LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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When Ron Logan is asked to repeat: "Down the hill." Notice how the pitch of his voice changes on the word "hill".



I also think that the girls bodies weren't there that night when people were searching. I believe they were put there late at night. Logan's story about buying fish when he says he was, has been proven to be a lie.

Have you a link about the lie? He lied that he was driven there by someone but he drove himself I believe.
 
Once you see how the bodies were posed, it's clear that everything that occurred didn't take place in an hour and fifteen minutes by one guy. I don't know what happened. I'm just pointing out the things that make me go Hmmmm...
I have seen the stick figures. I don't think it would take long to do that post mortem. I think he was trying to cover them. From what I have read, (sorry no link) I understand Libby's clothes were put on Abby. So he got the girls to undress then murdered them. Put clothes on Abby post mortem but used the wrong clothes by mistake. Then Abby's clothes didn't fit Libby so she was left naked or partially naked. He took something (maybe the tie dyed top) as a souvenir. Chucked some clothes (underwear?) in the creek and washed some blood off himself maybe with the wet clothes.

Then he headed off either up into the cemetery or along the trail through the woods and walked back to his car. That's how I think it went down.
 
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I know the Odinist theory isn't accepted as truth. All I'm saying is that it's not an absurd theory. Three detectives who were on the case at the beginning still believe it.

The person who told them about the connection and who was involved took a lie detector test and passed.

It shouldn't be brushed off so easily. How do you explain those things?

The person you're talking about in the video doesn't shut the theory down, just casts a little doubt about it.

The people talked about need to be investigated. It appears they have completely brushed this off and ignored it despite the detectives and the information given by someone who passed a lie detector test.

One guy and a friend stopped talking to each other right after the murders. All one would say is he thought the other went too far in dealing with something.

The MS people didn't say that there was nothing there.

If this is true, then RA being threatened to confess makes sense.


I believe RA was involved, but so were others. Do you want one guy involved, or all of them?

The guards who wore the patches were the ones to tase him. No other guards had a problem with him.

You guys are acting like it's a nothing burger. It's not.
I think they tased him because he murdered two white girls and they used his non compliance as an excuse. I don't doubt he has been abused in jail.

Regarding the height, I think the wanted posters stated 5' 8" to 5' 10". So RA being 5' 4" would be stocking feet. Boots and headwear could easily add on several inches. RL is 6 foot I believe so that rules him out by his height alone.
 
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Same. I flipflop so hard on this I'm gonna give myself whiplash.


A bit more info on that "new sketch". It's apparently "not the same guy". But really, yes, it's just an updated version of who they think the suspect is.


On Wednesday, police emphasized that a new sketch of a suspect’s face is not supposed to be a different take on a composite sketch of a heavier, older-looking man. They are, according to Indiana State Police Sgt. Kim Riley, not the same person.

Riley also said Wednesday that the original sketch – released in the summer of 2017, showing a man with a goatee and a driving cap – is “not presently a person of interest in this investigation.”

According to an ISP release, the new sketch of the clean-shaven man “is representative of the face of the person captured in the video on Liberty German’s cell phone as he was walking on the high bridge.”

In ISP’s attempt to clarify on Wednesday, Riley wrote that investigators’ initial belief that “a person in the age range of his 40s to 50s was a person of interest in this murder investigation.”

“Now, as the investigation has matured and past information has been reassessed,” ISP’s release said, “it is the belief of investigators with the Multi-Agency Task Force that the person depicted in the sketch released on April 22 more accurately represents the person wanted for the murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German.”

The new sketch features what police called a man with “a youthful appearance, but could fall in the age range from his 20s to late-30s.”

THE SUSPECT: Police continue to look for a white male between 5-foot-6 and 5-foot-10, weighing 180 to 200 pounds, with reddish brown hair. On Monday, Indiana State Police released a new composite photo of a new suspect, putting his age in his mid-20s to late-30s. Images and video on Libby German’s cellphone show a man walking across Monon High Bridge that day, wearing blue jeans, a blue jacket and a hat. Police also release a recording, taken from Libby’s phone, of a man saying, “Guys, down the hill.”

Police also said Monday that they were looking for information about a car parking in an abandoned CPS building parking lot, at 6931 W. 300 North in Delphi, between noon and 5 p.m. on Feb. 13, 2017. Police did not give details about make, model, color or other features of the car. The building has since been demolished.
Bringing this forward from page 1. Looking for someone 5'6" to 5'10". Could deffo be RA as he would clearly be 5'6" or taller in boots and headgear.

New sketch guy is clearly Anthony Shots right? So now it is clear when they said both sketches are the same guy.

Also, reddish brown hair. Has RA got reddish brown hair? RL deffo hasn't.
 
The friend who sent this to me knew I didn't want to see the death pictures. So they sent me this video which has the stick figure drawings and some explanation. In the Westfall video it's brought up that one of the pieces of wood had been cleanly cut. I think it's the largest one in the stick figure drawings.

I haven't watched the entire video. The stick figure drawing analysis begins at 20:28


Well racist again per your other remark really doesn't explain two white girls. And whether the sticks are meant to portray something and whether they are O symbols or not is debatable but even if someone was attempting to do that, it doesn't make it the men named by he defense and not RA. You yourself are making him part of it so you realize they have not been able to remove him from this. Therefore it still could well be RA on his own.

Hey perhaps the Os are pizzed he tried to make it look like Os did it and implicated them!! Tried to pin it on them! That explains the guards too and makes as much or more sense than the defense explanation that they try unsuccessfully to remove Allen from and include a bunch of men they name and accuse, some at least of whom have alibis. What is Allen's alibi? Huh? Why doesn't the defense just clear him with an alibi?

It is said by experts also this was someone trying to mimic runes... Yep Allen was trying to pin them/implicate them, not very well either. That is another very possible scenario.

Allen WAS there as was his casing. He puts himself there. Ron Logan lived there. RL lied. Kline had a ;meeting planned with Libby. ALL three of these men can be put there, had a plan there or lived there, etc. The O guys? Not the same at all. Yes I know the comment or two by a sister, a gf, etc. Not the same, not direct, etc. Can't be placed there.
 
The Nazis did the same sh...t.
Just another white supremacy cult thang.
Yeah and a lot of people here in the good ol US and elsewhere have used the swastika, confederate flag and many other things or acted like some big tough teen or older person and try to act like part of something back when to now online etc. who have never killed a soul. This kind of sh*t has always went on and many groups or symbols or patches now doesn't mean a darned thing like that they are actually killing, sacrificing or practicing such. And again these were white teens. There is not a bit of physical evidence placing anyone but RA there.

White teens. White pharm tech. Doesn't work. Doesn't fit. What does fit is RA using and playing this stuff from the start until now. What fits is icky older local white man killing two local young white teens for the "usual" sick reasons and his own warped "fantasy".
 
Not sure who you were asking but I will answer anyway. BG had a gun. The outline of it can be seen in his pocket. One of the girls says 'gun' on the video. "Down the hill" can be heard on the video. KK arranged to meet the girls on the bridge. RA showed up and admits he was on the bridge wearing similar clothes. There is therefore a KK/RA connection. No proof of a RA/RL connection. BH was at work. RL was in Lafayette buying fish.
KK has pled guilty and been convicted while RA has confessed. RA's ejected bullet was found at the scene.

I think any perceived Runes or other stuff is either staged or accidental.

RL's fish timeline was a lie. That's been proven.

I have seen the stick figures. I don't think it would take long to do that post mortem. I think he was trying to cover them. From what I have read, (sorry no link) I understand Libby's clothes were put on Abby. So he got the girls to undress then murdered them. Put clothes on Abby post mortem but used the wrong clothes by mistake. Then Abby's clothes didn't fit Libby so she was left naked or partially naked. He took something (maybe the tie dyed top) as a souvenir. Chucked some clothes (underwear?) in the creek and washed some blood off himself maybe with the wet clothes.

Then he headed off either up into the cemetery or along the trail through the woods and walked back to his car. That's how I think it went down.

If he was trying to cover them he did a very poor job. From footage from the bottom of the hill taken at a different time there are a lot of dead leaves on the ground. Also, why set it up in a particular way, if it didn't mean any thing?
 
I was hoping someone here could answer that same question GrandmaBear. I worry it's for the press feed ... into another room (b/c they won't all fit in the courtroom). The press can - that way - watch the trial in the overflow area?

But maybe it is for broadcasting later ... just not live broadcast?

I HAVE NO IDEA.
I'm just an old dead queen and in my day we had no "television".
"Broadcast" references net-fishing in the chilly bay (not netflixing and chill) and "streaming" means ... git yer arse in the river and get that stank off ya.
My best guess is it will be a live "TV" stream but can't that "TV:" stream can't then be digitally shared or fed elsewhere? Something on that order? Generally that would mean my GUESS is only those with permission and known can be sharing it and generally such are places like Court TV, Law and Crime, etc....? Heck I'm old too and don't know. The entire thing is clear enough other than that doublespeak.
 
RL's fish timeline was a lie. That's been proven.



If he was trying to cover them he did a very poor job. From footage from the bottom of the hill taken at a different time there are a lot of dead leaves on the ground. Also, why set it up in a particular way, if it didn't mean any thing?
very possibly got spooked and decided to get out of there before caught makes perfect sense in not finishing covering them.
 
I have seen the stick figures. I don't think it would take long to do that post mortem. I think he was trying to cover them. From what I have read, (sorry no link) I understand Libby's clothes were put on Abby. So he got the girls to undress then murdered them. Put clothes on Abby post mortem but used the wrong clothes by mistake. Then Abby's clothes didn't fit Libby so she was left naked or partially naked. He took something (maybe the tie dyed top) as a souvenir. Chucked some clothes (underwear?) in the creek and washed some blood off himself maybe with the wet clothes.

Then he headed off either up into the cemetery or along the trail through the woods and walked back to his car. That's how I think it went down.
I think he'd have to be i total panic mode or really unobservant to mix up the girls clothing as let's just be honest in that Abby and Libby were completely different sizes and shapes and from bra to pants, pretty sure he'd know the difference as to whose was whose. He wasn't a teenager and lived in a household with two females himself. Mixing up shirts or jackets or socks i could see but not the rest of it. And why is he redressing her or them to begin with? I don't know, I think there was something more sick or twisted about putting A in L's clothing.

Other than that, and even with that you could be right, I can see your scenario.

There just isn't any crime benefit to his redressing them or taking the time to, LE is going to now they were redressed anyhow, it doesn't help him and in fact makes him leaving more evidence more likely...? These are some of the reasons I think it was for some sick twisted purpose of his own but he may well have run out of time or felt he was...Or it ws just all more difficult than he'd envisioned... (Redressing, staging, covering, etc.)
 
I think they tased him because he murdered two white girls and they used his non compliance as an excuse. I don't doubt he has been abused in jail.

Regarding the height, I think the wanted posters stated 5' 8" to 5' 10". So RA being 5' 4" would be stocking feet. Boots and headwear could easily add on several inches. RL is 6 foot I believe so that rules him out by his height alone.
I agree that the man on the bridge is no 6 foot dude and is not RL. I can't see it at all or see RL in that guy. I can see RA in face,height, all of it.
 
I think they tased him because he murdered two white girls and they used his non compliance as an excuse. I don't doubt he has been abused in jail.

Regarding the height, I think the wanted posters stated 5' 8" to 5' 10". So RA being 5' 4" would be stocking feet. Boots and headwear could easily add on several inches. RL is 6 foot I believe so that rules him out by his height alone.
Twice in like a year or something right? I think they tased him per rules if noncompliant, resisting or combative. If it were more frequent I'd wonder. Or has it been less time than that?
 
Hey perhaps the Os are pizzed he tried to make it look like Os did it and implicated them!! Tried to pin it on them! That explains the guards too and makes as much or more sense than the defense explanation that they try unsuccessfully to remove Allen from and include a bunch of men they name and accuse, some at least of whom have alibis.
interesting ^
It is said by experts also this was someone trying to mimic runes... Yep Allen was trying to pin them/implicate them, not very well either. That is another very possible scenario.
^ staging a crime scene (misdirection) (or messaging)
Allen WAS there as was his casing. He puts himself there. Ron Logan lived there. RL lied. Kline had a ;meeting planned with Libby. ALL three of these men can be put there, had a plan there or lived there, etc. The O guys? Not the same at all. Yes I know the comment or two by a sister, a gf, etc. Not the same, not direct, etc. Can't be placed there.
^ disagree here b/c the O guys include Libby's bf's dad - a patch-carrying Odonist. Probably how the O's landed on POI list.

When the evidence is disclosed as to the crime scene(s) and cause of death things will be more clear. We can hope, anyway.
If injuries did not match crime scene blood evidence ... did they search/find a 2nd crime scene?

Wondering why they didn't have a canine team out that night? Dogs would have found the crime scene very quickly.
Inexperienced/unprepared LE messed up - should have called for a canine team and let them work all night.
If it was kids 8 and 9; they'd have called the dogs. The cops assumed the teens were being teens ... and would show up in the AM and get grounded for months.

As for RA:

I think the teen babysitter girl witness knows who she saw; BG's odd response to her hello - made her uncomfortable. She knows his relative height. We'll see, but there's a chance she'll be the star of this case. She should prove compelling. It was her JOB that day to protect the kids she was with.

Via babysitter and Libby's phone, we can piece together that BG went to the bridge not once, but twice. BG was in a surly mood (moods suggest anxiety).
That's the behavior of someone waiting for/meeting someone.

RA tells cops he went to the bridge and platform and sat on the bench to watch his phone. RA felt he should report the platform. Felt he should report the bench. Felt he should report he was on his phone. Why mention the phone? And the bench. And the platform? ... because he knew people saw him do those things. I think it's odd to specifically recall (years and years later?) that "he was watching a stock ticker".

What was RA reading on the phone? (Does RA have stock to watch?)

LE has (likely) settled on the snapchat killer theory. How will they prove it?

The RA timeline matches the kidnapping from the bridge. But does the timeline match the mechanics from there on, all that was necessary to arrive at the resulting crime scene? Mr. Def Attny, walk us through the kidnapping, location movement, undressing, dressing, murder, staging, leaving scene, returning to car, clean up, etc..
 
I have seen the stick figures. I don't think it would take long to do that post mortem. I think he was trying to cover them. From what I have read, (sorry no link) I understand Libby's clothes were put on Abby. So he got the girls to undress then murdered them. Put clothes on Abby post mortem but used the wrong clothes by mistake. Then Abby's clothes didn't fit Libby so she was left naked or partially naked. He took something (maybe the tie dyed top) as a souvenir. Chucked some clothes (underwear?) in the creek and washed some blood off himself maybe with the wet clothes.

Then he headed off either up into the cemetery or along the trail through the woods and walked back to his car. That's how I think it went down.

If this is a sicko-CSAM killer; killer may have played humiliating dressing/undressing games with them at gunpoint. Abby got dressed in Libby's clothes b/c a gun told her to. Maybe Abby was put to work moving Libby's body and moving sticks - it was cold out - he let her put on Libby's clothes. The girls weren't necessarily killed in the same place, same moment. JMHO and shame on me for even thinking this through. I'm giving myself time out. :shakinghead:
 
interesting ^

^ staging a crime scene (misdirection) (or messaging)

^ disagree here b/c the O guys include Libby's bf's dad - a patch-carrying Odonist. Probably how the O's landed on POI list.

When the evidence is disclosed as to the crime scene(s) and cause of death things will be more clear. We can hope, anyway.
If injuries did not match crime scene blood evidence ... did they search/find a 2nd crime scene?

Wondering why they didn't have a canine team out that night? Dogs would have found the crime scene very quickly.
Inexperienced/unprepared LE messed up - should have called for a canine team and let them work all night.
If it was kids 8 and 9; they'd have called the dogs. The cops assumed the teens were being teens ... and would show up in the AM and get grounded for months.

As for RA:

I think the teen babysitter girl witness knows who she saw; BG's odd response to her hello - made her uncomfortable. She knows his relative height. We'll see, but there's a chance she'll be the star of this case. She should prove compelling. It was her JOB that day to protect the kids she was with.

Via babysitter and Libby's phone, we can piece together that BG went to the bridge not once, but twice. BG was in a surly mood (moods suggest anxiety).
That's the behavior of someone waiting for/meeting someone.

RA tells cops he went to the bridge and platform and sat on the bench to watch his phone. RA felt he should report the platform. Felt he should report the bench. Felt he should report he was on his phone. Why mention the phone? And the bench. And the platform? ... because he knew people saw him do those things. I think it's odd to specifically recall (years and years later?) that "he was watching a stock ticker".

What was RA reading on the phone? (Does RA have stock to watch?)

LE has (likely) settled on the snapchat killer theory. How will they prove it?

The RA timeline matches the kidnapping from the bridge. But does the timeline match the mechanics from there on, all that was necessary to arrive at the resulting crime scene? Mr. Def Attny, walk us through the kidnapping, location movement, undressing, dressing, murder, staging, leaving scene, returning to car, clean up, etc..

The dog thing I think can be explained by Delphi being so remote. Not every PD has cadaver dogs. The closest PD with cadaver dogs may have been hours away. At that time nobody thought they were dead, just missing.
 

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