JOSHUA "JJ" VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN, TAMMY DAYBELL, & CHARLES VALLOW: State of Idaho/Arizona vs. Lori & Chad Daybell GUILTY

Guess Who · Apr 11, 2024

GrandmaBear said:
I love you but may differ on this one. I see them both as very equally evil, a pair and manipulative at minimum but I think he may be the far deeper evil one if there is a scale with these two that one could be worse than the other. She's socio/psycho she is a shallow Vallow (sorry charles, hate that she has his last name used yet) and anyone in her way even her kids she can tell herself is okay to want gone maybe but she never had before, but Chad helped that out with the light dark scale and his zombie exorcisim thing. I think he is way deeper dark than her IF one is worse than the other. He was telling her everything she wanted to hear, believe and giving her excuses for doing away with people being the right thing to do...

Yes, I'm pretty sure they fed off each other's crazy.

Cousin Dupree · Apr 11, 2024

Guess Who said:
They also probably would have gotten by with a lot if they hadn't just kept killing! Sheesh! Talk about being your own worst enemy.

But.... but... but... they're GODS!!!

GrandmaBear · Apr 11, 2024

Guess Who said:
They also probably would have gotten by with a lot if they hadn't just kept killing! Sheesh! Talk about being your own worst enemy.

They felt though and thought they had the perfect plan like many a dumb murderer and thought themselves smarter. The moving, and different jurisdictions, different players, different vehicles, etc., etc. Lol. I have to laugh because it is a bit like some grade school club and mindsets only with evil as its purpose. I think they were going to swiftly execute these plans and be in the money and the place they wanted to be. OR the fact Charles resulted in no life insurance for Lori fast paced the other plans... Plus right from the start there there was a bit of a loss of control. She did not get the life insurance, she knew Kay did, Tylee and JJ probably were showing signs and life was upset over Charles' death, ,Colby tried to talk with his sister, Kay wanted to talk with JJ, and Larry, Charles' boiy's were not informed the right way about his death and it was lies... Even though Gilbert (it was GIlbert wasn't it?) totally failed in Charles obvious NON self defense murder, Lori had things going on and hitting her and no expected million dollars. I don't know. I just know these two never got near their dream. I don't know if the kids and Tammy's deaths were sped up due to no ife insurance from Charles for Lori or not. Melanie P had a lot of money in her apartment or garage I heard this morning I testimony said. I dont' recall hearing any of this in Lori's but Lori's was not live etc. And Brandon's death was meant to bring in enough to support them all.

Yeah I don't know. I think they truly thought the lack of anyone knowing anything and different people, different areas no one would have a clue not to mention Lori walked off Scott free more than once and so did Alex like in Charles' death having played or flirted with dumb local cops in their minds. They DID push it too far TOO fast. And MISSING children and someone who cared about the children I'd say was the catalyst.

All these cases these days we see where no extended family member in ten years ever said WHERE is MY NIECE? MY GRANDSON? Are almost unbelievable. BUT the perps insulate and are the parents and the others don't have rights.... Or a right to see them daily... Etc. Lori and Chad got rid of anyone who would be concerned where Tylee or JJ were. I mean Joe was gone already. Charles was taken out. And if Alex was having doubts all of a sudden he is dead too. But there were unfortunately for them even though all else was likely under control or they werdKay and Larry who she thought she could move, avoid and of course they had no rights and she didnt consider a huge problem... But that became the downfall. They cared about JJ. Kay's bio grandson. Yet maybe Larry who felt the tightest with him.

I am so overloaded but I think it was Nate last night. How it was said in Lori's trial that _____________________________________ and with there I lost a very important point and can't recall it gol DARN it. And it was a GOOD point.

I have also found something else out today. I cant hear sh*t without sitting next to it and never moving an inch and then even barely and so I will probably go to summaries and tweets etc. as well.

I rIr recall the point of what was said in Lori's versus Chad's I will post that. It WAS a good point and related perfectly.

The sound is so poor unless glued near the sound that I now let myself off the hook of even trying to listen and manage anything else all day every day.

GrandmaBear · Apr 11, 2024

Guess Who said:
Yes, I'm pretty sure they fed off each other's crazy.

Definitely. Agreed. He read her like a book. She may have too but more likely I feel he fed exactly her need and things she wanted to hear and be. And so supported him to no end and bought entirely in.

Both are BAD. EVIL. Lori's kids are victims, Chad's are not as they were older and not the same problem, just as Colby wasn't. But give it time had they needed more life insurance and money... Or if any of those had brought questions or trouble at some point...

And Im sorry but his kids are beyond cutting a break for any longer. I'd like to see a FRICKING ONE stand up for their mother and against what dad did even if it is just his AFFAIR, that would be a start.

GrandmaBear · Apr 11, 2024

Cousin Dupree said:
But.... but... but... they're GODS!!!

I wish I had the eyeroll. available. Yeah God and goddess and eternal beings. Yet Vallow is so very shallow (sorry Charles since it's your last name but it works on who Lori is). A goddess so desperate for her hair bleach, Botox, lipstick and showing attitude and need for attention. ARen't true eternal beings the be all who do not care about or need such creature things as money, appearance, attention... And certainly no need for sex, a human craving, eternal gods and goddesses are beyond that.

These two are so out there and disgusting I don't even have words. But both know exactly what they did and their own selfish intent in doing so and the reason for their plans.

One thing I will NEVER EVER get over and lose thought of is Lori saying "Tammy Daybell was MY FRIEND"! Do you know as her family or loved ones how maddening that would be? And imo that is NOT delusion that is intent and a definite knowledge of how it would hit.

Now I remember what I was going to say. earlier!!! In Lori's trial, ARchibad who was a non attorney basically and laid down fought like HE77 to call Kay and Larry not victim family members with no right to be in the courtroom and in this trial with Prior NO SUCH FIGHT even though PRIOR is GOING TO put on a case. That was ALL LORI. Archibadl was doing what she WANTED. She WANTED to put a thorn in Kay and Larry's side and exclude them and so on. THAT Archibald fought for even before trial. He was doing HER BIDDING. One of the only other times he went hard at someone and was "allowed" or expected to was against Audrey who hit with a hard hit and who Lori was glaring daggers at. Again he was wanted or asked to do that by Lori.

We aren't seeing the same here, Prior had no problem with victim family members being in the courtroom or even fighint over who WAS a victim family member by law. Taht was all Lori. Stickign it to Kay and Larry. The ones who stole her money in her opinion and brought her and Chad down all due to giving a **** about JJ.... And Kay finding the use of Charles credit card for wedding clothing and ring orders, etc.

GrandmaBear · Apr 11, 2024

Okay so jury dismissed and judge doing research on some legal issue. I have said repeatedly in this thread how I feel about Boyce and how he does this and never did have the experience to be on these cases. I don't know WHAT the legal issue is but that's what apparently is going on. And I'm not ONE BIT surprised.

Tresir · Apr 11, 2024

GrandmaBear said:
They felt though and thought they had the perfect plan like many a dumb murderer and thought themselves smarter. The moving, and different jurisdictions, different players, different vehicles, etc., etc. Lol. I have to laugh because it is a bit like some grade school club and mindsets only with evil as its purpose. I think they were going to swiftly execute these plans and be in the money and the place they wanted to be. OR the fact Charles resulted in no life insurance for Lori fast paced the other plans... Plus right from the start there there was a bit of a loss of control. She did not get the life insurance, she knew Kay did, Tylee and JJ probably were showing signs and life was upset over Charles' death, ,Colby tried to talk with his sister, Kay wanted to talk with JJ, and Larry, Charles' boiy's were not informed the right way about his death and it was lies... Even though Gilbert (it was GIlbert wasn't it?) totally failed in Charles obvious NON self defense murder, Lori had things going on and hitting her and no expected million dollars. I don't know. I just know these two never got near their dream. I don't know if the kids and Tammy's deaths were sped up due to no ife insurance from Charles for Lori or not. Melanie P had a lot of money in her apartment or garage I heard this morning I testimony said. I dont' recall hearing any of this in Lori's but Lori's was not live etc. And Brandon's death was meant to bring in enough to support them all.

Yeah I don't know. I think they truly thought the lack of anyone knowing anything and different people, different areas no one would have a clue not to mention Lori walked off Scott free more than once and so did Alex like in Charles' death having played or flirted with dumb local cops in their minds. They DID push it too far TOO fast. And MISSING children and someone who cared about the children I'd say was the catalyst.

All these cases these days we see where no extended family member in ten years ever said WHERE is MY NIECE? MY GRANDSON? Are almost unbelievable. BUT the perps insulate and are the parents and the others don't have rights.... Or a right to see them daily... Etc. Lori and Chad got rid of anyone who would be concerned where Tylee or JJ were. I mean Joe was gone already. Charles was taken out. And if Alex was having doubts all of a sudden he is dead too. But there were unfortunately for them even though all else was likely under control or they werdKay and Larry who she thought she could move, avoid and of course they had no rights and she didnt consider a huge problem... But that became the downfall. They cared about JJ. Kay's bio grandson. Yet maybe Larry who felt the tightest with him.

I am so overloaded but I think it was Nate last night. How it was said in Lori's trial that _____________________________________ and with there I lost a very important point and can't recall it gol DARN it. And it was a GOOD point.

I have also found something else out today. I cant hear sh*t without sitting next to it and never moving an inch and then even barely and so I will probably go to summaries and tweets etc. as well.

I rIr recall the point of what was said in Lori's versus Chad's I will post that. It WAS a good point and related perfectly.

The sound is so poor unless glued near the sound that I now let myself off the hook of even trying to listen and manage anything else all day every day.

Your summing up here made me think of something. If they had got the life insurance money from Charles, would the kids and Tammy still be alive? They didnt get Charles' million and so Chad increased Tammy's insurance and they killed her. Was it really all about money?

Kimster · Apr 11, 2024

Tresir said:
Your summing up here made me think of something. If they had got the life insurance money from Charles, would the kids and Tammy still be alive? They didnt get Charles' million and so Chad increased Tammy's insurance and they killed her. Was it really all about money?

Personally, I think they would have kept going anyway. Neither one of them appeared to want to work for a living. Why would they? They were "gods".

GrandmaBear · Apr 11, 2024

For the record for those asking earlier Charles died July 11th.

Kimster · Apr 11, 2024

I wonder if they were trying to get as much out of Alex as they could before Alex would also "expire". I know his death was ruled accidental, but it's hard for me to believe it. They seemed to ramp up the killing spree in the fall.

Kimster · Apr 11, 2024

Do jurors expect to see video recordings of everything that police are doing nowadays? I wouldn't expect it but maybe I'm out of the loop on this topic. Prior keeps asking about it.

GrandmaBear · Apr 11, 2024

Kimster said:
Do jurors expect to see video recordings of everything that police are doing nowadays? I wouldn't expect it but maybe I'm out of the loop on this topic. Prior keeps asking about it.

This is what? Five years ago now? It's over those five years and in the more recent ones I'd say that I know I've been griping in cases that nowadays there should always be a BODYCAM, car cam, cops should be required to have them and have them on and provided them but five years ago no, I'd say it was still not uncommon for it not to be the case especially in more rural areas, smaller counties, etc. and not necessarily intentionally hiding anything either. Even NOW I don't think there is any like federal rule or state rule on such but I have felt for some years there should be. it protects all sides.

So John is just making whatever out of whatever. At this point all they had was a welfare check, etc. as well.

HOWEVER, if no camera, what the officer said Chad or Alex looked like or acted like is based on a jury taking his word for it as there's no back up recording for it right? Which again is a case in point of why they should always have such.

I myself have little doubt Chad and Alex were like a startled deer in headlights when asked where JJ was and little doubt Chad was when asked if he knew Lori and for her number. It WOULD though be extra great and far better evidence if they DID have this on camera. No doubt.

Imo there's little reason such could be expected or assumed five years ago but Prior is making the point he is as today it is assumed or thought all should and if such isn't or isn't working then what are cops up to? Which is yet another reason to always have them and have them on to protect self and the cases.

I though don't think it unusual at all five years ago somewhere like Rexburg checking on a kid and family that had never lived there prior, etc. or big enough to necessarily yet be using them in all cases.

Prior is playing imo on a jury or any of us who he thinks expects video, proof of every single thing by video, DNA and so on.

I'm pretty sick of him at the moment and I can't imagine that the jury isn't as well. Jmo.

Kimster · Apr 11, 2024

GrandmaBear said:
This is what? Five years ago now? It's over those five years and in the more recent ones I'd say that I know I've been griping in cases that nowadays there should always be a BODYCAM, car cam, cops should be required to have them and have them on and provided them but five years ago no, I'd say it was still not uncommon for it not to be the case especially in more rural areas, smaller counties, etc. and not necessarily intentionally hiding anything either. Even NOW I don't think there is any like federal rule or state rule on such but I have felt for some years there should be. it protects all sides.

So John is just making whatever out of whatever. At this point all they had was a welfare check, etc. as well.

HOWEVER, if no camera, what the officer said Chad or Alex looked like or acted like is based on a jury taking his word for it as there's no back up recording for it right? Which again is a case in point of why they should always have such.

I myself have little doubt Chad and Alex were like a startled deer in headlights when asked where JJ was and little doubt Chad was when asked if he knew Lori and for her number. It WOULD though be extra great and far better evidence if they DID have this on camera. No doubt.

Imo there's little reason such could be expected or assumed five years ago but Prior is making the point he is as today it is assumed or thought all should and if such isn't or isn't working then what are cops up to? Which is yet another reason to always have them and have them on to protect self and the cases.

I though don't think it unusual at all five years ago somewhere like Rexburg checking on a kid and family that had never lived there prior, etc. or big enough to necessarily yet be using them in all cases.

Prior is playing imo on a jury or any of us who he thinks expects video, proof of every single thing by video, DNA and so on.

I'm pretty sick of him at the moment and I can't imagine that the jury isn't as well. Jmo.

Chad always acted surprised about everything. Or did he? He seemed so to us regular folk, but maybe he's just got strange looks about him. He's not your normal run-of-the-mill personality, IMO.

Tresir · Apr 11, 2024

Cousin Dupree said:
But.... but... but... they're GODS!!!

No they are Demons.

Tresir · Apr 11, 2024

Kimster said:
Do jurors expect to see video recordings of everything that police are doing nowadays? I wouldn't expect it but maybe I'm out of the loop on this topic. Prior keeps asking about it.

I did think it strange that a detective would be sent to do a welfare check as I would have thought that would be job for a uniform officer ( therefore wearing a camera ). He/they should have taken a uniformed camera wearing officer with them IMO. I know that's hindsight of course. Did this come up at all in Lori's trial? Hermosillo's colleagues should be called to verify his testimony to dispel any doubt hopefully.

ETA Oh I see now - the colleagues went out at different times so cannot corroborate the testimony.

Kimster said:
I wonder if they were trying to get as much out of Alex as they could before Alex would also "expire". I know his death was ruled accidental, but it's hard for me to believe it. They seemed to ramp up the killing spree in the fall.

Funny we were just discussing the timing. So only just over 4 years ago.

GrandmaBear · Apr 11, 2024

Kimster said:
I wonder if they were trying to get as much out of Alex as they could before Alex would also "expire". I know his death was ruled accidental, but it's hard for me to believe it. They seemed to ramp up the killing spree in the fall.

I think it was ruled of natural causes and I don't buy it for a moment and never will. And imo that whole weird deal makes Zulema very suspect as well. As did their marriage and the fact her grown son did not even know they were married, I think I have that all correct. There is sooo much weird sh*t that has come out amongst others in these cases that are not part of these trials or charges at least... Get the big dogs first I guess and then we will see what they do... Both Mels are guilty of things as well imo and just the tip of the iceberg I think we are talking...

I mean they are charging Lori for Brandon's attempted murder but not Mel P?

And Mel G and David were present imo when JJ died.

Give me a break that we have the whole truth from any of these others.

GrandmaBear · Apr 11, 2024

Tresir said:
I did think it strange that a detective would be sent to do a welfare check as I would have thought that would be job for a uniform officer ( therefore wearing a camera ). He/they should have taken a uniformed camera wearing officer with them IMO. I know that's hindsight of course. Did this come up at all in Lori's trial? Hermosillo's colleagues should be called to verify his testimony to dispel any doubt hopefully.

ETA Oh I see now - the colleagues went out at different times so cannot corroborate the testimony.

Funny we were just discussing the timing. So only just over 4 years ago.

He was contacted about the jeep and attempted shooting first which I think we as the reason a detective was on it no?

I'd also say in small departments it is not unheard of for a detective to go out like a uniformed officer at times to do standard work and they had more on this one or the beginnings of something it seems. They already knew of Chad's very fast marriage to Lori and more. By now Gilbert had been contacted by Kay who likely had a lot to say and question re Charles' death, Lori, missing children and more and Gilbert probably even did a relook and then when Kay contacted with the wedding ring info and address a real investigation probably started or was considered...

I think it would be better if they had video, however, I'd say five years ago it wouldn't have necessarily been common in many a place.

Kimster · Apr 11, 2024

GrandmaBear said:
He was contacted about the jeep and attempted shooting first which I think we as the reason a detective was on it no?

I'd also say in small departments it is not unheard of for a detective to go out like a uniformed officer at times to do standard work and they had more on this one or the beginnings of something it seems. They already knew of Chad's very fast marriage to Lori and more. By now Gilbert had been contacted by Kay who likely had a lot to say and question re Charles' death, Lori, missing children and more and Gilbert probably even did a relook and then when Kay contacted with the wedding ring info and address a real investigation probably started or was considered...

I think it would be better if they had video, however, I'd say five years ago it wouldn't have necessarily been common in many a place.

That's a good point. And I happen to know that body cameras for law enforcement are not cheap. They have all kinds of regulations up and down that are required for using them, which jacks up the price from what us regular folk would pay for a go pro.

Kimster · Apr 11, 2024

Back from lunch and Prior is continuing his cross examination of Det. Hermosillo.

Kimster · Apr 11, 2024

1:22 p.m. Prior says we don’t know who was driving the Dodge Dakota. Hermosillo says that’s correct. Prior jumps back to June 9 and asks about Daybell leaving the scene of his house at a high rate of speed. Hermosillo says Daybell didn’t take off in the Dodge Dakota – it was another vehicle.
1:25 p.m. Prior asking about Alex Googling what type of caliber was needed to shoot at a Dodge Dakota. Prior says we don’t know who Alex’s target was but it was likely someone who owned the vehicle. Hermosillo says correct.

I think Prior is trying to insinuate that Alex was shooting to kill Chad, not Tammy. (This was the day of the botched shooting that Tammy thought was a paint gun.) Correct me if I'm wrong here. And if that's the purpose, how will Prior explain away Chad's light and dark list?

Here's more of this discourse:

Prior shows another exhibit that shows Alex Googled "sharpening swords" three days after Tammy Daybell died. On Oct. 23, he Googled, "15 Facts About 'Silence of the Lambs' You Didn't Know." Prior asks Hermosillo if he recalled that search. Hermosillo does not.

JOSHUA "JJ" VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN, TAMMY DAYBELL, & CHARLES VALLOW: State of Idaho/Arizona vs. Lori & Chad Daybell *GUILTY*

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JOSHUA "JJ" VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN, TAMMY DAYBELL, & CHARLES VALLOW: State of Idaho/Arizona vs. Lori & Chad Daybell GUILTY