LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *GUILTY*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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this is wrong.

A bullet WAS found. It was a bullet that was ejected without being fired. You can't have a just a casing from an unspent bullet. The markings from an ejected bullet aren't quite as accurate as barrel markings, but can be used to include or eliminate weapons.
There WAS a bullet. I always thought so then someone go me thinking I had it wrong and it was a casing but I could not recall who and now i figure it was likely the emu and here he is doing it again after I was corrected back to bullet he says there wasn't one. i am STICKING with bullet regardless of whatever the heck is true with regard to casing. there dam* well WAS a bullet. :nope: to emu.
 
Where is it said that he looked like he'd been in a fight? If that's true then it speaks more to his possible innocence. BEFORE the girls were killed he had looked like he was in a fight. Who beat him up before the girls were killed, by him, allegedly. I still think he had some involvement, but not alone.

I just put some videos in the "Crimes by the Justice system and Police" thread. It was a good reminder that police forces are not always competent or honest. Something still smells fishy.
It says it in the PCA and it was after not before. By the same witness who said muddy or bloody or both of the guy on the road. She said it looked as though the man had been in a fight and I take that to mean bloody and it could mean scratched up, could mean a black eye, could mean muddy and disheveled, what does in a fight mean to you? In this context to me it means bloody and perhaps dirty from a fight. This was RA heading back to his car after the murders.

It is in the post about the PCA and psheesh, I'm the one without time to read all and I saw it and it refreshed my memory on all of it as well.

Of course there can be crimes by the justice system and corrupt individuals. But in this case that thought does not eliminate a lot of things that are the cause of his charges. They didn't pull some guy that was never there out of thin air and place him there. The bullet was found YEARS ago and Allen only looked at in more recent times so they did not manufacture the bullet now and they couldn't make Allen just happen to own a Sig either, he had owned it since like '01. Sorry, there just is no credible, logical sane thought that these things are made up or even planted, it doesn't work and he sure was not planted here, he WAS there. ALSO these witnesses aren't new either. This stuff has always been out there or most of it.
 
There WAS a bullet. I always thought so then someone go me thinking I had it wrong and it was a casing but I could not recall who and now i figure it was likely the emu and here he is doing it again after I was corrected back to bullet he says there wasn't one. i am STICKING with bullet regardless of whatever the heck is true with regard to casing. there dam* well WAS a bullet. :nope: to emu.
The ejection marks would be on the casing and the actual business end of the bullet itself would be intact since they know it was unspent, otherwise they would not be stating that it was ejected and unspent. Nobody is going to just load a casing into a weapon without the business end being with it. Pretty sure you won't be able to even load and chamber just a casing. Not positive on that one since I haven't spent much time around hand guns. I've mostly been around rifles and shot guns.
 
What proof is there that "Down the hill" was said by BG? It could have been someone who was at the bottom of the hill.
Sorry but that's Allen's voice. But then you think he isn't Bridge guy so you must think him to be down the hill. Also how can you say in one post Libby's phone wouldn't pick up voices down the hill and now you are saying it would? (I think they have a lock on his voice. I never heard anything so on point as the one I posted the other night, that is HIM and I believe they have more to compare by far.)

Plus you are all over the place. If it was not Allen on the bridge as you say (when he puts himself there as well), and you think he was involved, then he must be down the hill with the Os or whoever you are thinking now. So then you think the voice IS Allen FROM down the hill but you also try to make him not be there, which is it?

I've not ruled out some others involved, mostly the KK angle, but it is pretty sewn up for me that that is RA on the bridge. It has been throughout since his arrest almost but not clinched as it is now. It would take a lot to convince me otherwise as I almost never ever ever say a hundred but I am 99 to 99.9 percent on it now imo. The defense B.S. and sn*w gets in the way once in awhile but you need to as I do get your scraper out and clear your windshield once in awhile even as it keeps coming.

I get the questioning to a point, have done it myself but you are even disputing what are pretty surely facts.

I even agree and have wondered myself if the girls were killed at that time and left or not and I have as you know considered RL and someone coming in through or even staying at or on his property. it is still a possibility but what I can't ignore is even if that were true, RA is BG. People could be waiting down the hill but unless he is lying about parking and coming in and times and when, where and leaving, HE was on the trails and the only guy who was on that side of the murder scene. I've heard the arguments about RL, I've heard Linda back when and I've heard you say how two people SAID that is RL. If that's all true then Allen lied about parking, being on the bridge, what time, etc. and went to the cops and said all this and it was false? It just doesn't work. Someone else has his car? He put himself in Logan's place as the guy on the bridge, why?? To save Logan? Doesn't wash. I don't know that you will see this but it just doesn't work.

I also know the height argument. We don't have to be rocket scientists or experts in angles like some architect to know what we have watched for years and years and years. There has never been one single time I have ever watched the BG video that I thought of the guy as tall. I always saw him as average at best in height and perhaps a bit less than depending on what thinks of as average these days. I can only guess this has been looked at and they are comfortable saying this is RA. This man was also trying it always seemed to be covering himself and to be nondescript. People can say that is typical midwest dress, but I am midwest and no it isn't on a day like that at that hour. My ex would be in a T shirt and at minimum NO COAT of any kind and certainly no hat or scarf or garb of whatever that all was. He has it all on for a reason and just as likely as I've said before also had boots or something with height, even men's work boots add as we know. But I don't even need to go there in my head because again I never thought of this man as more than average height and possibly less than. I think of average as 5'6 to 5'8" but that's based on my age and just what an average has been to me through my years. 6' was always thought of as tall as was even 5'10, 5'11". That has changed I'm sure as i have nephews and a grandson who tower over the heights my dad and brothers were but I consider hem extremely tall, well over 6'. But I'm no expert and that's all just my view of the video and BG always.

And here's some food for thought, maybe determining his height is no more of a science than you think the bullet evidence is... Just junk science?

I'm okay with being wrong but let's do a pool, and we MAY never know the answer but maybe we shall or convincingly will at some poin and we will know--I say RA IS BG. You don't. So we have us two in on it. I can think of a few others who will say HE IS but I am not going to throw their vote in for them, they can.
 
So what does that car have to do with RA? They were on the bridge when RA says he was there. We already knew that. So what evidentiary value does that have? The girls phone would have exactly when the picture and recording of BG happened. So I don't get the white car thing.

Also, again. Nobody said they saw a black car at the scene. A purple PT Cruiser was parked near there backed in, so they couldn't see the license plate. I already demonstrated that a PT Cruiser and a Ford Focus look completely different. Oh, it might have been a smart car instead.

Was the PCA saying that the white car proves they were dropped off? We already know that!
I am WAY BEHIND but what is all this about a white car? Isn't it Kelsey or the proof the witness really went by when she said? I can't recall but I don't think it is being said that is Allen.

Allen placed HIMSELF parked at as he call sit he old was it CPS building although he has the wrong agency name. The point is his story some with actual facts as he was seen lines up with what the witnesses say in time, location, etc. I would just ask you the last time you parked somewhere what was the vehicle and its color parked across from you and two spaces to the left? And that is not even when you are a MOVING vehicle who just happens to glimpse something. Not like they turned around and went and had a look but it ALL MATCHES up, that's the point. And describe the clothing of the last person you walked by that wasn't a Wegman's clerk with a hot tush? They vary a bit but it wasn't important BUT again it all is close enough PLUS matches up to the path and time and the one man on the trails to tie together perfectly along with Allen's own statements. This is what you aren't seeing, and yes, they need to SHOW this and show it clearly in trial. And you are doing what a defense will try to do but it is all there. It is all there. Scrape your windshield and take a look without blinders.
 
I know of corrupt police forces in the Rochester region. I also know about the tech in Boston who fudged drug analysis reports because she never tested the samples. I also know about police deliberately setting people up because it's convenient. This whole "OH, WE FINALLY FOUND THE GUY!!" Seems like horse hockey, it's awfully convenient this happened. I'm not buying what the cops are saying as uncorrupted beyond a shadow of a doubt. If the police did in fact check into the Odinist theory and deemed it unbelievable, they should show us how they investigated and came to that conclusion.

I realize that the people who believe the police and justice system 100% of the time, will have a problem with my theories. Oh, well. I'm just looking for some indisputable evidence. AFAIK, they don't have a DNA match with the girls that we've heard about. The LISK case started off with that when naming Cry Baby the suspect. We have DNA evidence, yet none is talked about here.
There isn't DNA in a number of cases and a ton are circumstantial but strong circumstantial. Look at Daybell.

I know of corruption and believe me I certainly know of small town small area corruption but I do not think it common most would go as far as you think. Most know when to pull their punches and most wont risk too much if they can help it. You are giving this local small area department a whole lot of brilliance and brains. And somehow they could go back to years before he was arrested or looked at and know they needed a bullet that five years later would match his gun AND again he himself placed himself there, that just CANNOT be gotten rid of. I am sure the old D was looking for a way and are as we "speak". I'd just be repeating what i have said in other posts tonight but yes there is definitely corruption.

I have no problem with your theories. I have been on board and in the same place with KK, Logan's property and I was 50/50 on RL. I still can consider such but just can't see some of what you are saying.

Delphi and surrounding counties and IN must be full of corrupt yet brilliant Os, corrupt yet brilliant LE, corrupt yet brilliant planning child pedos, etc. based on your thoughts, I mean NO OFFENSE. I get you are jumping on every theory or new thing as many of us and millions of others have done through these years as it all drives us nuts BEFORE any arrest or knowledge of the perp but it is there now and it fits. BUT I GET THE unanswered questions and lingering things that we do not have answers to nor can be ruled out. The entire KK thing alone was enough to imo still NOT IGNORE. The case itself of course is a hot mess imo due to old D mainly and also probably Gull's reaction to old D. I haven't ruled that out. BUT RA fits as BG and all around it does, his words, witnesses' words, time frame, etc. Beyond that, who knows but he was there and he was BG AND he parked there per himself.

The biggest problem with the voluminous often ridiculous O filing was they CANNOT take RA out of it. They have to attack too much and any time you have to explain away way too many things, well, common sense. Just watched such when Charlie Adelson testified. They crafted a reason for everything but there were too many everythings...Hey that['s a case with no DNA, no bullet match, etc...
 
I have to say, I've heard different things about the bullet/casing found between the girls. I do know that when lawyers on CourtTV were asked specifically about the markings, they all said it's not like a fingerprint. One expert I've seen said that the type of markings used to identify the gun, is shoddy science and shouldn't be allowed to be presented as evidence.
So now you are including bullet. And not saying there wasn't one any longer? I'd like that clear?

You do know that a big part of news is to get controversial views from different guests don't you? Or if not that then to put up the "other" side of things. I have mentioned it back when on here but there was one and I believe it was with Vinnie where one who said it is a very good piece of evidence and solid science then had whoever Vinnie had on say that wasn't true and go at the first one somewhat or at last kind of put him down as wrong. The first one has his own show and did one about that show on Vinnie's and his take on the science and what the other guy said and I watched it. I have meant to share it but have not had the time to go back and find it. It also would be best to first see the Court TV one and then watch what he had to say about it after. He trained in it and it was back in the day don't get me wrong compared to this know it all of today who is probably paid to say such and he explained how it IS worthy and why it is good evidence, how it is done and so forth and I doubt the one saying otherwise has ever had a class in it.

You watch enough Vinnie and seem to catch them all and i wouldn't doubt for one minute this is the one you are talking of. Go follow up with the other guy who couldn't address it on the short sound byte minutes on Court TV bu did on is own show. And this man is a frequent guest of Vinnie's, i'd say a "friend". The one who said it IS a legitimate science. And in is own show explains.

Not sure why the world of all shows seems to be going all defense but one has to admit the bigger the mess, the more fodder they have for continual news. And views. And more. I don't believe for one minute MOST of them are about justice.
 
Unfired casing = bullet.
I'm sticking with bullet. I know there was one and casing or not there was a bullet. I am staying in that lane. Whether there was a casing with the bullet or not a casing, or a fired one or unfired one many seem confused about and I'll add myself with reading those that have it confused which I think many outside of this site do out in the big world do as well.

So am I right or safe in just referring to a bullet? :praying: Because in my short time and not being caught up emu said there wasn't one and now he referred to one and there is enough confusion in this case so I'm just going to go with bullet which is what i had thought from the outset. I am not a gun person. I am not anti gun but I know sh*t about the finer specifics.

Unfired means the entire thing, casing and bullet was just like cocked in the gun to scare someone right? Like a threat of a shot at them? And then if they didn't obey again, they may do the same...

I figure i know what it was and what he was doing and why but as far as the rest I'm just tired. if fired does it separate from its casing and just the casing is dropped along its route or at the site of the gun? And if not shot and ejected the entire thing drops together?

Why am I trying to know, but I feel I know basically. Or am I way off? Like finding spent shells means the bullet separated from the shell right and was actuall shot versus finding a bullet on the ground still in its shell?

That's for lack of better wording the way I kind of see it except this bullet wasn't dropped out of a box of them, it was cocked and hen ejected from a firearm leaving marks?
 
For Cuz, and all, the sex ring theory. Could explain the new prosecution expert too.


Well that's a horrible news story.:shocked: And sounds nothing like what came out in the PCA. Did this story get widely debunked? Or are we still expecting cat DNA and a rape and a souvenir at RL's house? :censored:
 
I'm sticking with bullet. I know there was one and casing or not there was a bullet. I am staying in that lane. Whether there was a casing with the bullet or not a casing, or a fired one or unfired one many seem confused about and I'll add myself with reading those that have it confused which I think many outside of this site do out in the big world do as well.

So am I right or safe in just referring to a bullet? :praying: Because in my short time and not being caught up emu said there wasn't one and now he referred to one and there is enough confusion in this case so I'm just going to go with bullet which is what i had thought from the outset. I am not a gun person. I am not anti gun but I know sh*t about the finer specifics.

Unfired means the entire thing, casing and bullet was just like cocked in the gun to scare someone right? Like a threat of a shot at them? And then if they didn't obey again, they may do the same...

I figure i know what it was and what he was doing and why but as far as the rest I'm just tired. if fired does it separate from its casing and just the casing is dropped along its route or at the site of the gun? And if not shot and ejected the entire thing drops together?

Why am I trying to know, but I feel I know basically. Or am I way off? Like finding spent shells means the bullet separated from the shell right and was actuall shot versus finding a bullet on the ground still in its shell?

That's for lack of better wording the way I kind of see it except this bullet wasn't dropped out of a box of them, it was cocked and hen ejected from a firearm leaving marks?
The whole bullet is ejected and the ejection marks are then on it. I posted info about the science upthread. Will repost.

Yes, it was in the gun which was then racked and ejected the whole unspent bullet.

An empty casing is what is ejected after a bullet is fired. The bullet and casing will be separate, with the casing on the floor near where it was fired and the bullet in or near the target that was shot at.
 
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I think they need a new Judge too. That would be the third right?

Also found a link on the science regarding ejector marks. I think these indentations will be the same on an ejected bullet and an ejected empty casing.

The science of ejector marks explained -

Found it and bringing forward. I originally posted this 10 days ago. @Cousin Dupree (and @GrandmaBear ) have a read and tell me what you think.
 
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Well that's a horrible news story.:shocked: And sounds nothing like what came out in the PCA. Did this story get widely debunked? Or are we still expecting cat DNA and a rape and a souvenir at RL's house? :censored:
Well why would the prosecution need that new expert otherwise? It is horrible. But I googled sex ring arrests Indiana and there have been many. I didn't want to post them on here but it is prolific and widespread.
 
Could be the reason the girls were there - expecting to meet Anthony Shots. Also some people say RA used to work at Chrysler, same as father of KK.
My impression is that the girls trip to the trails was spontaneous, rather impulsive, and didn't include anyone else.
Also, I think if there was a plan of meeting anyone there, LE would have certainly uncovered it and to my knowledge, they didn't.
 
For Cuz, and all, the sex ring theory. Could explain the new prosecution expert too.


This is from December 17, 2022

I found this quote very interesting:

Carroll County Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland has openly stated that he believes 'Allen is not the only actor involved in this.'

And while Allen has not been charged with kidnapping, prosecutors have alleged he attempted it.

Now sources close to the investigation have claimed that Allen was acting with at least two other men and was involved in a child sex ring.



I bolded that.
 
@GrandmaBear Please get caught up before you respond to posts. You're posting and then later read a clarification of the post you responded to and have to make a new post. Get caught up and then ask questions about things that haven't been addressed. I'm just saying this because it will save you time and us time.
:hugs:
 
Ref:

paragraph 1.1 states therein;
"When bullets are fired and cartridge cases ejected from a firearm,
the parts of the firearm that make forcible contact with them create
characteristic tool marks on their surfaces called ‘ballistic signatures’ [2].
Striation signatures (2D profile tool marks) on a bullet are caused by
its passage through the gun barrel (see figure 1 [3]). Impression
signatures (3D topography tool marks) on a cartridge case are caused
by impact with the firing pin, breech face and ejector (see figure 2 [3])."

Also, the picture and text of Figure 2 makes it very clear the assertions
being made are made in relation to Fired pieces of ammunition.

There is nothing in that document that references unfired pieces of
ammunition and the word unfired does not appear anywhere in that
document.
-------------------

@Cousin Dupree said:
"This is from December 17, 2022
I found this quote very interesting:
Carroll County Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland has openly stated
that he believes 'Allen is not the only actor involved in this.'
"

I predict, and will bet you a stack of chairs, that his 'belief' is BSincorrect
and that absolutley no such evidence will be produced at trial, of any
involvement by RA in any 'child sex' matters.
 
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Ref:

paragraph 1.1 states therein;
"When bullets are fired and cartridge cases ejected from a firearm,
the parts of the firearm that make forcible contact with them create
characteristic tool marks on their surfaces called ‘ballistic signatures’ [2].
Striation signatures (2D profile tool marks) on a bullet are caused by
its passage through the gun barrel (see figure 1 [3]). Impression
signatures (3D topography tool marks) on a cartridge case are caused
by impact with the firing pin, breech face and ejector (see figure 2 [3])."

Also, the picture and text of Figure 2 makes it very clear the assertions
being made are made in relation to Fired pieces of ammunition.

There is nothing in that document that references unfired pieces of
ammunition and the word unfired does not appear anywhere in that
document.
-------------------

@Cousin Dupree said:
"This is from December 17, 2022
I found this quote very interesting:
Carroll County Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland has openly stated
that he believes 'Allen is not the only actor involved in this.'
"

I predict, and will bet you a stack of chairs, that his 'belief' is BSincorrect
and that absolutley no such evidence will be produced at trial, of any
involvement by RA in any 'child sex' matters.

Here ya go. This is for the payoff on the bet.

FOLDING CHAIR STACK.jpg
 

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