JOSHUA "JJ" VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN, TAMMY DAYBELL, & CHARLES VALLOW: State of Idaho/Arizona vs. Lori & Chad Daybell GUILTY

GrandmaBear · Tuesday at 4:51 AM

And to be fair, Nate is really on it. I just lose my humor sometimes. He is giving great coverage and Justin too. Just need that funny bone to kick back in. It's just such a case as you said, there's so much to it and she is so hard to take. Again, the Charles call got me.

GrandmaBear · Tuesday at 5:19 AM

I'm now watching the entire hearing. Pretty darned interesting and it helps to see a grounded court procedure. Can tell the P is not giving away anything they don't have to. Lori is sure trying and judge does listen.

As said, I think the Charles call tipped me over and the sensational does too at times. I hate it when cases turn into like a circus but then one gets the seriousness of the courtroom which is what it needs to be, but isn't always in some cases.

Pretty worth it so far.

Hey, I linked even when couldn't watch, for others, and I've watched almost every hearing in a number of these cases that are heated up right now. Anyhow, yes, it's worthwhile so far.

Lori is on right now who two personal witnesses got their info from Dateline and then compared notes. So yeah, the whole media b.s. comes in, from her anyhow. If she was anyone else, I'd even agree to a point as I've never thought throughout these yrs that all of the interviews and family on and such was a good idea. As a crime follower I want to see all I can and it helps when such goes on but as a good idea, I don't agree, if that makes any sense.

Now I'm just trying to give some info on the hearing as I watch.

And Lori in the last hearings gets stuck on the public thing and someone is telling her since she claimed she can't watch or read many of these things and so it's either its talk at the jail, a visitor to another inmate, or another guess would be her mom or Summer informing her of what all goes on.

I hesitate to say more, thankfully, I'm sure, about the publicity and such and shows that have been used and made in this case and from relatives too. That's another thing too, every relative of hers was popping up again and you name it. That bothered as well.

This is serious sh*t, the court hearing and judge are helping ground it again. Imo. The P is serious and seems to have done their job and all things in a timely manner.

GrandmaBear · Tuesday at 5:33 AM

Wow, so a friend told Charles he should tell her (Lori) that he changed the beneficiary and advised him on what he should do?? Nancy Hancock I think said. Last person that saw Charles ali

Man, interesting stuff. Yes, Lori would have probably halted any murder plan if she knew she wasn't beneficiary until she could make suack. was Thats sad too, but was good advice imo. She'd have killed him eventually but probably would have halted if she knew she wouldn't get the life insurance, at least for a moment maybe.

Just trying to help and tell some of this as I belatedly watch, it's such a hard one to keep up with.

GrandmaBear · Tuesday at 5:35 AM

And of course she is trying to keep Kay out. We know Lori is going to go at Kay on the stand. That's a given.

GrandmaBear · Tuesday at 5:53 AM

Ooooh. This is why the hearingis are worth it and I'm glad I saw the last one where the judge offered her a continuance and now he is exlcuding her PI who by the way was definitely on top of his job, but her complaint was at the last hearing, not this one, that the State hadnt let her get one until a week before or some such, now claiming he has other cases and so on. HE is handling the speedy trial thing imo better than Boyce did in ID. He keeps letting her know she is late with things, she can stop the speedy trial and get more time, but she declined, etc. the last time. I did share most from that hearing and I found it kind of humorous. I'm glad I am watching this because I was up on it until this hearing.

Imo it's fairly obvious what she's trying for (Lori).

ETA: Not sure it is her PI, might be her expert. Anyhow he hasn't got his report in, she wouldn't take more time, etc., etc.

GrandmaBear · Tuesday at 6:22 AM

Honestly, like the last time, even more so this time, he coud legitimately deny Lori almost everything for being late lol. And the State has every right based on that to ask that all be denied, her witnesses excluded, etc. He's being more than fair though. Lori tries and I think she thinks herself a lawyer, or is trying to act like one, and even though I have a poor opinion of some lawyers myself in life, clearly she isn't. It's just pretty interesting really.

It doesn't show in the courtroom but I'm sure this judge is working a lot more hours than we know with this and getting advice and help too. Another thing I'd point out is like last time the P was at the table by herself most of the hearing but then someone joined her. Similar here, there are two but it looks as if she is the only P when one watches.

It's interesting because imo they don't want it to look as though the State has all the help and she has none, etc.

Nothing wrong with doing that, I'm just saying people then think a D is being bullied, has no help or resources, etc. like the State does. It's being made an issue of these days...i
It's very public of course and imo they want it to look fair.

I recall once way back when when I attended something and I saw an LE officer sitting at the table with the P. I couldn't believe it. I was pretty naive yet. I thought HOW can they be on one side or the other. In uniform. Of course that has an effect on civilians or a jury, I mean I was thinking that way immediately. @Cousin Dupree you see, I do think some things like this, I just don't think every D is innocent lol.

Anyhow I had avoided this hearing til now but had watched the others. And I think they are being as they should be, very, very careful. I really like this judge. I was not a Boyce fan as most know but by the end he HAD grown on me. This one is not going to let the speedy trial thing she plays get the best of the system. Boyce did imo or she would have been on death row just like Chad. Although I want to make it clear he did grow on me by the end and he did do a good job at trial.

Lori is trying to play cards imo that poorer D attys play but for a civilian, well, she's trying right? To me that's as naive as I was in my 20s and we know she's far from that, I do get it. And I'm notn always a fan of our system and yes, it can be loaded or weighted one way, and yes there are dirty or corrupt ones in it. They are going way out of their way here imo to show that's not the case here and she is being treated way more than fairly. Personally I don't think she deserves it but she is going to be hard put to come up with a lot on appeal although she will complain I'm sure about the lack of time in jail, access to what she needed, only getting someone approved and pd for at the last minute, and no pen and probably about her former D attys, etc. but she's not winning the trying to turn it into her own show. And I'm glad of that.

I don't donate to dumb stuff but I'd donate to this judge's vacation fund if one was legal or there was one lol. His patience is exceptional although I can see the weight on him and frustration trying to be hidden more than in the last hearing.

I can't stand Lori but I will say this and it hurts that she is causing it but this is making courts really get on their stuff and make sure all is stellar and done right. That's not to her credit though, she is trying to make it something else, it is due to knowing the world is watching, or some of it.

Anyhow, there I go again but the entire post WAS related to this at least.

GrandmaBear · Tuesday at 6:39 AM

Ooohh and she's trying to bring in "the church". Man could I talk of and go down a rabbit hole as to this case on that one... Not a weird rabbit hole, real happenings.

I won't. It's all too convoluted as it is. One day maybe when it's all over and things calm down.

You know, she wants or thinks she is going to make this into something that most of is not even going to be allowed. And I don't think she's that dumb or doesn't know it won't be allowed by now... The Judge has pretty much touched on such things in at least two, if not more, hearings now. Relevant information. Hearsay. Etc. This paragraph in no way relates to the church comment I just made, totally different subject. I'm talking about when he told her in the last hearing b4 this one that she had to have a list of questions for someone to ask her if she's going to take the stand. He is well not advising her exactly as they can't but told her pretty much she's not going to just be able to like tell a story unchecked or go on (my words, not his at all) as I do here sometimes lol.

I'm trying to figure it because I know that's what she likely wanted and hoped for... And she knows better by now... Maybe that's why she is getting a bit more upset acting where generally she tries to be so "cool" for a convicted felon and older lady lol.

What is really hard to understand is does she really think she's going to win hearts over and change things? She has BEEN convicted. I'm not saying the jury will know that but we do.

We know she likes the limelight, however, she's not who she was when she used such and had botox. Of course I should quit such remarks as she is the type to probably try to use such.

She's had fair jurors and a fair trial before, more than, even got the DP removed. She CHOSE to not let her atty put on a defense.

I was going to resist it but saw and linked enough of his interviews and did watch some but Keith Morrison's remarks on her were pretty interesting, maybe it's just TV and such, but I think they are likely pretty true.

GrandmaBear · Tuesday at 6:49 AM

Trying to call her mom and sister, State saying doubt anything relevant.

Guessing she is trying a couple of things. Someone is telling her of shows, comments, etc., could be them. Second guess is she was telling them that she was worried of Charles, etc. and she thinks she can get in that they knew she was in "danger" which will never happen.

OMG now she just said "trial by ambush". That was recently said in the Read case. There is no way she is not watching stuff OR being told of such things. That's so obvious it isn't even funny, using that term. Brennan used it recently in a Read hearing. I suppose Lori wants people to think she "coined' the term. What a mockery she is trying to make it. She is getting a bit dramatic now.

Might need a break. Happy news for all, right Anyhow, just really trying to cover it while watching. There is no way any of us could keep up in this one and so trying to share.

GrandmaBear · Tuesday at 6:51 AM

Okay, have to correct one thing. I guess the State used the trial by ambush term Lori is having a fit about, so had that backwards.

GrandmaBear · Tuesday at 7:08 AM

OMG chuckling out loud now. He's telling her again she can't have it both ways with the speedy trial rights. LMAO.

Ha ha lol, he's telling her it takes time to do all properly, give notice, it is why her form defense team wanted more time but she wanted speedy trial rights and she's not within her time and so on and so on. He is NOT going to be gamed by this game lol as I kind of feel Boyce was. I need to go lay down but loving that one. He is putting it right on record and for all the public to hear in each hearing, he has offered her more time. He is now putting in her face it was her choice. LMAO. I think I might be in love with this judge lol. I'm still laughing out loud. Tears streaming. I'm not even noticing her b.s. or upset or attempts as he is ruling that room lol. Man, his patience. LMAO. It makes her look like a child at the moment imo. But it's not just patience, he KNOWS her game and the speedy trial thing. LOL. Oh Lolo, give it up. I don't say such very often but I'm impressed here. And needed the chuckle, and no it isnt pred as I haven't taken that last one yet. He is just so good lol.

I'm sure he's at wit's end if he ever gets to go home at night lol but he sure isn't showing it, a bit more frustrated maybe than last time but he is well prepared for her and yet not a soul imo can argue he hasn't been anything but MORE than fair to her, more than he has to be imo, in these hearings and process. I wouldn't even doubt he's had help but we never see that part. Man, just impressed. Now I'm glad I've managed somehow to watch the hearings, I was late on this one as just had had a fill.

I know others have watched before me but I can't help but give these reactions. I am still chuckling out loud. I need a Kleenex lol for tears. It probably helps that I saw the other one prior too and nI know he has offered her more time etc. and said she chose speedy trial lol, man is he documenting his decisions etc well.

GrandmaBear · Tuesday at 7:19 AM

OMG now about her father being needed as to the life insurance policies. Interesting again... That is pretty interesting given things that have been said about dad. I'll leave it at that but note, he's never been one to come forward, mom and sister have had to... At the same time she is getting upset...

WOW. I almost wish I could make the judge take a break and go have a steak and a cocktail lol. He deserves one.

GrandmaBear · Tuesday at 7:26 AM

OMG is this worth it. Man. And I thought the last hearing was. Pick this instead of a movie lol. It's sanely tempered however by the judge or I'd have lost it by now.

GrandmaBear · Tuesday at 8:00 AM

Keeps talking about how she can't call people, etc... Limitations at this maximum security jail.... She kind of dances around the subject... In at least two hearings now...

It has me really curious. Did she get herself in trouble over something...?? I mean we know in Soto, Delphi, etc. they can call people anytime they like but she's claiming she can't... Different state I get that but seems to be the norm even when they are in some max custody these days... The State says they can't reach any of her witnesses and they have the right to...

I'm wondering what trouble she got into and over what... Now we could go the route of thinking the jail is being unfair to her or keeping her abilities down to prep for trial but this is Lori, AND she'd be saying so IF SO imo. She'd be screaming it at this hearing...

Maybe I'm going to deep but she goes on about how she thinks Nate was advised by the State how to avoid a subpoena but yet the State has been unable to get a hold of basically a single one of hers, especiall her family it sounds like, to me that sounds like they know how to avoid subpoenaes... So who tells who what... I think Lori is the cat/rat here... She wants to call her mom, dad, Summer but judge advises of course State has a right to talk to them all, this is really pretty darned interesting... State has pretty much told judge they've done their part, been on time with all timelines, etc. and that almost all of Lori's things should really be tossed/precluded. I think they are right but he's not going to be that unfair to her imo, and it's really not unfair but...

I mean one could think I guess they are purposely making it hard for her, the jail is, all are... She yells about her help being overloaded when they do have time with other cases, trying to be nice to them, as in they do what they can, but limited time, but then the judge lol reminds her she is again the one who wants things speedy.... It's pretty darned interesting yet again.

More came up about the trial by ambush and the State said that's what she's doing. i know I tend to be P sided, State sided, etc. or some would think so but to me it is pretty clear here it is Lori trying to play the game. I think they've all been and judge still is, etc. very, very careful to ensure she is treated fairly and things are done right, they know tons of people are watching.

I hope these posts aren't a PIA, I'm really trying to inform on this hearing. I know sometimes I can't watch in some cases, etc. and know I appreciate when I can't get to all links and others are willing to inform me so that's what I'm trying to do here.

I'm getting towards the end lol, not there yet. I imagine Lori thinks she is the one garnering the attn but honestly despite her upset and the headline, she is faded to me as I watch how well this is all handled. Her shrill little girly voice but shrill at the moment is having almost no effect, this is all being handled so well while I think she's been trying to derail it.

I'd add one thing that is kind of a sideline--I think they aren't amused by her speedy trial thing and what not, but I've learned a few things too. I do disagree where defendants and people in general in any kind of case can't afford attys, etc. and don't get the same help, that's part of what I think she's trying to play. I HATE the slowness of our justice system and it is often ridiculous, but the judge pointed out a few reasons for things taking time, and how speedy trial kind of limits that (paraphrasing).

She is trying imo to play the system against itself and use all the things many believe, and some I do too, not all, and it's not even coming close to working for her and she's getting more upset by the minute and in each hearing.

Some fell for it in Delphi, and I'm not saying who is right or wrong, but in this case, I don't believe for a minute she's been unfairly treated in jail or court because they are being so absolutely careful and above board, it is her that is the one playing the games. If it was anyone else, and they weren't handling it so well, I might wonder but not here. I think she's trying to use all those common cards though, the problem is she's not a sympathetic defendant in any way, shape or form. I mean she's still worried about the hair, she's not RA in Delphi who I don't buy for a minute but I can see how some could. She's lost her ability imo to charm although Keith Morrison did say he could see how she could, and she's NOT used to that. This is being treated as it should be as a very serious court trial and i like that.

I hope the posts aren't bothering anyone, I'm on where I'm sticking to the subject, and this case is going to be busy so thought it might help to cover what I'm seeing before even more starts happening. Hope it has. A bit more to go in it. I know some have already watched it, just trying to share as I do. Many have helped me when I can't and have to ask questions in cases and can't look into myself. That's my intent.

RoundPeg · Tuesday at 8:19 AM

I'm looking forward to the trial. Is she currently on psych meds? Anyone know?

GrandmaBear · Tuesday at 8:20 AM

Oh it never ends. I'm sorry. So now and she's a lot on constitutional rights, federal law, etc., we know the thing all of us I think, and she goes on about in her motion, or one of many, that her talks with if i have it right with her appeals atty in ID were not confidential.

Then when a confidential line was set up, again if I have it right, the appeals atty or ID atty, didn't use it but was using different IP addresses to contact her and the Judge is telling her it appears her own atty if anyone caused it, where she was trying to accuse the State or some such.

I tell ya, she thinks she's smarter and is trying to play the system and it is not working at all lmao.

Personally I think shes been trying to since early on.

She sounds like what was said and heard about her dad back when, to be fair maybe she was raised with such, and I hate being fair with her. Anti gov, fed stuff, rights, and so on. I agree such matters but she's gaming this.

She's not an innocent D, she uses this sh*t and probably always has to then try to get out of things, now anyhow. Or excuse them, or convince people to follow such with her and so on. It's not workign for her, the one used to uh charming people and controlling them, or getting her posse, and she is not liking it one bit. WE know she's already been convicted on Tammy and the kids. She is trying to use what most do, and in some cases maybe I'd wonder or think about falling for it, but not in hers.

I've been on more fiction lately to lighten up, but this is worth the watch. IMO. The judge does have one bald spot but I have to wonder if it's not from tearing his hair out. LOL.

GrandmaBear · Tuesday at 8:30 AM

RoundPeg said:
I'm looking forward to the trial. Is she currently on psych meds? Anyone know?

I don't know. She's got no kind of insanity or med claim going on in this one and with HIPPA and all we probably wouldn't know. If I recall, you and I think a bit differently on her, I don't think she's mentally got issues but I know that's a subject that's just very debatable in any case these days, and I guess depends on how one looks at such.

In the last hearing (well both now) but the last one, she referred to having only one hour a day, not being able to call anyone, etc., etc. as an excuse for why she wasn't timely with filings. Yet in this one maybe that's her games of not wanting to be recorded while she plots or whatever, that's my words, not anything from the courtroom. I "intuit" that from a lot going on she has saiI d and then the judge pointed out it was her own atty that didn't use the confidential line where she was accusing the State and such of hearing confidential atty/client stuff. I mean she has either learned or been taught this stuff but it isn't flying and it shouldn't imo.

I have real trouble feeling any sympathy for her and personally I feel the entire sanity thing in the last years/trial was played, not that we have to agree.

I'm looking forward to the trial but in the same breath it all can get a bit much.

Anyhow, I don't know about the meds, maybe others do. She resists any mental competency defense as we know so unless forced, not sure she'd take them anyhow?

They've been quite the hearings but that judge knows what he is doing, imo, but man I bet he will be glad when it's all over. If he doesn't go home and scream or have some acreage he can do that on, I feel for him. I did that on my rural property a time or two over a few very hard things.

RoundPeg · Tuesday at 9:00 AM

I'm just wondering what happens if she more or less spirals to the point she can't be her own attorney any longer. Will her advisors jump in say "hey we have a huge problem here"?

Kimster · Tuesday at 9:22 AM

Tresir said:
I saw the video of him talking to LE about her a long time ago but pretty sure i have never heard the telephone insurance call.

I am pretty sure Az dropped the ball on this in not prosecuting her and Alex but pretty sure that's why they moved states to Idaho to avoid any chances. Then the two of them realised getting rid of the kids and Tammy was justified too by their dark zombie ratings.

I think they dropped the ball, too. How many people shoot and kill another person in self-defense and are only questioned once?

Kimster · Tuesday at 9:24 AM

RoundPeg said:
I'm looking forward to the trial. Is she currently on psych meds? Anyone know?

It’s never been mentioned that I know of? I wasn’t able to catch up on anything last night. And now I’m out of time so I can’t read all the updates here either. Sometimes that happens! I miss a huge chunk of what’s going on due to life.

Kimster · Tuesday at 9:25 AM

RoundPeg said:
I'm just wondering what happens if she more or less spirals to the point she can't be her own attorney any longer. Will her advisors jump in say "hey we have a huge problem here"?

They would have to approach the judge, I think. He’s the one who determined that she could represent herself.

JOSHUA "JJ" VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN, TAMMY DAYBELL, & CHARLES VALLOW: State of Idaho/Arizona vs. Lori & Chad Daybell *GUILTY*

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JOSHUA "JJ" VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN, TAMMY DAYBELL, & CHARLES VALLOW: State of Idaho/Arizona vs. Lori & Chad Daybell GUILTY