JOSHUA "JJ" VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN, TAMMY DAYBELL, & CHARLES VALLOW: State of Idaho/Arizona vs. Lori & Chad Daybell *GUILTY*

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Police seem to be no closer to finding 7-year-old Joshua “JJ” Vallow and 17-year-old Tylee Ryan than they were when this story began months ago.

Since that time, the story has gained international attention as it’s taken twists and turns involving a purported cult, dead spouses, delusions of divinity and preparing for the end of the world. Despite all the angles, and the ever-growing number of people related to the case, the facts remain essentially the same as when it was first announced.

The two children remain missing and the parents, Lori (Vallow) Daybell, and her new husband, Chad Daybell, refuse to disclose their whereabouts to police. Both have been named persons of interest in the disappearance of the children. Law enforcement is also investigating the deaths of the Daybells’ previous respective spouses, Charles Vallow and Tammy Daybell, though neither Chad nor Lori have been named suspects in those cases.

Written timeline of events
  • April 3, 2018 - Tylee Ryan's father, Joseph Ryan, dies. Death ruled heart attack.
  • December 2018 - Chad Daybell & Lori Vallow make first appearance on Preparing a People podcast.
  • February 2019 - Charles Vallow files for divorce from Lori, claiming she viewed herself as a god preparing for the second coming, and she would kill him if he got in her way.
  • February - April 2019 - Lori disappears for nearly two months, leaving her children with others.
  • June 2019 - Lori's niece demands a divorce from her husband, who says she shares similar beliefs to her aunt.
  • July 11, 2019 - Charles Vallow shot and killed by Lori's brother Alex Cox. Shooting initially ruled self-defense.
  • August 2019 - Lori moves to Rexburg, Idaho with kids
  • September 3, 2019 - Joshua "JJ" Vallow enrolled in school
  • September 23, 2019 - JJ last attended school
  • September 24, 2019 - Lori unenrolls JJ from school, saying she would be homeschooling him.
  • September 2019 - Tylee also seen in September, but it's unclear when and where (she had graduated early)
  • October 2, 2019 - Lori's niece's ex-husband was shot at, missing his head by inches. Shooter was driving a vehicle registered to Charles Vallow.
  • October 9, 2019 - Tammy Daybell, Chad's wife, called 911 and said a masked man shot at her with a paintball gun.
  • October 19, 2019 - Tammy Daybell dies, death is ruled natural
  • October 25, 2019 - Tylee, or someone using her phone, texts a friend
  • Late October / Early November 2019 - Chad Daybell & Lori Vallow get married
  • November 26, 2019 - Welfare check requested for JJ at the request of extended family - police are told he is in Arizona with family, but he is not
  • November 27, 2019 - Police return to serve a search warrant, finding the Daybell's gone
  • December 12, 2019 - Lori's brother, who had shot her ex-husband, dies mysteriously in Arizona
  • December 20, 2019 - Search for JJ and Tylee goes public
  • December 30, 2019 - LE says Lori knows where her children are but will not cooperate
  • January 25, 2020 - Chad & Lori are located in Hawaii, served with a notice that she must produce the children within 5 days
  • January 30, 2020 - Lori fails to produce JJ and Tylee

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edited by staff to add new media link
 
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Yeah but she sent Tylee back in for her purse. I always did know of the flip flop Walgreen stop but I never realized they did not have shoes ON. And the entire hour they were doing errands and running JJ to school there was contact with Alex etc. and Alex never called 911 for like an hour. Not sure what the real plan was or if it went awry or anything but this was their first IF they didn't kill Joe... And I to this day can't get over Chandler just letting them go and how they could consider this self defense with even their given story, it clearly was not. I almost think her running around with Charles' phone was to make it look as if he took JJ to school, to breakfast, etc. which was why he was there....I keep thinking this one was Gilbert but it wasn't it was Chandler AZ.

Gotta go. Give me some posts today to read while I am on break lol. Not that sure I will get time and I only get two breaks today instead of three. BITES.
I wonder if they needed to get their flip-flops purchased because she was having a party that night? I’m serious! That is how coldhearted these people are. It’s amazingly horrifying.
 
I don't think so but you can definitely get life for it.
I had to look it up because I was that curious. Looks like you can!

(1) Except as provided in section 19-2515A, Idaho Code, a person convicted of murder in the first degree shall be liable for the imposition of the penalty of death if such person killed, intended a killing, or acted with reckless indifference to human life, irrespective of whether such person directly committed the acts that caused death.
 
Can’t you get the death penalty for being in a conspiracy? He obviously conspired to kill JJ and Tylee.
Do we actually know that he conspired to kill them? Maybe he conspired to hide the remains on his property. I haven't actually seen he conspired to murder them as yet, but may have missed it. Is rating people dark and zombie enough to be a conspiracy? If so, why did the church allow it? He was a Chief executive in his parish right? Isn't that like an assistant to a Bishop?
 
Thursday 9th - morning update.

LIVE UPDATES FROM THE CHAD DAYBELL TRIAL​

Warning some graphic descriptions​



CLICK HERE TO WATCH THE TRIAL LIVE
Please excuse the typos. These are live updates from the courtroom.

11:51 a.m. We will take lunch and be back at 12:45 p.m.

11:49 a.m. On Sept. 9, 2019, a text message from Chad’s phone caught Dean’s attention. Wood moves to admit an exhibit and the projector has a technical issue. Court staff working to fix the problem.

11:46 a.m. All outgoing communication on the device ended on the evening of Oct. 18. 2019 – the day before Tammy was found dead.

11:45 a.m. The BlueRay discs contained data from a cell phone belonging to Tammy Daybell. There were incoming messages to Tammy and outgoing messages from Tammy. There were group messages involving members of the Daybell family including Tammy.

11:41 a.m. Dean used a BlueRay player to review the two discs. He explains how he was able to open and view the files using Cellebrite software.

11:40 a.m. The FBI received 600-800 tips – many of which had photos and videos. Dean was asked to review devices that were seized from Daybell’s home in January 2020. He completed his review in May 2020. He was also asked to review the contents of two BlueRay discs containing data extracted from storage devices seized from Chad’s property on Jan. 3, 2020.

11:37 a.m. Dean began working with the Daybell case in late March 2020. His initial assignment was to review tips submitted by members of the public in response to a news release issued by the FBI and Rexburg Police on March 5, 2020 regarding Tylee and JJ. This was the story we did that day.

11:35 a.m. Dean has worked for the FBI for eight years. He is currently assigned to the Salt Lake City field office. His main job is to analyze information and make assessments regarding specific threats.

11:26 a.m. Next witness is FBI Intelligence Analyst Benjamin Dean. Rob Wood will question him but needs to run and grab his questions.

11:23 a.m. Batey will now cross examine. Batey asks about Chad not saying anything during encounters with police. “He didn’t say, ‘What’s this about?'” Nesbitt says he didn’t say anything. Batey asks a few clarifying questions and is finished. Nesbitt is released from subpoena.

11:22 a.m. The currency was found in the backpack along with the MacBook Pro and HP laptop. A wallet with four credit cards belonging to Chad Daybell was also found in the backpack. A death certificate and marriage license was also located in the bag. Prior has no further questions.

11:20 a.m. Prior asks about the handbag and what was found inside. The bag was found in the rear passenger seat behind where Chad was sitting. Prior asks who owned the black backpack. Nesbitt doesn’t know. Prior asks if Lori was trying to flee when they pulled her over. Nesbitt says no – Lori and Chad were completely cooperative and did not try to flee.

11:18 a.m. Chad was sitting in the front passenger seat. Prior asks if anything of evidentiary interest was found on Chad’s side of the car. Nesbitt says no. Prior asks about a book found in the car. He asks what faith the book comes from. Nesbitt doesn’t know.

11:17 a.m. Prior asks if Chad made any comments when the papers were served at the pool. Nesbitt says no. He looked over at the papers that were served to Lori. Prior asks if it was a custody order for the kids to be returned back to Idaho. Nesbitt says yes. Prior asks about the credit card found on the driver’s side of the car. Lori was driving.

11:15 a.m. Nesbitt was present when the condo was searched on Jan. 26, 2020. Around three items were taken including rubber wedding bands. There was no sign that children lived there or had ever been there. Batey has no further questions.

11:14 a.m. We now see a photo showing an envelope full of cash that was found in the backpack. There was $10,500 in the envelope.

11:12 a.m. There is a page that has several blue sticky notes attached to it. Nesbitt says he doesn’t know what any of it means. There was also a MacBook Pro and an HP laptop in the bag.

11:10 a.m. The next photo is JJ’s original birth certificate from Louisiana. Now we see a Blue Sky Property Management document for Lori’s Rexburg apartment. The patriarchal blessing Chad gave to Alex on Nov. 24, 2019 was also found in the bag. The next photo is a black Jansport backpack.

11:08 a.m. Social Security cards belonging to JJ and Tylee were also found along with a few birth certificates including Tylee’s. There is also a death certificate from the state of Arizona but it’s hard for him to read the tiny print to say who it is.

11:06 a.m. We see a photo of an iPad that says “JJ” written in red on the iPad cover. The next photo is Charles Vallow’s death certificate and there were 17 total copies. A real estate paper for the condo Chad and Lori were renting was also in the handbag.

11:04 a.m. Batey shows more photos of the vehicle interior. We see the bikes and backpack. There is also a handbag. Inside the handbag is a Visions of Glory book, two iPads, a manila envelope and a folder.

11:02 a.m. Police found Tylee Ryan’s debit card in Lori’s purse. Photos of the card are shown on the screen. A cell phone was also found in the side pocket of Lori’s purse. The phone and other items were shipped to the Rexburg Police Department. The next photo shows the rear view of the SUV. Two adult bikes were found in the cargo area of the car.

10:59 a.m. The search of the vehicle took place two days after Chad and Lori were served the warrant. The firs photo shows the front of the rental vehicle that was seized. The second photo shows inside the SUV from the front door driver side. Lori’s purse is on the seat. The next photo is a close-up of the seat.

10:56 a.m. Batey shows the video. On Jan. 26, police obtained a search warrant for their condo and vehicle. They served it on Chad and Lori. They cooperated with police and a search of the vehicle was performed. Photos were taken of the SUV. Batey moves to admit the pictures as evidence.

10:53 a.m. Nesbitt served Chad and Lori papers at 2:39 p.m. in the swimming pool area of the condo where they were staying. Here is the body camera footage that was recorded:




10:51 a.m. Nesbitt was a detective in 2020 assigned to the major crimes unit. Nesbitt and his team was assisting Rexburg police in serving a legal document to Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell on Jan 25, 2020. The document ordered Lori to bring JJ and Tylee to the Dept. of Health in Rexburg.

10:49 a.m. Next witness is Detective Colin Nesbitt. He works for the Kauai Police Department. Ingrid Batey is questioning him.

10:48 a.m. Wood has no further questions. Prior says he wants some follow up. Wood says he didn’t go anywhere Prior did not. Judge agrees and Prior isn’t allowed to ask anything more. Dace remains under subpoena.

10:46 a.m. Wood asks what consumptive testing is. Dace says in order to do a DNA consumptive test, you would need to use the entire sample and it would be destroyed. Wood asks if she has ever been on a case where she has tested every single possible DNA sample. She says no – not in a large case. They test to answer questions and do their best not to overly consume evidence just to test more of the same thing.

10:46 a.m. Prior has no further questions. Wood will now re-direct.

10:44 a.m. Prior asks the date and time the DNA was put on the tools. She says she can not. She can’t ascertain when the DNA was on there. She says there was no DNA associated to Chad Daybell.

10:43 a.m. Prior says he wants to ask about soil and DNA. Dace smiles and he says, “Do you know where I’m going?” She says no. He says, “That’s why you’re smiling.”

10:40 a.m. Dace says the police department requested her department do the testing. Dace was under guidelines not to consume evidence during testing so some stuff was not tested. The handles of the tools were not tested for DNA or latent prints.

10:37 a.m. The first set of hairs was tested in June 2020. The second set was tested in Dec. 2022. Dace says for the type of DNA testing she does, you need a root present. A latent print of JJ Vallow’s hand was found on tape.

10:35 a.m. Back in the courtroom. Prior continues to question Dace about the hair collection. There were 15 total collection of hairs and each collection had one or more fibers inside. Dace is not in a position to talk about who all the hair belonged to. The Bode test hair was linked to Lori Vallow.

10:05 a.m. Morning break. Back in around 20 minutes.

10:03 a.m. Dace says the majority of the hairs were collected prior to latent print processing. When she went back and swabbed the unidentifiable prints on the tape, she found more hair.

10:01 a.m. Prior asks about the investigation of the plastic and the tape. Prior asks whose DNA was found on the tape. She says JJ Vallow’s. That was the only DNA sample she obtained. The hair samples came from the adhesive side of the tape on the plastic. Dace says she collected “a lot” of hair samples.

9:59 a.m. Prior shows the photo from earlier that shows the same shovel. He asks if she removes things from the tools. Dace says she swabs and collects items from the handles and other parts of the tools.

9:55 a.m. Prior shows a photo of the tools in Chad’s shed. Dace recognizes them. Another photo is shown with the tools lying on the ground. She said some of them appear to be the tools she received. Prior zooms into a long shovel and asks Dace to closely look at it. She believes it is one of the tools she received. He points out an off-white substance on the handle.

9:54 a.m. Prior asks if there was DNA on the necklace found on the property. She found some possible material that she could have run for DNA but it was consumptive.

9:50 a.m. All the tools were obtained by the lab on July 30, 2020. JJ and Tylee were buried in September 2019 – ten months earlier. Prior asks if we know who had contact with the tools in the ten months. Dace says we don’t. Dace says none of the stains or materials tested had Chad’s DNA on it. The handles of the tools were not swabbed for DNA. Dace says if they had been at the property for years, you would expect to find the owner’s DNA on it.

9:49 a.m. Prior says if he sets down his pen, he could leave DNA on it by sweat, skin cells, saliva, etc. Dace says yes. She found potential blood on nine of the ten tools. The remaining eight tools had no blood or DNA.

9:47 a.m. Dace was unable to test all the blood because the spots were very small and would have been consumed. Prior asks how she collects DNA. Dace says there are different ways to test – blood, semen, saliva, sweat, skin cells, in gloves, on clothing, etc.

9:45 a.m. Prior asks Dace how many tools were provided to her. There were 18. She tested all of them. Prior asks how many tools tested positive for blood. She needs to review her notes and responds that out of the first 10 tools she looked at, nine were positive for blood.

9:40 a.m. Wood has no further questions. Prior will now cross examine.

9:35 a.m. The report says DNA profiles were provided for Tylee Ryan, Lori Vallow and Melanie Gibb. The partial DNA profile on hair obtained from tape on the black bags matched Lori Vallow. Probability it was Lori is 1 in 71 billion. Wood asks for a brief sidebar.

9:33 a.m. Some of the hairs collected were sent to private labs including Bode Technology in Virginia. Wood moves to admit a report from Bode Technology.

9:31 a.m. Hairs and fibers were collected. Wood shows an image showing three yellow sticky notes. Each one of the sticky notes contain hairs or fiber that were collected. These hairs were collected from tape and plastic wrapped around JJ. Several hairs were tested for DNA. No profiles were able to be generated.

9:29 a.m. The two spots on the pickaxe handle tested positive for blood. Dace performed DNA testing on the blood. She was able to obtain a profile. The profile matched Tylee Ryan – 604 octillion times that it was her versus an unrelated, randomly selected person.

9:25 a.m. Wood shows a photo of dark material that was removed from the eye of the pickaxe. Wood shows a photo of the largest piece of material that Dace found. She ran part of it for DNA. She obtained a partial DNA profile on the sample. That’s common on some samples that are degraded. Heat and fire causes degradation. Dace was still able to do a comparative analysis with the partial profile. She compared the profile against the known reference samples – JJ Vallow, Tylee Ryan, Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell. Tylee Ryan was a possible contributor to the possible DNA profile. 159 trillion times that it was her versus a random person from the general population.

9:23 a.m. Wood shows a photo of the pickaxe on the screen and a close-up of the pickaxe blade area. Dace found material she could run for DNA. Wood shows a close up photo of stains on the handle on the pickaxe that tested positive for blood.

9:22 a.m. Dace made circles on the handle of the pickaxe and swabbed the head of the tool. “There did appear to be some possible burn marks in the item as well in addition to the burn material that was in the eye,” Dace says. There was also two stains on the pickaxe that she ran for DNA.

9:21 a.m. Dace leaves the stand again and goes to table to retrieve the pickaxe. There was blood on the axe and it was dirty. She removed the dirt and found ashes and human remains embedded in the eye of the pickaxe. She collected, photographed and ran the samples for DNA.

9:18 a.m. Wood shows another photo. Dace says a green substance was found on part of the shovel. She was able to obtain a DNA profile on the spot. The DNA profile matched Tylee Ryan – 604 octillion — that’s 27 zeros — that the DNA is hers.

9:16 a.m. The next picture shows that Dace took photos of possible DNA with a stereoscope – a special type of microscope.

9:14 a.m. Dace returns to the witness stand and a picture of the shovel is shown on the screen. She confirms it’s the same shovel that is on the table. Another photo shows a close up of the substance that was on the back lip of the shovel.

9:12 a.m. Dace takes a handheld microphone and approaches the table wearing black rubber gloves. Wood refers to a shovel on the table. Dace points out it was very dirty and she observed a lip on the back edge of the shovel that she believed was human remains. Dace performed DNA testing on the material.

9:10 a.m. The next picture is a close-up of what was on the right of the shovel. Wood asks for the shovels to be brought out for the jury to see. The bailiff brings the tools to the table in front of jurors.

9:09 a.m. We now see a photo of another shovel. Dace tested it for blood and examined the tool head for blood or human remains. Another photo is material she collected from the shovel. The material on the left was very, very small but there was more on the right that was selected for DNA.

9:07 a.m. The first photo is of a shovel. Dace examined it for blood and swabbed it. She collected some possible human remains from the shovel too. The next picture shows possible charred flesh that Dace collected and photographed. She ran a portion of it for DNA. The next picture is a close-up of what she collected and ran for DNA. She was not able to generate a DNA profile from the material.

9:04 a.m. Wood moves to admit an exhibit showing photos Dace took of the tools along with hairs and fibers on tape.

9:01 a.m. Dace found areas on handles of the shovels with small amounts of blood. On four of the tools, she found matter that could have been human DNA. She photographed the tools and tested them. She collected hairs and fiber if she saw them. Some of the tools were quite dirty so she needed to remove the dirt and ashes.

8:59 a.m. There was blood on all of the tape and plastic. DNA testing was not done as it was presumed to be JJ’s. A lot of the tape had small hairs and skin attached to it. A swab from a knife blade in the Rexburg apartment was negative for blood. There was a swab from the wall with a small amount of blood but DNA analysis was not performed. Dace received 18 tools from a garage barn on Daybell’s property.

8:58 a.m. Dace says her lab received the tape and plastic wrapped around JJ’s body for testing. No DNA testing was done on the bag but testing was done on the tape. “When examining the tape, I was looking for irregular edges that indicated someone may have torn the tape with their teeth and left behind saliva.” Dace also swabbed areas of unidentifiable fingerprints.

8:55 a.m. Dace explains you get half of your DNA from your mom and half from your dad. She explains that their testing shows Lori is Tylee’s biological mom and Dennis is JJ’s biological dad.

8:53 a.m. Wood moves to submit a lab report written by Rylie Nolan, Dace’s supervisor. The first page shows that molars from Tylee were tested, a reference sample from Lori Vallow and Dennis Trahan, JJ’s biological father. There was also a reference profile from JJ Vallow.

8:50 a.m. Dace explains her experience and training. As part of her job, she examines items of evidence and generates DNA profiles from the items. M2020-2233 is the case number for JJ Vallow and Tylee Ryan. Dace received autopsy samples from JJ, tape from around his hands, ankles, mouth along with tape and plastic from around his head and body. She also received two swabs from an apartment in Rexburg and tools and a necklace from the Daybell property. She received samples from JJ Vallow, Tylee Ryan, Lori Vallow, Chad Daybell, Melanie Gibb and others.

8:47 a.m. First witness today is Katherine Dace – a forensic biologist and supervisor with Idaho State Police. She will be questioned by Rob Wood.

8:44 a.m. Chad Daybell just walked in the courtroom wearing a checkered dress shirt and yellow tie. Judge Boyce is on the bench. Jurors are being brought in.

8:31 a.m. Larry Woodcock and Vicki Hoban, Tammy Daybell’s aunt, are in the gallery this morning. There are around 25 members of the public here.

8:27 a.m. Back in the courtroom. Prosectors Lindsey Blake, Rob Wood, Ingrid Batey and Rocky Wixom are at the prosecution table. John Prior is at defense. Attorneys are headed back to meet with Judge Boyce. I spotted FBI evidence analyst Benjamin Dean walking into the courthouse this morning.
 
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Do we actually know that he conspired to kill them? Maybe he conspired to hide the remains on his property. I haven't actually seen he conspired to murder them as yet, but may have missed it. Is rating people dark and zombie enough to be a conspiracy? If so, why did the church allow it? He was a Chief executive in his parish right? Isn't that like an assistant to a Bishop?
His ward didn't know what he was doing, I don't think? Once they did know, he was excommunicated. Personally, I would think his comments about them being dark, then accelerating his "teachings" to being zombies would be enough to say he thought they were dead and all that remained were bodies to be killed. He texted Tammy and said he buried a squirrel, so he knew what was happening.
 
I had to look it up because I was that curious. Looks like you can!

(1) Except as provided in section 19-2515A, Idaho Code, a person convicted of murder in the first degree shall be liable for the imposition of the penalty of death if such person killed, intended a killing, or acted with reckless indifference to human life, irrespective of whether such person directly committed the acts that caused death.
But is it a death penalty crime?
 
Thursday 8th - afternoon update.

LIVE UPDATES FROM THE CHAD DAYBELL TRIAL​


CLICK HERE TO WATCH THE TRIAL LIVE
Please excuse the typos. These are live updates from the courtroom.

1:49 p.m. Join me tonight on ‘Courtroom Insider’ tonight at 6:30 p.m. You can find it on my Facebook page and the EastIdahoNews.com YouTube channel.

1:47 p.m. Boyce wants to clarify something about exhibits. He raised a concern with counsel about markings when the trial started. Vallow was mentioned on the markings and Boyce wanted the name removed so jurors would not speculate about her involvement. Boyce says there doesn’t appear to be any cause for speculation with the exhibits so they can now be admitted without redactions.

1:46 p.m. Court is finished for the day as there is some maintenance being done on the courtroom tomorrow. Boyce says there is a brief issue that needs to be discussed outside the presence of the jury.

1:42 p.m. Prior has no questions. Pam is excused.

1:41 p.m. Pam says Tammy had lost some weight and “I was a little jealous of that. She looked good and was happy she felt better and had changed some of her habits.” Wixom has nothing further. Prior will now question the witness.

1:39 p.m. Pam was with Tammy on Thursday at recess duty speaking with her and watching her with the kids. “I saw nothing wrong with her so I was shocked” when she learned of Tammy’s death. Pam thought Tammy was quite healthy. She had been training for a race, according to Pam, and on the Thursday before her death, they spoke about it. “She had told me she felt she was in the best health of her life. She had been eating better and losing some weight and training. She said very good about her health.”

1:38 p.m. “She was a good friend as well as a co-worker,” Pam says. Tammy would engage with the children during play time and make sure they were ok. She was very involved with the kids. Pam learned about Tammy’s passing from another teacher.

1:37 p.m. Pam worked with Tammy for 2-3 years. She saw Tammy around the school every day because she was running around doing her library and computer stuff with the children. Pam was at recess duty twice a week with Tammy. “Tammy would be able to run around with them and interact with them. She knew each child by name – all of them in the school. She loved the children and they loved her very much,” Pam says through tears.

1:35 p.m. Pamela Peebles is the next witness. Rocky Wixom is questioning her. Pam lives in Rigby and works at Central Elementary in Sugar City. She is a Title One teacher – she helps children not on grade level in their reading.

1:34 p.m. Prior asks if there were preparations for the book fair the next week. Gee doesn’t remember. Prior asks if Tammy kept to herself about her personal life. “Not really. I wouldn’t say that,” Gee says. Prior has nothing further. No more questions from the prosecutor. Gee is excused from her subpoena.

1:33 p.m. Gee received a text message from the principal the next day that Tammy had died. “I was shocked. Shocked. I didn’t see any indication that she was sick,” Gee says. Batey has nothing further. Prior will now cross examine.

1:32 p.m. Gee spoke with Tammy between 3:20-3:30 p.m. the day before Tammy died. They spoke about one of Gee’s students. Tammy was very animated, friendly and kind. “I didn’t see any health issues. We talked just like I would on a regular day,” Gee says, describing Tammy’s energy level as “great.”

1:31 p.m. Gee and Tammy worked together for around three years. During this testimony, Chad is scrolling with his mouse on the computer in front of him.

1:29 p.m. Next witness is Tammy Gee. She works at Central Elementary in Sugar City and has worked there for 14 years. She teaches kindergarten. Ingrid Batey is questioning her.

1:28 p.m. Prior has nothing further. No re-direct. She is released from her subpoena.

1:27 p.m. Prior asks about the book fair Tammy was preparing for the day before she died. He asks if it was a significant endeavor to prepare for the fair. Janet says the book fair wasn’t until the next week so there wasn’t a lot of extra work that needed to be done on that Friday.

1:26 p.m. Prior asks if Janet agrees that Tammy’s one confident at the school was Emma. Janet says she doesn’t agree with that – she had lots of friends at the school and would chat with others. Prior asks if Tammy and Emma spent a lot of time together when they had down time. Janet says she doesn’t think they did.

1:25 p.m. Prior asks Janet if she remembers speaking with Officer Mattingly. She asks who that is. She explains an officer came by the office to take a report. Prior asks about Janet telling police that Tammy kept to herself. She explains that she kept to herself because she wanted to do her job and work. She never said personal things to Janet.

1:24 p.m. Wixom asks Janet if she noticed if Tammy gained or lost any weight. She doesn’t think so. She was always on the go where she needed to be. Wixom has nothing further. Prior will now cross examine.

1:23 p.m. Janet last saw Tammy at 3:45 p.m. the day before she died. Janet didn’t notice anything wrong with her and “she seemed like she had energy no matter what time of day it was. She was just always on the go.”

1:22 p.m. “I thought, ‘How could this be? I just barely saw her Friday at 3:45. She was laughing, she was happy, she was talking about putting up curtains in the computer lab. It was really quite a shock. I didn’t know how it could happen,” Janet says. Tammy and Emma stopped at the office on the way out to tell her about the curtains in the computer lab.

1:20 p.m. Tammy was never sick. She never had a cough or sniffle or limp – nothing that Janet noticed. Tammy never complained about her health. “She was the Energizer bunny. She was everywhere and did everything she needed to. She never quit and was always where she needed to be.” She did lunchroom duty, computer lab, recess duty.

1:19 p.m. Janet saw Tammy several times every day. Tammy would often visit the office. She says everybody loved Tammy. She was very friendly and nice to everyone.

1:16 p.m. Next witness is Janet Andersen. Rocky Wixom will question her. Janet lives in St. Charles, Idaho, by Bear Lake. She used to live in Lyman, near Rexburg. Janet was the secretary at Central Elementary in Sugar City.

1:15 p.m. Wood has nothing further. Dean is done but will remain under subpoena just in case he needs to be called again.

1:13 p.m. Prior has no further questions. Wood has some re-direct. Wood asks if Dean was provided with devices for the entire length of the Daybell marriage. Dean says he was not.

1:12 p.m. Prior asks Dean if he looked at other devices Tammy Daybell may have had. Dean says no. Prior asks if Dean was aware Tammy communicated with her children about locating and finding raccoons. Wood objects and says this misstates prior testimony. Boyce sustains objection.

1:10 p.m. Dean says the outgoing messages on Tammy’s phone ended Oct. 18, 2019. There were some ingoing messages afterward. Prior asks Dean how long Tammy and Chad were married. Dean doesn’t know the exact amount. Prior asks if Dean evaluated all the text messages from their entire marriage. Dean did not.

1:08 p.m. Prior asks Dean if the mention of animals in communication with Tammy was unusual. Dean says it happened a few times.

1:07 p.m. Prior begins by asking Dean if he reviewed Chad’s phone too. He did not – just Tammy’s. Prior asks if there were frequent discussions between Tammy and other members of her family. Dean says yes. There were three people living in the Daybell home – Tammy, Chad and Garth.

1:06 p.m. “Chad told Tammy he started a fire, shot a large animal and buried that large animal – he did those things on the day after Tylee Ryan was last seen alive,” Dean says. Wood has no further questions.

1:04 p.m. Dean says this message was the only one on the device where Chad wrote to Tammy “such a lengthy and detailed explanation of his days events.” The date caught Dean’s attention because his first assignment in the investigation was to review tips about JJ and Tylee. “After having reviewed hundreds of photographs and video files taken all across Yellowstone National Park on the 8th of September 2019, I was very much aware that date was the last day Tylee Ryan was seen alive.”

1:03 p.m. The first message stood out to Dean because it was longer and more detailed than any other messages that were exchanged between Tammy and Chad. “Messages sent between the two were relatively short and they dealt with routine matters, household matters, things of that nature,” Dean says.

1:02 p.m. Tammy sent a message to Chad at 1:47 p.m. “Good for you.” Chad sent a message to Tammy at 1:48 p.m. “I’m back home now.”

1:01 p.m. Chad sent a second message to Tammy the same day at 10:56 a.m. “Gonna shower now and then go write for a while at BYU. Love you.”

1 p.m. The message was sent on Sept. 9, 2019 at 10:53 a.m.

12:54 p.m. Dean looks at the exhibit and Wood asks to publish. It’s a message Chad sent to Tammy: “I’ve had an interesting morning! I felt I should burn all of the limb debris by the fire pit before it got too soaked by the coming storm. While I did so, I spotted a big raccoon along the fence. I hurried and got my gun, and he was still walking along. I got close enough that one shot did the trick. He is now in our pet cemetery. Fun times!”

12:50 p.m. Back in the courtroom. Dean remains on the stand. Wood continues to question.
 
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I knew they stopped off to get the breakfast and then took him to school. Tylee went with her. I guess she got out the house fast so it could all be blamed on Alex. Also I seem to remember Tylee had taken JJ out to the car so I don't know if they saw the actual shooting. The fact that only Lori is still alive from that day out of 5 people, says it all really.
Didn't she also take his car or am I wrong about that...? Seemed to me that might have been the case...
 

(Joe Ryan's sister Annie)

Ever heard this?


11/5/17: Lori Vallow records a disturbing rendition of the song “Hallelujah” where she describes her indoctrination of Alex into her belief system (source).

Note: I’ll highlight some of the more significant lines from the verses, but it’s incredibly insightful into her manipulation of her low-IQ, psychopathic brother.
The link seemed broken for me. Couldn't find the website. Was actually curious to hear her sing rather than just her known flirty voice and her Chad baby voice.

I've watched all of Annie's I believe on this case back in the day. It was real time commitment as most all of hers are very long but I found them worth it so I stuck them out. With her super smart analytics and computer skills, she searched for key words through ton of documents and such. Such could have helped LE a LOT and wonder if they didn't make use of such but unsure. She's a more than fair woman about her brother as well, not making him out to be any angel. They had a tough upbringing. I wish they would investigate more and come up with something proving the odd things about Joe's death. I'm convinced Alex was not natural causes and will never believe otherwise. Joe I am a bit more torn about but think the same is likely. Lori benefited from his and even though divorced had first access and all because I suppose of Tylee.
 
So Mel P said she hadn't spoken to LE but she had spoken to them on the video I just posted. Was she aware when this was recorded that Ian was recording everything for LE? Presumably Chad and Lori were in Hawaii at this point in time and LE had not yet tracked them down. She wants Mel P to move to Idaho Fals and Mel P says she thought Rexburg is supposed to be safe - throwing their previous cr@p back at them LOL. Can't watch any more at the moment.
The way I recall it is Ian caved pretty quickly and told her he was recording for LE which I'm sure LE didn't like imo. Mel sounds to me on these recordings as though she is showing LE she is trying to get info(?). Imo, if Mel P knew you can BET she found a way to tell Chad and Lori Ian was recording for LE. Jmo, could be either way I guess but I feel that way. Mel P would have never turned on Lori in a million years and she still hasn't imo. She never testified at Lori's.

I also find it a bid hard to believe that out of all the people, the only one who knew of the murders or how they went down, the plan, and by who and date and so on was Alex. Other than Chad and Lori of course. Mel P was "raised" by Lori (I'd argue that but all know what I mean I trust) so was arguably even more dependent and loyal than Alex or at least the SAME to both of them. She is brighter I'd says than Alex and was totally into them being her ma and pa. She is family. I find it impossible to believe only Alex knew I mean come on the entire group went to Rexburg together and lived in the same complex and Brandon was one of the ones with a "hit" out on him and she and Alex were up to big time no good the night they ran into LE at wasn't it Brandon's parents house? She went with Lori to Hawaii when just lol and behold Tammy died. It was ensured imo Lori was not around when Tammy died and Chad was not around when Charles died but both spouses were a joint plan by these two evil disgusting "sweethearts" ruled by his Storm.

Now Zulema and Mel G never moved to Rexburg despite efforts made by Mr.and Mrs. Daybell and neither were lifelong family members of Lori's either. Maybe not as trustworthy HOWEVER Lori trusted Mel enough to say JJ was with her AND they had DAVID and MEL G there the weekend JJ was murdered!! I think they're all guilty if you want my opinion and were part of every bit. Maybe not each hands on but a part of all, knowledge and so on. However, I truly think Mel P is AND Alex without a doubt. She's called Minnie Me for a reason and I don't doubt her sporting a dark hairdo and glasses is being as opposite Lori at trial as she could look.

Dates would have to be looked at as to when Ian claimed he told her and hen these phone calls were recorded but note the recording is getting both sides.
 
I cannot see yet that Chad is implicated in JJ's murder as it seems it is Alex's prints on the plastic. What do you all think?

On Tylee we have him "burying a racoon" but I think they said the animal bones were put back in the grave so unless there are prints on the bucket remains or on the charm and chain, how will he be implicated rather than Alex, in that one too.? I think they have him on Tammy.
I think there's plenty to show this was THEIR plan, all were, Charles, Tammy, Brandon and the kids and so on. P-L-E-N-T-Y. Remember Chad was there for Tammy's, Lori was convicted and coudln't be placed at any of the other than for a hair and she was JJ's mom and the tape may have come from hers or Alex's, not a strong tie.

They were on his property and Tylee's DNA on what was it 9 out of ten of tools or was that the ones blood was on but testing found hers on less but still significant. Are we to believe Alex came over and spent hours burning these kids out in an open field basically and Chad, Tammy, their kids, neighbors or Emma across the road never though who the heck is that man in mom and dad's field? And an hours long fire or more so for Tylee. No, the one that could pull this off was Chad. JJ was under layers and there was rock and then this and then that, it would have taken some time. And being able to see as well. However, a homeowner putting on his own property so long as no bodies can be seen, easily dismissed or explained. And when the kids were likely buried, it wasn't known yet or a big story that they were missing nor was anything pertaining to Chad and Lori HOT with LE and so on. Not until Kay called. There was also Chad wanting to put another home or mobile home on their property for he and Lori. Give me a break, that was never their plan. He wanted to dig and have an excuse and bury them forever underneath as most suspect.

There's just a LOT and a LOT more than what I mention here. You've seen it. Testimony helps tell it. Phone communications and times and locations add to it. All does, everything does.

You don't really believe he is not guilty in both do you? Both were facing the DP and Lori couldn't be placed even less easily as hands on either. I suspect you are talking about being actually hands on rather than conspiracy?

Even if you are, there was Tylee's blood on HIS tools on his property. If you are only talking JJ I guess that's slightly different but none of this matters in my opinion as in a conspiracy if one murders or two out of three or four but all were part of the conspiracy they're all guilty of murder.
 
Can’t you get the death penalty for being in a conspiracy? He obviously conspired to kill JJ and Tylee.
I believe so but I think it is because if you are guilty of conspiracy to commit you then are guilty of the murder. And murder get the DP in ID and these are aggravating factors:

Idaho: Idaho Statute 19-2515

(1) The defendant was previously convicted of another murder.
(2) At the time the murder was committed the defendant also committed another murder.
(3) The defendant knowingly created a great risk of death to many persons.
(4) The murder was committed for remuneration or the promise of remuneration or the defendant employed another to commit the murder for remuneration or the promise of remuneration.
(5) The murder was especially heinous, atrocious or cruel, manifesting exceptional depravity.
(6) By the murder, or circumstances surrounding its commission, the defendant exhibited utter disregard for human life.
(7) The murder was committed in the perpetration of, or attempt to perpetrate, arson, rape, robbery, burglary, kidnapping or mayhem and the defendant killed, intended a killing, or acted with reckless indifference to human life.
(8) The murder was committed in the perpetration of, or attempt to perpetrate, an infamous crime against nature, lewd and lascivious conduct with a minor, sexual abuse of a child under sixteen (16) years of age, ritualized abuse of a child, sexual exploitation of a child, sexual battery of a minor child sixteen (16) or seventeen (17) years of age, or forcible sexual penetration by use of a foreign object, and the defendant killed, intended a killing, or acted with reckless indifference to human life.
(9) The defendant, by his conduct, whether such conduct was before, during or after the commission of the murder at hand, has exhibited a propensity to commit murder which will probably constitute a continuing threat to society.
(10) The murder was committed against a former or present peace officer, executive officer, officer of the court, judicial officer or prosecuting attorney because of the exercise of official duty or because of the victim’s former or present official status.
(11) The murder was committed against a witness or potential witness in a criminal or civil legal proceeding because of such proceeding.


I think #4 particularly applies as does 5 big time. Even number 8 is interesting, ritualized abuse of a child...

I'll do this right and official in that I will give the link to the site I pulled this from

 
I’m glad you highlighted this part. From what Nate was saying, all of this was done before law-enforcement was called! So she was just driving around while Alex cleaned up the scene? That’s what it sounds like to me.
Yeah barefoot it seems until they bought shoes or a possibility. I just wonder if like many of their things if this was their original plan or it changed... Kind of dumb to take her dead ex's phone with her... She liked to call Alex an idiot and can't do anything right but I don't think Lori's any brainiac either. She can act for those who fall for a couple of certain things or fall by the head of their storm. But that's about all I see. I mean she did get some puzzles on the Wheel but she wasn't the big winner lol. Do you recall if she took Charles' car to take JJ to school? For some reason I think so OR was going to OR had to move it to get out or some such....
 
I’m glad you highlighted this part. From what Nate was saying, all of this was done before law-enforcement was called! So she was just driving around while Alex cleaned up the scene? That’s what it sounds like to me.
He also had to find the gumption to hit himself on the head or maybe he had Lori do it to cause his minor injury. Or maybe Charles actually got when in before he died. I doubt it somehow. I think he was ambushed the minute he was inside most likely. I think sadly Tylee either lied (understandable the position she lived in and lies mom told her and who her mother was) OR it was set up for her to wake up and think whatever but it doesn't entirely wash for me...

As to clean up, I can't imagine there was much for Alex to clean up. The Chandler PD bought their story even though it was CLEARLY NOT self defense, I can't believe it even flew. You have time to walk back to a bedroom to get your gun and aren't attacked on the way by Charles or anything else and could have easily left the home with Lori and the kids. It just was not self defense, whatever happened, it should have never flown. As to clean up well he admitted shooting him and if he cleaned up he'd have moved the casings or bullet shells-I'm not up good on gun terms or ammo terms but it was projectiles and angles that played in later as to where Charles was shot and where such was found when they DID have to relook at the case. They had so much egg on their face it wasn't even funny but seems to have been just kind of put down to it was still open, they didn't open and shut it which seems clear is exactly what they did.

Were Charles prints on the bat do we even know, and Tylee's naturallky would be? Were Alex's?

We don't have the full story and I doubt we ever will on any of these deaths as to the total truth. Good educated guesses by LE and evidence, yes but from the killers? Never. The entire story comes from them along with an innocent girl stuck in a family with a mother who has done things to every man in her life through her kids' lives. They are all bad of course. She's an angel. gag. I don' buy the story. Interesting also there comes a bat when Charles was the baseball star. Annie and other said if Charles swung at Alex, he'd have had more than a minor injury. The bat was either a lie OR he got it away from Tylee (if that is even true) and couldn't swing it or put it down as he was the one being ATTACKED. These have always been my thoughts. We know this murder was planned. Lori had learned about Adam and Charles talking and more and wanted that cell phone. The family knew what Lori told them and how or whose side they had better be on which is why Adam was coldly received when he got there to his parents, Tylee knew, Alex knew. Summer knew. Not saying all of them knew a murder of Charles was going to happen but they KNEW Lori was being put on by Charles and he was being rotten as to her story to them and Adam too and her family had BETTER be on her side... You've heard it as you've watched them, Rex and Adam. It haunted Adam that he felt Tylee was wanting to say something to him and the chance never occurred... ,

I may have the timing of this mixed up as to when that was at their parents but I don't think so.

This may be nothing but a thought just occurred to me. Two of the four deaths got locked into a story and that was the murder of Charles (or self defense) and of Tammy (natural causes). The other two, the kids, were just gone missing so we have no story to disprove other than the missing was a lie. And we know the story of what happened to Tammy is a total lie and so it goes to follow what the story is as to what happened to Charles IS A LIE. This is why I don't know that I buy the bat or some other things in it at all. I think it is very possible Charles came in and Alex had a gun to his head or pointed at him in short order. Lori got his phone. Not sure about Tylee but allegedly (again from them) neither kid was out of their room (yet ready for school minutes after JJ was?) so maybe Charles started reacting or Alex yelling and Tylee did come out with a bat but I honestly don't think so. Lori was never in danger nor was Alex. Charles was. I think even more likely kids or at least Tylee was told to stay in her room night before because Charles was bad, evil and going to cause problems. Tylee HAD to know some of what was REALLY going on or there'd have never been the "not me mom, remark, the no, not me mom" knowing what dark meant. Dark meant you etc murdered or die. At what point she knew what or only started to realize after Charles or before, I don't know and can't recall all dates for sure. But just like her dad was bad per her mom and Alex shot at him with a stun gun years earlier and he molested I think the story became at some point BOTH kids (Colby and Tylee), now Charles was bad. She had seen that her whole life at least and was old enough with a brain imo far superior to her mothers and common sense to start putting a whole lot together as this spiraled worse when Chad and she joined, etc...

Enough of me going on. Just kind of recalling some things in talking of it and a new thought or two pops. Like two murders have stories, one by Alex and Lori and Tylee, and in Tammy's the story comes solely from Chad perhaps with the help of a child or two... Or five as to her health and such in further days even if not there that night. And we know now Garth was at work at a Halloween maze or haunted house or whatever it was...

Here's one I forgot about. I only got to watch 7 to ten minutes of the one @Tresir posed of Mel P's interview where she had her toddler with. The kid was blurred but alked so guessing toddler put on a blanket etc. on the floor. Only heard some minutes of initial questioning and one was how long her and Brandon had been married before this acrimonious divorce which of course she is putting more on him... And she was like on Halloween let me think it would be this many years....

WHO gets married on Halloween that is like serious LDS? And this is long before these days and these murders. Okay maybe she loves the holiday and black cats, I don't know but I look at that photo that I recalled that was found a few weeks ago and it looked like a witches coven in October with Chad the only male and Warlock or Leader with his harem... And then after hearing that, I never forget this, David and Mel G got married on the date of Alex's death wasn't it? Finally married after how many years but one wonders why as they don't live together, etc...

Linda is one and there are others that think days and times of day when murders happened play into some occult or Satan or I don't know what thin. You know Linda likes her patterns. I'm not even talking of these two marriage dates in the paragraph above but the dates the murders occurred, the time of morning on the dates they did or middle of night and so forth.

Now I am not sold on that AT ALL but they sure played other stupid kind of stuff like this. EArthquakes, where, day of the second coming and so on. Mel and DAvid were one thing but the other Mel and Brandon must have been married on Halloween... Again I don't get too into this kind of thing but that's odd imo. I think Annie may have been another who looked at some of this before we knew of these marriage dates of course...

And I've run the gamut here. My week and days off were so messed up this week. And hours all over the place. Day of yesterday, had to work today, have tomorrow off. So no two in a row which is the only thing I ask of them in return for working every single weekend and ANY shift all week.

And I haven't even caught up on this one thread yet probably because I'm answering with thoughts at length with no time most of the week.

Anyhow going back or things brought up bring some things back for all of us and that's happening with me as well. And brings new thoughts as well. Lord knows there is enough easiy enough to forget over all these years with the sheer mass of players, info, deaths, interviews, various jurisdcitions and so much more and many husbands and one long term wife until Mrs. New Daybell. And just a ton. I don't think and sure hope to heck we will ever see another case like this although the correct term is caseS. I can only HOPE the jury can follow and I can see why they dial into mostly just what they need to and maybe a bit more but not too much more to prosecute them.
 
How about he heard that earlier this week Julie Rowe was dancing outside the court house?
Yeah it was a long one, I watched all, shared and then was upset I couldn't recall all I wanted to touch on. NO SH*T. I forgot that. WHAT was she doing even trying to get IN? I think or first guess sis wants to wreck her having to testify? Mel P pulled sh*t we will probably never now the truth of at Lori's as well. And ended up not testifying. Then we had DAvid W watching testimony of his wife and others.

But yes the dancing. You know, Nate has gotten I think more secure and he isn't scared to call some things as they seem but without going OVER the top into sensationalism but I feel he used to be more careful to a point but NOT so much he wans't in Hawaii in Lori and Chad's face. But as he said too they will never be the type to publish autopsy photos and other things and consider what and why would you or anyone need such--and in the Q & A answer session he understood people asking but didn't know why anyone would want to see them and I think said they were seen at Lori's? Not here though. And he'll never be able to unsee them.

For me just the descriptions in testimony yesterday (I was off) was enough and too much for me. I stuck it out for a lot longer than I should have but jus couldn't any longer. Even WORSE on families. Larry wasn't there as I recall and the day before he had advised Kay to not go but he did but the next day he didn't. For US and jurors it is BEYOND and worse we know we are not hearing everything . I suspect the jurors, the pics and testimony still are not even close to things LE suspect happened to keep things already beyond for most people to not even further. Imagination alone can do that and does. I had to stop. This POOR jury. Those kids' families--I mean the ones that loved them and did not MURDER them. Tammy's too. I think every single death was brutal and intentionally tortured. ANd that TOO is just I don't even have words.

So again I sidetrack. Julie Rowe was part of Chad's first (not sure first but) thing... I think I watched her once AFTER she tried to distance herself from them and this case (and there were others that did this too and I think this thing has been big time shut down from what seemed to be going on in the early days and how many people AND the church knowing of it it all, jmo based on a lot I saw). I think I saw one of her older ones and then one after all of this and to me she was immediately a money hungering ridiculous fraud and SOOO fake). I could not see even if no murders how anyone could fall for her sh*t but just so darned many LDS did. Many in this bunch knew her first and so on and even relatives who were not involved (we hope).

So what was her dancing? She is an attention getter that's for sure. AND her trying to get into the courtroom? WAs she going to disrupt it all and save Chad as the second coming or earthquake happened and judge and LE fell through the floors of the courtroom to the bowels of HE77?

I know I sound out there too but WTH? I've been and I think many of us have been through a whole lot of beyond hard times in life and total heartache, loss, more, insecurity, bullying even, you name it. And I could NEVER fall for things like this. EVER EVER at my weakest lowest moment and I will guarantee you I have lived far worse than Lori ever has or most of them that I can see or we can tell as many have here. I wonder about all things don't get me wrong. I have questioned God my goodness after countless losses in a row and the baby took the cake. But that's doubting or trying to maintain faith, to make oneself exalted and God's brother and Christ's brother (I think that may have been in Nate's as well re testimony or something), NO you don't do that. ANd who falls for those that DO? I know you have talked you know of people in it but this whole LDS thing is based on a teenager who saw something. And said so. And just that easy an entire religion was born and everyone in it if they have visions or knowledge or visits is instantly taken by some as he same. That's how I see it. and I KNOW it is more than that but I see it as a cult. I dont' think all in it or raised in it are bad but I am not going to be PC here, this religius experience occurred in NY did it not and even NYC by a teenager and it's only ever been a US based religion although now it is beyond that and some of the old day ones who want to still practice their illegal ways spread into Mexico and such. I know a lot of case on other things and not just from here and that are shut down and out of the news. Anyone who has time follow the DOJ website.

Again I'm wandering. Sorry. Shoes are finally off. Cats got off all over me and have balcony door open and are outside.

Julie Rowe is like the FAKEST claimed psychic I have ever seen. and I do believe there are SOME real ones with some REAL connections out there. EVERYONE in this religion, these podcasts, the base of it are. All authors or wannabes. All attend seminars or conferences. And all the men are in monied jobs or that is the THING.

It's interesting to me, I hold on to my faith but I do and have questioned, that both Ian and that cousin of Lori's have quit all religion. Did he say if his wife had? Not sure. I can see why though with this case and the WARPED murders and thoughts and even of Julie Rowe to bring it back, DANCING. WTH is she up to? I guess it will make her viewers pay up to hear her reasons and visions and why she did.

I know there is something bigger than us. Someone or something. I never lose that. And it isn't science. If we had such discussions or went near them I could shoot that down a hundred ways in a heartbeat. With pure logic even, not just a belief in God.

Lori and Chad are Satan's. Lori talks of God and preaches about Satan as does Chad and yet they are cons and are HIS. I'm not sure Lori gets that or not but Chad believes in none of it imo. He doesn't believe in God and he doesn't believe in Satan. He is a total con and is not worried about EITHER heaven or HE77.

Okay. Enough out of me.

Yes, Nate's video was INTERESTING as HECK. One of his longer ones but well worth watching. I wasn't going to and needed to go to bed but started and then yeah, I had to finish it. Or was that this morning? This pace in life has to end. No pretty sure it was last night or in the wee hours before bed.
 
I wonder if they needed to get their flip-flops purchased because she was having a party that night? I’m serious! That is how coldhearted these people are. It’s amazingly horrifying.
I haven't forgot who cold blooded these people are but I do think we have a tendency to when it's been quiet awhile or we only suspect some things and know some to hope or think they just are whatever, misguided, insane, etc. mental issues and so on but then we get the case in trial and it is like WHAM. Because we aren't that way and cannot fathom and have to go back to some kind of thought that gets us through. I think that's where the jury is at now. Wham with the autopsy photos and all other details of the pure evil and probably TORTURE and it is necessary and they are going to have to come to a verdict before they can go home and over six months, a year, two years maybe longer try to get a bit of stuff and whether denial or forgetting in between what they've seen and know. We've never had all but we've followed it for years, most likely most jurors have NOT are the ones they pick and we've been shocked to no end but not known all details but a bit of time passes when it is quieter and invariably one or two or some start thinking well he played her or she played him and this is awful but no different than other murders in other cases but they are. maybe try for some denial and to be open minded. Or just forget.

Imo we don't know the half of it and even this worst of it being found out and we now know, I don't think is the half of it.
 
His ward didn't know what he was doing, I don't think? Once they did know, he was excommunicated. Personally, I would think his comments about them being dark, then accelerating his "teachings" to being zombies would be enough to say he thought they were dead and all that remained were bodies to be killed. He texted Tammy and said he buried a squirrel, so he knew what was happening.
I'm not convinced of that and they and the church certainly knew all the nonmurder stuff like about all the Julie Rowes, Melanie Gibbs, Chad Daybells, Preparing the People, Avow and a lot more that a ton more members were wrapped up into big time. Jmo.

As to his ward, his SIL sure knew and tried to sound the alarms. But she was disbelieved and thought to be the one in the wrong as if Chad was some prince. Maybe a male thing...? Certainly that does exist in the LDS to this day.... Jmo. Funny anyone should back him over here when they lived there first and he never had...

I agree though with the zombies and DEAD and it was a raccoon but there is plenty to hang Chad here and give him the DP and the trial is barely underway. Imo. HIs own mother and brother maybe didn't like go all out but testified against him brought by the prosecution and were prosecution witnesses as was his SIL Heather. His mother apologized to his SIL back when. His dad never did but again I guess we have that male LDS thing.

I've seen a LOT on all this way of things and not just in this case. Even a few here-- though most I've seen are outside of here but here, Elena Fisher for instance, do I have the name right. They always try to make it that it is fundamentalist or a breakoff group but I don't buy that for a minute. Just like this bunch in this case, they all met in and went to and continued to the temple and so on.

You are I believe at least my age, do you not remember the government huge come down on UT and the LDS and polygamy and more? I do.
They didn't stop anything they had to "appear to" and most went underground. And the anti government thing? Well all goes back to that and more. Lori's dad was anti governent. (Heck dont' get me wrong I think we should all take the same stacne these days) but we don't.

And another entire side to all of it just about THE CHURCH, the churches rivaling gold fixtures and pizzaz like Vegas casinos but beyond there have been huge scandals and HUGE money fraud things by the Chuch at the TOP. The story barely breaks and then goes out of the news. IN THIS LAST YEAR. It is ALL about power and mostly MONEY. Just like Chad and Lori.

Money is a huge thing even to their members and only certain jobs can be taken and more...

I'm a Christian. I'm a Lutheran. I can probably be okay with being nondemonitional but Christian to a point. I live under no such strictures, watch list, don't have to date only in my ward, only work certain jobs or have my life impeded. I could go on. It's a CULT. Like Scientology. It's a scheme. And on one hand they are trying to keep things from coming out and have a TON of power, AND MONEY, at the same time even having that power like in this case (and THEY DO imo) people are learning more and those even raised in it as more comes out in this day and age they have people LEAVING. Or trying to leave but then losing their children. Like I said Ian has went it sounds like NO belief in any religion or God, so has Lori's cousin. I think that's one extreme to the other personally but I can understand it. And these were people RAISED in IT.

They TRACK their people. THEY are in control of many things in their lives.

Okay. Been a week.

I want to reiterate I don't mean anyone who is LDS is bad. We are raised in what we are raised in, we have brain cells, we get older. We question. I do. I maintain my faith. I don't necessarily believe every mankind change or interpretation of it and there are a thousand ways and people who do such or more but I know there is something way bigger than us. This I have basically never doubted. I have railed against why such power can't save a child etc. But this is no science thing this life. Science wouldn't exist nor would the things that create such without someone or something having created them. It's the chicken and the egg and what came first. Really truly think about that and drive yourself nuts. I started to at about the age of I don't know 2nd grade, 1st? I asked my Sunday School Teacher where God came from. And she was nonplussed. I think I got well he just IS she said. And I said but everything has to come from somewhere and everybody. How did HE come to be? ANd that started my lifelong no answers. Did we come from some sonic BOOM or earth did or life did? Okay, well who the heck or what the heck created the things that made that BOOM? The elements? The did not just exist. This is all mankind stuff. There is no END to any line of thinking. It is circular. Before there was nothing and then there was something but that had to come from something and somewhere. NOTHINGNESS is even a human thought. No one in my entire life and now I am how many decades old has every totally got what I mean. If there was NOTHING at one time non-existent or there was nothing well how could nothingness come up with anything. NO there is no this chemical or element because THEY HAD to be created or come from somewhere or someone. Nothing can come to be from something else and what was before that had to come to be from something. Oh it came from this chemical or this thing well no because that is mankind's limited brain--there will be no elements no things, as they had to come from somewhere or be exlained. Explain it, it cannot be explained. And that's why... And I know some will not get my point here. Nothingness is even just a concept, a human one. So is science.

Oh boy have I had a week. Reall wanting to defuse, talk, catch up.

It's like and some have new nieces, nephews, grandchildren younger than mine, etc. And any of us when kids were younger know that why, why, why of a two year old, sometimes into three. WEl that's what this is in its way.

You don't believe in God or a POWER BIGGER THAN US well you tell me what you believe and I will take it apart and dismantle it.

So we came from apes? Where did they come from? Oh from this? Where did that come from? Drive yourself nuts with it everyone, I have my entire life. From a very young age.

But I have seen and believe and no I am not being a Julie Rowe or Chad or Lori, there is something bigger than us. I don't try to SELL the fact, use the fact, expect anyone else to believe the fact, but I've had things that bring me great comfort when most needed. And imo show me there is something or someone (a human concept again) much bigger than us and some purpose.

I can also tell you even though I've had questions my entire life I believe because of things like this at the worst of times that I know I could never have gotten through my life if I didn't. I feel for anyone who does not believe there is something more because that's the ONLY thing that saves me and has my entire life at my lowest moments. And I'm not church going, acitive, nor overly any such way. I believe I will see my dad, my brothers and mk grandbaby again and I won't go into the countless aunts, uncles, grandparents, friends. With the closets ones and the most hurt, I have SEEN miracle signs to comfort and show they are okay. Not every single loss, but the ones that are the closest and hardest and most needed, they FIND a way or are allowed to with something just specific to what you would know. I also saw it with my ex and his dad and as there to witness it. You cannot explain this stuff.

Boy, sorry. Been quite the few weeks. But Chad, Lori and that church, Julie Rowe, etc. nope. Cons.

I was thinking recently that maybe Chad is fine with prison if it becomes that way because he wants to top Warren Jeffs who apparently still runs his group from prison and they go on and do his sh*t. NOW what is wrong with our system that such could even GO ON??

of course Google it and LDS says he is not a member and never was but he runs the fundamentalist if you dig deeper LDS thing. Bull.

They were ALL polygamists and more this church all founded on kind of what Chad did and Jeffs. Let's have a vision and then make rules to get what we most desire in life.

Some will probably say and of course I am long weeked and tired and have went on but that I am being whatever but I am older than many here and I REMEMBER what went on with this religion and how they had no CHOICE but to pretend to change or go underground. On the surface it changed. I was a MINOR and I RECALL it.

Okay okay. Have to get Snit off the balcony and shut the door.
 
I think there's plenty to show this was THEIR plan, all were, Charles, Tammy, Brandon and the kids and so on. P-L-E-N-T-Y. Remember Chad was there for Tammy's, Lori was convicted and coudln't be placed at any of the other than for a hair and she was JJ's mom and the tape may have come from hers or Alex's, not a strong tie.

They were on his property and Tylee's DNA on what was it 9 out of ten of tools or was that the ones blood was on but testing found hers on less but still significant. Are we to believe Alex came over and spent hours burning these kids out in an open field basically and Chad, Tammy, their kids, neighbors or Emma across the road never though who the heck is that man in mom and dad's field? And an hours long fire or more so for Tylee. No, the one that could pull this off was Chad. JJ was under layers and there was rock and then this and then that, it would have taken some time. And being able to see as well. However, a homeowner putting on his own property so long as no bodies can be seen, easily dismissed or explained. And when the kids were likely buried, it wasn't known yet or a big story that they were missing nor was anything pertaining to Chad and Lori HOT with LE and so on. Not until Kay called. There was also Chad wanting to put another home or mobile home on their property for he and Lori. Give me a break, that was never their plan. He wanted to dig and have an excuse and bury them forever underneath as most suspect.

There's just a LOT and a LOT more than what I mention here. You've seen it. Testimony helps tell it. Phone communications and times and locations add to it. All does, everything does.

You don't really believe he is not guilty in both do you? Both were facing the DP and Lori couldn't be placed even less easily as hands on either. I suspect you are talking about being actually hands on rather than conspiracy?

Even if you are, there was Tylee's blood on HIS tools on his property. If you are only talking JJ I guess that's slightly different but none of this matters in my opinion as in a conspiracy if one murders or two out of three or four but all were part of the conspiracy they're all guilty of murder.
I believe he is guilty but proving it is necessary. I think he is done for with Tammy but the kids, especially JJ are harder to prove if no DNA linking him directly. Phone evidence ties him to the burials but nothing so far ties him to the murders. How did Lori get tied to the murders, for example?

I really think it was dumb burying them on the property - but for that they could have got away with it.
 
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