LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *GUILTY*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

1581272168478.png

Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


1581272119747.png


 
Last edited by a moderator:
So mommy did absolutely everything for him and now he just goes around life expecting other to do the same. :sigh:
yeah it sounds like a very convenient thing to have to me and instead of told by some doctor at a young age to maybe shape up and learn responsibility for self, they gave him a disorder and an explanation for needing all done for self. Seriously.

However, it is said it is the wife he is so dependent on but I don't doubt he just transferred his ways from one to the other...

He sure had no problem fending for self, being away from wife, planning sadistic killings of two local girls and doing all himself... Not too dependent then or did he ask her first? And ask for her help... And then for good measure go ask ma and MIL...
 
Been gone a month. But put another out now that back. Haven't watched. Going down for the count soon. Have it started and listening while I share this.

I spent the time I did have on Soto and that was beyond absorbing.

I also saw hours ago a video one could watch about his trip, and maybe some of his cooking lessons on his trip and was interested but then ran into Soto and that her mom's interview by LE was it and that's where my time went, and have other things going on with my home, work and more.

But as I start to fall asleep, going to share this link...

He is BACK and he is making up for it.



I wish I could have watched all including his trip video. Couldn't. Hope I get to. Lots going on and again got wrapped into Soto.

I am listening to as I start fighting closing my eyes though. And sharing.

 
About the first 9:30 minutes is all. He has really changed his tune in the last week or two. Of course he has some defense attorney cynicism on a few things but overall, sees defense in trouble. he also made some interesting remarks about deciding whether you are going to try to get a win for your client like acquittal, hung jury, etc. or you are going to play all your cards and show the prosecution well ahead of time where you are going to go with things if you can. And that's what they did. They gave them everything in the Frank's memos. Everything they think, everything they think wrong, a problem, etc... Every single thing. For the P to be prepared. While the P has stayed close to the vest throughout.

Not anything really new as to facts, just his takes on it all and he again says the D is crumbling and is in trouble. Less than ten minutes. He seems to think not always wise to put all out there as they have done and you have to choose one thing or the other. Do you want to create a record for appellate or get your client a not guilty verdict... And both don't go hand in hand. In fact you are playing your hand and showing it... While the P has never shown theirs...

Worth the ten minutes just for the takes on it all. Recent decisions. More.

 
No time to concentrate on this this morning either. Some house sale things and issues.

But heard that he will be doing a show after the status hearing Friday and will be announcing time probably today. Tom I mean.
 
I personally feel he ISC showed the last time, don't bother again. And I felt that was over but Hannah mentioned such in Tom's video and thought depending on if not allowed any other defense, they might. She wasn't a for sure or anything but could see it and see this being delayed by such again... And that's probably part of why they do it too, if they feel Gull won't delay or believe their grounds for delay, they stall with another appeal to the ISC.

I wasn't thinking such would happen though so I get ya.

He can't plead insanity??? HOW? They have avoided going that route, they want to use mental problems and stress of being in a prison but they don't want that done, him tested and so on, nor did they ever want the P getting his records.

Also there's no evidence of insanity when he killed the girls which is when imo he has to have been insane. No?

His things he is diagnosed with are very common and I called them a garden variety of things, meaning exactly that, these things "grow" everywhere. This disorder, that depression, very general. Hannah said the same but used another adjective, but something similar.

Yes more than once it is mentioned it was the wife he is so dependent on. I don't know if this is known from the psych doctor and testimony perhaps I'd guess?

However, I'm going to guess he was that way with mom or mom helped make him that way, one or the other and then it transferred to wife...

I find it a crock and a great way to avoid responsibility and put all of it on the partner, parent, whoever.

Anyhow they can't have an insanity please without having pursued the right examinations and more and again, I don't think his sanity has been questioned at all at the time of the murders. All they've said is about being in prison having caused such things.
Didn't Hannah also say something about when Brittany married, it affected him. Does anyone know what she meant by that? Affected him how?
 
I found him last night too or maybe it was this morning (but think last night). I didn't watch anything but simply subscribed so at least I can find him now when need be if I forget the name, etc. He is DEFINITELY ONE covering it and who will be at every minute of trial imo so now we have someone to watch. May take him some time to get it all out when a how many week trial but we should eventually hear a lot more of the testimony than we heard from regular reporters about simply a few days of hearings.

Did you watch any of these? I'm sure they'd have even more than Tom's show because a lot of that was him asking questions or chat with questions but then the two guests would go into some things as a result of answering something and Tom did not want to keep them all night either, but in his own shows and he has several it seems just covering the hearings, that you just linked, he probably covers every single thing he took notes on. His memory was VERY good of things said in court on Tom's show. He even reminded Hannah a few times, remember when this or that was said? I don't mean she didn't recall without him doing that, I have no idea, but he would bring things up he recalled which he though related to whatever the topic being talked of.
No i haven't watched them. I linked them for us so we had them and could find his channel easier.
 
Didn't Hannah also say something about when Brittany married, it affected him. Does anyone know what she meant by that? Affected him how?
I took this as a hypothetical although I did wonder if maybe part of it referred to something...?

It was if I recall and I think I do when Tom said in his opinion RA reading the evidence is what triggered his confessions... I THINK that's what it was, or something similar in that Hannah was saying it really doesn't matter because it could have been anything, like Brittany got married, his wife was done with him or unhappy on top of it, I forget her exact example, and this also happened, like three things, meaning THAT could have triggered the confessions. OR NO, it was actually an alleged psychotic break. That's what it was in response to. But she said it in a way I thought hypothetical. Say this was wrong and that was wrong, and that's what caused the break.

BUT the part about Brittany getting married and her saying that did catch my attention too... And perhaps she was using an example of true things that maybe he told the psych doctor... It really wasn't clear. But it was clear she was saying it could have been this and it could have been that or one side could claim this and the other that and that it really doesn't matter WHAT it was overall...
 
No i haven't watched them. I linked them for us so we had them and could find his channel easier.
I am SO glad we have someone who attends to watch that does far more than news did, even if it may take some time before he can cover it all. And I am so GLAD Tom is back as well. I am not done with that final live chat yet that is now of course a recording but watched some more tonight before I came over here and haven't gotten back to it yet.

IF I get a chance I may watch all of Aspen's you linked on these hearings. I know not all he recalls was covered in Tom's show. And his recall I noted a lot more than Hannah's. I'm not saying she does not have the same but he was bring up things constantly like remember this, and remember when so and so said that and so on.

I doubt I will get that time or chance but may try. Lots going on, really hard week, far more than the usual too much. In many areas, work, my home sale, more.

So the days off which are so needed I have finally hit will go to lost on such I am sure.

Today at break, this is how overboard the week was, I found myself at break wondering what my schedule is on Friday to see if I could watch Tom at 6 when I finally got my brain on something other than the work sh*t and went to look at the app on my phone for my schedule and then it was like duh, before I even got to it, I am always OFF Fridays so I don't work at all!! Never done that before.

However, I have to say even after all this time, since my weekends are Thursday and Friday, I do still think Saturdays are Mondays, etc., my first day back after my weekend. I worked for decades on end in office mgmnt and the weekend WAS the weekend.

I subscribed to Aspen, didn't watch anything or look much, just new from Tom's video with them I definitely want to see his coverage. Hers too if she had a channel, never had the impression she did. So at least if I can't recall the name yet, new to me, I can find him in my subscribed channel list. YT is not that great these days of throwing up videos on just the general page refresh of who I am subscribed to. They used to do four out of five and one more ad type video and now it is like one subscribed thing, two new ones they are trying to be more fair I think to new channels, and three add type things. Sick of it. But anyhow, point is, glad we know of him because news was not great on the hearings. Even though allegedly all who reported attended all three days. I'm not saying there weren't a few good articles and a few more in depth than others but still if five minutes instead of three, etc. that's it. They are limited by how news works to keeping it short.

These two told a LOT more of what was said, testimony and you name it in just not at long of a show with Tom. I'm sure Aspen's on his channel that you linked will be far more and cover everything he recalls and noted. That's what I am USED to these days in cases. But then we don't usually have a no tweets or recordings or anything mandate either...
 
i want to stress something and it reminded me in Tom's live I am watching after it was live--RA has NEVER been diagnosed with schizophrenia from all the testimony and talk of the hearings and more in this. And yes, Haldol is prescribed for it but someone on there is pointing out it usually onsets in ones 20s, RA is far older than that, and Haldol is often given as a mood stabilizer for both bi polar AND guess what, DEPRESSION. He knows because he had it for that very reason.

AND a nurse practitioner says she prescribes it and knows the side effects and all and nothing about it would cause someone to confess to something in he opinion.

Whether they are right or wrong, there has been NO SUCH diagnosis. And his own prison doc wondered about faking and noted such reasons.

What I heard is he displayed some schizo type behavior and that in no way means he has schizophrenia.

Also just ideal such comes on when needed at such a point in his life.

It's too bad we won't get to see this trial because I really want to hear the really bona fide experts interpret it all. Timing, timing, timing...

He is a snake, a game playing psychopath. Imo.

There was a lot in these videos and these hearings than we had heard and Tom's with them hasn't even covered all.

And not a bit of it relates to how he was when he killed the girls. It's all about the confessions and after being incarcerated.

But we KNOW he had like very general diagnoses of garden variety stuff, one being depression and Haldol is used to stabilize the mood. In no way was it ever said he was diagnosed schizoprenic and so was prescribed Haldol. People have jumped to that entirely.

And imo that's what they'd hope for...

Agree or disagree, I am just making clear based on what has been said about testimony it is not the case.
 


Go to about 50 minutes in, wait for I don't know 20, 30 seconds when a question comes on the screen of Rick finding God but then losing him...

LOL.

And listen to Tom's response to that one until done. LMAO. From Rome, and with a Vatican stamp....

He would NEVER do such, but I get such amusing thoughts in hard cases and life, us decent ones dream at times when pushed too far of giving back, but we don't actually do it...

He would NEVER but I bet he got some chuckles based on where he was when he heard about this and had what I find an amusing thought.... And a way to relieve the awfulness of this case.

It is just a minute or two and I gave ya all the link and the time stamp.

A good overall live, haven't shared a bit until this, but I thought it needed to be for a chuckle. And YET a good point... It won't take anyone any time at all.
 
i want to stress something and it reminded me in Tom's live I am watching after it was live--RA has NEVER been diagnosed with schizophrenia from all the testimony and talk of the hearings and more in this. And yes, Haldol is prescribed for it but someone on there is pointing out it usually onsets in ones 20s, RA is far older than that, and Haldol is often given as a mood stabilizer for both bi polar AND guess what, DEPRESSION. He knows because he had it for that very reason.

AND a nurse practitioner says she prescribes it and knows the side effects and all and nothing about it would cause someone to confess to something in he opinion.

Whether they are right or wrong, there has been NO SUCH diagnosis. And his own prison doc wondered about faking and noted such reasons.

What I heard is he displayed some schizo type behavior and that in no way means he has schizophrenia.

Also just ideal such comes on when needed at such a point in his life.

It's too bad we won't get to see this trial because I really want to hear the really bona fide experts interpret it all. Timing, timing, timing...

He is a snake, a game playing psychopath. Imo.

There was a lot in these videos and these hearings than we had heard and Tom's with them hasn't even covered all.

And not a bit of it relates to how he was when he killed the girls. It's all about the confessions and after being incarcerated.

But we KNOW he had like very general diagnoses of garden variety stuff, one being depression and Haldol is used to stabilize the mood. In no way was it ever said he was diagnosed schizoprenic and so was prescribed Haldol. People have jumped to that entirely.

And imo that's what they'd hope for...

Agree or disagree, I am just making clear based on what has been said about testimony it is not the case.
Why would he have been on medication for depression since he was 25? What happened at age 25? And now he is on schizoprenhia medication too so there has to be something wrong there. Also she mentioned something about RA's wife looking after his or her mother at one point so the wife couldn't give RA much attention. Do you recall that bit being discussed too?. But there's nothing wrong with him ? I don't buy it and neither does Wala by the sounds of it. No sane person brutally kills two teenage girls. I also hope they have checked him out for the Lyric and Lizzie murders too. (Have i got the names right? The two Illinois murders.)
It almost sounds like with this DPD they are trying to blame the wife for not giving him attention !!!!
 
Why would he have been on medication for depression since he was 25? What happened at age 25? And now he is on schizoprenhia medication too so there has to be something wrong there. Also she mentioned something about RA's wife looking after his or her mother at one point so the wife couldn't give RA much attention. Do you recall that bit being discussed too?. But there's nothing wrong with him ? I don't buy it and neither does Wala by the sounds of it. No sane person brutally kills two teenage girls. I also hope they have checked him out for the Lyric and Lizzie murders too. (Have i got the names right? The two Illinois murders.)
It almost sounds like with this DPD they are trying to blame the wife for not giving him attention !!!!
Well then the thing is the defense COULD GO THERE. And they WON'T. They want to use such but avoid going that far.

And it is not only schizo med and why are you saying he is on it, do you mean Haldol? It was used when he was acting out or do you mean something else?

The D can go with it or leave it and they have not went with it because it isn't there in my opinion.

I am not making things like depression minimal but do you know how common such has gotten? Or pain? How do we think things like oxy have been so over prescribed? Again not minimizing or saying such doesn't go on but not to the extent imo giving prescriptions benefits both sides either (well the patient thinks it benefits them) because they want it. Do people REALLY need such? YES. SOME.

RA seems to me to be almost passive aggressive. Using a term Olenna loved in Delphi. And a gaslighter. I don't like buzz words and talking like such as I think they are used way too often but have you watched his videos with family? We hear now he has dependent disorder (don't get me started on what I think of that) and yet what I see is a woman who probably wears the pants in the family and likely resentment that women do.... Mom? Wife??

You, no offense, talk to do such would mean you are insane because no sane person does such. You lose me there. He knew what he was doing, he knows what he was doing and in control when he knew he could not eat for three meals or days but don't go to a fourth because then they do something about it. Is any killer "sane"? Is CB? Is Kohberger? Was Lori or Chad Daybell? Are any of us for that matter?

It does NOT mean though there is any diagnosis or reason for an insanity defense to say they were insane and can be excused for murder no?

Now your last sentence, I totally get! Exactly. This is a gaslighter imo and again I hate such buzzwords. It is yes, others' fault as he was not getting enough attention but imo he also hates the control by women but turns things around and blames others for his behavior...

I get a lot of it and yeah I guess in most people's mind no killer is "sane" like those of us who would never do such but it does not mean they are insane or have a hope at an insanity defense, meaning not guilty by reason of insanity. So that's the part I am not following.

It's a pretty high standard, if they know right from wrong, the basis most of us know and just covering up the crime and lying, shows they know right from wrong. ID does not even have such. Not sure about IN.

The man knows what he is doing. Always has imo. Planned, intended, covered up, lied.

He knows in incarceration exactly how many meals he cannot eat even when supposedly at the worst mental status ever. I don't buy a bit of it.

And yeah, somehow it is probably also mom and wife's fault... Notice they can't accept a thing, even a confession directly to them by their "boy"...

And again the D wants to use mental stress, psychotic breaks, use all this stuff BUT THEY DO NOT WANT TO GO DOWN THE PATH of an INSANITY defense, WHY is that?

So I don't see where it matters. They need to go with it or it isn't an issue.

Do you really think killers like this aren't controlled and know exactly what they are doing and into doing it, just like with CB? It doesn't mean they just lost their mind and killed and are innocent due to that. They WANT IT.

I get what you mean and what you mean is no vicious killer is normal or sane. Not talking the same thing though. Trial is upon us and the D has not used an insanity defense nor ever tried. They just try to keep using mental talk and stress and breaks to explain everything. Well then GO THAT ROUTE. They clearly aren't as the facts aren't there. Although who even knows if they are or aren't as I don't consider them up to speed on anything...

Wala also questioned his faking I'd point out.

Lyric and Elizabeth yes. But it was Iowa.

If they haven't, then LE in either state or state LE don't follow up on anything. Meaning I would think and hope they checked it out. I'm not sure what they have to compare from that case as to how sue they could be. They definitely should try to determine where RA was at that time, work records, phone records, anything that can still do so and still may exist. Questions of wife and others as to did he take any trips, where did you live at the time, etc.
 
Well then the thing is the defense COULD GO THERE. And they WON'T. They want to use such but avoid going that far.

And it is not only schizo med and why are you saying he is on it, do you mean Haldol? It was used when he was acting out or do you mean something else?

The D can go with it or leave it and they have not went with it because it isn't there in my opinion.

I am not making things like depression minimal but do you know how common such has gotten? Or pain? How do we think things like oxy have been so over prescribed? Again not minimizing or saying such doesn't go on but not to the extent imo giving prescriptions benefits both sides either (well the patient thinks it benefits them) because they want it. Do people REALLY need such? YES. SOME.

RA seems to me to be almost passive aggressive. Using a term Olenna loved in Delphi. And a gaslighter. I don't like buzz words and talking like such as I think they are used way too often but have you watched his videos with family? We hear now he has dependent disorder (don't get me started on what I think of that) and yet what I see is a woman who probably wears the pants in the family and likely resentment that women do.... Mom? Wife??

You, no offense, talk to do such would mean you are insane because no sane person does such. You lose me there. He knew what he was doing, he knows what he was doing and in control when he knew he could not eat for three meals or days but don't go to a fourth because then they do something about it. Is any killer "sane"? Is CB? Is Kohberger? Was Lori or Chad Daybell? Are any of us for that matter?

It does NOT mean though there is any diagnosis or reason for an insanity defense to say they were insane and can be excused for murder no?

Now your last sentence, I totally get! Exactly. This is a gaslighter imo and again I hate such buzzwords. It is yes, others' fault as he was not getting enough attention but imo he also hates the control by women but turns things around and blames others for his behavior...

I get a lot of it and yeah I guess in most people's mind no killer is "sane" like those of us who would never do such but it does not mean they are insane or have a hope at an insanity defense, meaning not guilty by reason of insanity. So that's the part I am not following.

It's a pretty high standard, if they know right from wrong, the basis most of us know and just covering up the crime and lying, shows they know right from wrong. ID does not even have such. Not sure about IN.

The man knows what he is doing. Always has imo. Planned, intended, covered up, lied.

He knows in incarceration exactly how many meals he cannot eat even when supposedly at the worst mental status ever. I don't buy a bit of it.

And yeah, somehow it is probably also mom and wife's fault... Notice they can't accept a thing, even a confession directly to them by their "boy"...

And again the D wants to use mental stress, psychotic breaks, use all this stuff BUT THEY DO NOT WANT TO GO DOWN THE PATH of an INSANITY defense, WHY is that?

So I don't see where it matters. They need to go with it or it isn't an issue.

Do you really think killers like this aren't controlled and know exactly what they are doing and into doing it, just like with CB? It doesn't mean they just lost their mind and killed and are innocent due to that. They WANT IT.

I get what you mean and what you mean is no vicious killer is normal or sane. Not talking the same thing though. Trial is upon us and the D has not used an insanity defense nor ever tried. They just try to keep using mental talk and stress and breaks to explain everything. Well then GO THAT ROUTE. They clearly aren't as the facts aren't there. Although who even knows if they are or aren't as I don't consider them up to speed on anything...

Wala also questioned his faking I'd point out.

Lyric and Elizabeth yes. But it was Iowa.

If they haven't, then LE in either state or state LE don't follow up on anything. Meaning I would think and hope they checked it out. I'm not sure what they have to compare from that case as to how sue they could be. They definitely should try to determine where RA was at that time, work records, phone records, anything that can still do so and still may exist. Questions of wife and others as to did he take any trips, where did you live at the time, etc.
We actually don't know what he was diagnosed with when he was 25. Only that he was put on Prozac. Now he is on Haldol too yet there is nothing wrong with him except DPD? I do not buy that there is nothing wrong with him. A murderer who has a come to Jesus moment and wants to give free photos and bibles to the parents of the girls he murdered - a sick psycho who has to be medicated to prevent harming or topping himself. What is the purpose of him faking it, if he is faking it? You mention CB and it is a good comparison, a guy still living in the house of his mother's. Yeah and I don't think he is sane either. Both are sick mad bastards IMO.
 
Last edited:
We actually don't know what he was diagnosed with when he was 25. Only that he was put on Prozac. Now he is on Haldol too yet there is nothing wrong with him except DPD? I do not buy that there is nothing wrong with him. A murderer who has a come to Jesus moment and wants to give free photos and bibles to the parents of the girls he murdered - a sick psycho who has to be medicated to prevent harming or topping himself. What is the purpose of him faking it, if he is faking it? You mention CB and it is a good comparison, a guy still living in the house of his mother's. Yeah and I don't think he is sane either. Both are sick mad bastards IMO.
Boy, I don't know how to explain it in that we are on the same page but not, understanding the other but not. Agreeing but not. Lol. Is he "on" Haldol? Where does that come from? All I know is per the D I think he was given it when acting out, banging head and you name it.

What does he get from it? What every defendant who fakes such sh*t does, he was trying to get into a hospital (also mentioned) and pull anything he can. Prisoners have fasted, eaten their feces, eaten paper, such is nothing new to fake insanity and you name it.

God I've heard of such decades and decades ago. He knows exactly what he is doing.

You confuse me because then you say a comparison with CB is apt.

I think it comes down to the definition of legal insanity or not guilty by reason of insanity is our differing...

Wala and more made a point of how even if he had some psychotic break he was in control and knew exactly what he was doing and could play games and she thought him possibly faking.

What is almost every serial killer or major con artist? It's mind games. it is trying to best the other side, others, etc.

I guess you can call that insanity. I don't. You aren't not guilty by reason of insanity if you know exactly what you are doing and right from wrong.

Yes, I guess we'd like to and think probably likely any intentional murderer, torturer, etc. insane. They sure aren't like most of us, THANK GOD. BUT they AREN'T in that they know exactly what they are doing, by the legal standard. These are human concepts and ideas and labels and so on.

They would probably say they are the norm and we are all idiots. (People like CB, BK, RA)

I think we are talking a bit at cross purposes and not getting the other.

YES anyone who can torture and kill like this has something wrong with them if that's what you mean. It does not mean guilty by reason of insanity or that they are insane. They have no morals, no empathy and indulge in what they want and fantasize and care less about who they hurt both in family and victims... If that's what you mean, yes, I agree.

But he knows what he was doing, planning, etc. and that it was wrong by world rules, moral rules, standards. They don't care. It's all for self.

Just talked to my realtor, day more than half shot and worse than the norm for accomplishing nothing.

I kind of get your point but not entirely. They do not have an insanity defense here and are not seeking one. Why is that?

Do you know how many people these days even in every generation or most younger than us play and are diagnosed with reasons they can't do this, that, or can't cope...? It's like a THING.

He's a cat, not a mouse. He's a wolf, not a sheep. He's all about him and his indulgences. So is CB. No holds barred. Many. Insane? I don't think so.

I think you are looking at that as meaning you have to be abnormal to do such things and yes you do. No empathy, no rules, self indulgent to the most wicked thoughts and can't temper self and at some point indulge in it. No rules stop you. And you enjoy and dream of it and know exactly what you are doing.

It doesn't mean you are insane or not guilty. And the whole insanity thing is a human concept.

RA knows exactly what he is doing, just as CB. Always has. And knows it to be wrong.

And I am sorry but his wife and mom are idiots, enablers and have fallen for such their entire lives most likely.

So been a day with the house thing already, nothing done, but to dial this down to the point, why is it you think there can be an insanity defense? They can't go there unless they open it and him up to it. Lori Daybell was incompetent for a bit twice at least until restored to competency, couldn't go there. RA they don't go there at all, they just want to use the mental stress, conditions, etc. but don't want to open that box. The D.

He is a fox. And I don't mean that in a complimentary like he's pretty or handsome way. He is sly as can be.

Just my opinion lol.

Man a day off I feel is already shot. The whole house thing big time. Work big time this week too.

Nothing done. I need to at least get laundry in.

Not even sure that will happen at this rate.

Had plans with the daughter to get on moving my things re home sale and that has had to go by the wayside.

Anyhow, this case is going to start to go and has or if it does not again, we do learn more. Prosecution still holds tight to the vest, I am actually impressed by that, while the D, even per Scott Reisch has pretty much shot their load and shown their cards... And he, a defense attorney, was not talking that way a couple of weeks ago...
 
I know that there is a point at which someone is considered insane as opposed to merely disturbed or physchotic. Maybe that is the key and he has these disturbed episodes where what he has done is laid out in discovery and sends him over the edge when he realises his family are going to read it too. It is that realisation that disturbs him, not the actual fact he committed the murders in the first place. That is what I am finding hard to understand. Has he turned to the bible in an attempt to accept what he has done? Is he seeking forgiveness? Is he sorry for what he did? Is he denying what he did? Which of these is RA?

Unless he and his attorneys can work this out, there will be a problem with how he will plead IMO.
 
Just came across this report from earlier in the month that has more detail of RA's time in Westville and his interviews and treatment. Very detailed.

Indiana State Police investigator says Richard Allen confessed 61 times to Delphi murders

Indiana State Police investigator says Richard Allen confessed 61 times to Delphi murders

The revelation came during a day filled with surprising testimony as Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen returned to court for a second day of hearings.​

Richard Allen

Richard Allen(Allen County Sheriff's Department)
By WTHR
Published: Aug. 1, 2024 at 11:18 PM BST





DELPHI, Ind. (WTHR) — The man accused of killing two Delphi teenagers has confessed more than 60 times to committing the murders, according to an Indiana State Police detective assigned to the case.

That revelation came during a day filled with surprising testimony as Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen returned to court for a second day of hearings before his October trial.

Wednesday’s hearing focused on motions from Allen’s defense team that seek to suppress incriminating statements the defendant made while behind bars at the Westville Correctional Facility.

Allen has been locked up in maximum security state prisons for 21 months since his arrest for allegedly killing Abby Williams and Libby German in Delphi in early 2017.

The Carroll County prosecutor says it has dozens of confessions from Allen to present to a jury, and multiple witnesses backed up that claim during Wednesday’s surprising testimony.

RELATED: Prosecutors and Richard Allen’s attorneys clash over information sharing at Delphi murders hearing

But defense attorney Brad Rozzi presented evidence suggesting the confessions were coerced due to improper policies and intentional actions taken by investigators and prison staff that violated Allen’s constitutional rights.

The eight-plus hours of compelling testimony, legal arguments and evidence leave special judge Frances Gull with plenty to consider as she decides one of the most important questions still lingering ahead of the Delphi murders trial: Will jurors get to hear about Allen’s confessions or will the statements be considered off limits and inadmissible at trial?


Confession to the prison warden​

Allen’s defense attorney told the judge his client was sent to one of the state’s harshest prison environments following his 2022 arrest, assigned to cell 107 inside the A-Block of the Westville Correctional Unit. During testimony, former Westville warden John Galipeau acknowledged the isolation unit “is like a prison inside a prison,” usually reserved for convicted criminals facing disciplinary action inside the prison or those who require very close supervision.

Allen was assigned to the maximum security prison to await trial despite having no previous criminal history. The Carroll County prosecutor requested a safekeeping order to house Allen in a prison rather than in the Carroll County jail because the county sheriff said he did not have adequate staff to ensure Allen’s safety.

Galipeau admitted he was not aware of any other pre-trial detainee being assigned to the harsh conditions of the Westville Correctional Unit’s 8 x 12-foot isolation cells during the warden’s 28 years in the Indiana Department of Correction, and he said Allen was placed there at the direction of top IDOC administrators so he could be observed under the prison’s suicide watch protocols.

Those protocols include an in-cell video camera that recorded Allen 24 hours a day, as well as other inmates assigned as “suicide companions” to stand watch outside Allen’s cell.

The defense claims some of those other inmates violated prison rules by talking with Allen about his criminal charges – documenting Allen’s statements for prison staff and, in some cases, also sharing Allen’s statements with their own family members. The inmate suicide companions were then replaced by prison guards who stood watch and who also documented any incriminating statements made by Allen, according to the former warden.

Richard Allen's attorneys Andrew Baldwin and Brad Rozzi.

Richard Allen's attorneys Andrew Baldwin and Brad Rozzi.(WTHR)
While stationed outside Allen’s cell, both inmates and guards reported that he confessed to the Delphi murders. Galipeau testified that Allen also confessed committing the murders directly to him during one of the warden’s frequent visits to Allen’s cell block to check on inmates.

“He confessed,” Galipeau told the judge, adding that he never asked Allen about the murders and never told his prison guards to speak with Allen about the charges.

Another witness told the judge about other confessions.

Kenneva Mapps, a lead investigator at the Westville prison, testified that her staff logged two confessions that Allen made while inside the prison and then turned those confessions over to Indiana State Police investigators who issued a subpoena for the records.

Dozens of other confessions​

The day’s most memorable witness was longtime Indiana State Police detective Brian Harshman, who is assigned to monitor all reports, videos and phone calls involving Allen while the murder defendant has been in prison.

Asked how many incriminating statements Allen has made behind bars, Harshman responded “60-plus direct confessions.” He said some of those confessions included specifics of the Delphi murders that only the actual murderer would know, as well as motivation for the crimes. (The detective did not elaborate with additional details.)

DELPHI: Prosecutor files motion arguing Richard Allen’s attorneys should be found in contempt...

DELPHI: Prosecutor files motion arguing Richard Allen’s attorneys should be found in contempt of court(WPTA)
Harshman also testified that the confessions started in March 2023 after Allen started reading a bible in his prison cell and began proclaiming that he had “found God.”

He said many of the confessions came during Allen’s phone calls with his wife and mother, with the early confessions resulting in “initial disbelieve and shock.” Harshman said as time went on and Allen made additional incriminating statements to his family, they responded with “They’re messing with your mind” or “Stop talking about it.”

During much of Harshman’s testimony, Allen shook his head in disagreement while sitting alongside his attorneys.

“We’re talking about 61 [incriminating] statements made over the course of two months,” said Stacy Diener, an attorney representing the Carroll County prosecutor’s office. “His statements were unsolicited.”

RELATED: Delphi murders | Indiana Supreme Court refuses to remove special judge Frances Gull

“Serious mental illness”​

A prison psychologist who met regularly with Allen testified that she also heard Allen confess to the murders. But Dr. Monica Wala said Allen’s mental health was “extremely poor, critical and deteriorating,” and that he suffered from stress-induced psychosis at the time he made his confessions.

She also testified there was “no doubt” he had serious mental illness around that time, evidenced by Allen’s attempts to “beat his head into the wall.” According to notes that Wala recorded in Allen’s medical chart:

March 23, 2023: Allen was depressed and withdrawn and said he “was not straight in the head.”

April 4, 2023: Allen suffered from insomnia, hopelessness, was suicidal, and stated “death would bring relief to him.”

April 13, 2023: Allen was exhibiting “bizarre” behavior, including consuming his own feces, and was suffering from a “grave disability.” The prison psychologist ordered Allen receive an involuntary injection of psychotropic medication.

April 21, 2023: Allen’s thoughts were disjointed and he was saying “strange things.” Wala discussed that he might be considered incompetent to stand trial.

May 3, 2023: Allen said he wanted to confess details of the crime.

May 18, 2023: Allen receives another dose of psychotropic medication.

May 23, 2023: Allen diagnosed as suffering from stress-induced psychosis.

June 8, 2023: Allen’s depression “at its peak,” noted trembling, knees buckling.

June 16, 2023: Allen receives another dose of psychotropic medication.

Late June 2023: Allen’s mental health improving.

October 2023: Allen was proclaiming his innocence.

Richard Allen's attorneys described his conditions at Westville Correctional Fcility as akin...

Richard Allen's attorneys described his conditions at Westville Correctional Fcility as "akin to those of a prisoner of war."(Carroll Circuit Court)
Allen’s defense team claims the confessions fall within the timeframe of Allen’s severe psychosis diagnosed by prison psychologists.

They told the judge the IDOC failed to provide Allen adequate mental health care during that time because prison staff and investigators prioritized his status as a “safekeeper” inmate who had to be monitored around-the-clock in an isolation cell rather than following department guidelines that requires inmates – especially those suffering from severe mental illness – be housed in isolation no longer than 30 days. Allen has been held in isolation status for 19 months.

Rozzi said keeping Allen in those conditions while also placing other inmates and guards outside his cell to record his statements, constantly videotaping his behavior and movements and monitoring all of his texts and phone calls resulted in multiple violations of Allen’s civil rights, including his right to due process, his right to legal counsel, his right against self-incrimination and cruel and unusual punishment.

“This comes down to whether actions by the state constitute an interrogation and whether he had a right to have his attorneys present under the Sixth Amendment,” Rozzi told the judge.

Because he believes the confessions were essentially coerced, Rozzi wants the judge to suppress all the confessions, which means a jury would not hear them during the murder trial.

Thursday morning, he and Diener will summarize their arguments for the judge, and she is then expected to take the issue under advisement with a ruling coming within the next several weeks.

Gull’s decision will be incredibly important for both sides and could directly impact the outcome of the trial.

Other notes from Wednesday’s hearing​

The prison psychologist assigned to treat Allen while he served time at the Westville Correctional Facility testified that she has long been fascinated by the Delphi murders and that she and her boyfriend traveled together to Delphi so they could visit the crime scene and stand on the Monon High Bridge prior to learning of Allen’s arrest.

Dr. Monica Wala said she frequently listens to true crime podcasts about the Delphi murders case during her commute to the Westville prison and has commented on social media about which of those podcasts she recommends. She also admitted she used her IDOC-issued computer to research other people mentioned as having possible involvement in the murders, a possible violation of department policy.

Wala testified that she also spoke with Allen about the positive comments she has read online from his supporters, and she advised him not to discuss his possible involvement in the murders with anyone other than his defense attorneys. Asked by Rozzi if her actions presented a conflict of interest and ethical problems, Wala responded “I disagree.”

Allen County Judge Fran Gull, appointed as the special judge in the Delphi murders case.

Allen County Judge Fran Gull, appointed as the special judge in the Delphi murders case.(WTHR)
Judge Gull announced 600 residents in Allen County will soon receive a jury questionnaire by mail, informing them they must report for jury duty on Oct. 14 to serve as possible jurors for the Delphi murders trial. Gull plans jury selection to take three days, and 100 potential jurors will be interviewed each day until all jurors and alternates are selected.

The Allen County clerk previously sent jury questionnaires to 600 Allen County residents when Allen’s murder trial was scheduled to take place in May. The trial was postponed until October, requiring the court to release members of the previous jury pool and start over. The jury will be selected from Allen County – not Carroll County where the murders took place – to find an impartial jury following years of intense media attention surrounding the murders.

Allen’s defense team informed the judge Wednesday morning they wanted to withdraw a second motion to suppress statements that Allen made to investigators on the day he was arrested. The defense team claimed Allen was not read his Miranda rights prior to being interviewed by an Indiana State Police investigator. The defense dropped that request at the start of Wednesday’s hearing.

One last issue is scheduled for legal arguments before the pre-trial hearings wrap up on Thursday. The Carroll County prosecutor wants Gull to prohibit the defense from discussing a long list of subjects with the jury, and he will make his case for those limitations by presenting more witnesses and evidence.

The most significant issue is whether the judge will disallow the defense from presenting its theory that other suspects with ties to Odinism murdered Abby and Libby as part of a pagan ritualistic sacrifice. The defense claims investigators and prosecutors ignored credible leads and recommendations from other law enforcement officials pointing toward specific individuals who have Odinistic tattoos and/or posts on their social media sites that match markings found at the crime scene.

Richard Allen, the suspect in the 2017 murders of Abby Williams and Libby German, is led into...

Richard Allen, the suspect in the 2017 murders of Abby Williams and Libby German, is led into the Carroll County Courthouse by police officers for his hearing on June 15, 2023.(WTHR)
Prosecutor Nick McLeland wants the judge to restrict all references to those alternate suspects and related investigation reports from other law enforcement officers because he claims they lack relevance and would confuse the jury.

An icy relationship between Judge Gull and Richard Allen’s defense teams seems to have thawed. After many months of conflict and contentious interactions – including Gull and Allen’s lawyers asking the Indiana Supreme Court to remove the other from the case – both sides have displayed nothing but professionalism, patience and courtesy throughout the first two days of pre-trial hearings. At one point during Wednesday’s hearing, Gull and defense attorney Brad Rozzi were smiling at one another and seemed to be sharing a lighter moment during a brief meeting between the judge and attorneys.

While the climate is improving inside the courtroom, Rozzi could not catch a break outside the courthouse. He left Tuesday’s hearing to discover Carroll County law enforcement had issued him a parking ticket for parking along the Courthouse Square for more than two hours.
 
I know that there is a point at which someone is considered insane as opposed to merely disturbed or physchotic. Maybe that is the key and he has these disturbed episodes where what he has done is laid out in discovery and sends him over the edge when he realises his family are going to read it too. It is that realisation that disturbs him, not the actual fact he committed the murders in the first place. That is what I am finding hard to understand. Has he turned to the bible in an attempt to accept what he has done? Is he seeking forgiveness? Is he sorry for what he did? Is he denying what he did? Which of these is RA?

Unless he and his attorneys can work this out, there will be a problem with how he will plead IMO.
Well we certainly can and do agree on this. That we can't understand these types and don't think like them. Thank God. Certainly does not mean they are legally insane though.

I totally get the not comprehending them who is us does? I would worry if we did totally.

I mean I can't even stand these women that stand by a very evil man and in Asa's case profit from it. I could never be that kind of person.

Then we have RA's mom and wife. And others. I've mentioned such in more than a few cases.

I've seen nothing that makes him insane by the legal standard and again the defense wants to use mental health and incarceration as an excuse BUT they won't go down the full road. Imo because they KNOW there is no meat there.

I'm not even convinced he is disturbed with what his family would find out either, other than he loses anyone on the outside who supports him, puts money in his account, etc.

I mean where was God, his conscience, his guilt and you nave it for the last five or more years. Just like Asa with CB, they need them so one can hope one day to get butter...

This is jmo but you said it yourself not long ago as I recall, wow the sudden guilty, and timing and you name it, where WAS IT? When the family and world were worried about who was out there and who did this?

Every prisoner county and prison finds God or Jesus. I've seen it personally myself. It is a thing. And he even knew how many meals he could skip before would be interested with or intubated. Who do we think he was hearing such or learning such from?

I don't necessarily think we disagree so much as are missing each other.

I guess bottom line is do you think he's not guilty by reason of insanity? Because I see no such thing.
 
Well we certainly can and do agree on this. That we can't understand these types and don't think like them. Thank God. Certainly does not mean they are legally insane though.

I totally get the not comprehending them who is us does? I would worry if we did totally.

I mean I can't even stand these women that stand by a very evil man and in Asa's case profit from it. I could never be that kind of person.

Then we have RA's mom and wife. And others. I've mentioned such in more than a few cases.

I've seen nothing that makes him insane by the legal standard and again the defense wants to use mental health and incarceration as an excuse BUT they won't go down the full road. Imo because they KNOW there is no meat there.

I'm not even convinced he is disturbed with what his family would find out either, other than he loses anyone on the outside who supports him, puts money in his account, etc.

I mean where was God, his conscience, his guilt and you nave it for the last five or more years. Just like Asa with CB, they need them so one can hope one day to get butter...

This is jmo but you said it yourself not long ago as I recall, wow the sudden guilty, and timing and you name it, where WAS IT? When the family and world were worried about who was out there and who did this?

Every prisoner county and prison finds God or Jesus. I've seen it personally myself. It is a thing. And he even knew how many meals he could skip before would be interested with or intubated. Who do we think he was hearing such or learning such from?

I don't necessarily think we disagree so much as are missing each other.

I guess bottom line is do you think he's not guilty by reason of insanity? Because I see no such thing.
I don't know if he is insane. Something tells me you have to be insane or at least something not right to do this. There was a young guy from Delphi who was at school with Libby's sister and he brutally killed an ex boyfriend of his girlfriend and hid him in a cupboard. He lived in Lafayette and he pled insanity. I followed the trial. At one time I suspected him of being BG. But since they arrested RA, who admitted being on the trails, then i have been convinced it is him and with the confessions and all the other evidence I think they have the right guy.
 
I don't know if he is insane. Something tells me you have to be insane or at least something not right to do this. There was a young guy from Delphi who was at school with Libby's sister and he brutally killed an ex boyfriend of his girlfriend and hid him in a cupboard. He lived in Lafayette and he pled insanity. I followed the trial. At one time I suspected him of being BG. But since they arrested RA, who admitted being on the trails, then i have been convinced it is him and with the confessions and all the other evidence I think they have the right guy.
Wow, how did I never hear of that one??

I have followed this long before here and at JT and I think most of us have followed it for years. I have entertained many a person and most have.

I mean we were talking of it there constantly, what about his guy who was arrested for this that lived an hour away, that guy who was in trouble for this that lived close, etc., etc., etc.

But never was I solid on a one until RA. He's just THE FIT. All else just fell away. I mean I really had trouble with KK even in more recent years...It's all just still too weird he was talking with Libby and arranging a meeting.

All I can figure and bless them, is that these girls or one were trying to find a bf and meet a guy they thought to be young and not someone catfishing, and perhaps more than one.

The voice is going to be a big clincher in this. The voice put me over the top. I already was on board but that really did it. It will for a jury too.

So what happened with the insanity plea in the cupboard case, I mean is he in a hospital and not prison? or found not guilty by reason of?

All I am or was saying is they can't do that here and if they were going to, they would have had to state that route and evaluations done and a lot more. They want to use his mental health but they don't want to go down that road for some reason... I suspect because they know it would not hold up...

I get that for any of us to look at any killer, they can't be normal to us and so must have some insanity. But it's a complex subject really and I don't think they are in most cases, I think they know exactly what they are doing and are quite cunning or they think they are, controlled and plan such. I think this was planned.

The remarks by Hannah and is it Aspen (I always forget) about his gifting the pictures and wanting to give his Bible to the family and if he is the killer, how absolutely intentionally doing such is chilling. They said if that is the case, how he is a level beyond even what has ever been seen and she'd like to see him studied then for lack of a better word, that is NOT how she said it, my poor wording. Tired.

I see him as entirely cold and calculated even during all his "trauma" in a prison... I can't explain it but sometimes I just can really trust my instincts (not always or maybe I ignore them) and I'm just convinced he is even worse than is known... I don't mean he has necessarily killed before but I do mean this man is someone who has always hidden his true nature and wanted to do this. If we ever hear the motive he apparently gave I think his wife and mom, I'm not sure if I will buy it or think he told the truth as to motive... I hope we get to hear such.

And in the midst of all of this and the wee hours between middle of night and morning and saying all this, it strikes me out of the blue the loss of these girls and how they dealt with total evil. It gets so forgotten and all becomes about the defendant. It did in ours too and for the family, it is never lost, and can be very resented. So it just hit me at this moment and so saying it and taking a moment to think about the girls and the families. I guarantee it is not what of course all of us are focused on for the most part these days but for them, it is never forgotten. And this whole circus revolving around RA just adds tons to it and makes him the focus. Such is salt to open wounds.

Man has it been an exhausting up and down day. Dozed off, awoke in chair, should have went to bed but did not. Still should and get a couple more hours. I texted my boss as early as yesterday saying I really could use Saturday off IF can be done. Two days ahead. Selling my home in another state and swear the experience is going to kill me! Whole day lost to it yesterday!

She had to text the manager that will be on this weekend and will get back to me. I said if need be, I can do it, but IF they could give me the day, I'd appreciate it big time and could really use it.

No laundry done. No nothing done and here I am up at 3:33 a.m. Lol. Triple same digits. I have a thing with that...
 

Forum statistics

Threads
3,007
Messages
240,707
Members
967
Latest member
minaji88
Back
Top Bottom