LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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I don't believe in banning books nor burning books lmao however, I have made an exception. And their filings ARE BOOK LENGTH like some of my posts lol. I can say that because I do what they do. LMAO. And one reason I am no attorney nor could be, I could not write effectively, to the point and briefly if needed when something mattered.

So their filings are on my NO READ LIST as are CHAD DAYBELL'S BOOKS. And I dare say both are on the list of many others for the very same reasons.

I am not going to go find it and read it. I have a cat pan to change lol that is not a favorite chore but sounds a lot more desirable than reading another motion of theirs. However, if you want to bring it forward and link it I may consider it but not sure what you think it will change and if I regret it and am irritated to no end by it as usual I will find your version of planet earth or where you reside and come :fryingpan: you. And you'd better :cowcouch:
HERE YA GO. NO EXCUSES. ENJOY.

2024 4/15 suppress 2nd statement .pdf
 
No. That's for the movies. :giggling:
They have cameras in all the interview rooms (and they better be on!). The only difference is if you are free to go or not. If you are, you are being interviewed. If you are not, you are being interrogated.

Did he ever ask if he was free to go? They sure aren't going to volunteer that info, especially if they REALLY want to talk to you.
I don't even know that they have to tell you you are free to leave. THey just can't tell you you are not unless mirandize.

Some do have two way mirrors but think that likely more common in bigger cities and when of course a formal serious interrogation and in custody and not free to leave. Most do have cameras and a common tactic is to leave the subject along to see what they do or say or say to each other if more than one in the room. We have seen plenty of footage through the years of these moments in various cases.

We have what I believe to be a two way mirror or some kind of mirror camera at work. Where the money machine is, where the cash comes out or you empty the till cash into at the end of day or when someone new coming on, etc. A huge mirroon the wall like a normal one. The other side of where it is is nothing butt the store as far as I know and I have never asked but I assume it is somehow a viewing or camera. Next to this room is the interrogation room and security folks room. YES we have an interrogation room for LE and shoplifters but I am talking the money room as far as the mirror I see where I can check my hair and uninform etc. and assume someone can see me or it is some way of doing so or recording. Not that one could do anything wrong anyhow, this magic machine makes balancing all the drawers etc. at the end of the day so easy.

Some of you used to work in banks but I gather some time back, did you have two way mirrors or anything? Again, I dn't think that is exactly what this is as the other side of it would be a store wall where clothing is and customers BUT I am going to guess it angles or does something. Or maybe a small false wall but no way is someone standing there all day on the other side.

A little off topic but I agree. A person could be voluntarily talking or interviewed in a hospital, a library, on the street corner, at their home, or in an interrogation room or general room at a PD. Doesn't matter. It is if you are in custody or are told you are and can't leave, etc.

HOWEVER, a whole lot of BS changes these days without our knowing. And there has been a bit o this sh*t lately on Miranda. Just happened or was claimed in a couple of cases within the last two weeks I think even but I don't know how many here follow the others. Doerman was one and they did find in the defendant's favor. However, another I can't recall but if I recall it seemed like the kind of bull this one seems to be or not fact just a desperate attempt. I believe there was one other. Drawring a blank. I know I commented on each though.

It also seems to be where in certain cases they see what someone else tries and they pull a similar or try to. I don't think it worked in any of the others except Doerman and I think or it seems ther was reason for that. I'd have to take a look and I don't think the public has seen the video so just taking the judge's word for it. These officers saw three young dead small boys and I can believe passion overtook BUT again don't know. His confession I think was thrown out however they have him so dead to rights anyhow he better be planning on how to decorate his prison cell.
 
Saw this while exiting ... Grandmabear has same Q's ... the D asked P for the beginning of the recording - that's where miranda is handled, and the D had to wait for the P to search for it, and then get back to them confirming the first part of the interrogation is ... not on record. Next, D searches for possible miranda paperwork - no paperwork. Maybe I'm missing something but is that not the process? D thinks there is missing discovery, asks for it, the P says okay I'll get back to you, P goes and looks for it, that takes x time, P tells D they looked and they found nothing, D does further research, checks and double checks if there's a paper miranda, there's not, D preps motion. We've seen a series of such complaints from the D about incomplete discovery and P's had to go searching, and/or answer previous motions as to their explanation for the incomplete discovery. IMO, this is just more of that. The sticky thing here ... the think the D can't bring a motion without having verified the fact that the beginning of the interrogation is indeed MISSING ... it likely took time for the P to get that confirmed by LE. The beginning of the interrogation is - in fact - missing.
P has even made excuses regarding not getting discovery to the D in a timely manner. "We were just as surprised as anyone when we did or didn't find additional or missing discovery".

Honestly. Not sure why anyone thinks this is okay.
 
guess what?
If you're not reading the motion, rules say, you can't discuss it. :nope: Who's rules, you ask? RULES OF ENGAGEMENT.
What? You won't read those rules either?
I give up. :runningaway:
No one should have to suffer reading the filings of those two or their bar failing buddy or whoever writes the sh*t lmao. Yeah you'd better run away lol!

I have ready many a doc in a case in my life. And as I said I follow more than one. Again what others do you follow, I have to wonder if we would disagree on opinions in all of them?

I read every page of a very long AA in Morphew. I have read tons of things at the DOJ. I have read in more cases than you can count every single document. I get that I am commenting without reading it and I also used to never comment if I did not read every link and I did and I hated when someone didn't but that's just how it is. I don't deny it. In this case though there is good reason many and you can't blame them want to not read more of these filings. I pity the judge what has been dumped on her and the FM alone would take most people two years of their life.

Actually I did read something not to long ago that I commented on and wondered who drafted it as they actually contained it to two succint pages. Told me immediately different people draft regardless of who signs them...
 
The P gets to answer the D's motion of course ... waiting on that. (Happy thought: It's nice to read the D motion so you can enjoy the P's response!)

Nice to see all. ... I've got to bounce.

Happy reading (cough, cough) and stuff!
Bounce? Stop it. Gives me a clue as to what planet you live on. LOL.
 
I would be insisting on the recording. Question answered real easy. If the day there isn't a recording, you open a whole new set of motions as to why and what are they hiding etc etc etc.

I'm not in on this on whether he was or wasn't but how is this just now being addressed and once you found out your client was brought in under false pretenses, why this was not asked immediately and sought out. I am not seeing any good out of an attorney that does this.
DITTO. Completely agree.
 
Saw this while exiting ... Grandmabear has same Q's ... the D asked P for the beginning of the recording - that's where miranda is handled, and the D had to wait for the P to search for it, and then get back to them confirming the first part of the interrogation is ... not on record. Next, D searches for possible miranda paperwork - no paperwork. Maybe I'm missing something but is that not the process? D thinks there is missing discovery, asks for it, the P says okay I'll get back to you, P goes and looks for it, that takes x time, P tells D they looked and they found nothing, D does further research, checks and double checks if there's a paper miranda, there's not, D preps motion. We've seen a series of such complaints from the D about incomplete discovery and P's had to go searching, and/or answer previous motions as to their explanation for the incomplete discovery. IMO, this is just more of that. The sticky thing here ... the think the D can't bring a motion without having verified the fact that the beginning of the interrogation is indeed MISSING ... it likely took time for the P to get that confirmed by LE. The beginning of the interrogation is - in fact - missing.
What I am missing here is who and what says there should have been a Miranda or that he couldn't leave? Or that he was not there voluntarily? Seems to me something new is going on these days or being attempted.

So now I am informed this was in Lafayette right? Did he/they got home that day? Was he arrested or held? If not, then he was free to leave and no Miranda needed. You do NOT go home if you are in custody.
 
Okay. Another reason I don't read is I know I am not going to see it as you do and I am five pages in and I am NOT seeing it the same way. I am taking a break from the rest. I am going to go finish the kitties' litter pan before they need it and I have new problems.

It isn't that it is sooo bad like some of theirs but I have a million questions already. He was told they had a few questions the wanted to clear up and wife was out there waiting. HOW IS that having him in custody? That is just ONE thing from the start. He'd been interviews before and was Miranidized when he likely did not even have to be so he was advised of Miranda already. That is two. He did go home this day am I wrong?

Man, I am going to stop there. But I have a lot more and not sure I have it in me to do it, come back to it and finish on just these five or read rest. We shall see.
 
Point has been made never mentioned much D has not turned over sh*t for their discovery. Works both ways.

D has also asked for discovery they already had like three times over as imo they have never went through it until recently.

Just like they never knew what RA would read for evidence in the stuff dumped on him without his lawyers there or advising or warning and then he panicked and confessed.

I know of lawyers like this who give you the stuff to read and never looked at one bit of it themselves nor do their job.

I am not going to disagree that I am unhappy with recordings not working and some other things or Doolin and so on nor do I excuse it. Seriously.

Howeer, things work both ways for one and also, they don't have to help them do their job.

I am not completely happy with some or in some cases all on either side but some can't see how some of us can see it one way but then can't see the defense problems at this point or get a clue, well, I guess that sure goes both ways.

I guess if fair both sides should be ciriticized for more than a few things. Are any that see the defense bozos as brilliant willing to admit that and see that they aren't? Lol. I doubt it somehow.

I see where the 70 years of experience comes from lol. It is in their own filing in the first five pages I forget which one, so a quote from them. From the defense lol. Okay. And yeah, probably does add up to that. If I had time I'd really look into their cases, how many went to trial and they had to actually try and what they filed and did before hand, how written and so on, how many big ones, etc., etc. That's never going to happen in my life but it is what I would have done a few years back.

This case may be the most passionate I've ever seen here. Nothing wrong with that imo. It beats ambivalence by a long shot. And I'd hope we all k now all are simply espousing what they see and their beliefs.. I don't have some agenda and would think no one else does either but simply care about what we see or believe.

The defense however I've seen an agenda with, sorry from leaks to you name it. maybe prosecution or LE too, I don't know but they were't even after this man through all the years so it is a bit more of a stretch. Did they purposely lose the info early on on purpose of the very many they now want to convict? And plant the gun in his home, etc.? I mean come on. Some is too much of a stretch.

However, disagreement is likely to continue and imo that's okay. Again better than not caring by far.

I hope this trial goes off on time.

I may or may not finish the next six pages of the filing. Right now, I am on step three of the cat pan as they are going to need one sooner or later. And I prefer it at the moment o reading the rest as I cant even get all the questions straight that came up in my reading the first five pages to comment on.
 
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I don't even know that they have to tell you you are free to leave. THey just can't tell you you are not unless mirandize.

Some do have two way mirrors but think that likely more common in bigger cities and when of course a formal serious interrogation and in custody and not free to leave. Most do have cameras and a common tactic is to leave the subject along to see what they do or say or say to each other if more than one in the room. We have seen plenty of footage through the years of these moments in various cases.

We have what I believe to be a two way mirror or some kind of mirror camera at work. Where the money machine is, where the cash comes out or you empty the till cash into at the end of day or when someone new coming on, etc. A huge mirroon the wall like a normal one. The other side of where it is is nothing butt the store as far as I know and I have never asked but I assume it is somehow a viewing or camera. Next to this room is the interrogation room and security folks room. YES we have an interrogation room for LE and shoplifters but I am talking the money room as far as the mirror I see where I can check my hair and uninform etc. and assume someone can see me or it is some way of doing so or recording. Not that one could do anything wrong anyhow, this magic machine makes balancing all the drawers etc. at the end of the day so easy.

Some of you used to work in banks but I gather some time back, did you have two way mirrors or anything? Again, I dn't think that is exactly what this is as the other side of it would be a store wall where clothing is and customers BUT I am going to guess it angles or does something. Or maybe a small false wall but no way is someone standing there all day on the other side.

A little off topic but I agree. A person could be voluntarily talking or interviewed in a hospital, a library, on the street corner, at their home, or in an interrogation room or general room at a PD. Doesn't matter. It is if you are in custody or are told you are and can't leave, etc.

HOWEVER, a whole lot of BS changes these days without our knowing. And there has been a bit o this sh*t lately on Miranda. Just happened or was claimed in a couple of cases within the last two weeks I think even but I don't know how many here follow the others. Doerman was one and they did find in the defendant's favor. However, another I can't recall but if I recall it seemed like the kind of bull this one seems to be or not fact just a desperate attempt. I believe there was one other. Drawring a blank. I know I commented on each though.

It also seems to be where in certain cases they see what someone else tries and they pull a similar or try to. I don't think it worked in any of the others except Doerman and I think or it seems ther was reason for that. I'd have to take a look and I don't think the public has seen the video so just taking the judge's word for it. These officers saw three young dead small boys and I can believe passion overtook BUT again don't know. His confession I think was thrown out however they have him so dead to rights anyhow he better be planning on how to decorate his prison cell.
I worked in a bank many years ago in the early 70's. No two way mirror. The no. 1 cashier would bring our trays of cash out of the vault from the night before's cashing up and we would open our tills and put the trays of money in our drawers, count and verify it to the previous nights total ready for the customers by 9:30 a.m.
 
Okay I will read it and it had better not be longer than what is already too long 11 pages. I only have the at pan 1/2 finished and my cats will need a potty at some point. and I'd better not regret it. I will almost bet already what it does not address though....
I could not get thru many pages at all. Full of lots of the f word though.
 
Point has been made never mentioned much D has not turned over sh*t for their discovery. Works both ways.

D has also asked for discovery they already had like three times over as imo they have never went through it until recently.

Just like they never knew what RA would read for evidence in the stuff dumped on him without his lawyers there or advising or warning and then he panicked and confessed.

I know of lawyers like this who give you the stuff to read and never looked at one bit of it themselves nor do their job.

I am not going to disagree that I am unhappy with recordings not working and some other things or Doolin and so on nor do I excuse it. Seriously.

Howeer, things work both ways for one and also, they don't have to help them do their job.

I am not completely happy with some or in some cases all on either side but some can't see how some of us can see it one way but then can't see the defense problems at this point or get a clue, well, I guess that sure goes both ways.

I guess if fair both sides should be ciriticized for more than a few things. Are any that see the defense bozos as brilliant willing to admit that and see that they aren't? Lol. I doubt it somehow.

I see where the 70 years of experience comes from lol. It is in their own filing in the first five pages I forget which one, so a quote from them. From the defense lol. Okay. And yeah, probably does add up to that. If I had time I'd really look into their cases, how many went to trial and they had to actually try and what they filed and did before hand, how written and so on, how many big ones, etc., etc. That's never going to happen in my life but it is what I would have done a few years back.

This case may be the most passionate I've ever seen here. Nothing wrong with that imo. It beats ambivalence by a long shot. And I'd hope we all k now all are simply espousing what they see and their beliefs.. I don't have some agenda and would think no one else does either but simply care about what we see or believe.

The defense however I've seen an agenda with, sorry from leaks to you name it. maybe prosecution or LE too, I don't know but they were't even after this man through all the years so it is a bit more of a stretch. Did they purposely lose the info early on on purpose of the very many they now want to convict? And plant the gun in his home, etc.? I mean come on. Some is too much of a stretch.

However, disagreement is likely to continue and imo that's okay. Again better than not caring by far.

I hope this trial goes off on time.

I may or may not finish the next six pages of the filing. Right now, I am on step three of the cat pan as they are going to need one sooner or later. And I prefer it at the moment o reading the rest as I cant even get all the questions straight that came up in my reading the first five pages to comment on.
Fixed a few typos/errors but left some that didn't affect lol.
 
Don't get me started adjusting your 18 months for reality. LOL.

We can all agree this is a critical interview ... it's not getting thrown out ... b/c Holeman will find witnesses (moo).

Thoughts I've had:

- Holeman is a major witness. The D (not just this case - all cases) hit the big witnesses hard when they see opportunities. This D has already started on Holeman - back in Oct. w/ the Franks and they've really never let up on Holeman, far as I can tell. Applying pressure on Holeman. Probably not a surprise to Holeman or anyone else.

- The D has a laundry list of evidence they'd like thrown out/suppressed ... (confessions, Holeman interview) ... they're rolling out that list ... because it is time to roll out their objections to evidence and have hearings on these things. These motions are for Gull's consideration/decision making. She's the audience and the decider. Gull has the power to make all of this evidentiary stuff not available to the public, but that's not how she's rolling. Both sides need to get the rules of evidence for this case settled. On the docket recently, there are some things withheld from public; they seem to be psych stuff, they're holding back witness lists and exhibits ... but there may be other sensitive things being withheld from public docket.

- The P should be doing same soon ... not asking for suppression, but motioning to block the SODDI or object to other stuff the D brings into evidence.

What a relief it will be to get down to the real facts rather than all the nonsense that's been conjured up out of nothing on youtube channels.

JMHO

If they have DNA evidence, I highly doubt they'd be holding that back. Same with fingerprints.
 
I worked in a bank many years ago in the early 70's. No two way mirror. The no. 1 cashier would bring our trays of cash out of the vault from the night before's cashing up and we would open our tills and put the trays of money in our drawers, count and verify it to the previous nights total ready for the customers by 9:30 a.m.
Yeah I never worked in a bank but did work a few jobs we balanced at the end of day etc. This machine is pretty darned slick. No one counts out money or counts after. It shoots out the money right into your drawer. If you go short on $5s or pennies or anything some time during the day, the money is gotten from the matching and the till number or service desk return center, etc. # and itt tracks it. When you get a lot of money in one drawer and a lot of hundreds, you go get it out so cashier doesn't have a ton in drawer and deposit it basically into all the same machine and I counts it and keeps the tally of all all day, etc. End of shift drawer contents get dumped in, slip comes out whether perfectly on from all days withdrawals, deposits for that drawer, etc. and prints in a split second. MAN is it impressive. NOt really sure what the mirror is about I should ask one day because you coudln't do anything anyhow. I mean I guess someone could pocket or pull something but then they would be off entirely. I guess if a hold up or store takeover that is the machine with all the cash in it...Truly not sure. All I k now is I now there is no other reason for a huge almost full wall mirror that I can think of over the cash machine.

I though am impressed. It is SOOOOO easy. And such brilliance. If you have a torn bill or something like a $2 coin or bill, it can reject. You then have to enter that you are dropping a bag with that amount because the thing won't go through and a drawer opens, you scan the tag on the bag, it figures it in your total, etc. and you drop that problem bill. Seriously there is no way to fudge figures or anything. It knows what it gave you in the morning on all drawers, what went out or came in during the day, and what was dumped in at end for each register, etc. I wouldn't doubt banks probably have similar now.

But to this case and my question I was wondering about the mirror as there is one in this room and nowhere else I know of in the entire store. Of course I have never been in our interrogation room lol.
 
That all depends on who they confessed to, to me. This dude evidently confessed to multiple people while he was not being interrogated. Huge difference.

Yeah, like the guy he confessed to, who said he told him that he shot both of them.

simon cowell facepalm GIF
 
I could not get thru many pages at all. Full of lots of the f word though.
LOL. I found at least one incomplete sentence. I try not to be that way since with this keyboard and the changing of my words I can't clam no typos ever these days including on self. It is so far better than the last thing I read but still if it was supposed to have some effect on me or sway me, it is having the opposite effect. Through five pages and had 10 comments or questions I can't even recall all of. MOSTLY I fail to see where he was being HELD or DETAINED. I'm not ready to go back to it yet either. I stuff in much Daybell the last two days and that's withouti bring everyone with the bs and other sh*t as usual my days off got wasted over and still are not handled. Not sure how much more of life like this I can take. Taxes werent' done on time now they are but of course I can't get in there as they are closed. So on. Then tomorrow and onward I work and then have to go out of town on days off next week. Argggh. But who am I to talk. I know you ahev some very full days as well and many do. And hard things, all do.

I laughed in Daybell but was also irritated more than once lol.
 

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