Epstein, Maxwell et al: exposed in child sex trafficking

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Do we have a Jefferey Epstein thread?

 
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Whatever did or didn't happen to Epstein has nothing to do with her charges nor sentencing and that won't apply nor should it. It isn't even apples to oranges, it is comparing an ocean to an almond. They just do not connect or relate. Her actions are her actions, not HIS. State. Federal. Etc.

Not arguing, it's just that I guess it hasn't been explained well enough in this thread if you still think that. I'm not sure how the UK system is but here what happened with Epstein is due to it was a Florida case. Our states have some separate powers and autonomies and while the federal government can step in if needed in some areas of law, life and politics, by and large states run many of their own systems without interference. Florida gave Epstein this deal, not the US. Maxwell was tried by the US..

A good example is your info that over there you have "turning Queen's evidence". Here it is not called turning "President's or Country's evidence" is it? It is state. It may seem like semantics but our systems are very different I"m guessing and maybe that's part of the confusion.
She was charged with conspiracy so her charges are related to his IMO. The two victims were both from Florida. The transporting to other states is what made it federal offences.
Ok. I understand now.

Per document 574 the Government isn't proposing a plea. They are willing to forgo the other charges so the witnesses do not have to testify again.

*That's how I understood it.

Here's the statement from document 574;

In the event the defendant’s post-trial motions are denied, the Government is prepared to dismiss the severed perjury counts at the time of sentencing, in light of the victims’ significant interests in bringing closure to this matter and avoiding the trauma of testifying again.
They are dropping the perjury charges voluntarily then. So I agree, it's not a plea deal.
 
She was charged with conspiracy so her charges are related to his IMO. The two victims were both from Florida. The transporting to other states is what made it federal offences.

They are dropping the perjury charges voluntarily then. So I agree, it's not a plea deal.
She's not out of options though. Her legal team are highly regarded in their profession & will continue to push for a retrial.

I guess Judge Nathan won't be moving on to her new job until she finishes this so I'm curious as to how quickly she'll make a decision.
 
By turning states evidence I think they mean federal not individual states but am not familiar with the whole US procedure. With Maxwell, if she gets the retrial then she stands a good chance of negotiating a plea deal as the victims may not want to testify all over again.
I just posted much the same. I think our systems must be very different. State courts try almost everything so I'm sure it is state's evidence here but some things come under federal law or can bring in federal law.

Generally though a crime that takes place in one state has to be tried in THAT state here. These people, with evidence, could probably have had multiple trials in Florida, in New York, in New Mexico. Each for different acts/crimes at different times, etc. Each state decides on whether to charge or if here is enough evidence for the things that happened in their state. One state might and another might not or evidence may not exist so they choose not to, individually. If I have explained that well, I think it should tell you that both Maxwell and Epstein separately are lucky they did not have something like 5 trials in different states for individual acts by each in each state and then federally as well.

Now either on top of that or instead of that (either can happen), we have the federal government and law. Much is individual state law in cases and one state to another can be different in their laws and then there is if an individual broke federal law. Federal law can come in for instance if a criminal crossed state lines while committing their crime(s) or if there is something like a big drug syndicate with people placed in various states who are part of that syndicate, and transport or a trafficking enterprise. These are some examples of what federal law would apply to. It generally is certain crimes that invoke federal prosecution, most crimes I would say are almost always tried in each individual state.

So if all that makes sense to you, and I may have confused you further, not sure I am explaining well, then again Epstein's deal was due to Florida's decisions. Florida is a state. I can only guess he had the right connections and knew the right people in power in Florida. He was to be tried there for things or acts committed in Florida only though. Maxwell was not tried in Florida. She was tried federally. Even now if Florida or NY thinks they have something on Maxwell they can prove, either state could charge her too and try her (if not too late with statute of limitations). The point is each state is different and crimes can intersect and sometimes it may seem they are tried for the same crime twice, maybe in state and then federal court, etc., but it is under each system's laws.

One case does not take the place of another. And again what he got away with or what deal he made in Florida or the fact he died before the other trial has nothing to do with what happens to her or should happen to her in sentencing, etc. Different courts, different defendants, separate cases and more.

Purely hypothetical examples:

Epstein is raping a minor in a motorhome as another drives it. They are in the State of Texas let's say. This is chargeable in Texas. Now in the course of that single ongoing act the motorhome crosses into Oklahoma. It is now also chargeable in Oklahoma as well. On top of this, now federal law can be invoked as well because they crossed state lines. Each of these are up to each justice system as to whether to charge and more, all have the right.

NOW, let's say Maxwell was the driver and knew what was going on. Let's say she procured the girl as well. Now you have another defendant chargeable but her charges are likely going to be different than his but they occurred in the same states, etc.

NOW, let's say that they are both charged in Texas and the worst one, the rapist, gets a sweet deal but they put Maxwell through the wringer and charge her with more even than him. THEN you have a bit of an argument or this is unfair (even though defendants each make their own deals so it still could be argued there was a reason like maybe he flipped on someone). However this is not the case here. In this real case, you don't really have an argument. Florida gave him the sweet deal. There are different charges, different dates and Maxwell is in federal court, it's not like Florida treated her differently, she was never tried in Florida for anything at all. The feds don't have to give her any deal Florida gave Epstein, that's Florida, that's different and that was him. The feds in fact may abhor the deal Florida gave Epstein but that wasn't and isn't up to them.

I'm sorry to be so long and go on, I just think you really are interested in how it works here and don't understand why he got off, etc. so easy and I'm trying to explain how it works. Believe me, most of us I believe HATE that Epstein didn't get the justice he deserved, it outrages me. He had to have connections in Florida in my opinion and it wouldn't be surprising at all, or just as likely he had something bad on someone high up in Florida. However, I still think she deserves her justice. He would have faced federal charges too I think is what you need to realize. And probably wasn't going to get off so light and would have received far more time than she is facing, most likely life. He committed suicide and that's what stopped that, not because he got "off" easy in that case.

Now you may not feel they had the evidence or the case was proven but that's besides the point here. They felt they had enough to charge her, they put on their case and the jury found her guilty. Nothing wrong was done to her by the system and it has nothing to do with whether he didn't face his justice. He was going to face his and took the easy way out, he was not "released" by the system.

I probably confused you worse but hope I helped. Also I may have some things incorrect, I'm no expert in any way, but most of what I state are just things I feel I have learned or understand somewhat through years of following cases.
 
Does anyone know Olney's age? I googled for it and that's where I came up with the above article but it didn't show his age.

What I'm wondering is, in looking at his Linked In, what was he doing prior to 2002? How did he come to be hired for Prince Andrew? No experience? Was he just 18 or was he older and where was he working prior? Curious is all.
His LinkedIn shows more than I posted. He was born in August '71 so he would have been 31 when he began working for Prince Andrew. He did a Geography Degree at Brunell Uni graduating in '92. The intervening 10 years is not recorded on there, but as I said he would have been an armed protection officer so he would have got that experience in the Army or Police, my guess the Army as he was a Commander at Sandhurst later on.
 
The problem with this is Virginia's case against Andrew is a civil case not criminal. Defendant's who are offered a plea agreement do this prior to the case being presented in court. The deal Epstein got was arranged by Dershowitz and one we're never likely to see again.
Maybe Maxwell should hire Dershowitz ?
 
His LinkedIn shows more than I posted. He was born in August '71 so he would have been 31 when he began working for Prince Andrew. He did a Geography Degree at Brunell Uni graduating in '92. The intervening 10 years is not recorded on there, but as I said he would have been an armed protection officer so he would have got that experience in the Army or Police, my guess the Army as he was a Commander at Sandhurst later on.
That would make a lot more sense.
 
I just posted much the same. I think our systems must be very different. State courts try almost everything so I'm sure it is state's evidence here but some things come under federal law or can bring in federal law.

Generally though a crime that takes place in one state has to be tried in THAT state here. These people, with evidence, could probably have had multiple trials in Florida, in New York, in New Mexico. Each for different acts/crimes at different times, etc. Each state decides on whether to charge or if here is enough evidence for the things that happened in their state. One state might and another might not or evidence may not exist so they choose not to, individually. If I have explained that well, I think it should tell you that both Maxwell and Epstein separately are lucky they did not have something like 5 trials in different states for individual acts by each in each state and then federally as well.

Now either on top of that or instead of that (either can happen), we have the federal government and law. Much is individual state law in cases and one state to another can be different in their laws and then there is if an individual broke federal law. Federal law can come in for instance if a criminal crossed state lines while committing their crime(s) or if there is something like a big drug syndicate with people placed in various states who are part of that syndicate, and transport or a trafficking enterprise. These are some examples of what federal law would apply to. It generally is certain crimes that invoke federal prosecution, most crimes I would say are almost always tried in each individual state.

So if all that makes sense to you, and I may have confused you further, not sure I am explaining well, then again Epstein's deal was due to Florida's decisions. Florida is a state. I can only guess he had the right connections and knew the right people in power in Florida. He was to be tried there for things or acts committed in Florida only though. Maxwell was not tried in Florida. She was tried federally. Even now if Florida or NY thinks they have something on Maxwell they can prove, either state could charge her too and try her (if not too late with statute of limitations). The point is each state is different and crimes can intersect and sometimes it may seem they are tried for the same crime twice, maybe in state and then federal court, etc., but it is under each system's laws.

One case does not take the place of another. And again what he got away with or what deal he made in Florida or the fact he died before the other trial has nothing to do with what happens to her or should happen to her in sentencing, etc. Different courts, different defendants, separate cases and more.

Purely hypothetical examples:

Epstein is raping a minor in a motorhome as another drives it. They are in the State of Texas let's say. This is chargeable in Texas. Now in the course of that single ongoing act the motorhome crosses into Oklahoma. It is now also chargeable in Oklahoma as well. On top of this, now federal law can be invoked as well because they crossed state lines. Each of these are up to each justice system as to whether to charge and more, all have the right.

NOW, let's say Maxwell was the driver and knew what was going on. Let's say she procured the girl as well. Now you have another defendant chargeable but her charges are likely going to be different than his but they occurred in the same states, etc.

NOW, let's say that they are both charged in Texas and the worst one, the rapist, gets a sweet deal but they put Maxwell through the wringer and charge her with more even than him. THEN you have a bit of an argument or this is unfair (even though defendants each make their own deals so it still could be argued there was a reason like maybe he flipped on someone). However this is not the case here. In this real case, you don't really have an argument. Florida gave him the sweet deal. There are different charges, different dates and Maxwell is in federal court, it's not like Florida treated her differently, she was never tried in Florida for anything at all. The feds don't have to give her any deal Florida gave Epstein, that's Florida, that's different and that was him. The feds in fact may abhor the deal Florida gave Epstein but that wasn't and isn't up to them.

I'm sorry to be so long and go on, I just think you really are interested in how it works here and don't understand why he got off, etc. so easy and I'm trying to explain how it works. Believe me, most of us I believe HATE that Epstein didn't get the justice he deserved, it outrages me. He had to have connections in Florida in my opinion and it wouldn't be surprising at all, or just as likely he had something bad on someone high up in Florida. However, I still think she deserves her justice. He would have faced federal charges too I think is what you need to realize. And probably wasn't going to get off so light and would have received far more time than she is facing, most likely life. He committed suicide and that's what stopped that, not because he got "off" easy in that case.

Now you may not feel they had the evidence or the case was proven but that's besides the point here. They felt they had enough to charge her, they put on their case and the jury found her guilty. Nothing wrong was done to her by the system and it has nothing to do with whether he didn't face his justice. He was going to face his and took the easy way out, he was not "released" by the system.

I probably confused you worse but hope I helped. Also I may have some things incorrect, I'm no expert in any way, but most of what I state are just things I feel I have learned or understand somewhat through years of following cases.
No I vaguely follow what makes a federal case versus a state case. Eg interstate commerce - so the transporting across state lines and sending lingerie via FedEx make them federal charges. Why did the feds get involved with Epstein and do all the searches at the time though? Some of the evidence in Maxwell's trial had been seized in those Florida searches. Appreciate your explanations here thanks.
 
I thought about that earlier however it would be a conflict of interest.
How would it be a conflict now that Epstein is dead? Lawyers can represent multiple clients anyway.

Just discovered that Dershowitz is also suing Netflix "Filthy Rich". Here's the docket link. (Netflix have ton of lawsuits against them.)

 
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How would it be a conflict now that Epstein is dead? Lawyers can represent multiple clients anyway.

Just discovered that Dershowitz is also suing Netflix "Filthy Rich". Here's the docket link. (Netflix have ton of lawsuits against them.)


Mr. Dershowitz has a vested interest in the outcome of litigation and he cannot be impartial to the facts of his client because he has been named as a defendant in the ongoing series of events perpetuated by his now deceased client. It would be unethical as well because he would have access to undisclosed evidence that he could potentially utilize for his own personal gain.
 

Mr. Dershowitz has a vested interest in the outcome of litigation and he cannot be impartial to the facts of his client because he has been named as a defendant in the ongoing series of events perpetuated by his now deceased client. It would be unethical as well because he would have access to undisclosed evidence that he could potentially utilize for his own personal gain.
He is suing Guiffre isn't he? In what case is he a defendant? I am thinking of the lawyer Boies representing many clients. There was one that Boies had to come off for the reason you are stating - I think it is the Guiffre v Dersh or the Prince Andrew case. It is certainly very complicated but I don't think he is representing anyone in the Epstein circle ATM anyway.
Also, just found out he is also suing CNN for defamation for $300m dating back to 2020. So he probably already has his hands full anyway suing CNN, Netflix and Guiffre.

 
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I just had a thought about what we were all doing in the 2000's. And of course in 2001 we had the WTC, then war in Iraq and Afghanistan then the 2008 financial crash. So Epstein and his hedge fund buddies appear to have just continued as normal while all the rest of us had the Middle East wars and loss of value on our properties with many losing their homes. It is therefore not surprising to me that Roberts did not decide to come back to the US for many years. In 2008, Epstein was prosecuted in Florida, but that only seemed to stop him temporarily. In 2009, Roberts sued Epstein. So that was an unusual decade.
 
Haven't read this yet.


I read this & in part I agree. The media does rush to push the salacious headlines without giving the accused the opportunity to defend themselves in a court of law. The other part of the article was more opinion questioning why we would believe a serial liar. It does set the groundwork for an ethical debate that is long overdue.
 
Article discussing interview of Lady Victoria Hervey, an ex of Prince Andrew. There is a new ITV program out called Ghislaine, The Prince and the Paedophile. Have not seen it yet.

 
Today is the deadline for the defence to request a retrial. I have not seen any reports of that request going in so far.
 
Another article about the sealed motion.
This indicates the questionaire is in the motion so perhaps that is the reason for the sealing. Also it says the motion contains all known comments by the juror. I am also wondering if it includes the juror's sex abuse details as a child, which could be another reason for sealing. Prosecution response is due by Feb 2nd.

 
Another article about the sealed motion.
This indicates the questionaire is in the motion so perhaps that is the reason for the sealing. Also it says the motion contains all known comments by the juror. I am also wondering if it includes the juror's sex abuse details as a child, which could be another reason for sealing. Prosecution response is due by Feb 2nd.

Since the prosecution has until Feb 2nd to respond, I wonder how long we'll have to wait after that for Judge Nathan's ruling.
 

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