JOSHUA "JJ" VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN, TAMMY DAYBELL, & CHARLES VALLOW: State of Idaho/Arizona vs. Lori & Chad Daybell GUILTY

GrandmaBear · Apr 10, 2024

Kimster said:
Oh, I like this! I'll refer to this from now on. I'll still quote tweets with my personal comments so y'all know what I'm referencing.

We're all different and lack of time for something this long and all day every day I'd think would play in for all so these things are great as are Nate's Tweets and more but they do miss things like Prior's stuttering over how many kids of Chad's, not that that's Uber important and not that I can watch all but when I CAN I prefer the live or later recorded testimony and am glad this one has it unlike so many trials. One can't hear emphasis, strength, hesitation before an answer, etc.

Great coverage though in all and many formats for all of us and whatever we prefer. I certainly tonight am going to have to just rely on Nate's nightly show and certainly cannot probably watch or keep up with night and morning watching all what happened. I managed mostly on Harmony's but that one was not nearly the length this is supposedly going to be. I gather Linda intends to try every single day but boy, I'll wait to see that. That's a commitment, a big one. She did today though. Tomorrow is her birthday and unlike me and some, she was HOPING Boyce would actually break for a day after opening statements so she could have her birthday off to do something. Ha ha. If Boyce did that after what an hour or two, and jurors came all the way in for the day? He is famous for breaks but that would put all up in arms imo.

Anyhow the parts I saw and watched were live via her channel with her commentary in between on breaks. But of course I didn't get through openings before I had to leave for work. Finished Prior's on hers tonight though at where I left if off this morning and that works well too for me.

GrandmaBear · Apr 10, 2024

RoundPeg said:
I thought they had to have a death penalty certified on the defense as well. Especially since Prior is now court appointed, isn't he? I'm open to being wrong.

He's not court appointed. Pretty sure that never happened. He is private and private does not have to be death certified as I understand it. Imo it was a stunt by Prior who never intended to get off the case but probably laying groundwork for appeal pointing out their disadvantages, that Chad was indigent, and more. Boyce did not let him off is the way I recall it at this late point and Prior even as much as said he didnt' want off or Chad said he wanted him on. It was a bit confusing though.

GrandmaBear · Apr 10, 2024

Tresir said:
I remember this at the time it was all happening and being reported. Especially Chad pretending to not know Lori well.

Yeah very stupidly without thinking and scared imo as they already I think knew otherwise and for sure did very shortly afterwards. Some of the very few minutes I caught of Hermosillo's testimony today was having some investigation and knowledge from GIlbert was it? ANd due to the jeep before the welfare check and such too. Prior objected over and over every time Wood tried to ask Hermosillo what was said after Alex said JJ was with his grandma in Louisiana. He finally lost and had to give it up and it was stated. And Chad and Alex's reaction, etc. It is day one and already what Prior needs to show already has him knowing what is about to be said is not going to help his client. They already knew somethings from Gilbert, from Kay and did some investigating due to the jeep before ever going there on the welfare check or being asked to as well. It was a stupid move on Chad's part when married to her to say such a thing. I think this Apple Dumpling Gang was so sure UNTIL the kids were being looked for that they were on no ones radar and no one had any clues as to what had been done, what was planned, where she and the kids were, etc. Once the kids became a big issue, the whole ball of wax started being looked at, looked back at and all started unraveling and fast. I think they were blindsided quite honestly so off to Hawaii they went ignoring answering about the children. New sfrom the start just kept finding more and more and more.

I take some perverse pleasure in the thought of with all the various things that probably HIT them that kept coming. NATE appearing in Hawaii LOL. A reporter and his camera man paying the money to go hunt them down as the NATION was wondering why two people wouldn't talk of where her kids were or show they were safe. Tammy's exhumation oh my that had to be a shocker and worry to them. Of course they were still trying to do do damage control as Alex then "died of natural causes". I take perverse pleasure in for all of their plans these two never got any kid free, Charles free, Tammy free, rolling in dough happy ever after, they never even got a TASTE of it before they were becoming well known and hunted basically and the dirt and cases and crimes just kept coming... Former shooting at Brandon, at Tammy, look back at Charles, just sooo much.

Were they so stupid as to believe they could just hide their heads and go live in Hawaii and all would give up? I don't think so. I think they were trying to find time to regroup and probably going to head to another country. I really do. I don't think it was their original plan as they never expected to be caught but I think that's what out of desperation they were going to do.

GrandmaBear · Apr 10, 2024

Kimster said:
Prior says Hampikian will talk about “several” hairs found on the plastic of JJ Vallow. “He’s also going to say there was no DNA evidence, no hair sample of Chad Daybell on Tylee Ryan or on JJ Vallow.”

There were TWO Tyvek suits. Was one of them for Chad? I also remember Juror #8 saying that Lori's hair found in the tape on JJ's body didn't mean much to him because she was his mom and of course her hair would be on him. So that should work in reverse, Chad's DNA doesn't have to be on the bodies, either.

I have never been able to shake which we never heard a lot about and I think some don't know but it was that Chad alone took JJ upstairs that night. I forget who that came from. And I don't believe all Mel G's account of that night nor am I sure I believe David's either. Chad was alone with JJ for some time. When they later supposedly saw him asleep in Alex's arms, was he already dead and had Chad done the deed? The entire thing is a bit confusing and I think because they aren't telling the whole truth by a long shot.

So not sure of the reasons or the when but the Tyvek suits I am sure were for some evil purpose and purpose of leaving little evidence. I doubt they were planning to paint a rented apartment, you aren't allowed to.

In the Patrick Frazee (victim Kelsey Berreth case), a pet one of mine and the one when I came here I most had been following, and was about to have trial, Krystal Kenney his supposed cohort was only the cleanup crew he called after he killed Kelsey. I believe 1/100th of the whole story and to this day am angered at the deal she got. But she drove through how many miles to go clean up HIS mess in Kelsey's condo and claimed she wore a Tyvek suit or some painter's coverall or some coverall thing she got at the hospital, she was a nurse for coroners maybe or other purposes they had them for. I can't recall.

I don't need to sidetrack into that case but they needed her to prove her story was true and I don't think there was any clear evidence she did as she said when she said or some such. And the Tyvke suit was part of her showing how she covered herself or some such. Again don't recall it all and I knew it like the back of my hand.

Anyhow to get back to this, and I had a point but not sure where I was going now, we can be sure Alex having two such suits was for some purpose and not for him to likely wear both at different times but for two people to each wear one. What was the time frame with this? This is when they went into the apartments and long before it was known where the kids were I'm sure... So were they new and unused? I assume?

GrandmaBear · Apr 10, 2024

Tresir said:
Everyone in that photo is dead now.

Great point. Kids were already in the way and liabilities and Alex became one. I wonder if he was truly okay with all of this when it came to the kids at least... If doubts came in or he balked... Hurting Joe was one thing believing what Lori said about him and protecting her and the kid and the same with Charles... But on meeting Chad so much changed and their hits were selfish ones and innocent kids, a wife of Chad's so Lori and him could profit and be together in their adulterous relationship and not like protecting he and her family, she and the kids. The kids were now a target. Did he EVER have a problem with it? Was he truly bad or could he have missed Brandon and even Tammy with some real fear of going to prison or lack of wanting to hurt them? Lori is an uncaring psycho as is Chad but Alex knew these kids and was their uncle for years and he knew Brandon as well... Was he truly so led by their new team of Chad and Lori and such very much more evil plans than what he'd done before when he thought he was protecting Lori's little family of her and the kids?

He'd had issues with her or went against her before. There was that story of them heatedly going at each other in the street for many a neighbor to hear and there was something I wish I could recall she said to him about you don't not SIDE with family (do not take my word for that, it was something that said to me, he was not always okay with what she said, expected nor maybe always believed her. This is though one screwed up family without a doubt, at least these members were. Brother and sister's sexual behavior with each other too is notable IF the wife of Alex's brief marriage years back can be believed. I see no reason not to believe her.

I'm starting to go down a rabbit hole here though. So I will stop after this. Chad plans on blaming Alex and Lori but we know Alex was led and I just wonder if in his own thoughts and what he was seeing was not something he questioned at all and I believe Chad is the more evil than Alex. Alex always thought he was protecting THOSE KIDS AND LORI with the former stuff Prior loved citing today...

And of course Alex had to go. Was it because he was NOT so on board and they knew it... It could be just getting rid of someone that knew too much but why now... Hadn't he known a lot before leading up...

GrandmaBear · Apr 10, 2024

Kimster said:
JJ's last "proof of life" picture:

At this point he had lost his dad, been taken out of school, lost his service dog, moved to Rexburg and his sister wasn't around do I have that right? This is like the last? Hadn't seen grandma or his pawpaw or FTed with them on the phone or computer. For a child that probably needed stability more than most (and all do) all had been ripped away and changed. These POOR KIDS.

Probably no reason but I keep looking at all the cords in the background. And what is all that sh*t? Not saying it is relevant at all, it just keeps drawing my eye. By now Lori had not got her planned on million, somehow though managed to rent them all three apartments or maybe Mel helped or some such as she followed Lori and Alex as well...

Prior will likely say all three or at least Alex and Lori moved to Rexburg as SHE was chasing Chad. That's why he was okayt though being seen with her right walking the track at BYU where Tammy worked wasn't it all lovey dovey and isn't that where it was said by Lori Tylee was, going to BYU. And if she was chasing Chad why was he helping Alex with a load in a truck the day of the welfare check? And why is he seen on storage unit video with a jeep seat/tire, etc... Patting her butt. All activities related to the evil plans. Prior can say he is not part of Brandon's BUT he was there with the jeep thing/storage unit...

GrandmaBear · Apr 10, 2024

So I worked till past 9, it is now almost midnight and so far all I've done is finish Prior's opening statement and catch up on all the posts here. I now just went to find Nate's. From tonight. Didn't see it linked here so thought I'd add it for anyone who wants his summary for the day. Starts out with Larry Woodcock. Haven't watched it yet myself.

GrandmaBear · Apr 10, 2024

Okay. Help me out. Is Rob Wood wearing a black face mask? Did anyone watch video on this today? It isn't the best camera or angle but I think so. It is NOT a dark beard is it? But a face mask?
Nate said interesting Lindsey did the openings in Lori and Wood in Daybell. Maybe just a change but I wonder if it is same sex on same sex meaning a woman saying another woman is bad and a man saying another man of his own sex is bad, for more impact...?

Okay that has to be a mask. I haven't seen enough to know if all are wearing them or just him.

GrandmaBear · Apr 11, 2024

Okay so now I see Prior and he has no mask on. So it isn't a court rule.

GrandmaBear · Apr 11, 2024

So in a combination of hearing a bit of Linda, both openings and right now watching Nate, who has a clip of Prior on as I watch in his opening I am reminded that Prior kept his opening short and it was shorter than Wood's and pretty much to the point. Both openings were short in the history of openings and compared to Lori's.

Nate also pointed out in Lori's the opening by Lindsey Blake showed autopsy photos etc and was hard hitting but Wood used no similar things. He isn't saying one is better than another just noting the difference. Thought they maybe looked at it but rethought it but not sure. I don't know why they'd rethink it though, that trial ended in conviction so....? BUT maybe and I wouldn't know chat comments or jurors weren't happy with that... In Lori's? This is my question of why the difference. Maybe Blake was willing to go there and Wood isn't and it is a decision left to each in each case. Hard to say.

I'm not trying to go on but since I am watching Nate's summary, thought I'd link it and mention some things that I didn't read here already. Much has been covered already. these are things that I don't think were that Nate is talking of.

GrandmaBear · Apr 11, 2024

Okay now Nate is showing and pointing out what I mentioned above. First Prior says you are going to hear from the Daybell children, then four of he five children, then three or four I think... This may just be him unsure but it caught me immediately earlier and now he played this part of Prior saying it. Like oh don't make them think all when it's not, or corrrect it to four, or maybe it is three. It truly may be Prior himself isn't sure but I don't think so... Nate in only pulling some clips and this was one of them from each opening...

GrandmaBear · Apr 11, 2024

I also don't know if a slip means anything but Prior also at one point says her mother (at first I thought did you slip and it was Tammy's mom using oils and herbs and not Tammy) but in listening gain he says her mother than corrects it to their mother and that makes me think it is mainly a daughter talking of Tammy's maladies and herbs and such and so my guess would be he is thinking of what likely Emma said and not the boys.... JUST a guess on my part. Not Nate's. Nate isn't pointing out any such things, he is playing clips about the kids testifying etc... And of Prior saying how many kids will testify that is me taking it that way as well, not Nate.

GrandmaBear · Apr 11, 2024

Nate says in Lori's trial a Zumba instructor took the stand and said how Tammy had just been at her class just fine and was training for a run as well. Countering what the kid/s are going to testify to.
Nate points out something I never picked up on and that is that Prior said he has four experts but only named three unless Nate says he is considering the kids experts.

Nate also points out to remember if those kids take the stand that subjects them to cross examination. I already mentioned that above before watching a thing on it. That's a no brainer right?

He says this will give prosecutors finally a chance at a crack at the kids and to ask them what they want to ask. I am not sure I follow that entirely as the prosecutors could certainly subpoena the kids imo but perhaps it is better if Prior puts them up than they call ones that may know nothing but let Prior let them say they know something and then cross? I'd expect prosecution to at least have subpoenaed the one who was there when Tammy was DEAD though.

GrandmaBear · Apr 11, 2024

Still suggest watching this, I'm not sharing all but the key points.

Woods' statement was 22 minutes and Prior's 18. I think he is showing he can key in and be shorter lol. Actually I think he knows exactly what he is doing even when he drove people a bit up a wall during jury selection... I don't often say that but in his case I do. He knows when to do what... Never used all that glitters is not gold yet either which all expected and so he is reading I'd say online stuff and/or listening to news...

GrandmaBear · Apr 11, 2024

So they broke for lunch and Nate ran into Tammy's aunt Vicky Hoban [sp?] and she did not know 'chad's kids were going to testify until hearing that and not what they were going to testify on. Hang on, I am going back and forth.

GrandmaBear · Apr 11, 2024

She is at just after 27 minutes in an interview by Nate with her. I'm not going to cover all but she said it made her sad when she heard the kids were going to testify and what they were going to testify to. (she said things about other things too but I am highlighting this and he interview is only moments if some want to watch her whole short interview) and she said how Tammy had been just to her folks' home and was doing AWESOME so... And then she stopped herself from judging the kids and said she should wait to see what they have to say and she loves them and they are family. I don't think it is even a minute long with questions I about the day overall too and her thoughts....

Anyhow I am just sharing what I think is different than what I read here or was in tweets and so on like Nate's interview at lunch with her. To add anything not heard or known.

Also going to take a moment and say Nate is something and in for a lot of long week's ahead, attends all day, does lunch interview and a nightly recap and kudos to those covering so fully. Linda is not there (by the way she is HOPING to go for some WOW) but ha so far committed to covering every live moment etc. Even thought it is live and if we all had time we could watch every moment ourselves (who can?) these doing so and covering all and summarizing are so wonderful. And watching various things gives you like this did an interview with Tammy's aunt hat would never be seen even if one watched every moment of the trial.

Not sure I will make it through all. I've had a long tough week. Past midnight by far and I hate it when I start the first day off having worked til late the night before. It takes at least half the day off o rmore to recover from the week.

Anyhow, if not, I will finish Nate in the morning before trial starts late per our times and Boyce's way of never starting on time lol. Watch that not happen tomorrow.... Lol. And I'll have to play it in the background while doing a TON of other things and shut it off for some phone calls, etc.

Here's to another part of justice for TAMMY, TYLEE and JJ coming soon.

GrandmaBear · Apr 11, 2024

Took a need break. Starving. Long day. Etc.

Did we KNOW about these things from the search warrants? Maybe? Did we hear it in Lori's? Of course in that one it wasn't live and I think three trials were going on, etc. and not sure who followed how close. Or even know it before years ago? As someone said earlier all the dates, PDs, crimes, players and otherwise in tis case makes it hard to keep all straight. This case may well be the one of many that stuffed too much into the head to where it spilled out the other side and has kept it going ever since in every case where I used to be like an elephant with memory not all that long ago.

So Nate is talking of they couldn't reach Lori, etc. and so they got a search warrant and kicked in the door and what they found. Not all is like crime related but like all these hangers in closets that were like someone swooped in and took all the clothes offf them and lit out in a hurry. Something about a 72 hour something I replayed and still didn't follow or all these 72 hour things or some such.
Hearing the fleeing and rushing off brings me back to what I thought earlier. I take perverse pleasure in these monsters were under dress and panic. And really never got a chance at their perception of their solo paradise where they ran all and the world and universe while beaching it and controlling from Hawaii or wherever with tons of money.

GrandmaBear · Apr 11, 2024

FBI gets involved and Natl Missing Center for Exploited Children, never one did they call and say their kids were missing... Rewards being offered, tips coming in. I think (tired so don't count on it) this is all still from Hermasillo...

GrandmaBear · Apr 11, 2024

Yep, still Hermasillo.

Tresir · Apr 11, 2024

GrandmaBear said:
And didn't have her number when he did. Such a liar and not ta good one. Didn't know his own wife. INTIMATELY know and I don't mean just sexually they were also at that point partners in crime and the planning of the murders of the kids and the upcoming one on Tammy and I believe in every part of me he knew and was part of the plan on Charles as well. Just as he wasn't there with Charles, Lori likely wasn't present at Tammy's and I think this was for what are obvious reasons. That would be impossible to explain.

Yes Tammy was dead too at this point in November right? I was getting a bit confused when this search took place but Kimster clarified it was 26th November.

What do you think that he hasn't been charged with anything to do with Charles?

JOSHUA "JJ" VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN, TAMMY DAYBELL, & CHARLES VALLOW: State of Idaho/Arizona vs. Lori & Chad Daybell *GUILTY*

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JOSHUA "JJ" VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN, TAMMY DAYBELL, & CHARLES VALLOW: State of Idaho/Arizona vs. Lori & Chad Daybell GUILTY