Day 4 - 10th April 2025
Afternoon
Lori Vallow Daybell is on trial in Maricopa County, Arizona, on one charge of conspiracy to commit the murder of Charles Vallow, her fourth husband. Nate Eaton is live in the courtroom with updates. Please excuse any typos. Times listed below are in Mountain Standard Time, so they are an hour behind Idaho. (Arizona does not observe Daylight Saving Time.) The most recent updates are at the top.
4:15 p.m. Jury has left the room and there is nothing further today. Join me tonight on “Courtroom Insider” at 8 p.m. MT and we will break it all down.
4:14 p.m. Kay leaves and goes back to her seat where Colby gives her a hug. Judge reminds the jury that we will start at 10 a.m. on Monday and Tuesday. No court tomorrow.
4:13 p.m. Treena asks if, on July 11, did she have any idea her brother was dead? “No. None at all! How would I have known?” Kay says she learned from Google that her husband found that she learned her brother was dead. Treena has nothing further. There are no juror questions. Kay is released from the stand.
4:12 p.m. Treena clarifies about the relationship between Charles and Tylee. Kay says she was a teenager and they did have good times, but there were a lot of issues with her dad, Lori, custody, “it was a mess.” Tylee had a lot going on in her life.
4:11 p.m. “Ms. Woodcock, did you see or hear me conspire to kill my husband Charles Vallow?” Kay: “No, but I saw a ton of evidence.” Lori has no further questions.
4:10 p.m. “You weren’t really aware of the events that happened that morning?” Kay says, “No, I wasn’t, because you didn’t tell me!”
4:09 p.m. Lori asks, “Ms. Woodcock, where were you on July 11, 2019?” Kay says, “At home in Lake Charles, Louisiana.” Lori asks Kay if she was aware of the relationship between Charles and Tylee. Kay says it was contentious and always drama going on. “He didn’t say too much about it and I didn’t pry.”
4:08 p.m. Kay had no further communciation with Lori. Treena is done. Now Lori will question Kay. Kay is staring at Lori as she walks up.
4:07 p.m. Lori had told Kay she could go pick up JJ, bring him back to Texas for Charles’ service and then fly him home. When Lori found the change of beneficiary, she said JJ could no longer go to the service, and he needed to be with her.
4:06 p.m. Lori sent Kay a text one night. It was a screenshot of the change of beneficiary form with Kay’s name on it. “She said something to the effect of 5 kids, and his sister gets all the money. Is that why you want JJ’ – something to that effect. Kay says that was a “dumb statement.” She had Colby, Tylee and JJ – and Colby was out of the house.
4:05 p.m. The following week, a lady from Banner Life Insurance called and told Kay she was the sole beneficiary. She asked for Kay’s address so the check could be sent out.
4:04 p.m. Lori gave permission for Kay to go to the Houston house and get whatever she needed. Nothing belonging to Charles or JJ was there. Just his business files and the big furniture.
4:03 p.m. Treena asks if Kay set up a service for Charles. They made arrangements to have a memorial service in August. Kay was trying to be nice to Lori “because I knew he had something to do with his murder.” Kay says she isn’t one who can just lie off the cuff – “I’m a bad liar” so when Kay did talk to her, it was a “long awkward conversation.”
4:02 p.m. Lori had Charles cremated and his cremains were sent via Fed Ex to Kay’s office. Some high school jackets and some trinkets were also sent. “Charles had a watch collection and she just sent some crap.”
4:01 p.m. Kay got on a plane and was here by noon the next day. They met with Det. Moffatt and told him about the life insurance policy. She didn’t know if Charles had ever changed the policy. “And we had to get JJ. He was not safe with her.”
4 p.m. Kay tried to reach Lori but Lori was too busy to talk to her. A few people in the audience are wiping tears from their eyes. Kay ended up calling a detective in Chandler to try and get information.
3:58 p.m. Kay was shocked and asked Cole if he called Lori. Cole said Lori was not answering. Kay was trying to get out of the nail salon. She called Larry and Larry started to do some research. Larry called Kay back and said, “He’s dead. Alex killed him yesterday.” Kay begins to cry and says, “It was horrible. I had to call my siblings and let them know.” Kay begins to sob. “Everybody was freaking out. I didn’t know what to do.”
3:56 p.m. Kay knew Charles was in good hands with Adam in Phoenix because “they loved Adam.” Kay was at a nail salon with her granddaughter on July 12 when she got a call from Cole saying, “What is going on? I just got a text from Lori and she says Dad is dead.”
3:54 p.m. The last time Kay saw Charles was in June 2019. He came to Lake Charles for the weekend. JJ was not with him. The last time Kay saw JJ was May 18. Charles texted Kay the night before he was shot. Said he was going to be in Phoenix, asking how Kay is, just a short text.
3:53 p.m. In early February 2019, Charles told Kay he was going to take Lori off as a beneficiary. They talked for maybe a minute and a half. Kay said, “Ok, whatever. I never really want to be that person.” Kay never followed up and didn’t know until she got the phone call after he was killed.
3:51 p.m. Treena asks Kay if Lori ever worked. Kay says she worked as a hairdresser early on but she never saw Lori working outside the home. Charles worked so Lori could stay home and tend to the kids.
3:50 p.m. JJ moved with Lori back to Arizona when she left. Charles did not move back.
3:48 p.m. Kay had access to Charles’ bank records and accounts. She knew he was getting $125,000 commission check. Lori stayed in Texas through the end of May.
3:45 p.m. On March 28, 2019, Charles said we are moving to Houston. I’ll fly you out Sunday. Lori said she had something she was doing in Hawaii and she had to go for two weeks. Kay says Lori was gone for 72 days total. She and Tylee them moved into Charles’ Houston house. Lori slept in JJ’s room.
3:44 p.m. Charles moved to Houston with JJ. During the 58 days, Treena asks if Charles still wanted Lori to be part of JJ’s life. “He did. He was never trying to take that away from Lori even though Lori didn’t want him anymore. I never really understood that. I guess he was just hoping for the best.”
3:42 p.m. Lori eventually came over and said, “I love you, Kay, Kay.” Kay said she was sorry this was happening. Lori started to cry and then walked away.
3:41 p.m. When Kay was there, Lori showed up at the house as Kay was helping him pack. Lori started to yell at Charles, “Why did you take JJ? Why did you take him out of school?” This was after Lori was gone for 58 days and didn’t have any contact. Charles started to cry. “Charles was a very soft-spoken man and he was just trying to get a word in edgewise. Finally Lori settled down a little bit.” Lori and Charles talked for a while.
3:40 p.m. Charles had to change over all the passwords and computer logins for his company, so Lori couldn’t log in. Kay and Larry owned a transportation company for the oil and gas industry.
3:38 p.m. Kay worked remotely and was back and forth between Louisiana and Phoenix from February and the end of March. At the end of March, Kay was moving Charles to Houston with JJ. “Charles told me Lori did not want JJ anymore or Tylee anymore. I said ok. Look, what if you move to Houston and I’ll be 2.5 hours away and when you go out of town, I’ll come and stay with JJ.”
3:37 p.m. “Charles was a mess. He was broken. He was a broken-hearted man.” JJ was with Charles and, as far as Kay knew, Tylee was staying at Lori’s brother’s home. Kay had no interaction with Tylee.
3:35 p.m. Kay came out at the beginning of February 2019. “There was a huge problem with their relationship,” she says. Nobody would tell Charles where Lori was. Charles was trying to find his wife.
3:34 p.m. In 2019, Kay started to see her brother more. “Charles was absolutely concerned for his safety. Lori had sent me a text on a Thursday that she and Charles were fighting because of some stuff she came up. She and JJ and Tylee were at a hotel because she didn’t want to have any fighting.” Kay flew out to be with Charles to help him and JJ.
3:33 p.m. Kay said in 2018, Charles was unsettled. “We knew something was going on, but he would never say. He talked to us when he was ready.”
3:32 p.m. Charles and JJ visited Kay in 2018 and they all went to Las Vegas at Thanksgiving in 2018. Lori did not come. Kay thought it was odd that Lori wasn’t there. “He just wouldn’t share what all was going on,” Kay says. “Then when he finally did, he unloaded it all.”
3:31 p.m. Kay says when she and Lori were together, it’s like they didn’t miss a minute. She’s very friendly and easy to talk to. “We got along rather well and I loved her.”
3:30 p.m. Treena asks Kay about her relationship with Lori. Kay says because of her job, she was always on the phone so she hated to talk to people on the phone. Kay and Lori would text and Charles would keep Kay up to date.
3:29 p.m. Lori and Charles met in Texas, Kay says. Treena asks about Charles and JJ visiting in 2018-2019. “In March 2018, did you have a member of your family pass away?” Kay says yes, Charles came to the funeral but Lori did not. Kay says her husband felt like something was going on with Lori and when she didn’t show up for the funeral, “It appalled me that she wouldn’t even come to something like that with her husband.”
3:28 p.m. Kay and her family did not grow up LDS. Charles converted to LDS during his marriage to Lori.
3:27 p.m. Charles was a left-handed pitcher and a left-handed batter. He was always staying in shape – bike riding, hiking, gym, “he was very active.”
3:26 p.m. Charles was drafted into the early 70s into the Houston Astros minor league team. Kay says she was raised with brothers who played baseball. Charles got to college with a baseball scholarship.
3:25 p.m. Kay says Charles was very meticulous and paid attention to detail. Lori helped Charles with his job but Kay doesn’t know what Lori did.
3:24 p.m. Charles was a financial planner who sold annuities. He had his own business. His job required him to travel. “He would be gone 3-4 days a week on average.”
3:23 p.m. Kay says Charles was “the best dad.” Always doting on JJ. “If Charles was working out of town, Lori had him all by herself so when Charles came back to town, JJ was his to take care of. 100%.”
3:21 p.m. Charles and Lori adopted JJ in July 2014. JJ was two. He was autistic and born ten weeks premature. He took a little extra care, Treena asks. “He did. Absolutely.” In July 2019, he was seven.
3:20 p.m. In July 2019, Colby, Cole and Zac were all adults. Tylee and JJ were minors. Treena asks if Charles and Lori had any kids together. She says they adopted her grandson, JJ.
3:18 p.m. Kay says she was close to Charles. She did not go to Lori and Charles’ wedding in 2006. They were married in Las Vegas. In March 2006, there was a family gathering near Austin to celebrate the wedding.
3:17 p.m. Kay is Charles Vallow’s sister. She lives in Lake Charles, Louisiana. There are six kids in their family. Charles was #3. The kids are Kerry, Susan, Charles, Gerry, Kay and Bobby.
3:15 p.m. We are back in the courtroom. Next witness is Kay Woodcock.
2:57 p.m. Lori asked if the DNA collected was ever tested. Francisco is unsure. She says she swabbed the DNA and sent it to a lab. Lori has no further questions. There is no re-direct and jury has no questions. Recess now for 15 minutes.
2:56 p.m. Francisco was not asked to compare the print to Tylee Ryan. This ended her processing and evaluating of the bat. Treena has no further questions. Lori will now cross-examine.
2:55 p.m. Same results on the second print – inconclusive to Charles Vallow due to lack of detail in the print.
2:54 p.m. Francisco went through the process and during the comparison and evaluation phase, she determined the print was inconclusive to Charles Vallow. There wasn’t enough in the print to get any solid info.
2:53 p.m. When the prints are of no value, they don’t compare them to an individual because they can not be identified. Francisco was requested to compare the two impressions on the bat to Charles Vallow to see if she could determine if they did not originate with Charles Vallow.
2:52 p.m. Both impressions for NVID – No Value for Identifications. They lacked sufficient clarity or uniqueness to identify who the prints belonged to. She would not be able to identify who made the impressions. She was first asked to compare the two impressions to three individuals – Charles Vallow, Lori Vallow and Alexander Cox.
2:50 p.m. The second print was from the letter G. “They appeared to be fingerprints. The first image indicated to me it was a fingerprint – the size of it.”
2:49 p.m. Francisco used superglue fuming and recovered two impressions that she took photos of. The first print was recovered in the W of the RAWLINGS word written on the bat.
2:48 p.m. Francisco needs to refer to her notes to refresh her memory. She says at the visible stage, there were no prints that were able to be visually observed on the grip part of the bat. Treena Kay shows the bat on the screen.
2:48 p.m. Treena Kay asks for the bat. It is taken to Francisco on the witness stand. “The very first thing I did when I opened up the packaging was I swabbed the textured grip for potential DNA. The reason I swabbed it first is because of the texture on that grip, I would not expect to find latent prints on the grip.”
2:42 p.m. Francisco walks through how prints are gathered, tested and analyzed. Did it come from a finger or a palm? The ridge flow of the marks on the print can help determine which area of the palm or finger it came from.
2:34 p.m. A nonporous item is something that water and air cannot pass through it. Different processing techniques are used based on whether the item is porous or nonporous.
2:33 p.m. A print is on a substance until it is disturbed. It could be there forever, or it could be wiped or smudged away. Someone rubbing a smooth object could get rid of a print.
2:31 p.m. Francisco explains where she can find the prints. Some substances are better to collect the prints from, others, like cinder blocks, don’t really keep the prints well.
2:30 p.m. Friction ridge prints are on the palms of our hands and soles of our feet. We often have oils and prints on our hands and feet and you can leave those prints behind.
2:29 p.m. Latent, by definition, is something that is present but not visible. “It’s an impression that is not readily visible. Techniques are needed to help visualize the prints.”
2:28 p.m. Francisco is a latent print anaylst. She has a bachelor’s of science in biochemistry and a master’s of science in forensic science.
2:27 p.m. Francisco is a forensic scientist with Chandler. She has worked there since August 2018. She was previously employed at the Arizona Dept. of Public Safety.
2:26 p.m. Next witness is Marrisa Francisco. She works for the Chandler Police Department.
2:24 p.m. Juror question: If someone was to delete their browser history, can you still get their history? McDonald says on occasion. If it was more recent, that information can be recovered by the software. More recent could be within the past year. Witness is excused.
2:23 p.m. Once McDonald transferred the file, he was done. Treena has no further questions. Lori has no questions. There is at least one question from the jury.
2:21 p.m. The Cellebrite software created a reader file – a file the detectives can open in a program to review the data in a free software platform.
2:19 p.m. The gray key created a single file container with everything in one file. The file was taken and opened up in a Cellebrite Physical Analyzer software. It put everything in a more readable format for detectives.
2:17 p.m. After the phone was powered up, he used a “gray key” device and did a full file system extraction of the iCloud. “It’s the best copy we can make. It copies all the data off the phone for us to examine later.”
2:16 p.m. There was a sim card in the phone. If they receive a phone with low power or the battery is dead, they connect it to a power source to recharge the battery. The phone must be on while they work on it.
2:15 p.m. McDonald turned on the phone and it was in airplane mode. We see the little airplane in the upper right-hand corner of the iPhone. He says this is important, so it can’t be altered by someone off-site.
2:14 p.m. McDonald is now shown photos from the prosecution. Treena asks why he takes photos of the phone. He says it’s to document the phone and how it was packaged or sealed. We now see the phone on the monitors.
2:13 p.m. Treena’s paralegal presents the iPhone to McDonald. This was the phone that was extracted. He began working on it on July 17. He was given a pin to get into the phone – 0000.
2:12 p.m. The original data files are kept in a server so that they have everything in place. The system does not change the phone as the files are being transferred but it might add more data because the phone is on.
2:11 p.m. The Cellebrite system puts all the emails together, all the texts together, all the date/time information together – it puts them all together.
2:10 p.m. When they extract the information, it creates a container file. That’s a database-type file that, without appropriate software, it would be hard to piece together manually.
2:09 p.m. Phone extraction means they are copying the information from the phone to another device. Contact lists, text messages, photos, search history, GPS, location data – it all gets copied.
2:08 p.m. McDonald talks about how they do their job to search cell phones. A warrant is obtained, then photos are taken of the phone or device. Once the photos are taken, he turned the device on – needs to make sure it’s in airplane mode so no changes can be made. McDonald then attaches the phone to the piece of hardware or software to get the information from the phone.
2:07 p.m. McDonald is an expert on cell phone extractions and digital forensics. He is trained on the Cellebrite Forensic Tool, which was mentioned a lot during the Idaho trials.
2:06 p.m. Lori has consistently taken notes on every witness. She has a bottle of water and several papers in front of her.
2:05 p.m. McDonald is currently a criminal justice teacher at a high school in Gilbert. He worked for Chandler Police for around 26 years. He retired in November 2022.
2:03 p.m. Next witness is retired Chandler Police Detective William McDonald.
2:02 p.m. Treena asks about the women from the group that she is still friends with. She asks if she got together with the other women to “make up” a story about Charles being possessed, etc. Sarena says no. Her testimony is done. Treena will now call her next witness.
2:01 p.m. Treena asks if the group said other prayers that weekend. Sarena says yes, they prayed over the food, etc., but the casting prayer felt very different.
2 p.m. The video feed is back up
here.
1:59 p.m. Treena asks about whether being translated is something unusual to her. She asks if there are translated beings in religious books. Sarena says she has read about it but doesn’t know anybody who has been translated.
1:58 p.m. Treena now returns to the lectern for re-direct. She asks if everything Sarena has said is to the best of her knowledge. Sarena says yes. Treena mentions that it’s been six years so does Sarena remember how many calls and text messages. “You didn’t tally them and put it on your nightstand to help remember?” Sarena says no.
1:57 p.m. Lori asks if Sarena has something to offer today in relation to the crime she is charged with. Objection – relevance. Judge sustained. Lori asks Sarena if she saw or heard anything in relation to Lori conspiring with her brother to murder her husband. Sarena says no, she did not. Lori thanks her and walks away.
1:56 p.m. Lori asks what Sarena would have to contribute by meeting with police for 90 minutes about someone she has only met a few times in her life. Treena objects due to speculation. Judge sustains. Lori asks what Sarena told police during the interviews. Treena objects to being overbroad. Judge sustains.
1:55 p.m. Jury is focused on this testimony – looking at Sarena and also watching Lori question her friend. A few are taking notes. One just opened her binder to begin writing.
1:55 p.m. Lori asks how many times Sarena was interviewed by police. Sarena says a couple of times. First time was with Nate Moffatt in spring 2020. Sarena doesn’t remember how long the interview was.
1:53 p.m. Lori asks if it’s fair to say they had a fun weekend. Sarena says that’s true – it was a good weekend. Lori: “And now you’ve changed your mind a little bit.”
1:51 p.m. Lori asks Sarena, “You said something about being uncomfortable that weekend – some of the topics. Why didn’t you just leave if you were so uncomfortable?” Sarena: “I was uncomfortable with some of the topics and I was there with friends and I had flown across the country so it wasn’t easy to leave.” Lori: “But you’re a grown woman. You have your own mind and opinions?” Sarena: “Yes, of course.”
1:50 p.m. “You remember that coming out of my mouth to you specifically?” Lori asks. Sarena says yes, it was very clear to all of them. Lori asks if she was teaching a class. Sarena says no. Lori asks why she would be speaking. “Sometimes we take turns when we speak,” Sarena says.
1:49 p.m. Lori asks if Sarena is still in touch with Melanie Gibb. Sarena says occasionally. Lori: “You said in your testimony earlier that I said I believed I don’t need to repent and you were shocked. What did I say to you exactly?” Sarena says she doesn’t remember verbatim. It was over six years. But something of the effect of not needing to repent.
1:47 p.m. Lori asks Sarena if she is related to Christina now. Sarena says no. “I wondered. I didn’t know,” Lori says. Treena objects – says the defendant is testifying. Judge sustains. Lori asks if Sarena is in contact with Zulema. Lori asks if Sarena is in contact with Kay Woodcock. Sarena doesn’t know who that is.
1:46 p.m. Lori asks how many communications Sarena has had over the past five years with Christina Atwood. “Many,” Sarena responds. “Like how many?” Sarena isn’t sure how to answer that. She says weekly, sometimes daily.
1:45 p.m. Lori asks about the girl’s weekend – what else they did besides one prayer. Sarena says they went out for lunch, they went to the temple, and did service projects. “So we had a typical fun girl’s weekend with five minutes of a prayer,” Lori responds. Sarena doesn’t remember how long the prayer was. Lori asks how long the prayer was. Sarena doesn’t recall.
1:44 p.m. Judge allows the question and Lori proceeds to say, “Is it fair to say, in the Christian belief system, to believe in people being translated?” Sarena says she isn’t qualified for all of Christianity to answer the question about translated people. Lori says, “Ok. Are you a Christian who believes in the Bible?” Sarena says, “I believe in the Bible. Of course.”
1:43 p.m. Lori asks Sarena asks who the 3 Nephites are in the Book of Mormon. Sarena says she doesn’t know off the top of her head. Lori responds, “Ok.” Lori asks Sarena if she knows of John the Revelator and John the Revelator being translated. Treena objects – out of the scope. Lori tells the judge, “I’ve been accused of being out of the scope of the LDS religion when this is exactly in the scope of the LDS religion.”
1:41 p.m. Lori asks if it’s possible someone else said the word zombies. Sarena says it’s possible. Lori asks Sarena what sentence she said to her with the word zombie. Treena objects – asked and answered. Judge overrules and allows the question. Sarena says she doesn’t remember verbatim – it was six years ago.
1:40 p.m. Lori asks Sarena for specifics about when Lori brought up zombies. “You’re saying, under oath, that I said the word zombies at that girls meeting?” Sarena says to the best of her recollection, it was girl’s weekend 2019. Sarena says it was six years ago, she doesn’t remember verbatim.
1:40 p.m. Lori asks how many times they conversed via text. Sarena says she isn’t sure how to answer that – multiple times. “So would it be fair to say that some of the things you remember are from other people and not actually from me to you directly?” Sarena responds perhaps.
1:38 p.m. Lori asks Sarena how many times they met together in person. Sarena believes it was four. Lori asks how many times just Lori and Sarena spoke – just the two of them. Sarena remembers three. Lori asks how many times they communicated on the phone – just an estimate. Sarena says “multiple” times.
1:37 p.m. Lori begins: “Ms. Sharp, did you take an oath when you came in this courtroom today?” Yes. “Did you raise your hand?” Yes I did. “Did you swear to tell truth? The whole truth? nothing but the truth? So help you who?” God. Lori: “So can we agree that this testimony in this court will be held accountable to God?” Treena objects. Judge sustains. Lori argues that the prosecution brought up religion. Judge says he didn’t ask for an argument.
1:36 p.m. Sarena says she was concerned because Lori had just lost her husband and may have sent her a few texts but they didn’t have much contact after that. Treena has no further questions. Lori will now question Sarena.
1:35 p.m. Sarena went to the house and says “multiple” women were there. Melanie Gibb was there and so were some other ladies. This was end of July/beginning of August 2019. Treena asked about Lori’s demeanor. Sarena said Lori was stoic – she didn’t see any mourning or crying. Sarena never saw Lori again.
1:33 p.m. After Charles died, Sarena talks about a girl’s lunch that Zulema organized. Lori came to lunch with her brother Alex. During that lunch, Lori invited the women over to her house to talk. “She had just lost her husband. I don’t know if I was included by accident, but I did go over to her house that night. She had just lost her husband. That’s a big deal.”
1:32 p.m. Back in the courtroom. Treena Kay continues her questioning of Sarena Sharp.
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