire time. He did leave for a short time to obtain a saw to get the flooring and baseboard out, but then he came back.
2:44 p.m. Lori asks Duncan what he did differently than Moffat when he took over the case. Duncan says he didn’t really do anything different, but he reviewed what Moffat had done and continued to spend time investigating.
2:43 p.m. Lori gathers her items and walks to the lectern. She asks when Duncan became the case agent. June 2020. She asks about the prior case agent – Det. Moffat. He got promoted to Lt. and then Duncan took over.
2:41 p.m. We see an exhibit showing the Wedding Ceremony Contract between Chad Daybell and Lori Ryan. This photo was found on the iCloud. The date of the wedding was Nov. 5, 2019. “So four months after Charles Vallow was shot and killed inside the defendant’s home, she has remarried to Chad Daybell?” Duncan: “Yes.” Treena has nothing further. Lori will now cross.
2:40 p.m. Treena moves to admit evidence. By the way, I believe the photo of Chad with Alan Osmond is the first time the jury has seen a picture of Chad.
2:39 p.m. Treena asks Duncan if Lori was married to Charles Vallow on July 11. He says yes. Treena asks if there is evidence of when Lori became Lori Daybell. He says he found evidence on the iCloud that Chad and Lori got married in Hawaii. Specifically, wedding photos.
2:37 p.m. Chad says, “It will be interesting if it got changed after he got two bullets in his chest.” Lori: “I don’t think it could have. You can’t change it after the death date. They would review that.” Lori says she thinks Kay is the beneficiary. She says she’s going to shower and give him a blessing.
2:36 p.m. Chad suggests that maybe the name on the beneficiary was forged. “You should have a good paper trail to prove it.” Chad: “I love you. This is terrible. It’s probably another stepin bringing down the Gadiantons, especially Brandon.” Treena asks Duncan what Gadiantons are. He is not sure.
2:35 p.m. On July 18, Chad and Lori text back and forth about the beneficiary. Lori says, “It’s a spear through my heart. Who do you think he changed it to? Brandon or Kay?” Chad asks if she can tell who gets the money. Lori says she might be able to check when she gets Charles’ computer on Sunday.
2:33 p.m. On July 17, 2018, Melanie 2 sent a message to Lori that said, “I took a photo with Alan Osmond for Mark.” We see the photo of Chad with Alan Osmond.
2:31 p.m. Lori and Melanie 2, aka Chad, sent multiple messages back and forth. There was a conversation between the two of them about life insurance. Treena moves to admit an exhibit.
2:30 p.m. Treena: “Now that Charles is dead, there’s a very open phone relationship between Lori and Chad?” Duncan replies, “Yes.” Duncan found a Melanie 2 in the contacts. The number linked in the contact of Melanie 2 in Lori’s iCloud was linked to Chad Daybell. The photo on Melanie 2 was Chad’s.
2:27 p.m. Now there are messages between Lori and Chad about the life insurance. She isn’t getting the money but she will still get the Social Security payments. It’s on July 18 when she’s telling Chad she will get the Social Security money. There are multiple affirmations of love back and forth every day.
2:26 p.m. Treena asks where Chad was living during this time. He was in Idaho. The messages continue until Chad said he needed a shower.
2:25 p.m. Messages about “affirmations of love” and “cheek to cheek, loin to loin” between the couple.
2:23 p.m. Treena asks if there were “messages of love” between the two. There were. Treena says we won’t read through the entire story, but the timeline of the story matches up to when Chad and Lori met at Preparing a People. On July 14, Chad messages Lori about clearing the Houston house “to remove the darkness he caused.” Charles was living in Houston.
2:20 p.m. Treena moves to admit the James and Elena story. Before getting to that, we see text messages between Chad and Lori talking about Lori’s family. Now Chad begins talking about how much Raphael is “deeply, crazily, madly in love with Lili.” Chad is Raphael, Lili is Lori.
2:17 p.m. Duncan noticed a romantic relationship between Chad and Lori in their text messages. There were obvious romantic messages. “In these text messages, did Chad wrote a romantic story about Lori and himself that he texted and emailed to her?” Duncan: “He did.” Treena asks if they had other names for them. “James and Elena.” You can read the story
here.
2:16 p.m. After Lori was interviewed by the police and brought back to the residence, there was a call between Lori and Chad. There are another call a bit later that lasted a little over 8 minutes. This was around the time Det. Ynclan called Lori and asked her to come back to the scene. At 5:42 p.m., there was a call between Chad and Lori that lasted over 30 minutes. At 7 p.m., there was another call that lasted approximately 11 minutes. There was another call at 7:54 p.m. between Lori and Chad that was over 13 minutes.
2:14 p.m. There were text messages between Chad’s phone and Lori’s phone on July 11 and the surrounding dates. The iCloud did not save the content of those messages, so we don’t know what was said, but we do know they were texting.
2:13 p.m. As Duncan was looking through the text messages, he was having to figure out who some of these people were. Duncan says he learned Bubba was Chad Daybell. Treena asks if every text message saves in the iCloud. He says no, they do not. He also had to look at phone records to see if there were missing records.
2:11 p.m. Melani tells Lori she will head over. On July 11, Melani tells Lori that Zac is here. “He just acted like he was coming over to get his mail. He told Brandon, ‘oh hey, Adam is in town.’ Brandon acted like he didn’t know. I asked if he was moving in with Adam and he said he doesn’t know yet.” Melani sends another message, “I can fly out at 9pm tonight and back Sat afternoon.” These texts were sent after Charles was shot.
2:09 p.m. Melani and Lori continue to text back and forth. Melani is pretending to be sick for Lori as a distraction for Brandon. Melani responds that she is packing for the move and asks Lori,” Will you clear me?” Lori says, “Sure, I’ll work on your now. Do you want to come over for a blessing?” Melani: “Sure, I can, but is Charles coming? Is Al there?” Lori says Alex is there and Charles will come over in the morning.
2:07 p.m. Melani “So today doesn’t really matter, I have the kids. I should probably be sick again tomorrow?” Lori says, “I think so but I think they are moving their plans to tomorrow so they will still try to get rid of you.” There is a discussion with Melani about wanting to go to a wedding. Lori says: “I know baby. I’m so sorry. This is important to your mission even though I knoew it’s hard to just sit there.” Melani texts that she’s at the gym and asks if they can meet for lunch. Lori agrees to meet up for lunch. Melani says Brandon has been there the whole time. Lori tells Melani that maybe she can go to the wedding the night of the 11th. Melani needs to be there in the morning – but maybe she can go in the evening.
2:05 p.m. These messages are being sent to Melani as Lori is also texting Alex the messages referenced below. Back to the Melani messages – she says she can pretend to be sick but will go to the gym, temple and lunch. On July 10, Melani asks about Adam and Charles visiting. Lori responds that they are both coming tonight.
2:02 p.m. Lori sends a message to Melani: “U can’t go tomorrow. It’s a setup for both of us. Still on the phone finding out the details.” Melani responds, “Ok.” Lori replies, “They have an elaborate plan. I’ll call you soon.” Melani says she can take all the kids and defend herself. Lori tells her she can’t go. Lori says, “It’s coming to a head. This week will change everything.” Melani: “Probably why I’ve felt sick about going.”
2:01 p.m. Next exhibit is admitted. Messages between Melani B. and Lori. On July 9 at 7:21 p.m., Lori texts Melani: “Need to talk to you ASAP.” Then: “I’ll call you in 5. Finding out what to do.” Melani responds: “K” then “I took the kids to the temple they are chasing the bunnies.”
2 p.m. We are now streaming video here.
1:59 p.m. Duncan learned who Melani B. was – Melani Boudreaux. Lori’s niece. There are mentions of Mel throughout the text messages including the need for Mel not to go to Utah.
1:58 p.m. More text messages back and forth about where Adam might stay. Adam ends up staying at his parent’s house. On July 11, Summer texted Lori, “How’s it going today?” No response from Lori. Treena now asks about Melani.
1:55 p.m. Summer messages: “They are headed to Mimi’s house.” Then: “Zac and Adam are headed to the 4:20 Spiderman movie and then coming here.” Then: “I think so. Just me and the kids here rn.” Then: “JJ left his wrist bracelet and ukelele there.” These messages are all being sent on the afternoon of July 10. Adam does not know Charles is dead.
1:52 p.m. Prosecutor moves to admit text messages between Summer Shiflet, Lori’s sister, and Lori on July 10. A reminder – Zac is Adam’s son. Summer, or “Sum,” texts Lori: “Can you talk?” Then: “Mom is in the car with adam and sac on the way home from sky harbor.” Then: “She wanted to know if she should comfort him as a preemptive strike. I told her no…just to collect info.” Then Summer sends a text from Mimi: “Adam thinks Melani left for Utah today. Cause that’s the last he knew. I just left it that way!!”
1:51 p.m. Z, or zombies, and others who helped Charles were equally dark, Duncan says. The jurors seem focused on these messages. Some are taking notes.
1:50 p.m. Lori replies to Alex’s question: “Forced out I think.” Alex: “With his anxiety he wasn’t strong enough to fight back.” Lori: “hmm.”
1:48 p.m. Lori: “About the time he turned. Makes sense. He being dedicated to Bradon and Ned.” Alex: “So February.” Lori: “Yep.” Alex: “How did Zac die or was he forced out?” Lori: “It’s crazy I know. But it’s sad and true. Now we know all 24.”
1:46 p.m. Lori continues to speak of more Zs, Duncan testifies. Lori: “More sad news. Guess who the final z of the 24 ??” Alex: “Pops or brandon?” Lori: “Zac.” Then: “Nope. Think of Judas. Who loved me completely then turned against me??” Alex asks Lori when this happened.
1:45 p.m. Lori responds, “As of early Jan.” Alex: “That explains his interest in Charles.” Lori: “Ned recruited him shortly after! This is why!!” Another text: “He’s part of the 24.” Alex responds, “That makes sense. Wow.”
1:43 p.m. On Aug. 12, Lori texted Alex, “At social security.” These are not all the texts sent between the two of them during this period – just the ones relevant to the case, Treena says. On Sept. 3, Lori texted Alex, “Bad news on our brother!!” Alex responds, “What’s that?” Lori replies, “Z.” Alex responds, “Really. When was that?”
1:43 p.m. On July 13, Lori texted Alex, “Need you. Adam is freaking out.” Adam found out Charles was dead on that date.
1:41 p.m. Treena reminds the jury we were talking about the text messages from July 9 about Nephi. She shows a new page of the report with messages from July 10. There are messages between Alex and Lori about meeting up for lunch with Mel. Referring to Melani Pawlowski. Lori invites Alex over to her house. There are no text messages between Lori and Alex on July 11.
1:40 p.m. Jury is now back in the courtroom. Treena Kay continues questioning.
1:39 p.m. A smart-looking man in a blue shirt just walked in and the judge said, “We can’t get the projector on.” He pushes a few buttons and – wha la! It works now. I knew he was smart.
1:36 p.m. They are working on getting the technical issues resolved.
1:31 p.m. Det. Nathan Duncan is back on the witness stand. There are some technical problems so judge temporarily excuses the jury.
1:29 p.m. Back in the courtroom. Judge Justin Beresky is on the defense bench, Lori is at the table, Treena Kay is at the prosecutor’s table. Judge says he has a draft of potential jury instructions for the parties to review tonight. Jurors are being brought in.
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