LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *GUILTY*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]



Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]

Murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

On Feb 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams & Liberty German were discovered in Delphi, #INDIANA. The suspect in their deaths is awaiting trial.

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant, though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." Even with a lot of media coverage, their murders remain unsolved.

www.crimewatchers.net

 

[GrandmaBear]

That will only ever come out in court, if allowed, which is what these motions and arguments are all about. Or after the trial if convicted, or after any plea deal, for example.

I am still not clear on what he means although I am assuming like I think you are here, he means what Allen said to who and what his words were in each of the 61 confessions.

 

[GrandmaBear]

I am getting a little feeling that this is the D's last hurrah, so to speak. And then maybe the BS can stop and the girls and families finally receive the justice they deserve.

That would be so overdue and so nice. It may be the last hurrah, for all the other way they got the public by their little channels of leaks and so on for awhile there, and no one is talking much now, they have lost again at the ISC, looked like fools again, I don't like to be mean but to reiterate the Ding Dong comment, they can't lawyer at all imo. They CAN however play games. And THEY FAILED their client and his family in the early days and weeks and months I believe it was. He was NOT being counseled or guided. They blame everyone but themselves.

And what you posted not long ago from Reddit, and I do not follow Reddit, one reason is because their format I've never been able to follow easily, but I would never take as fact, a LOT of what was in there matches what we have seen or I have felt, instinct has said, etc.

It is ALL so unfair to the families and just adds more egregious sh*t. For years now.

And the worst imo is the D putting stuff out "accidentally" with the Frank O filing and the leak and photos and far more than have ever been seen before or heard of.

MW and these two bozos, they seem to keep it more on Baldwin, maybe Rozzi says you play this guy but leave me out of it but go for it, and who knows... You know, they are not even bozos, they are corrupt and care less about their client, his family, leaks, pictures, the families of the victims, named others who they flat out called responsible, the Os and have not one shred of evidence to back it up.

I want to say for ANYONE who thinks otherwise, I don't know how the mind can't have changed because just LOOK at IT. Not saying Gull is perfect, not saying the P is. But look at what they've been dealing with and we ONLY know a part of it. And remember the first judge got the heck out of Dodge. Gull is hated by anyone I'm sure on the D side and more but she is sticking out her job and not running in fear. Of course that was before much with the first judge but just saying...

I don't know also how anyone cannot see politics in this case and the case being used.

I've said before I alternate between B & R being dufuses or if this is one bigger show and they are well I'd say willing pawns.

But it's been so unprofessional and gone that I think no, own at least shouldn't have a law license just like MW. The other, well, he plays his part doesn't he....

 

[GrandmaBear]

I will also say this. If they try to delay this until after November well then... The trial I mean...I don't want to get in trouble but how many in the ISC are up, or In the trial court, etc...

For re-elect... In even the DA's office, etc.

I have no idea.

But if the Dumb Defense Duo are purposely doing such, then they are good actors in that respect because overall all I see is how worthless they are and should be disbarred and prosecuted. For one you are right about MW, he should be charged with CP etc. And then Baldwin who had a right to have the photos left such laying around that was distributed in what could be a CP charge on anyone who had such in their possession.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

Not clear. You mean what RA said right in each confession? Or what each side said in arguing it?

What he allegedly said and who's reporting it.

 

[Tresir]

What he allegedly said and who's reporting it.

I don't think we will ever see the exact wording unless Gull allows them in trial court. I think she will allow them though.

I don't think she will allow the O theory, because nobody saw anyone else on the trail and bridge except RA. Also, it sounds like they have voice analysis on the "down the hill" recording.

What do you think?

 

[Tresir]

Oh my - I think you will like reading this Cuz. A lot of detail about the confessions. I have been trying to find stuff on yesterday's hearing and it seems maybe this reporter is the dedicated one.

https://fox59.com/news/detective-testifies-richard-allen-confessed-more-than-60-times-to-delphi-murders/

CARROLL COUNTY, Ind. — Today was the day Richard Allen’s attorneys took their best shot at dismissing perhaps some of the most damning evidence arrayed against their client in the Delphi double murder case: his own words.
During day two of pre-trial preliminary hearings before Judge Fran Gull in Carroll Circuit Court, Allen’s defense team brought forth a prison psychologist who examined the man accused of killing Abby Williams and Libby German in 2017.
Judge considers motion to dismiss charges and sanction prosecutor in Delphi case
Dr. Monica Walla testified that shortly after Allen’s arrest in October of 2022, he was whisked away to Westville Correctional Facility to an isolated cell for his own protection where, within six months, he started exhibiting signs of “grave mental illness” due to the conditions of his pre-trial detention.
While other inmates in the Westville Corrections Unit, described as a “prison within a prison”, shouted “Baby Killer!” and “Kill yourself!” at Allen, Walla said she recognized the defendant’s deteriorating mental state as he banged his head against the concrete walls of his cell and ingested his own feces.
In May of 2023, Walla testified that Allen told her he wanted to confess to the killings of the girls near the Monon High Bridge outside of Delphi more than six years earlier and described some details of the crime.
Walla said her conversations with Allen were limited to speaking to him, “through the crack in the door” to his cell and, later, as he was locked inside what she called, “a cage”, in an interview room.
The psychologist testified that Allen told her he “found God” on March 21, 2023, and shared with her details of his activities on Feb. 13, 2017, the day of the murders, and made a confession to his wife Kathy during a phone call.
Walla shared that after the call Allen said his wife didn’t believe him.
Indiana State Police Detective Brian Harshman testified that he has reviewed 650-670 of Allen’s phone calls during his incarceration covering more than 150 hours.
Harshman said Allen has confessed more than 60 times, most often to his wife and mother, who expressed disbelief, concerns about his mental state or changed the subject.
It was in late March, after his “Come to Jesus” moment, when the confession phone calls began, said the detective.
“He talked about these crimes very specifically,” Harshman said.
Prosecutor Stacy Diener asked Harshman if Allen’s confessions contained details of the crime.
“That’s correct,” answered Harshman, adding that Allen also discussed his motivation in allegedly committing the killings.
Allen’s confession season covered the months of April through July of last year, which coincided with his mental illness crisis which was partially abated by injections of Haldol to curb his depression, anxiety and disorganized thinking.
Allen was later transferred to the Indiana Department of Correction’s Wabash Valley Correctional Facility south of Terre Haute where Harshman said a corrections officer overheard the defendant “apologize for killing Abby,” and that Allen wanted to, “tell the truth and be honest.”
Harshman said one of the telephone confessions he had transcribed recorded Allen’s concern over what evidence would be revealed at his trial, specifically crime scene photographs, and the impact that would have on his family.
On cross-examination by Defense Attorney Bradley Rozzi, Harshman said in all the monitored phone calls, Allen did not ever say he shot or molested the girls and would occasionally pronounce his innocence.
During earlier testimony, John Galipeau, former warden at Westville, said that one day while standing outside of Allen’s cell door he heard the accused man admit to the killings and refer to the victims by name.
What to expect from this week’s hearings in the Delphi murders
Reportedly guards and other inmates have also said they heard Allen confess unprompted.
ISP Lt. Jerry Holeman testified that an inmate claimed Allen admitted he threw away a boxcutter in a dumpster behind the CVS store where he worked in Delphi.
Prosecutors are expected to introduce bullet evidence linking Allen to a gun displayed at the murder scene and that Libby and Abby died of cutting wounds.
Allen’s defense team said its client has been under incredible stress and locked up in a bare-bones 8×12 foot state prison cell for 21 months while technically an innocent man awaiting trial.
Judge Gull will hear final summations on whether to suppress the confessions Thursday morning before likely taking the arguments under advisement, as she has motioned to move Allen to the Cass County Jail from now until his October trial date and to dismiss murder charges based on an alternate theory investigated by ISP that Odinists practicing a pagan Nordic ceremony may have killed the girls.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

Oh my - I think you will like reading this Cuz. A lot of detail about the confessions. I have been trying to find stuff on yesterday's hearing and it seems maybe this reporter is the dedicated one.

https://fox59.com/news/detective-testifies-richard-allen-confessed-more-than-60-times-to-delphi-murders/

CARROLL COUNTY, Ind. — Today was the day Richard Allen’s attorneys took their best shot at dismissing perhaps some of the most damning evidence arrayed against their client in the Delphi double murder case: his own words.
During day two of pre-trial preliminary hearings before Judge Fran Gull in Carroll Circuit Court, Allen’s defense team brought forth a prison psychologist who examined the man accused of killing Abby Williams and Libby German in 2017.
Judge considers motion to dismiss charges and sanction prosecutor in Delphi case
Dr. Monica Walla testified that shortly after Allen’s arrest in October of 2022, he was whisked away to Westville Correctional Facility to an isolated cell for his own protection where, within six months, he started exhibiting signs of “grave mental illness” due to the conditions of his pre-trial detention.
While other inmates in the Westville Corrections Unit, described as a “prison within a prison”, shouted “Baby Killer!” and “Kill yourself!” at Allen, Walla said she recognized the defendant’s deteriorating mental state as he banged his head against the concrete walls of his cell and ingested his own feces.
In May of 2023, Walla testified that Allen told her he wanted to confess to the killings of the girls near the Monon High Bridge outside of Delphi more than six years earlier and described some details of the crime.
Walla said her conversations with Allen were limited to speaking to him, “through the crack in the door” to his cell and, later, as he was locked inside what she called, “a cage”, in an interview room.
The psychologist testified that Allen told her he “found God” on March 21, 2023, and shared with her details of his activities on Feb. 13, 2017, the day of the murders, and made a confession to his wife Kathy during a phone call.
Walla shared that after the call Allen said his wife didn’t believe him.
Indiana State Police Detective Brian Harshman testified that he has reviewed 650-670 of Allen’s phone calls during his incarceration covering more than 150 hours.
Harshman said Allen has confessed more than 60 times, most often to his wife and mother, who expressed disbelief, concerns about his mental state or changed the subject.
It was in late March, after his “Come to Jesus” moment, when the confession phone calls began, said the detective.
“He talked about these crimes very specifically,” Harshman said.
Prosecutor Stacy Diener asked Harshman if Allen’s confessions contained details of the crime.
“That’s correct,” answered Harshman, adding that Allen also discussed his motivation in allegedly committing the killings.
Allen’s confession season covered the months of April through July of last year, which coincided with his mental illness crisis which was partially abated by injections of Haldol to curb his depression, anxiety and disorganized thinking.
Allen was later transferred to the Indiana Department of Correction’s Wabash Valley Correctional Facility south of Terre Haute where Harshman said a corrections officer overheard the defendant “apologize for killing Abby,” and that Allen wanted to, “tell the truth and be honest.”
Harshman said one of the telephone confessions he had transcribed recorded Allen’s concern over what evidence would be revealed at his trial, specifically crime scene photographs, and the impact that would have on his family.
On cross-examination by Defense Attorney Bradley Rozzi, Harshman said in all the monitored phone calls, Allen did not ever say he shot or molested the girls and would occasionally pronounce his innocence.
During earlier testimony, John Galipeau, former warden at Westville, said that one day while standing outside of Allen’s cell door he heard the accused man admit to the killings and refer to the victims by name.
What to expect from this week’s hearings in the Delphi murders
Reportedly guards and other inmates have also said they heard Allen confess unprompted.
ISP Lt. Jerry Holeman testified that an inmate claimed Allen admitted he threw away a boxcutter in a dumpster behind the CVS store where he worked in Delphi.
Prosecutors are expected to introduce bullet evidence linking Allen to a gun displayed at the murder scene and that Libby and Abby died of cutting wounds.
Allen’s defense team said its client has been under incredible stress and locked up in a bare-bones 8×12 foot state prison cell for 21 months while technically an innocent man awaiting trial.
Judge Gull will hear final summations on whether to suppress the confessions Thursday morning before likely taking the arguments under advisement, as she has motioned to move Allen to the Cass County Jail from now until his October trial date and to dismiss murder charges based on an alternate theory investigated by ISP that Odinists practicing a pagan Nordic ceremony may have killed the girls.

Thanks, I'd still like to hear the confessions, but this doesn't look good. I still think he didn't act alone.

 

[Tresir]

Thanks, I'd still like to hear the confessions, but this doesn't look good. I still think he didn't act alone.

I think this is the closest we will get till Gull decides if they can be brought up at trial. Based on what is in the article, he never mentioned an accomplice but supposedly mentioned regret for Abby. He didn't mention shooting either so I am not sure where the quote we saw that says he shot them in the back came from at all.

 

[Tresir]

Yes. And his theme has always been the same as they don't have the capability of taking him, that has never changed, to protect, safeguard, house, and more and of course let's not forget he'd be in with local inmates knowing he was this Delphi killer of two girls. Some of us looked some of this up some time back and they TRULY have little staff for around the clock, I think it was like six or seven? if I recall right.

It's easy to get confused though because there was Leazenby as well. As sheriff. Even more confusing is their initials are both TL. Tobe Leazenby and Tony Liggettt. My memory is good on some things.

Regardless, his stance has never changed on the reasons.

And I should mention to if he goes into Cass isn't this these defense attys home county and sheriff's dept. and courthouse....

No - the D are from Franklin IIRC.

Thought I had better check, so to elaborate on above statement. Baldwin is based in Franklin, Johnson County (102 miles from Delphi, while Rozzi is Logansport, Cass County, 22 miles from Delphi.

 

[Tresir]

I found this video from last night that confirms also that RA mentioned things in the confessions that only the murderer would know. That is the sort of thing that the jury would need to hear.

He also wanted the MH officer to listen to his confession to his wife and then after the call he said to the officer, "She didn't believe me"

Supposedly he started reading the bible and then confessing. Clearly has a guilty conscience over it now. Funny it never bothered him when he was free and able to drink and play pool for over 5 years.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

I think this is the closest we will get till Gull decides if they can be brought up at trial. Based on what is in the article, he never mentioned an accomplice but supposedly mentioned regret for Abby. He didn't mention shooting either so I am not sure where the quote we saw that says he shot them in the back came from at all.

One of the prisoners said that he told him that he shot them. Which is an obvious lie. That's why I want to know what was said.

RLs phone pinged near where the bodies were found the night before they were found. He asked his cousin to lie for him too. Something he'd never done before. He also lied about the time-line he told them.

 

[Tresir]

I am still not clear on what he means although I am assuming like I think you are here, he means what Allen said to who and what his words were in each of the 61 confessions.

Well obviously we don't have all the detail of the 61 confessions, but presumably the D and P have them all.

This is what the hearing is discussing and what is admissible in court. I think all of them should be.

 

[Tresir]

One of the prisoners said that he told him that he shot them. Which is an obvious lie. That's why I want to know what was said.

RLs phone pinged near where the bodies were found the night before they were found. He asked his cousin to lie for him too. Something he'd never done before. He also lied about the time-line he told them.

We don't know that was factual though. It appears it wasn't according to testimony yesterday. Have you got the original detail of who reported that comment? You will need to research that yourself.

RL's phone would ping near the bodies. He lived only yards away from there as it was his property. RL has been cleared and is dead. You need to forget him.

 

[GrandmaBear]

What he allegedly said and who's reporting it.

Well no one is necessarily "reporting" it in all cases like if he confessed 20 times to his mom and wife, that is monitored. If he wrote ten times to the warden, that's in writtten form and a warden would know to turn over such things and in fact is probably required to, same with guards. So some are recorded and some written, we know that much so RA ratted out himself with those. I mean I sense from your wording your think someone is reporting things that did not happen? We KNOW of some of them and the source.

A prisoner likewise would know to report such and/or would try to likely use it to help himself, offer something in return for something.

As far as what he said In each, that is going to take until trial unless either side refers to certain ones and what is in them in these or other hearings pretrial, OR in filings.

Also RA is recorded pretty much 24/7 but I think I heard recently there's not audio, only video.

 

[GrandmaBear]

I think this is the closest we will get till Gull decides if they can be brought up at trial. Based on what is in the article, he never mentioned an accomplice but supposedly mentioned regret for Abby. He didn't mention shooting either so I am not sure where the quote we saw that says he shot them in the back came from at all.

Imo that one came from the prisoner or from RA to the D and the D mentioned it, might have been in a filing, can't recall, trying to show some of his confessions were not factual and so he doesn't know what he's doing and they are all over the place they want believed and due to mental issues, coercion, stress, I think they've claimed all variety of such for causes. They never learn to just stick to one thing or at least keep things the SAME, they are all over the place themselves.

 

[GrandmaBear]

No - the D are from Franklin IIRC.

Thought I had better check, so to elaborate on above statement. Baldwin is based in Franklin, Johnson County (102 miles from Delphi, while Rozzi is Logansport, Cass County, 22 miles from Delphi.

So it is Rozzi's home/practicing county. Interesting, because it is the D that talked to them and determined Cass would be willing to take him.

I knew one or both likely were as that's their claim to be close enough to prepare their client and selves for trial and see him and for his family too be close enough to see him more as well. You know, unless his status has changed, I'm not sure how easily he could have visits anyhow. And honestly what's the difference in seeing on a tablet or in person anyhow? His family can't sit down with him, that's prison. In most county jails, the older ones anyhow, you have a glass partition and a telephone on each side. It isn't like you see in movies with prisons where there is one big room and tables and vending machines you sit in person with family in with no glass partitions. At least the last I knew it was still that way, maybe some have eased this too but not that I've ever heard.

HIs attorneys though would likely be able to sit down with him.

RA's status must have changed some because he only had one cuff this time and one hand free.

I think I recall it said his office is right across the street from the courthouse/jail? I didn't recall it was Rozzi though or which, etc. I forgot they aren't from the same town, etc. B & R I mean.

 

[RoundPeg]

Well obviously we don't have all the detail of the 61 confessions, but presumably the D and P have them all.

This is what the hearing is discussing and what is admissible in court. I think all of them should be.

It seems to me that they should be admissible, too. They're either going to show he was perfectly sane or extremely disturbed.

 

[GrandmaBear]

I found this video from last night that confirms also that RA mentioned things in the confessions that only the murderer would know. That is the sort of thing that the jury would need to hear.

He also wanted the MH officer to listen to his confession to his wife and then after the call he said to the officer, "She didn't believe me"

Supposedly he started reading the bible and then confessing. Clearly has a guilty conscience over it now. Funny it never bothered him when he was free and able to drink and play pool for over 5 years.

I need to watch it yet but just commenting quickly first. I'd heard about the Bible in some post above. And it makes perfect sense too. By the way, MOST turn into Jesus lovers and Bible thumpers once in prison and they use it in court as well for obvious reasons. As you said it didn't bother him until caught now did it in all these years...

So he mentioned things only the murderer would know.

And you see this is what I keep saying. These reporters are hearing things all day in court that we did not know before and they aren't reporting on them all. I wish one of them would do an hour long show or get their station or whatever to let them and have jotted every important new fact or fact claimed by the P and tell us all of them. And they CAN do that. Heck you'd think one of the outlets at least would be running to do so or all would with ratings on actual news lower than ever.

Gull is not going to suppress these and she certainly isn't going to suppress all 61 in blanket style. The D has given no solid reason imo for her to do so. And they are legitimate actual confessions and they belong in the trial imo. And the D has not even backed up what they claim caused RA to confess. There's just no cause to suppress them, they tried I guess (the D) but they just don't have any evidence or cause to get them suppressed. No expert, just the way I see it.

One last thing, man RA's wife needs some serious help. Talk about denial and not even LISTENING to her husband when he tries to tell her something, or believing it. Is she like this just with this or with all things where is concerned?

I don't know HOW she convinces herself of what she likely does. How does she explain his bullet and gun to herself? His voice and believe me she KNOWS it. His gait and posture and believe me again, the wife knows this. And I am convinced if she didn't know that she looked back and knows that day that something was off and there are things she noticed. And yes, she would recall because just then two girls from their small town went missing and you'd recall what you were doing at the time and so on right at that time. You'd wonder where your neighbors were, if a stranger did it, if the local SO did...

So we said there'd finally be new things to discuss when pretrial hearings, even filings, and trial occurred and we finally have a few. Not a lot, but a few, and not exactly all new, but new details, a few. WHY they are NOT reporting in the way Nate would about what happened that day in court I don't know. News stations really need to get with it. They are at least using YT now but just for two minute blips. I suspect they still want the viewership on their TV channel or on their newsprint, who knows. But it is just the way of news as well. Just that short time slot and onto the next thing.

I'm a bit aggravated by it. If I lived there, did not work and could attend, I would and I'd jot down every single thing I could as fast as I could and then i'd give it all to Tom or someone each day, as I'm not going on YT lol or anywhere else for that matter. I wonder can they bring an old style cassette recorder? That's not really an electronic device, I mean I suspect they mean today's tech that can internet connect and send things out...

 

[GrandmaBear]

I found this video from last night that confirms also that RA mentioned things in the confessions that only the murderer would know. That is the sort of thing that the jury would need to hear.

He also wanted the MH officer to listen to his confession to his wife and then after the call he said to the officer, "She didn't believe me"

Supposedly he started reading the bible and then confessing. Clearly has a guilty conscience over it now. Funny it never bothered him when he was free and able to drink and play pool for over 5 years.

This is pretty good, just started into it. Just stopped to say so I keep my thought that yeah, this time it is the psychotic break the D claims from how he was treated in prison. The thing is they CANNOT back that up. He was seeing someone for mental health and unless a break is in his records well they can claim it but it doesn't make it true. To me that just means there's no solid basis.

And as far as a detective listening to his phone calls, I just want to make it clear this is entirely normal, it was done in Daybell, of COURSE they are. They are getting them steadily and going through them for the case. Chad and Lori really gave the detectives a LOT of work as they made constant numerous daily calls.

I wonder did RA ever call anyone else on the approved list and say hey I can't get mom and wife to believe me, you need to talk to them and tell them I did this kind of thing... Just speculating.

Sixty one of them may be quite the variety of people he confessed to BUT so far we've known of wife, mom, mental health doctor, warden and an inmate right? I'm just averaging--that's five people and that's 12 confessions on average to each. And it's totally possible he repeated his confession in one session five times, etc., each counting as another one. It does't have to mean they are all separate times or a different call, etc. His wife hung up on him we know but never heard mom did. He could have written countless letters to the warden. He may have repeated the confession in those letters even saying at the end of one something like, again, I am telling you I DID THIS CRIME, and I am willing to admit it to the court in exchange for a deal. That alone would be a separate confession in my opinion, and just a simple one.

 

[GrandmaBear]

I found this video from last night that confirms also that RA mentioned things in the confessions that only the murderer would know. That is the sort of thing that the jury would need to hear.

He also wanted the MH officer to listen to his confession to his wife and then after the call he said to the officer, "She didn't believe me"

Supposedly he started reading the bible and then confessing. Clearly has a guilty conscience over it now. Funny it never bothered him when he was free and able to drink and play pool for over 5 years.

He gave the wife a MOTIVE too? Had to stop it again to comment. I don't want to forget what thoughts it triggers while watching. Boy I'd like to know what that is and believe me, she is very likely to have to testify even as a hostile witness for the P. Even if she didn't though, and they are married so she may have some protection there, an investigator can use the recordings and their listening and testify to what that motive is him or herself. BOY would I like to know the motive... The one he claimed anyhow, wouldn't mean it was necessarily the truth either, I mean if it is some sick fantasy is he going to say that to his wife... Who knows but I'd like to hear what he claimed for a motive.

Now THIS short three plus minute video has some meat in it, haven't even watched it all yet because every few seconds I need to come comment on thoughts on it so I don't forget them all as I may have ten by the end of it for instance.

We are hitting that point where even though the P keeps what they can under wraps and will continue to do so, things start to have to come out in arguments about these issues, not all necessarily but some AND they may even refer to all in more detail just to argue the defendant's motion to suppress. I don't know if we will still get to trial but these hearings are pretrial hearings up close to trial date and that's when things start to be heard...

Things ONLY the murderer would know. I do think we've heard that before but now more solidified...