Day 2- 8th April 2025
LIVE UPDATES: Another juror dismissed in Lori Vallow Daybell trial, day 2 resumes with witness testimony
Published at 11:27 am, April 8, 2025Updated at 5:34 pm, April 8, 2025
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Lori Vallow Daybell is on trial in Maricopa County, Arizona, on one charge of conspiracy to commit the murder of Charles Vallow, her fourth husband. Nate Eaton is live in the courtroom with updates. Please excuse any typos. Times listed below are in Mountain Standard Time, so they are an hour behind Idaho. (Arizona does not observe Daylight Saving Time.) The most recent updates are at the top.
4:34 p.m. Court is now adjourned.
4:32 p.m. Treena says the defense sent some subpoenas to detectives saying they need to appear tomorrow. There was no phone number on them, according to Treena. Judge asks who the detectives should call to find out when they need to testify. Lori says her investigator. Those witnesses can call the investigator. Lori says they don’t need to report tomorrow.
4:31 p.m. Judge asks Lori to identify the photos she will need before tomorrow morning. “You have the habit of when a witness answers a question to add something to the end of their answer – like I wasn’t aware of that or I don’t know much about guns. On previous witnesses, you say that’s what I recall. When you say that, it’s a form of testifying. I’m going to caution against that,” Judge says.
4:29 p.m. Lori is done asking questions for the day. We are taking the recess until tomorrow. Join me tonight on “Courtroom Insider” to break it all down tonight at 8 p.m. MT on the East Idaho News YouTube channel.
4:27 p.m. Lori asks Coons about him observing the autopsy and whether there was stippling. He doesn’t recall if it was on the coroner’s report. Lori asks if stippling was found, how far would it be from the victim. He says he is not an expert on stippling patterns and would need to check with the lab.
4:25 p.m. Lori asks questions about whether Alex moved and then asks to have a minute.
4:23 p.m. Lori is back at the lectern and asks where he would place the shooter in the room. “For which shot?” he replies. “The first one,” Lori says. Coons replies in a more eastern direction. For the second shot, it was more northern.
4:21 p.m. Sidebar now. White noise is played and parties get on headsets.
4:20 p.m. Lori asks if Coons walked through the house with Alex. He did. Lori asks if he observed Alex standing in the room where he said he obtained the gun. She asks about Alex’s interactions with the officer and Treena objects based on hearsay. The judge sustains the objections.
4:19 p.m. Lori asks if there were divots in the wall. He says there could have been microscopic divots, but he did not see anything that caught his eye.
4:18 p.m. Lori asks how close the wall the shells were found. Coons says inches. Lori asks if that’s a normal trajectory from hitting the wall to where they landed. “I am not surprised to see that,” Coon says.
4:16 p.m. Lori asks if guns that are 45s could shoot to the left. Coons says the way this particular gun was set up, it shoots to the right. You could have a gun set up to shoot to the left, but that was not the case in Charles’ shooting.
4:15 p.m. Lori asks if he was teaching a novice, would he teach them to shoot center mass. He says no. He would teach them to shoot until the threat went away. Lori says, “Ok.”
4:14 p.m. “When you’re taking a gun class, is it common that they tell you to shoot center mass – is that a common term?” Lori asks. Coons says that is what they train for as police officers. “If you were being attacked, you should point at center mass, correct?” Lori asks. Coons says yes.
4:13 p.m. Lori asks about the type of weapon being found – a 45 caliber. She asks what the difference is between this gun and a revolver. Coons says a revolver is like a “wheel gun” from a western movie. Police officers these days carry semiautomatic.
4:10 p.m. Coons left the house between 4-4:30 p.m. Lori asks what other tasks he did between 12-4:30 p.m. “I just don’t know what you were doing,” she says. He says they were looking for other evidence items, taking measurements, waiting for medical examiner.
4:09 p.m. Investigators work with crime scene techs on the investigation, Coons says. “Makes sense,” Lori responds. She asks what else they did at the house. He says his day involved the scene – it was spent at the house.
4:08 p.m. Coons rarely looks at his watch to see how much time he’s spending on something because he wants to do his job, not worry about how much time it’s taking. He did not pick up most of the evidence – they normally defer to crime scene techs to do it.
4:07 p.m. Lori asks if the detectives all went to the same rooms or if they split things up. Coons says they divided and conquered. Lori asks how long it took to take the photos. “I don’t ever look at my watch because it’s a big house, as you’re aware, and it’s a big job,” he responds. They started taking photos around noon.
4:05 p.m. They got the warrant back and entered the home around 11:30-11:45 a.m. Coons entered the house with the crime scene tech and perhaps Det. Duncan. “That would have been the extent of the initial people who went in.” After that, the crew went with the normal process of taking photos, LizardQ, getting information for diagram and “kept doing our job.”
4:03 p.m. Coons says when he arrived that day, they debriefed and came up with a plan about the investigation. Lori asks what other detectives were there. He names a few and says he didn’t take a roll call. Lori asks where he went after the debriefing. Coons says he gave information to a detective back at the police station so he could obtain a search warrant. They then waited for the search warrant.
4:02 p.m. Lori asks when Coons wrote his report on the shooting incident. He doesn’t recall when he specifically started typing it. “Within a week, maybe?” Lori says. Coons doesn’t remember. Lori asks who was at the scene when he arrived that day. He says patrol officers, Alex Cox and perhaps the fire department.
4:01 p.m. Lori begins by asking if Coons was the scene agent that day. He says yes. Lori asked if he worked for other places before he was a police officer. He was in the military, Dept. of Corrections, a few other jobs.
4 p.m. Lori will be using some photo exhibits during her cross-examination.
3:58 p.m. Lori is back with a smile on her face. Judge says, “All set?” She says yes. Lori moves to the podium and the jurors will be brought back in.
3:57 p.m. Unclear why Lori has left. Her defense advisors, the judge and prosecution remain in the room.
3:56 p.m. Judge needs to excuse the jury to resolve something. He has them go to the jury room. Lori just left the courtroom.
3:55 p.m. Lori requests a sidebar. Headphones and mics are put on. White noise is played in the courtroom.
3:54 p.m. “Your honor, this is an important cross and I don’t want to get interrupted by it,” Lori says. Beresky says, “We have over a half hour so we’re going to get started.” Lori says, “Ok.”
3:52 p.m. Coons left the house around 4:30 p.m. and that ended his involvement in processing the scene. Treena has no further questions. Lori asks for a few minutes to confer with her advisory counsel. Judge says “briefly.”
3:51 p.m. Coons describes the entrance and exit wounds and the projectile going into the baseboard.
3:49 p.m. Coons says the autopsy further supported his belief that Charles was shot while he was lying on the ground.
3:47 p.m. Coons attended Charles’ autopsy. He watched through a window and communicated with a phone on the wall to the medical examiner in the room on the other side of the glass.
3:45 p.m. Coons says measurements were taken of the body before it was moved.
3:42 p.m. Two entrance wounds, two exit wounds, Coons says. He describes the trajectory of the bullet that embedded the bullet into the baseboard of the room. The bullet went through Charles and ended up in the baseboard, Coons says.
3:41 p.m. There was a bullet in the sternum and one in the abdomen area. Coons observed a gunshot wound to the left of his spine and one on the left shoulder blade/scapula area.
3:40 p.m. Coons talks about the gunshot wounds on Charles Vallow’s body. When he arrives at scenes, he relies on what he has learned and the information he gathers to figure out what happened.
3:39 p.m. There were no trails, no swipes of blood anywhere other than on the sink faucet in the kitchen and the area where the body was, Coons says.
3:37 p.m. Treena continues to show photos of inside the house – laundry room, bathroom, etc. None of the rooms had any blood evidence. None of the trash cans had any blood evidence. Now we see photos of the master bedroom with an office setup. No blood evidence.
3:36 p.m. Coons looked throughout the house for anything relevant because they have one chance to gather evidence and critical information right after the alleged crime occurred.
3:34 p.m. Treena shows multiple photos of the house, including bedrooms and sinks and other rooms. She asks Coons if he observed blood anywhere in the house. He says no. We see a photo of a garbage can in the kitchen. There are no bloody towels or anything with blood in the trashcan.
3:29 p.m. Treena shows a photo showing an entrance to a room with blue walls and the other has an entrance to a hallway. Coons says there was nothing bloody in the rooms.
3:26 p.m. Treena moves to admit the gun and the gun box into evidence. No objection from Lori.
3:23 p.m. When police seized the gun, they removed the magazine to make it safe. There was one live round in the weapon that they were able to remove. We see another photo of an orange duffle bag. Inside the bag was a gun box consistent with the firearm lying on the floor. Also in the orange bag were some cartridges and baby wipes.
3:20 p.m. Back in court. Treena Kay continues to show photos of the house and the gun Alex Cox used to shoot Charles Vallow. There are multiple photos and we see the magazine of the gun.
2:57 p.m. Time for our afternoon recess. Back in 15 minutes.
2:56 p.m. That portion of the floor was removed “with great pain” and Treena shows a photo of the floor that has been removed. Treena now holds up a bag showing the piece of the floor. She shows it to Lori, who inspects it. The piece of wood is now walked to the witness stand for Coons to take a look.
2:55 p.m. Coons says the marking in the floor was consistent with a bullet strike.
2:54 p.m. Photos of the floor are shown with placard #13 showing a defect in the wooden floor. Treena shows other photos showing defects in the ground. One shows a bigger gap in the floor that was directly underneath the shoulder of Charles where they observed an exit wound.
2:52 p.m. We now see a photo of what the room looked like after Charles’ body was removed. We see blood on the floor.
2:51 p.m. Treena moves to admit two exhibits. They are the actual casings from the room. She asks if the police move the body when they process the scene. Coons say no. They need to wait for someone from the medical examiner’s office to move the body.o Police are present when they show up to move the body.
2:48 p.m. Treena shows more photos of the bullet casing and placards marking them inside the home.
2:46 p.m. We see an image of a headstamp – the opposite end of the actual projective inserted into the casing. Coons explains how the projectile is shot through the barrel of a gun. The casing is what’s left of the cartridge – it holds the powder charge, primer and projectile all in one unit.
2:45 p.m. Coons says there was no blood on the floor around Charles’ body. There was blood pooling underneath him, but not around him. Placard #5 shows a shell casing at the scene and #46 and #47 belonged to a 45 automatic pistol, Coons says.
2:43 p.m. Coons did not see any blood on Charles’ arm or other extremities. There was a little bit of blood on his chest. Treena points out on the photo where the blood is.
2:41 p.m. Treena moves to admit a photo of a projectile found close to Charles’ body.
2:40 p.m. Item #4 shown on the screen is a metal projectile from a bullet. It was recovered northeast of Charles Vallow’s body. Coons says there was some deformation to the projectile.
2:40 p.m. Treena moves to admit the actual bat. It’s wrapped in plastic.
2:38 p.m. Treena moves to admit two other photos. The baseball bat is marked #3. Other photos show the “fat edge” of the bat – not the handle. Coons says they were looking for visible evidence on the bat. He did not observe any. Visibly he did not see any biological evidence on the bat.
2:36 p.m. The next photo shows a bullet in the hand of someone wearing a blue glove.
2:35 p.m. The next photo shows a bullet strike in the baseboard. Another picture is shown that’s much closer. You can see the bullet lodged in the baseboard. Part of the baseboard was pulled back so you can see the projective lodged in the wood.
2:32 p.m. We now see a closeup photo of a Reebok hat that is on the ground next to the #1 placard.
2:31 p.m. Coons describes the next photo that shows a hallway in the house that extends to two bedrooms and a bathroom. Another photo shows a different angle of the house with Charles’ body on the ground. There are multiple angles from inside the house.
2:30 p.m. The hat has a placard of #1. We now see a photo of the northwest corner of the room looking south. We see a pair of flip-flops and Charles’ body on the floor. Treena asks Coons to describe the wall with a mirror in the room.
2:28 p.m. The picture of the front of the scene is back on the screen. Two more exhibits are shown of Alex’s pickup truck parked in the driveway. The next few exhibits show the front door and a hat on the floor of the front room.
2:27 p.m. Judge has completed reviewing the photos. He will admit the exhibits and says they will assist the jury in visualizing the scene and determining where things were at the scene.
2:26 p.m. As judge reviews the photos, many of the jurors stare ahead. One has his eyes closed.
2:22 p.m. Judge asks to look through the photos.
2:20 p.m. Coons says when they photograph a home, they typically start on the outside. We now see an exterior shot of the home. It’s the main entrance and a piece of yellow crime scene tape stretches from a truck to the front door. Lori objects and says she has not agreed to admit any of the photos. Treena moves to admit the photos. Lori objects to having all of them admitted – says there are some that should not be admitted.
2:19 p.m. Coons says the entire residence is photographed because you don’t know at the time what will be relevant or irrelevant.
2:18 p.m. Treena shows the diagram on the screen again and points out placard #1. Coons says some items of evidence were cut out and brought back to the department.
2:16 p.m. Everything is photographed. Coons says he wears gloves when collecting evidence. They use them and will change them to not transfer blood, etc. The crime scene techs will photograph the items, change gloves, place the evidence in envelopes and then move onto the next item.
2:15 p.m. Coons explains how items are taken into evidence and how they are documented, assigned a number, etc.
2:13 p.m. Coons has reviewed all the photos. He says they accurately depict the house on the day of the shooting. Lori will now be shown the photos.
2:09 p.m. As the officer looks at the photos, Treena begins taking items wrapped in shrink wrap from a tote. One of the items is the baseball bat that was inside the home.
2:08 p.m. Treena now moves to admit over 100 photographs.
2:06 p.m. Treena asks Coons if he still uses photographs at scenes. “100%.” He says if you use the LizardQ, you are restricted to the view from the camera. Overall photography lets you take pictures all over.
2:05 p.m. We now see another point of view from the camera that is higher up in the room. The camera stops over Charles’ body. Coons now goes back to the witness stand but the image remains on screen.
2:03 p.m. The bat is lying near Charles’ body. He is holding a baseball car. His body is in front of a mirror.
2:02 p.m. Kay Woodcock just walked out of the courtroom with a victim advocate. These images will be graphic.
2 p.m. Coons explains how the computer system works and how you open up the images. He now shows us the camera moving around the room. We see Charles Vallow lying dead on the floor.
1:58 p.m. The name of the camera system is LizardQ. Treena moves to admit a hard drive as an exhibit showing the images. No objection. Treena asks if witness can leave the stand to operate the LizardQ system. Judge says yes.
1:56 p.m. Treena asks if police utilize a photography system to help better document a scene. Coons says depending on the scene, they use a 360-degree photographic system that is set up on a tripod. An internal computer for the system takes a set number of photos at various locations along the path to create overlapping images that create a 360-sphere of the scene.
1:55 p.m. The diagram shows reference points with a body lying on the ground drawn in the middle. Next to the body is a bat. There are yellow markers on the diagram.
1:53 p.m. We see the exhibit on the screen. It’s not to scale. The exhibit is a view from the top of the room/ceiling. The second page is a list of items in the room with reference points.
1:51 p.m. Coons talks about the importance of capturing the scene as it is before they walk in. He created a diagram to reflect what the scene looked like. Treena introduces an exhibit.
1:49 p.m. Other detectives arrived at the scene. Coons was assigned the scene, meaning he was responsible for making sure the scene is processed properly. He needed to accumulate evidence and report back to the case agent.
1:47 p.m. The detectives carry a caseload and work to try and solve them. On July 11, Coons heard police radio traffic of a shooting. After gathering some equipment, Coons responded to the scene. There were police vehicles and officers who had put up crime scene tape. “They basically had frozen the scene,” he says.
1:46 p.m. Treena asked if Coons has used the skills he learned in the course during his work as a police officer. He has. Coons was working in the Chandler Police homicide unit on July 11, 2019. He worked M-Th from 7-5.
1:43 p.m. Treena asks Coons if he ever became a shooting reconstruction expert. He did. He attended a 40- hour course that was hands-on and at the end, there was a test he had to pass to get certified.
1:42 p.m. Treena asks about Coons’ training with SWAT. He was cross-trained to be a sniper and regular entry officer-type stuff. He eventually became a sniper instructor. He talks about what that entailed.
1:40 p.m. Coons is sworn in. He was a detective with the Chandler Police Department and worked at the department for over 30 years. He explains his training.
1:39 p.m. Jury is seated. Next witness is Daniel Coons. Treena Kay brings out a tote full of items wrapped in plastic wrap.
1:36 p.m. Judge asks Treena if she intends to ask the witness about what shot was first versus what shot was second. She responds that the issue will come up as Coons attended the autopsy. “I don’t think your medical expert could say which shot was first or second,” Judge says. He is allowing the witness in but tells Lori she is free to ask him questions. Lori says she does not understand how the shot order is relevant to conspiracy.
1:34 p.m. “This type of testimony is what a lot of people have experience with guns could have an opinion on. You can cross-examine him on his knowledge, training and experience,” Beresky says. He is allowing the witness in. Treena Kay says the defense was able to interview Coons in March and could have questioned him about his experience.
1:33 p.m. Judge says he’s inclined to allow Coons to testify as an expert because he has training and experience that can assist the jury in making a decision. Beresky tells Lori she is free to cross-examine and question him.
1:31 p.m. Lori asks about the calling of the next witness. It’s Daniel Coons with the Chandler Police Department. She wants to know if he’s testifying as an expert or as a police officer. She says this is an issue that was never resolved last week. Jurors will remain out of the courtroom. Lori feels the state is just putting him on as an expert to give his opinion rather than the facts. Lori says she was not given enough time to get someone to rebuttal his opinion.
1:30 p.m. Juror tells the judge he was texting his daughter and was not looking at anything on his phone. Judge tells him to turn his phone off. The rest of the jury will now be brought into the courtroom.
1:29 p.m. We are back in court. Treena Kay raises a concern that a juror was looking at their phone during prior testimony and then submitted a very detailed question to the judge. Beresky is calling in the juror.
12:21 p.m. Lori says the state didn’t have everything over from the technology downloads and request a separate hearing. Judge says he will think about it and maybe have a hearing on Friday. We are now dismissed for lunch.
12:18 p.m. Beresky says it’s more like a discovey request, not a violation. Lori says she would agree with him. “The problem that we have here is the software and those things were available and they were not handed over from the state.” Unclear all the specifics of what she is talking about. Lori says the complete downloads were never given – just reports.
12:16 p.m. This motion deals with Lonnie Dworkin, Lori’s expert witness. Treena says we need to know what he is permitted or able to bring into the trial. Judge asks Lori if she wants to argue the motion right now. Lori says no. Judge says, “When do you want to argue it?” Lori says, “Do you want me to argue it right now?” Judge says there does not appear to be a discovery violation.
12:15 p.m. Before we go, Treena says a motion Lori filed yesterday needs to be discussed at one point. Apparently it was a motion about a discovery violation.
12:14 p.m. Keller says ultimately as a paramedic they have the authority to end life-saving measures. No further questions. Time for lunch. See you at 1:30 p.m.
12:12 p.m. Treena follows up about contacting a physician. Keller says sometimes physicians are patched in – not if someone is in code – but they would contact a physician to let them know what treatment was given and what will be given as the patient is transported to the hospital.
12:11 p.m. Treena follows up with questions about using a drug to get a heart started. It’s a different situation in a trauma versus a heart attack. ACLS stands for Advanced Cardiac Life Support.
12:07 p.m. Judge reads the juror questions. “Was there any attempt to give drug like ephedrine to the patient?” Keller says no, in trauma situations it wouldn’t work. Another question: Was ACLS protocol followed? Yes. Judge reads the third question: Was a physician patched in? No. It was part of their training to determine viability. Another question: Are firefighters allowed to determine time of death?” Keller: They are authorized to stop life-saving measures.
12:06 p.m. Judge is talking with Treena and Lori via headset. Will see if we get to hear the juror question.
12:02 p.m. Keller says ultimately it’s his opinion that CPR was not given to Charles before firefighters arrived. Treena has no further questions. The jury has at least one question. White noise is played in the courtroom.
12:01 p.m. Keller says the mechanical reaction of compressions would have spread blood. There was no blood other than the pooling blood below Charles’ body.
12 noon Treena asks what else can tell if CPR was given to a patient. “The best way would be witness CPR,” Keller says. Other ways include an indentation in the chest – the sternum would likely have been cracked loose from the rib cage and there would be, in the case of trauma, increased bleeding.
(Day 2 pm)
11:59 a.m. Treena has re-direct questions. “What do you see first – modeling or lividity when the heart stops?” Keller says modeling. Lividity is something you see much later. Treena asks if he’s treated people before a few minutes after their heart stops and if you see lividity or modeling in those people. Keller says no.
11:58 a.m. “Do you know for a fact that CPR had not been given?” Lori asks. “I do not know for a fact,” Keller responds. Lori has no further questions.
11:57 a.m. Lori asks about the radio process – who is speaking on the radio, dispatchers, etc. Keller was not aware that Alex had been asked to go outside. “You just saw him outside but did not know the 911 operator told him to go outside.” Keller responds that he did not know who Alex was or how he was involved in the scene.
11:55 a.m. Lori asks if modeling could have happened after just a few minutes. Keller says he doesn’t know. Lori asks about lividity and whether it was advancing. “He had lividity on the back of his torso,” Keller responds. Lori asks if lividty happens immediately after the heart stops. He says he supposes it does. Lori asks if medication would affect lividity. Keller says he can’t say.
11:54 a.m. Lori asks about skin modeling and if it would increase as time goes on. Keller says it’s a progress. Lori asks if Charles’ skin was in late or early phases of modeling. He can’t say. He doesn’t know how long it had been in effect.
11:53 a.m. Lori asks if any instruments are used to obtain body temperatures. He says no. Lori asks if that might help give a more appropriate time of death. Keller says it wouldn’t help him as he has not been trained on it.
11:52 a.m. Lori asks Capt. Keller if he was first on the scene. He says police arrived first, but he was first firefighter on scene. Lori asks him to describe what staging is. Keller says it’s when firefighters go to a place of safety close to the scene where they could wait until the scene is safe before they enter the scene.
11:50 a.m. Keller overheard someone talking about not being invited to the pool party because of the commotion at the house. Treena asks if Keller believes Charles was dead before they entered the house. He says yes and it was highly unlikely that anyone had performed CPR on Charles prior to fire arriving. Treena has no further questions. Lori will now question.
11:48 a.m. Keller says the person outside did not appear to be injured. Treena asked if he appeared to be injured, would Keller have given medical help? Keller says, “Of course.” Treena asks if there was a woman with a young woman at the scene and if he sees them in the courtroom. Keller says he sees the adult and describes Lori at the defense table.
11:47 a.m. Once life-saving measures were done, defibrillator pads were left on Charles’ body. Treena asks Keller if he notified a man who were outside talking with police officers. Keller did – said there was a male talking with an officer.
11:46 a.m. Treena asks who decides to end life-saving measures. Keller says he does, as well as the rest of the crew. Scott Cowden agreed to end life-saving measures so they stopped working on Charles.
11:44 a.m. Firefighters “increased the amount of blood under the patient by doing CPR,” Keller says. There was no active bleeding, signifying no heartbeat.
11:43 a.m. The heart monitor showed no electrical rhythm to the heart. Treena asks if they ever look at the patient’s pupils. They did and Charles’ pupils were fixed – they did not react.
11:42 a.m. Treena asks Keller when he checked the heart monitor. He says all of this happens at the same time. The patient is exposed, CPR starts, the rest of the evaluation happens. “A lot of it happens simultaneously.”
11:40 a.m. Keller says the firefighters would have cut Charles’ shirt, checked for gunshot sounds and given compression. Treena asked what they observed when they rolled Charles’ body. Charles had lividity and skin modeling. Treena asks what modeling it. “It’s sort of a patchy looking skin condition caused by not enough oxygen getting to the skin. It could have been from his heart not beating.” Lividity is the pooling of blood “and that takes longer. Much longer.” Blood begins to leave the tissues and drain to the lowest part of the body.
11:38 a.m. Charles had no pulse and was not breathing. “If he’s not breathing and you don’t see that he has a pulse, why begin CPR?” Keller says, “You don’t know how long he hasn’t been breathing or not had a pulse. He could have just stopped those things moments before we got there.”
11:36 a.m. Keller says you would remove a patient’s shirt to check for exit wounds, gunshot wounds, etc. You need to expose the patient to make sure you catch everything.
11:35 a.m. Keller says had adequate CPR been given, he would have expected more blood on Charles and under him. “I didn’t see any blood when we first got there,” he says.
11:34 a.m. Keller says Charles was a big guy and says he had a small amount of blood. Treena Kay shows the exhibit of Charles’ head on the ground. The blood is pooling around Charles’ collarbone. Keller says Charles appeared to be fit.
11:33 a.m. Charles was laying on his back. His head was toward the door the crew entered. His arms and hands were to his sides. Charles had a gunshot wound to his center chest, a hole in his shirt and a small amount of blood.
11:32 a.m. Once the crew started assessing Charles’ body, he saw a spent bullet round on the floor. He didn’t initially see it but did eventually. There was at least one officer clearing the house/going through the house at the time.
11:30 a.m. Keller remembers the house being empty so they had a clear path to Charles. “I remember thinking there was very little in this room other than the patient,” he says. The only thing Keller remembers being around Charles was a baseball bat and a ball cap.
11:26 a.m. Keller responded to the home on July 11, 2019. He talks about when a patient would get CPR and how firefighters would hope “good” CPR would be given to patients to get blood pumping.
11:25 a.m. As Keller’s crew works on a patient, they try to limit impacting a scene. Their job is to determine if treatment is necessary and then do that treatment regardless.
11:23 a.m. Keller’s responsibility is scene safety and to make sure his crew can provide help to the injured. One person is charting – the person in charge of the call who focuses on “big picture.” The other three are helping directly with the patient.
11:22 a.m. Treena asks what a fire crew normally does when responding to a person with a gunshot. He says they arrive at the scene and stage at a safe area. They are on the radio with dispatch and police on their way to the scene. Chandler police will let fire crews know when it’s safe for them to enter the scene.
11:21 a.m. Keller went to paramedic school in 1991 and went through continuing education classes to stay up to date on training. Keller says the biggest difference between an EMT and a paramedic is basic treatments. Paramedics are trained with more abilities to provide care.
11:20 a.m. Keller retired as a captain from the department a few years ago. He worked at the department for 32 years. He was in charge of a four-person crew and responded to calls for service.
11:19 a.m. Next witness is Kent Keller from the Chandler Fire Department.
11:18 a.m. The witness is dismissed. State will call it’s next witness. Treena Kay leaves the courtroom to get the witness.
11:17 a.m. Cowden felt that CPR had not been done before they arrived. Treena has no other questions. There is at least one juror question. Judge asks jurors to pass in their questions and now a sidebar to discuss.
11:16 a.m. Treena asks if there’s any reason why someone with a gunshot wound would not need blood to circulate through their body. He says no. Ultimately it wouldn’t matter if they caused more injuries because the goal is to get the heart pumping.
11:15 a.m. Treena asks, “When you guys are done and he’s called deceased, do you put his clothing back on or modify him in any way?” He says no. Treena says, “If his shirt was still around his neck, that’s how he would have been left?” Cowden says that’s correct.
11:14 a.m. 911 will instruct people how to perform CPR to get the blood flowing as firefighters are en route. Treena asks Cowden if he traded off CPR with someone else. He says no – he was the only one. He was doing CPR while another EMT was getting the heart monitor ready.
11:13 a.m. Treena asks Cowden if 911 has to regularly instruct people on how to perform CPR. He says he’s not sure he can answer that because he’s not 911. Treena asks if he’s heard 911 instructing people on the radio how to do CPR. He says he has.
11:12 a.m. Lori says you don’t always get the crack. Cowden says if it’s done forcefully enough, you will get the crack. Lori then says when the professionals come in, they can make the crack happen. He says that’s possible. Lori has no further questions.
11:10 a.m. Lori asks about the “crunch” when doing chest compressions. Cowden says you hear the sternum crack and compares it to cracking your knuckles. Lori asks how much pressure you’d have to apply to get the crack. He says that would vary depending on who is getting CPR. Lori asks about an adult male. Lori and Cowden start talking over each other and Beresky stops them. He asks Lori to ask the next question.
11:09 a.m. Lori asks if it’s possible to cause further damage in doing CPR when there is a wound in the chest. He says it’s possible, but ultimately the heart isn’t beating.
11:08 a.m. Lori returns to the podium and says, “Just a few more questions.”
11:07 a.m. Sidebar is over. Lori is whispering with her advisory attorney.
11:01 a.m. Lori asks Cowden if he’s spoken to the media about this case. Treena Kay objects on relevance. Judge asks Lori the relevance. She says she wants to know what he’s said about it. Judge calls for the sidebar. Headphones go on, white noise is played.
11 a.m. We are streaming video from the courtroom now
here.
10:58 a.m. Cowden explains the time it takes to drive to the scene, work with the patient, clean up the scene, take care of all the equipment and then drive away. Lori asks, “When you were done with the patient, were in the house or did you exit the house?” Cowden says they remove all their equipment from the house and then they go to the front of the truck where they clean all the equipment, stock up the truck and be ready to respond to another call.
10:57 a.m. Cowden estimates he was at the scene for approximately 20-25 minutes. He drove into the scene and drove out of the scene. He clarifies that total on scene time was 20 minutes.
10:56 a.m. Lori asks Cowden if he wrote a report in relation to the incident. He says no. She says, “You don’t have to document anything?” Cowden responds that one person does the report.
10:54 a.m. Lori asks Cowden if he reviewed the audio from the 911 call in preparation for his testimony. He says no. Lori asks what he reviewed for today. Cowden says he reviewed his dispatch notes, his testimony from Idaho and other paper documentation.
10:54 a.m. Lori asks who announces the time of death. Cowden responds the captain – he’s the lead of the crew. Captain Keller called the time of death and documented it, according to Cowden.
10:52 a.m. Lori asks about the procedures Cowden took when giving CPR and the time it took to administer. She asks if the shirt was cut in the back to see the exit wounds. Cowden says the shirt was only cut once – on the side – and the shirt was likely removed from Charles’ body. Cowden didn’t personally remove the shirt, he was doing chest compressions, but believes one of his colleagues did.
10:48 a.m. Lori asks, “How long did you administer CPR before you did the flip over?” Cowden responds, “Before we rolled him to look at his back?” Lori says, “Yes.” Cowden says, “Maybe up to a minute.”
10:47 a.m. The video from the courtroom will begin streaming in about 10 minutes. You can watch
here.
10:46 a.m. Treena Kay objects to a question Lori asked. Judge sustains it, then says, “Next question.” Lori looks at him and says, “I got it, your honor.”
10:45 a.m. Lori says, “If you didn’t have the video, it might be difficult for a bunch of first-timers to know exactly what to do when given CPR. If you couldn’t show them and could only tell them, could it be difficult?” Cowden says that’s possible, depending on the person.
10:43 a.m. Lori asks about Cowden’s experience as a CPR instructor. He says he has taught hundreds of people who have never learned CPR. Lori asks about first-timers being taught the appropriate place to put their hands. “Do you show them or just tell them in class where to put their hands?” Lori says. Cowden says it’s a video-based curriculum.
10:42 a.m. Lori asks if special scissors were used. Cowden says trauma shears were used to cut the shirt off.
10:41 a.m. Lori asks the color of Charles’. He believes it was a dark-colored shirt. Lori asks about blood. Cowden recalls seeing blood on the chest. Lori asks how the procedure works when the shirt is cut off. Cowden says he continued giving CPR when one of his colleagues cut off the shirt.
10:40 a.m. Lori begins questioning Cowden. She asks what he did when he walked into the house. Cowden says he did an assessment of Charles that showed he was unresponsive and not breathing. Cowden began giving chest compressions. Cowden noticed there were two gunshot wounds in Charles’ shirt.
10:38 a.m. Chandler firefighter Scott Cowden is on the stand. FYI: the juror who was dismissed today was one of the three women on the jury. Two women remain in the group.
10:35 a.m. Beresky asks if the video was suggested on YouTube. Juror says it was an algorithm type thing. Treena has no follow up questions. Lori has no questions. Judge tells the juror to go back into the juror room. Beresky says he’s inclined to keep the juror on the jury as he doesn’t have independent or additional memory of the video. Treena Kay agrees to keeping him. Lori has no objection. The juror remains.
10:34 a.m. When the video was shown in court yesterday, the juror was reminded of the video. Treena Kay asks the juror if he recalls any of the audio from the video when he watched it outside of court. The juror does not remember. Yesterday very little audio was played in court.
10:32 a.m. Juror #16 is in the courtroom. He told the court staff that he may have seen a video related to the case on YouTube in the past. Judge asks if he has specific memories of being shown the video or what was in the video. He didn’t do any research on the video and was shown it from a friend on YouTube. That’s all he remembers.
10:31 a.m. Beresky says based on the sidebar, juror #4 is excused. We have two alternates remaining. Juror #16 will be brought in for individual questioning. There will be no media recording of the questioning.
10:27 a.m. Lori says some of her team is running behind. Judge Beresky says there is a juror issue that needs to be discussed in a sidebar. Prosecutor, defense and judge put on headphones as white noise is played in courtroom.
10:26 a.m. Day 2 of Lori Vallow Daybell’s trial is underway in Maricopa County. Lori just walked in wearing a navy blue dress suit. She is seated next to her advisory attorney. Treena Kay from the state is at the prosecutor’s table.
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