LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *GUILTY*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

1581272168478.png

Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


1581272119747.png


 
Last edited by a moderator:
I started digging around last night in Indiana Trial Code, Professional Conduct Code, Judge Handbooks, etc. Barely started looking. As much as we get emotionally involved, trial laws apply to this mess.
I"ve listened to someone who went into a lot about this stuff but i don't like some of his opinions on other things and find him one sided, newer channel to me and don't think I will keep it.

An example, he goes on and on about how we don't know anything as there was NO hearing before disqualification, etc. But then he says we need to accept it is a fact that Baldwin was no more than negligent. HUH?? He knows this how?

Anyhow, better you than me. Dry reading. No doubt the Judge is to follow rules but there is also separateness in some of this/separate issues. No matter her conduct it doesn't CHANGE the leak nor excuse it nor mean investigation and answers aren't still due and owing. Did she handle what happened correctly? Perhaps not, that is where they do tie together. And nothing about her behavior prior either means oh she isn't playing right, so we don't have to either, so let's leak this...

It is a MESS and people move onto the next one they all create before we have answers to the FIRST one and I believe that is caused intentionally to distract from what first happened, etc. At least in part.

The channel I talk of here have dissected what she has done wrong in more than one show. No doubt she has not been perfect but I also find them very one sided and slanting it at times. Example above and that is just one and I kept it simple with all the details which would show the hypocrisy of it.

Be interested to hear what you find in your reading. Doesn't sound like much fun to me but it does matter no doubt.
 
Found this. I do see in mycase where it was filed. This claims that Mitch Westerman would have testified Baldwin didn't know he (Mitch) had stolen images. Probably the info in the affidavit Gull has hidden. If this is accurate, all the more reason to sanction Baldwin for not adequately protecting evidence. As it is, Gull has delayed justice for an additional year and we're just hanging here waiting on this to be legally sorted.

 
JMHO:
The Court has a personality disorder. (i.e the Judge)
This mess happened b/c Gull didn't confront the Defense back in September, didn't insist they resubmit the Memo to the standard she expects; doesn't Control her Court; hides records rather than following records rules; she has all the power she needs to manage the attorneys in her Court but she chooses not to b/c she's a coward that would rather hold a grudge than confront a problem ... and asks the P if she should DQ his courtroom adversary. (C'mon!)
And that makes her passive-aggressive.
Consequently, Gull runs a lazy toxic court.
And it ends up in judicial overreach.
Go ahead. Change my mind.
 
Found this. I do see in mycase where it was filed. This claims that Mitch Westerman would have testified Baldwin didn't know he (Mitch) had stolen images. Probably the info in the affidavit Gull has hidden. If this is accurate, all the more reason to sanction Baldwin for not adequately protecting evidence. As it is, Gull has delayed justice for an additional year and we're just hanging here waiting on this to be legally sorted.


thank you for this Round Peg!
does Westerman admit in his affidavit that he stole the crime scene photos?
I guess - if Gull has hidden the Westerman affidavit - then all of that is her little secret.
JMO

adding ... this appears to be a brief list of witnesses in the courtroom yesterday ready to support B & R during a Disqualification hearing that Gull had no interest in conducting ... ever.

I did see another later filing from Hennessey to Gull's court that withdrew his "limited appearance" in her court citing he was leaving his appearance in her court due to "judicial overreach".

I suppose we may be waiting for an appeal on what transpired yesterday and Oct 19th etc..
Very cloak and dagger.

JMO some more
 
Last edited:
thank you for this Round Peg!
does Westerman admit in his affidavit that he stole the crime scene photos?
I guess - if Gull has hidden the Westerman affidavit - then all of that is her little secret.
JMO

adding ... this appears to be a brief list of witnesses in the courtroom yesterday ready to support B & R during a Disqualification hearing that Gull had no interest in conducting ... ever.

I did see another later filing from Hennessey to Gull's court that withdrew his "limited appearance" in her court citing he was leaving his appearance in her court due to "judicial overreach".

I suppose we may be waiting for an appeal on what transpired yesterday and Oct 19th etc..
Very cloak and dagger.

JMO some more
Supreme Court brief found here. 22 pages.

 
someone smarter than me said the court record Rozzi and Hennessey persistently, doggedly made happen yesterday is about RA's appeal.
Not only potentially an appeal on the firing of his lawyers and delaying his trial ... but an appeal after the trial if necessary for an unfair proceeding.
That one blew me away a bit. We're not in trial yet. But ... apparently Gull has now set RA up to be able to appeal his Trail results when they happen.
 
someone smarter than me said the court record Rozzi and Hennessey persistently, doggedly made happen yesterday is about RA's appeal.
Not only potentially an appeal on the firing of his lawyers and delaying his trial ... but an appeal after the trial if necessary for an unfair proceeding.
That one blew me away a bit. We're not in trial yet. But ... apparently Gull has now set RA up to be able to appeal his Trail results when they happen.
This whole prison thing is enough to get it looked at.
 
Footage of the families and Allen. Looks healthy enough to me. Wonder where the men in the families were.

I am still in the midst of watching it but so far, my thoughts are of course these attorneys should not be representing Allen, look what they DID. That cannot be risked. This was at LEAST the second time and she let the first one go with a warning . And it shouldn't be turned around on here, whatever her faults, that she caused this, their at minimum negligence did. They did this to Allen and personally I think at LEAST one was behind it. There was no reason in he77 there should have still been the possibility of such easy access and no good reason I've heard of that this guy should have had access or even been in their office.

I WORKED in TWO law firms. It has been decades but it sticks and sticks hard the security and rules and practices as it was a SERIOUS job, at least in the seriously ETHICAL firms I worked in. They don't take such rules or court orders etc. lightly but again these were ethical firms. This kind of sh*t did not go on BUT I did see unethical sh*t by opposing counsels and firms and there ya go... This quite simply would NEVER have happened where I worked. Security is key even without a case like this. Staff did not have entry keys and there were tons of other practices that ensured security. And he wasn't even staff! There is way too much here missing and for me the picture is clear.

HIS attorneys DID this to Allen, NOT the judge.

As to other complaints about her, I am watching and keeping my mind open but uhm SHE DID NOT LEAK the photos and cause this situation AND a sucidie and IF she did keep them on for now the at least SECOND time and they learn no lession and the next thing is even WORSE, she'd be big time in the doghouse.

Sorry but that's the way I see it. This man shouldn't have even been in this firm near anything!!
 
Okay, now I am listening to Vinnie's "think tank" of lawyers and first, all agree that Gull had to keep them off the case. ALL of them agree.

But the female attorney said what I just did, HER office is locked. Her file drawers are locked, etc., etc., etc., you keep things SECURE.
 
Okay, now I am listening to Vinnie's "think tank" of lawyers and first, all agree that Gull had to keep them off the case. ALL of them agree.

But the female attorney said what I just did, HER office is locked. Her file drawers are locked, etc., etc., etc., you keep things SECURE.
you really need to look at the video I've posted at 9:09 pm just above your comment here.
Vinnie's think tank know jack sugar ;)
 
Wienekelo is the law firm bringing the Alan case to the Supreme Court

"[O]ften the most important decision a defendant makes in shaping his defense is the selection of an attorney. In situations where a defendant is able to retain counsel privately, 'the choice of counsel rests in HIS hands, not in the hands of the State.'"
https://x.com/Wienekelo/status/1719834314462908871?s=20


"Although not an absolute right, the right to counsel of one's choice is not one with which courts should be eager to interfere . . . ." Latta v. State, 743 N.E.2d 1121, 1131 (Ind. 2001).



The error is "structural," meaning it affects the entire trial proceeding. And the violation occurs at the moment a defendant's choice of counsel is wrongfully denied. Id.
https://x.com/Wienekelo/status/1719847661669355827?s=20


"Deprivation of the right [to counsel of one's choice] is 'complete' when the defendant is erroneously prevented from being represented by the lawyer he wants, regardless of the quality of the representation he received." U.S. v. Gonzalez-Lopez, 548 U.S. 140 (2006).
https://x.com/Wienekelo/status/1719846880085991667?s=20


wthr.com/delphi
 
you really need to look at the video I've posted at 9:09 pm just above your comment here.
Vinnie's think tank know jack sugar ;)
Well I am going down for the count soon but will try to but i the meantime I will say I am not the fan of Vinnie and the Think Tank that the guy who thinks he owns the folding chair is. Same with News Nation and Law and Crime, etc. I feel I watch better and read better than those that run these... That isn't to says I never watch a new one or someone not as stellar just as you watched MS etc.

Court TV and Vinnie is well what it is. I bring it for those that think YT or podcasters are a joke but would watch Court TV which by the way when I bring it I get it from YT. I know a fair handful will watch that and not other things.

Court TV and Vinnie are trying hard to compete, stay in the race and not become irrelevant. I have to give 'em that and it works for types that haven't realized thee is better out there.

Remind me which one to watch of yours if you can some time tomorrow. Been a long haul of a day for me.
 
i'm sorry everyone
don't think I'm rooting for a killer
i just have an allergy to the judge on this case. 🤧
no control of her Court early on here ...
she ain't up to it.
I have an allergy to the defense and am feeling one may come on too her, we shall see, but am not happy with just about everyone in this case. Whatever you think of her, I could go down so many avenues in this case and even just on her alone... One is she is a female judge in CARROLL COUNTY INDIANA. Have ya ever heard of the Good Ol' Boys Clubs that largely exist in tons of places yet in the US? She is a judge, do you have any idea with what to this day a female attorney has to deal with much less a judge? There are a few if not ten things they have to do and ways they have to play just to survive. A subject actually for a thread or for another day for sure but I will be all I own (not much) on the fact this plays in as do politics and that's JUST the start of it all.

That aside, her letting them slide once with warning isn't much different than most likely any judge would have done. I was NOT happy when she did so but the alternatives one has to admit and early on were not great either. She came down on them hard now and for good and look at the people they are gathering and what they are doing and filing. GOB Club or more than that....? I 100 percent agree they HAVE to go. I do not, for ONE HOT MINUTE, believe Baldwin had nothing to do with this and was not behind it. I have NOT excused Rozzi but it is harder to say. I also do NOT believe this is all for their belief in Allen's innocence NOR their care for him. These are the attorneys who couldn't meet with him much and cried about how far it was to drive to do so. Attorneys drive for miles in cases ALL of the time to various counties for court and more. The POINT is I do not believe the reason so many are quick to assume and tout that the pro bono offer is because RA has become their most beloved and innocent client of all time.

When THEY filed the Franks thing, they ENSURED it would hit the public and possibly be disseminated BEFORE a thing could be done and this is MUCH as what happened with these photos or they HOPED would. For me, it is all so very obvious as is timing with most all of it. One of them at least is a lawyer gone rogue or is a rogue lawyer and it has nothing to do with control of her courtroom.

There is bigger going on here behind it all if you ask me. When Baldwin told journalists the other day they need to start being journalists oh yeah he was sooo right but NOT on their behalf as actually many have been doing but on how this kind of thing is going to destroy and turn upside down the entire system, as imperfect as it is, you CANNOT have this kind of thing going on or allowed.

Prosecutor remarked on untruths and the fact the Franks memo was all theory and speculation driven and not fact driven or written as such a doc should be. On top of it they NAMED people and SAID they did it. They didn't just say they possibly did, they said they DID.

There are a ton of things here that can be picked at and gone into in the entire case and with just Gull too. I am trying hard not to sidetrack on "my" week's end with an appt. early this morning when I really needed to sleep in than get dressed and ready and go for the umpteenth day in a row and am just trying to catch up a bit.

People need to step out of the defense blizzard, actually a duo or trio or more of them one after the other and just look at one thing. Or another. Separate things.

FIRST off is they need to go. You cannot as a judge leave unethical attorneys to represent a defendant, that let's remember, the COURT appointed no less even if Allen says he wants them. Well of COURSE he does. Not to mention I'd like to know that conversation but of course we cannot and never will but I can only imagine. Plus he may want them because look at their power and the blizzard they created and how it turned things BUT they are NOT representing his best interests, they are breaking rules, violating ethics and are not in any way considering what it has done nor did the consider what it would do to this case/HIS case when they did so. THEY DID, THEY derailed it.

I don't have the words to say what I want to pull clear from jumbled thoughs pre-coffee to say so I will just say this, there is something FAR BIGGER going on here. Just narrowing it for now to ONE thing, the defense is not doing this FOR Allen. That's such hogwash I could explode in wanting to pound that in to some out there. And things weren't accidentally unlocked, access wasn't accidentally given and Baldwin is not just some naive and trusting soul.

Another point to start with is what club is Gull a part of... And which one are the defense attys a part of.... If any for any of them and I don't mean politics or only politics... I don't believe some want her off the bench for just this trial because again of concern for Allen, not for a single minute...

This is bigger and honestly defenses lately everywhere or in many cases seem like...

Yeah this has sprouts in several directions, a few vines, several branches and then throw in some avenues and that is what is WANTED, a jumbled mess. And it is one.

I had better stop as any bit of clarity is now gone again as they intend with the entire blizzard swooping back in. I had the door closed but then....
 

His counsel was court appointed. The court took it away. BUT they appointed them in the first place, he did not choose them but wants to now. Clearly the court was fine with appointing them and had no reason not to and even gave them one chance after screwing up until they continued to violate ethics or at least show they don't know how to secure case information and evidence. No matter what legalese is thrown, those are the facts.

Some of what is here is bigger than what it seems. This is maybe arguably one of the biggest and best known cases in the nation and it is being USED. Not sure if the local players are involved or know that but it is... For bigger purposes... Maybe that only came about recently or maybe it has always been in play...
 

Forum statistics

Threads
3,006
Messages
240,657
Members
966
Latest member
pizzalover
Back
Top Bottom