JOSHUA "JJ" VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN, TAMMY DAYBELL, & CHARLES VALLOW: State of Idaho/Arizona vs. Lori & Chad Daybell GUILTY

Tresir · Apr 11, 2024

GrandmaBear said:
Yeah very stupidly without thinking and scared imo as they already I think knew otherwise and for sure did very shortly afterwards. Some of the very few minutes I caught of Hermosillo's testimony today was having some investigation and knowledge from GIlbert was it? ANd due to the jeep before the welfare check and such too. Prior objected over and over every time Wood tried to ask Hermosillo what was said after Alex said JJ was with his grandma in Louisiana. He finally lost and had to give it up and it was stated. And Chad and Alex's reaction, etc. It is day one and already what Prior needs to show already has him knowing what is about to be said is not going to help his client. They already knew somethings from Gilbert, from Kay and did some investigating due to the jeep before ever going there on the welfare check or being asked to as well. It was a stupid move on Chad's part when married to her to say such a thing. I think this Apple Dumpling Gang was so sure UNTIL the kids were being looked for that they were on no ones radar and no one had any clues as to what had been done, what was planned, where she and the kids were, etc. Once the kids became a big issue, the whole ball of wax started being looked at, looked back at and all started unraveling and fast. I think they were blindsided quite honestly so off to Hawaii they went ignoring answering about the children. New sfrom the start just kept finding more and more and more.

I take some perverse pleasure in the thought of with all the various things that probably HIT them that kept coming. NATE appearing in Hawaii LOL. A reporter and his camera man paying the money to go hunt them down as the NATION was wondering why two people wouldn't talk of where her kids were or show they were safe. Tammy's exhumation oh my that had to be a shocker and worry to them. Of course they were still trying to do do damage control as Alex then "died of natural causes". I take perverse pleasure in for all of their plans these two never got any kid free, Charles free, Tammy free, rolling in dough happy ever after, they never even got a TASTE of it before they were becoming well known and hunted basically and the dirt and cases and crimes just kept coming... Former shooting at Brandon, at Tammy, look back at Charles, just sooo much.

Were they so stupid as to believe they could just hide their heads and go live in Hawaii and all would give up? I don't think so. I think they were trying to find time to regroup and probably going to head to another country. I really do. I don't think it was their original plan as they never expected to be caught but I think that's what out of desperation they were going to do.

If it hadn't been for Nate they could have got away with it. He kept on the case doggedly. Also, if they hadn't buried the kids in the back yard, they could have got away with it too maybe. I wonder whose idea that was? "Let's bury them in the pet cemetery, nobody will look there."

I had to Google "Apple Dumpling Gang". I'd never heard of them.

The Apple Dumpling Gang Rides Again - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Mel70 · Apr 11, 2024

Kimster said:
Prior says Hampikian will talk about “several” hairs found on the plastic of JJ Vallow. “He’s also going to say there was no DNA evidence, no hair sample of Chad Daybell on Tylee Ryan or on JJ Vallow.”

There were TWO Tyvek suits. Was one of them for Chad? I also remember Juror #8 saying that Lori's hair found in the tape on JJ's body didn't mean much to him because she was his mom and of course her hair would be on him. So that should work in reverse, Chad's DNA doesn't have to be on the bodies, either.

Kimster said:
@NateNewsNow

The next photo shows the rope and duct tape in a Walmart bag. The last photo shows Alex Cox's passport found in the belongings.

They're going over items they saw in one of the initial search warrants. Did Alex come back and get his passport? Because he had recently made a trip to Mexico just prior to his death in DECEMBER..........

(edited to correct month of December)

Why is everything Wal-Mart?!

Mel70 · Apr 11, 2024

Tresir said:
Everyone in that photo is dead now.

They have a way with people dying around them.

Mel70 · Apr 11, 2024

Tresir said:
If it hadn't been for Nate they could have got away with it. He kept on the case doggedly. Also, if they hadn't buried the kids in the back yard, they could have got away with it too maybe. I wonder whose idea that was?

I'm guessing superbrains, Lori. Then her puppet Chad agreed.

GrandmaBear · Apr 11, 2024

Tresir said:
Yes Tammy was dead too at this point in November right? I was getting a bit confused when this search took place but Kimster clarified it was 26th November.

What do you think that he hasn't been charged with anything to do with Charles?

Yes. I'm not great on the timeline with all either but this part I'm a bit better. The kids went missing in September, Tammy was killed if I have it correct in October, Kay found where Lori was living I think based on getting into Charles credit card or Amazon account and that's how she sent a welfare check to Rexburg via Gilbert. They subsequently found out about the marriage and Tammy's death or maybe did on the Jeep thing first, that one is a bit of two different things but it all kind of started the whole ball rolling, more found out, etc.

I'm not sure if we know all or if we do that I recall all but I know and recall this much. At this point, Charles had died and his grown sons had not been decently notified by Lori and CHarles also was Kay's brother. Probably that alone alerted and then they hadn't been having contact with JJ and Charles died under suspicious circumstances and they didn't live in ID and Kay wanted if I recall JJ there for a memorial for Charles in LA? Anyhow all this would have caused alarm bells and Kay probably started looking on her own. And they weren't hearing from Lori and talking to JJ whether before during or after. We have to recall Charles had put his life insurance into Kay's name at some point prior so Kay was aware of all the custody and divorce battles and advised Charles to do so or suggested.

AFter Charles died and not being able to figure what happened and what the truth was and having no contact with JJ, etc. Kay probably was trying to find where they'd went and what the heck and she either knew or came up with a though on the Amazon password or whatever and saw the wedding rings and/or clothes purchased on her dead brothers card but being sent to a Rexburg address. This is the address Kay then knew of and hoped she had found Lori and JJ and Tylee and she gave the cops.

I hope I'm making sense. I should have been in bed hours ago. By now It was after Tammy's death, the kids' death and that all came out after they looked into Lori in Rexburg, her relationship, marriage with Chad and so on. I don't think Kay knew any of that until giving them what she'd found about wedding rings and wedding clothes.

Mel70 · Apr 11, 2024

GrandmaBear said:
First he said all or he said from the children. Then it was four OF five, then it was three or four...

So if they are going to talk about her health. Then why won't her cause of death be revealed?. That seems ridiculous.

GrandmaBear · Apr 11, 2024

Tresir said:
If it hadn't been for Nate they could have got away with it. He kept on the case doggedly. Also, if they hadn't buried the kids in the back yard, they could have got away with it too maybe. I wonder whose idea that was?

I don't know but I have to wonder if there was some weird reason for that. Like I guess the GOD he thought he was would know always if any was looking there and he'd be able to keep tabs... It's so strange I can't figure the reason but I guess the place you have the most power over being searched without cause or a warrant would be your own...? I tend to think the fact they were buried there and not dumped anywhere else says more about Chad than Alex or Lori and that he had maybe more part in their murders than they did (not that they weren't aware but his whatever weird reason to have them there). Lori is bad enough and none of us nonkillers can ever understand either one but I think Chad has a level of sick evil his silence and such hides and we have no clue of. Seriously.

Nate was dogged. He was something. And yet watching him in all the years since he is so politically correct, polite and careful not to cross lines or interfere in a case and even down there he only kept just putting the mic in their face and asking questions everyone normal wanted the answers to lol. I DO THINK they were going to leave the country and her purseful of cash I think shows that but there he was and so on after the cops. LE probably couldn't move and do as he did but he showed where they were and more and found them.

You know Chad wanted this place in Rexburg and from what many say Tammy didn't want to move. And he then was trying to do some compound thing and so on he tried to show or did I think part of who was there too was lies, Melanie and David adjoining land. It was all for the 144K special people. I don't know why the kids were there but I do think it was due to him and I think he is sicker by far than we know. They both are evil as all get out but I don't even think Lori knows the depths of Chad's evil. She was okay with every bit of it and part of it but I think or suspect he is beyond. She is evil and totally revengeful and selfish don't get me wrong, but there is something about him beyond. Lori shows her surface shi*t of caring how she looks, her flirt, but also shows her evil when some got glimpses don't get me wrong but he is this calm toad cool cucumber that hides far more manipulation, evil and more. She seriously got upset Chad's books were called stupid by her attorney. Do you think if someone called Lori's whatever stupid he would get upset or get in some snit. HE is the worst of the two NOT that I think there is a worst, they are both crud and EVIL. But if there is worse, it is he.

I'm tired and don't have the words but it is my instinct that CHAD wanted the kids there and that he may have even gotten a kick out of it Plus it could be more mundate in the sense of where were they going to take them someone would not come across them doing such and he had a bit of land nearby an could fool and control as we till see today Tammy and his kids very easily.

Sorry if not making sense. It is 3 a.m. here and I've been up soon for almost 24 hours and a helluva long day and week.

GrandmaBear · Apr 11, 2024

Mel70 said:
I'm guessing superbrains, Lori. Then her puppet Chad agreed.

I love you but may differ on this one. I see them both as very equally evil, a pair and manipulative at minimum but I think he may be the far deeper evil one if there is a scale with these two that one could be worse than the other. She's socio/psycho she is a shallow Vallow (sorry charles, hate that she has his last name used yet) and anyone in her way even her kids she can tell herself is okay to want gone maybe but she never had before, but Chad helped that out with the light dark scale and his zombie exorcisim thing. I think he is way deeper dark than her IF one is worse than the other. He was telling her everything she wanted to hear, believe and giving her excuses for doing away with people being the right thing to do...

GrandmaBear · Apr 11, 2024

Mel70 said:
So if they are going to talk about her health. Then why won't her cause of death be revealed?. That seems ridiculous.

Her cause of death is strangulation or suffocation not sure if it was either or one but one of those per prosecution and autopsy and exhumation.

They are going to try to say otherwise, natural causes, health, which the idiots sorry Rexburg in Rexburg believed and signed off on that Chad was grieving and his wife of 29 year or whatever years died in her sleep despite things that should have had them investigate and not just rule it natural.

Tresir · Apr 11, 2024

GrandmaBear said:
Her cause of death is strangulation or suffocation not sure if it was either or one but one of those per prosecution and autopsy and exhumation.

They are going to try to say otherwise, natural causes, health, which the idiots sorry Rexburg in Rexburg believed and signed off on that Chad was grieving and his wife of 29 year or whatever years died in her sleep despite things that should have had them investigate and not just rule it natural.

(According to Chad) Died in her sleep but also had a coughing fit and fell out of bed or did I mis- remember that? It will be interesting to hear the Daybell kids testimony.

ETA just posting this article with details of her actual autopsy and the pre-death bruising on her arms consistent with restraint prior to her death, as a reminder.

Lori Vallow trial hears Tammy Daybell was likely restrained during her murder

Death of the wife of doomsday author Chad Daybell originally ruled as natural

www.independent.co.uk

"The autopsy revealed Tammy had bruises on her right and left arms and on her chest that could only have happened in the hours around her death. These were found to be consistent with someone being restrained and consistent with asphyxia."

Mel70 · Apr 11, 2024

GrandmaBear said:
Her cause of death is strangulation or suffocation not sure if it was either or one but one of those per prosecution and autopsy and exhumation.

They are going to try to say otherwise, natural causes, health, which the idiots sorry Rexburg in Rexburg believed and signed off on that Chad was grieving and his wife of 29 year or whatever years died in her sleep despite things that should have had them investigate and not just rule it natural.

Thank you for the information my friend.

Mel70 · Apr 11, 2024

Tresir said:
(According to Chad) Died in her sleep but also had a coughing fit and fell out of bed or did I mis- remember that? It will be interesting to hear the Daybell kids testimony.

ETA just posting this article with details of her actual autopsy and the pre-death bruising on her arms consistent with restraint prior to her death, as a reminder.

Lori Vallow trial hears Tammy Daybell was likely restrained during her murder

Death of the wife of doomsday author Chad Daybell originally ruled as natural

www.independent.co.uk

"The autopsy revealed Tammy had bruises on her right and left arms and on her chest that could only have happened in the hours around her death. These were found to be consistent with someone being restrained and consistent with asphyxia."

That makes sense. Straddling someone, Pinning their arms. Then suffocating someone with a pillow. Usually I've seen that in murder cases with autopsy reports like that.

Kimster · Apr 11, 2024

Tresir said:
Yep sure does. Everything pretty much happened in Sept, Oct, Nov and Dec right?

Except for killing Charles. I think that was in July?

Kimster · Apr 11, 2024

RoundPeg said:
He was found in those PJs if I remember correctly.

That’s what I recall, too.

Kimster · Apr 11, 2024

GrandmaBear said:
First he said all or he said from the children. Then it was four OF five, then it was three or four...

She had ailments where she was rubbing lotion on her legs? That doesn’t sound life-threatening to me. Sorry. They better have a better story than that one.

Kimster · Apr 11, 2024

Tresir said:
Yes Tammy was dead too at this point in November right? I was getting a bit confused when this search took place but Kimster clarified it was 26th November.

What do you think that he hasn't been charged with anything to do with Charles?

The police in Arizona said they don’t have enough evidence. Nate has said that a couple of times. I think he asked them himself.

GrandmaBear · Apr 11, 2024

Tresir said:
(According to Chad) Died in her sleep but also had a coughing fit and fell out of bed or did I mis- remember that? It will be interesting to hear the Daybell kids testimony.

ETA just posting this article with details of her actual autopsy and the pre-death bruising on her arms consistent with restraint prior to her death, as a reminder.

Lori Vallow trial hears Tammy Daybell was likely restrained during her murder

Death of the wife of doomsday author Chad Daybell originally ruled as natural

www.independent.co.uk

"The autopsy revealed Tammy had bruises on her right and left arms and on her chest that could only have happened in the hours around her death. These were found to be consistent with someone being restrained and consistent with asphyxia."

Yeah and what coughing has to do with Tammy putting oil on a leg etc. I have no idea. These kids I can't imagine doing well on the stand especially when crossed. Of course we do have was it Emma who is good at sticking her tongue out at people when upset lol. I shouldn't laugh at them but COME ON. They all did that one interview which one could tell was entirely with rules as to what could be asked imo, etc. This is different, this will be a MURDER trial with cross examination they can't avoid or say no thanks, I don't want to play that game or answer those questions.

I don't think it is true Tammy had many "maladies". That word already I hate how Prior used it. There are many that can contradict on her health. And they HAVE to say she wouldn't seek out a doctor because THIS explains why it wasn't known, there's no medical records of issues and how she died young from some untreated, probably unknown serious health problem.

Imo these kids are going to lie for their dad. Or at least Prior purports they are. We will see. These kids or some were there LIVING on a property with the dead bodies buried and mutilated of their dad's gf and later new wife's children as was their mom. They need to get a FREAKING clue. I'm sure all at least were home for Easter let's say even if not residing.

I'm sorry but there's also NO WAY this marriage seemed good to them imo. Chad was not home probably much of the time and Tammy hard at work and handling all and this had to be obvious. Of course they all were likely under Chad's control and influence and always had been and his teachings on top of it. Who knows. Doesn't sound like Tammy ever went against him especially if her grandma had him tell her to do something or stop doing it.

Tammy's aunt was upset at this news of the kids and what they were going to say, you could see it but she pulled herself in and gave them the benefit of the doubt and held it I'm sure due to the case and the trial and not saying much more, and because these are TAmmy's kids and they love them (but clearly don't agree with them). If you get the chance watch that one or two minute part of Nate's. It's nothing huge but just points out again Tammy's health was fine or she sure was hiding a lot yet sharing it with all her young children? I don't think so.

Kimster · Apr 11, 2024

Mel70 said:
I'm guessing superbrains, Lori. Then her puppet Chad agreed.

I wonder if they can bring up Lori’s s state of mind? Because she is half insane. I mean they’re trying to pull that one again in Arizona right as I type this. And she already spent 10 months in the mental hospital. I wonder if the prosecution can use that against Chad!? I mean, it’s easy to lead somebody who isn’t all there. I don’t know. Seems like it’s kind of a Catch-22 for the prosecution though.

Kimster · Apr 11, 2024

Mel70 said:
So if they are going to talk about her health. Then why won't her cause of death be revealed?. That seems ridiculous.

Her cause of death was revealed in Lori‘s case. I don’t know why her children won’t accept it.

Kimster · Apr 11, 2024

I see you guys have already addressed half the things I looked at this morning. This is one case where we all pretty much see things the same way for the most part.

JOSHUA "JJ" VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN, TAMMY DAYBELL, & CHARLES VALLOW: State of Idaho/Arizona vs. Lori & Chad Daybell *GUILTY*

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JOSHUA "JJ" VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN, TAMMY DAYBELL, & CHARLES VALLOW: State of Idaho/Arizona vs. Lori & Chad Daybell GUILTY