LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *GUILTY*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]



Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]

Murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

On Feb 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams & Liberty German were discovered in Delphi, #INDIANA. The suspect in their deaths is awaiting trial.

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant, though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." Even with a lot of media coverage, their murders remain unsolved.

www.crimewatchers.net

 

[Cousin Dupree]

From the PCA:

Video from the Hoosier Harvestore shows at 1:49pan. white car matching
vehicle traveling away from the entrance across from the Mearsfarni. advised she finished her
walk and saw no other adults other than the male on the bridge.

READ IT HERE: Judge Unseals Docs in Accused Delphi Killer Richard Allen’s Case, Spotted with ‘Bloody & Muddy’ Clothing

“We strongly believe the evidence shows Richard Allen was involved in the murder of Libby and Abby,” a statement said.

www.crimeonline.com

Another witness told police he noticed a purple PT Cruiser or a “small SUV type” or “smart car” parked to the side of the old Child Protection Services (CPS) building on February 17, 2017. Investigators determined that Allen owned two vehicles at the time, including a 2006 black Ford Focus and a 2006 grey Ford 500.

I bolded that stuff.

He didn't even own a white car back then.

Here's a white PT Cruiser:

I looked for a white smart car, but they seem to only come in two tone paint jobs.

Here's a 2006 black Ford Focus:

What's for sure is that car isn't white, or purple. Did police run a search on who owns purple PT Cruisers in the area? So if it wasn't RA's car on the video, whose was it. The police seem to be ignoring that problem.

 

[Tresir]

From the PCA:

Video from the Hoosier Harvestore shows at 1:49pan. white car matching
vehicle traveling away from the entrance across from the Mearsfarni. advised she finished her
walk and saw no other adults other than the male on the bridge.

READ IT HERE: Judge Unseals Docs in Accused Delphi Killer Richard Allen’s Case, Spotted with ‘Bloody & Muddy’ Clothing

“We strongly believe the evidence shows Richard Allen was involved in the murder of Libby and Abby,” a statement said.

www.crimeonline.com

Another witness told police he noticed a purple PT Cruiser or a “small SUV type” or “smart car” parked to the side of the old Child Protection Services (CPS) building on February 17, 2017. Investigators determined that Allen owned two vehicles at the time, including a 2006 black Ford Focus and a 2006 grey Ford 500.

I bolded that stuff.

He didn't even own a white car back then.

Here's a white PT Cruiser:

I looked for a white smart car, but they seem to only come in two tone paint jobs.

Here's a 2006 black Ford Focus:

What's for sure is that car isn't white, or purple. Did police run a search on who owns purple PT Cruisers in the area? So if it wasn't RA's car on the video, whose was it. The police seem to be ignoring that problem.

Where does it mention a white car in the PCA? I think that was the witness's car that was the white car so they could determine the time she saw the muddy and bloody guy.

 

[Tresir]

I wonder if anybody searched that area before they were found. Nobody went to this area until the next day? I've always assumed they were found right below the end of the bridge, where they were told to go down the hill. I may be seriously wrong about that. I wouldn't be surprised if the bodies weren't put out until early on the morning of the 14th, around 3a.m. or so.

It's always been known they crossed the creek. That's why the searchers were searching the creek so carefully in the video.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

Where does it mention a white car in the PCA? I think that was the witness's car that was the white car so they could determine the time she saw the muddy and bloody guy.

Read the first part of the PCA I copied. It says a white car.

 

[Tresir]

An unspent bullet from his gun was found at the crime scene between the victims. Where are you getting your info that no bullet was found or that a casing was found? That's incorrect.

See below from the PCA, as I posted above.

"There was also .40 caliber unspent round less than two feet awayfrom Victim 2's body, between Victim 1 and Victim 2's bodies. The round was unspent and had extraction marks on it."

Later in the PCA this is stated

"An unspent .40 caliber round between the bodies of Victim 1 and Victim 2, was forensically determined to have been cycled through Richard Allen's Sig Sauer Model P226.
The SigSauer ModelP226 was found at Richard Allen's residence and he admitted to owning it.
Investigators were able to determine that he had owned it since 2001. RichardAllen stated he had not been on that property where the unspent round was found, that he did not know the property owner, and that he had no explanation as to why a round cycled through his firearm would be at that location. Furthermore, he stated that he never allowed anyone to use or borrow the Sig Sauer Model P226."

No bullet was found at the crime scene. An ejected casing that hadn't been fired was found. The ejection marks can be traced to a particular weapon only. I've heard, I don't know where, so I can't say a "reliable" source.

 

[Tresir]

Read the first part of the PCA I copied. It says a white car.

They used the white car to determine what time the witness was there. It wasn't RA's car.

The white car was the witness' car. Read it again.

 

[Olenna]

Amicus Brief.pdf

Amicus Brief submitted to SCION re: 11/6/23 motion from RA - by the Indiana Public Defender Council (IDPC)
The Indiana Public Defender Council states its interest in this 11/6/23 matter in front of SCION and writes their argument.

This Amicus brief does reinforce the obvious rights of RA to the counsel of choice BUT
the IDCP adds its own NEW ISSUE to the 11/6/23 brief by asserting that Gull's bypassed the County process for appointing public defenders by
making the decision for RA's new counsel on her own and pulling in her home-team as new counsel rather than following the proper County process in place ... which puts considerable SPACE between the ruling Court and the selection of the public defender for RA. The Judge's relationships to the new P's she has selected - even the appearance of it - this IDPC asserts will interfere with fairness of RA's case.

So, bottom line ... ignoring all the rest ... this Amicus argues at the minimum that Judge Gull's newly selected counsel to replace the Old D's need to go.
They recommend the Old D be returned to the case ... for all the obvious reasons ... as to RA's civil rights. Or, in the very least that Carroll Cty's PD system is followed and Carroll county finds the new D's.

IPDC is well-positioned to address the importance of independence of the
defense function, a topic at the core of the work it does. IPDC’s interests are aligned

with the Relator, Richard Allen, in raising concerns about the removal of his court-
appointed counsel. However, this brief intentionally focuses narrowly on

independence concerns. The Council is committed to supporting appointed counsel,
whomever that may be, as this case continues.

SUMMARY OF THE ARGUMENT

Indiana has long been a leader in providing appointed counsel and in recent
decades has made strides to preserve counsel’s independence from the judges before
whom they appear. The removal of appointed counsel for broad or vague reasons
undermines the independence of the defense function and extinguishes a long-
standing rapport with a client who must now languish in prison for an additional
nine months.

Moreover, after removal of counsel, replacement counsel should have
been selected according to the Carroll County plan from a list of qualified attorneys
approved by the county’s public defender board or by referral to the state public
defender for selection of replacement counsel. Appointing counsel from Allen
County, especially the chief public defender of that county, deprives Indiana’s third
largest county of the leader of its public defender office and raises the prospect of
loss of reimbursement for Allen County if Commission standards are not met.

 

[RoundPeg]

@Tresir said;
"BTW MW stole the photos in August but RF did not shoot himself
until 11th Oct, after the LE visit."

Yeah, about that, so I figure what happened there.. the guy didn't
commit suicide in concern at having leaked a bunch of photos...
I figure the LE that talked to him probably went heavy along the lines
of, guess what, you're disseminating child porn thing, ->sex offender listing,
->many many years in prison upcoming for him, for that. Cause think
about it - pictures of semi-naked/naked children? nothing in the laws that
say they have to be alive, so yeah, the LE probably slanted it as child
porn - so the suicide is still 'what, really?', but now with that angle, at
least it doesn't seem so impossible that he might do it.

Can you cite Indiana law please? Never thought about this.

 

[Olenna]

ya know, I'm posting SC stuff here b/c whatever the verdict, if this messy crap continues in the lower court then RA's verdict will be ripe to be completely voided by the appellate.

I happen to think the interlocutory procedures and resulting corrective instructions from the higher (Supreme) Court will save this verdict ... will give it strength when it's examined at the appellate. And yes, an interlocutory procedure in the middle of a murder trial is an emergent procedure.

I can continue to bring highly relevant higher Court info here, or ... not. The presumption is there's folks on the thread interested in an effort to preserve a potential guilty verdict once it's been made.

Gull may have placed this case in jeopardy with statutory failures in managing this case's docket, judicial overreach and selection of new counsel too close in relationship to the ruling judge ... and a higher power is checking in (interlocutory) ensure fair process ... and that's nothing but a very good thing. It's also fascinating to watch the law work. Although it does require some extra reading.

The Jury decides guilt here at trial. The facts/evidence and interpretation thereof at trial is what frees or convicts. The stuff approved for trial - we don't even know yet. In fact, the defense hasn't received all the discovery and have had very few depositions, no expert depositions, and once they do, they'll alter their approach (or not). But all that past work and all future work and all the jury's work will be for naught if we don't get the court issues that have been raised at the higher court ... settled.

IMO, Gull was the first person to realize she was off the case and she knew this 10/30 when the 1st SCION motion was made. Which is why she stuck to her guns (at 10/31 hearing) ... it was the only logical choice she had since her next tasks here would be to defend her various findings/decisions in this case before recusing herself over the "appearance" of conflicts - including the fact that the Defendant has sued her twice in Supreme Court before trial even starts and she failed to replace his counsel with independent public defenders. JMHO

 

[Tresir]

Not done yet, but have a couple of questions:

The girls said the guy was not over 5'10. They called him small. 6 inches in height is a big difference. I'm 5'5" and nobody would say I was not over 5'10" They'd say short. If they asked if I was over 5'10" it would elicit laughter.

Also, when did they get the footage from the Harvest Store? If they got that footage in 2022 after finding a suspect that's very hinky for me. I've worked places that have video surveillance, and it was deleted monthly. If they're saying they went to the Harvest Store, and they had footage stored from 2017 I find that very hard to believe. It's possible they asked local business' to give them their footage, if they had video surveillance systems in 2017 to use for future reference. View attachment 20622

I am assuming they got the Hoosier store video straightaway. Because stores don't usually keep video for very long. If you remember there was something re KK and video not being able to be retrieved from a gas station before it was deleted.

It matched his gun, I believe, is only saying that brand of gun and make matched up. So anyone owning a Sig Sauer just like that one, would have similar ejection marks. I also can't say this is absolutely true, but I seem to recall hearing that the PD used the exact type of gun he had.

No it is his actual gun they matched the ejection indentation to, I believe.

It seems that since the guy on the bridge seems to be larger than 5'4", someone else had to be there. Two people identified bridge guy as Ron Logan independently. I don't know what the original guesstimate on BG's height was. That would be interesting to find out. Was it closer to RL or RA's height?

Only one guy was on the trail at the time seen by the witnesses, the 3 juveniles saw him at Freedom bridge, the woman saw him about 50 feet on the monon bridge and she then turned and retraced her steps passing Libby and Abbey about halfway between the Monon bridge and the parking opposite Mears. This can only be RA because of the exact timing of the witnesses sightings and the actual video of him caught on Libby's phone at 2.13 pm on the bridge as well as he himself putting him there at the same time. No other man was seen in that timeframe at all.

 

[RoundPeg]

ya know, I'm posting SC stuff here b/c whatever the verdict, if this messy crap continues in the lower case then RA's verdict will be ripe to be completely voided by the appellate.

I happen to think the interlocutory procedures and resulting corrective instructions from the higher (Supreme) Court will save this verdict ... will give it strength when it's examined at the appellate. And yes, an interlocutory procedure in the middle of a murder trial is an emergent procedure.

I can continue to bring highly relevant higher Court info here, or ... not. The presumption is there's folks on the thread interested in an effort to preserve a potential guilty verdict once it's been made.

Gull may have placed this case in jeopardy with statutory failures in managing this case's docket, judicial overreach and selection of new counsel too close in relationship to the ruling judge ... and a higher power is checking in (interlocutory) ensure fair process ... and that's nothing but a very good thing. It's also fascinating to watch the law work. Although it does require some extra reading.

The Jury decides guilt here at trial. The facts/evidence and interpretation thereof at trial is what frees or convicts. The stuff approved for trial - we don't even know yet. In fact, the defense hasn't received all the discovery and have had very few depositions, no expert depositions, and once they do, they'll alter their approach (or not). But all that past work and all future work and all the jury's work will be for naught if we don't get the court issues that have been raised at the higher court ... settled.

IMO, Gull was the first person to realize she was off the case and she knew this 10/30 when the 1st SCION motion was made. Which is why she stuck to her guns (at 10/31 hearing) ... it was the only logical choice she had since her next tasks here would be to defend her various findings/decisions in this case before recusing herself over the "appearance" of conflicts - including the fact that the Defendant has sued her twice in Supreme Court before trial even starts and she failed to replace his counsel with independent public defenders. JMHO

I'm interested in the law. Please keep posting.

 

[Guess Who]

From the PCA:

Video from the Hoosier Harvestore shows at 1:49pan. white car matching
vehicle traveling away from the entrance across from the Mearsfarni. advised she finished her
walk and saw no other adults other than the male on the bridge.

READ IT HERE: Judge Unseals Docs in Accused Delphi Killer Richard Allen’s Case, Spotted with ‘Bloody & Muddy’ Clothing

“We strongly believe the evidence shows Richard Allen was involved in the murder of Libby and Abby,” a statement said.

www.crimeonline.com

Another witness told police he noticed a purple PT Cruiser or a “small SUV type” or “smart car” parked to the side of the old Child Protection Services (CPS) building on February 17, 2017. Investigators determined that Allen owned two vehicles at the time, including a 2006 black Ford Focus and a 2006 grey Ford 500.

I bolded that stuff.

He didn't even own a white car back then.

Here's a white PT Cruiser:

I looked for a white smart car, but they seem to only come in two tone paint jobs.

Here's a 2006 black Ford Focus:

What's for sure is that car isn't white, or purple. Did police run a search on who owns purple PT Cruisers in the area? So if it wasn't RA's car on the video, whose was it. The police seem to be ignoring that problem.

Per your link you posted...

"Investigators said security footage captured Allen’s Ford Focus in the area on February 13, 2017, at around 1:27 p.m., near the CPS building."

It seems YOU are the one ignoring that problem.

 

[Guess Who]

No bullet was found at the crime scene. An ejected casing that hadn't been fired was found. The ejection marks can be traced to a particular weapon only. I've heard, I don't know where, so I can't say a "reliable" source. Supposedly the local police carry the exact type of gun that the casing was ejected from. So it's not like it's really rare in that area.

I also have a small suspicion that somebody in LE was involved in this as well.



I don't want to talk for her, but See above. It's my take on it.

this is wrong.

A bullet WAS found. It was a bullet that was ejected without being fired. You can't have a just a casing from an unspent bullet. The markings from an ejected bullet aren't quite as accurate as barrel markings, but can be used to include or eliminate weapons.

 

[Olenna]

I'm interested in the law. Please keep posting.

I'll post more if more comes re the higher court or further release of "confidential" stuff at the lower court.
There's gonna be nothing happening in Gull's court until SC provides their recommendations/orders. JMO

In yesterdays set of papers, Gull's clerk shared with the Wieneke lawyer that the Oct 19th records of the closed chambers meeting was confidential and will remain confidential until Gull decides otherwise. It's going to take an SC decision to un-confidential that thing.

 

[Tresir]

They used the white car to determine what time the witness was there. It wasn't RA's car.

The white car was the witness' car. Read it again.

Actually I think I am wrong (shock/horror!!!) and the white car was Kelsi's car I believe. This was in the PCA explaining when the girls were dropped off.

"Though interviews, revielws ofelectronic records, and review ofvideo atthe Hoosier Harvestore,
investigators believe Victim and Victim were dropped ofcrossfrom the Mears Farm at 1:49p.m. on
February 13m, 2017 by The Mearsfarm is located on the north side ofCountJr Road300 North
near an entrance to the trails. videofrom Victim 2'sphone shows that at2:13p.m. Victim and Victim
encountered male subject on the southeastportion of
the Monon High Bridge. The male ordered the
girls "Guys, Down the hill". No witnesses saw them after this time. No outgoing communications were
found on Vicu'm 2'sphone afler this time. Their bodies were discovered on February 14", 2017.
The video recoveredfrom Vica'rn isphone shows Victim walking southeast on the Monon High
Bridge while male subject wearing darkjacket andjeans walks behind her. As the male subject
approaches Victim and Victim 2, one ofthe victims mentions, "gun". Near the end ofthe video male is
seen and heard telling the girls, "Guys, Down the hill. The girls then begin toproceed down the hill and
the video ends. stillphotograph
takenfrom the video and the "Guys, Down the hill" audio was
subsequendy
released to thepublic
to assist investigators
in identzfling the male."

So the girls were dropped off at 1.49pm, the woman witness saw BG on the bridge then turned around and walked past the girls halfway between the bridge and the Mears parking area.

BG could only be RA, as filmed by Libby at 2.13pm.

 

[RoundPeg]

I'll post more if more comes re the higher court or further release of "confidential" stuff at the lower court.
There's gonna be nothing happening in Gull's court until SC provides their recommendations/orders. JMO

In yesterdays set of papers, Gull's clerk shared with the Wieneke lawyer that the Oct 19th records of the closed chambers meeting was confidential and will remain confidential until Gull decides otherwise. It's going to take an SC decision to un-confidential that thing.

Confidential? Since when is "confidential" a thing in a court of law?

 

[Tresir]

ya know, I'm posting SC stuff here b/c whatever the verdict, if this messy crap continues in the lower court then RA's verdict will be ripe to be completely voided by the appellate.

I happen to think the interlocutory procedures and resulting corrective instructions from the higher (Supreme) Court will save this verdict ... will give it strength when it's examined at the appellate. And yes, an interlocutory procedure in the middle of a murder trial is an emergent procedure.

I can continue to bring highly relevant higher Court info here, or ... not. The presumption is there's folks on the thread interested in an effort to preserve a potential guilty verdict once it's been made.

Gull may have placed this case in jeopardy with statutory failures in managing this case's docket, judicial overreach and selection of new counsel too close in relationship to the ruling judge ... and a higher power is checking in (interlocutory) ensure fair process ... and that's nothing but a very good thing. It's also fascinating to watch the law work. Although it does require some extra reading.

The Jury decides guilt here at trial. The facts/evidence and interpretation thereof at trial is what frees or convicts. The stuff approved for trial - we don't even know yet. In fact, the defense hasn't received all the discovery and have had very few depositions, no expert depositions, and once they do, they'll alter their approach (or not). But all that past work and all future work and all the jury's work will be for naught if we don't get the court issues that have been raised at the higher court ... settled.

IMO, Gull was the first person to realize she was off the case and she knew this 10/30 when the 1st SCION motion was made. Which is why she stuck to her guns (at 10/31 hearing) ... it was the only logical choice she had since her next tasks here would be to defend her various findings/decisions in this case before recusing herself over the "appearance" of conflicts - including the fact that the Defendant has sued her twice in Supreme Court before trial even starts and she failed to replace his counsel with independent public defenders. JMHO

Please keep posting updates as it is very helpful and much appreciated.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Proof?

He was the only one who admits to being on the trails and bridge between 1.30 and 3.30 though.

BTW MW stole the photos in August but RF did not shoot himself until 11th Oct, after the LE visit.

That's if you think MW is telling the truth as to date and time and they didn't come up with one that fit with when B was on the phone and in his office.

Even so, we don't know when he provided them to RF do we? There is sooo much without answers here and the only answers there really are can't be taken as fact.

 

[GrandmaBear]

I wondered too if they may have taken it down.

Yes, pretty curious if you ask me as none of us could access it but one had and then couldn't right...? I forget who? Was it you or someone else? Which would mean it WAS there and WAS a good link...

 

[GrandmaBear]

Here's the helicopter footage. I meant to post it before.

Wasn't going to and wasn't going to stick it out, my mind is too tired for it but I did. I may have missed a few seconds here and there when I got up to get something but did watch so now any comments i can at least know i've seen it. My main takeaway is on this day they had a huge presence and all areas had cars or cops etc. as to anyone entering. The other takeaway are the guys in the creek and one can't say they weren't doing their job and methodically and it also gives an idea of depth.

Haven't seen comments on it yet so don't know what the takeaway is by others. I am far behind and not sure I will be catching up tonight. Been a longggg day.