LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *GUILTY*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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Not a Vinnie fan, a closing arguments fan. There isn't a lot I'm interested in going on right now, so I haven't watched it in awhile.
Well okay. 'this one was a bit interesting but I am a bit the same. Most of his own shows I've seen, his personal ones, I'm not a big fan of. But I'm not of all the Court TV ones either. I did think you might be interested as the RL thing was discussed as to third party defense. If not, no biggie.

At this point, I'm just waiting for trial, I think we all are and not that we haven't been there at least once before and then it never went off at the last minute. I'm not counting on it this time either but this time it would really be the last pushing it over what should ever happen if such did happen.

There's really nothing more that can be fleshed out with any of us and we are just the ones who watch and care, not the families nor parties, I can't even imagine.

It needs to be tried because everything and anything under the sun has been argued, discussed, debated, even between all of us, that can be. Imo.

I do think you'd like a part of this show. Vinnie did have a pic of RL and of BG side by side that was quite impactful, even to me...

The goofiness and Timberlake sh*t and stuff just wasn't my speed when I thought I was watching a show about the crime but they were just being I guess their funny selves... They compared the "young" 2nd sketch to Justin Timberlake is where that comes from...

Anyhow...

If this trial was to only be a week, and was to be televised, I'd quite possibly call in sick all week for the first time ever... Half serious.

This SOOO needs to be tried, not only for us the public but far more so for the families. IT IS TIME. Past time. Imo.
 
I go back and forth on Vinnie. I'm not always a fan. I haven't watched this all yet and it's his personal newer YT channel but I am recommending just the start of it even. He has done a reel of pics of him and his regular two guests kind of a blast from the past thing that is kind of interesting and entertaining, when all younger through the years, etc. And then Al has one pretty neat presidential facts that I'm not sure I knew all of, presidents from way back. McKinley, Roosevelt, more. Just the lead in is worth a watch and kind of cool.

Haven't watched the show yet. They are just getting into the Delphi part now...

I'll wait to see whether I agree with him/them or not...



They can't even mention Ron Logan!! I just started watching this.
 
Not surprisingly I am not in agreement with them. Also Al says this defense got the first male judge thrown off and that's not true is it? That one stepped down out of fear from what we understood.

I also think unless I have it wrong Vinnie and friends have it wrong. They are talking like of how the D can't mention RL. The defense NEVER went for a third party defense with RL NOR KK. They did with the Os. This is too late in the game and I don't think having a third party defense and it coming up at all are quite the same thing. I don't know that they have it exactly straight.

I have said myself the D would have been smarter to use one of these other two as a possible third party defense because there are ties, even if tenous where there really is not with the O thing. RL owned the land and he did lie re an alibi. KK did try to arrange a meeting with Libby and had actual contact with her on the internet. FAR more viable than the dumb O thing. But hey needed something big and blowing up because their unguided and unrepresented and unhelped client had started confessing all over the place and so they went for an all out ridiculous blizzard.

I've said a million times, by one day, just the timing of everything in this case tells the story...

Vinnie is even having to tell Al some of the facts so I wouldn't say they are well versed on the case. And Al said the D had the first male judge removed for bias and then went after the second judge (Gull)... I have never heard that before about the first one. HOWEVER being threats were coming and they are the internet leakers and YT users and such well maybe there is something to where the threats were coming from.... Otherwise what is that about or is he just entirely mixed up and doesn't know sh*t about the case?
I think the P did put in a motion that third parties such as KK, RL could not be brought up. However, i think judge Gull said she is scheduling a date to discuss it but I think she will allow the P motion.

Yes, the programme is wrong about the first judge. He recused himself. I think he was worried about his family but i don't know why.
 
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I think the P did put in a motion that third parties such as KK, RL could not be brought up. However, i think judge Gull said she is scheduling a date to discuss it but I think she will allow the P motion.

Yes, the programme is wrong about the first judge. He recused himself. I think he was worried about his family but i don't know why.

Odinists?
 
They can't even mention Ron Logan!! I just started watching this.
Where have you been? Pretty sure we said this when the decision came out. All were also asked they not be talked of in the Ps motion in limine filed quite some time ago which is what the decision was for. They can't mention the Os, RL or KK in a third party defense. They NEVER tried to show evidence re KK or RL or perhaps that would be different. The Os there simply is not even CLOSE to enough or any real evidence but that's the route they chose.
 
Well, I stopped listening. I want to know about the case, NOT boy bands.
Wasn't into the boy band thing either but that's what happens on a personal YT channel that they I guess try to add their own personality and sh*t to. it doesn't go on long though and the rest of it is all about the case.
 
I think the P did put in a motion that third parties such as KK, RL could not be brought up. However, i think judge Gull said she is scheduling a date to discuss it but I think she will allow the P motion.

Yes, the programme is wrong about the first judge. He recused himself. I think he was worried about his family but i don't know why.
I don't know of her scheduling anything further? She did leave the door open if they come up with evidence so to speak, they can ask at trial and argue such at sidebar or chambers, I forget which.

Yeah I know. I think that particular regular one of the two guests of Vinnie wasn't up on everything perfectly in the case. The judge claimed he and family were being threatened, doxed even I think, and I can't recall if he said on the internet or via what but that's was the impression and I think what was said. He wanted NO PART of it.

It is where I do give Gull some credit. One can only imagine she has dealt with the same and maybe even worse as many don't like her decisions but she has stayed the course over the male judge's fear.

Yeah, I don't consider Court TV or even Vinnie on his personal show and guest/s the best at facts. Nancy Grace is similar, she often gets some facts wrong. None always, but often enough.
 
The post about the judge recusing himself due to fear.
I kind of guessed that was likely what you meant but I fail to follow that whatsoever.

LE wasn't looking at Os that was long before. I doubt B & R, the D was even appointed yet for RA and even if they were it would be a LONG time before they ever thought a thing about the Os. And why would the Os, any of them threaten this first judge, they weren't the ones charged and under arrest, RA was?

I fail to see your reasoning, if you have reasoning for this. It doesn't make any sense. The only ones that would make sense threatening the judge would be those that thought RA innocent or some such OR just general threats to ensure he see to it justice was done with the perp now in jail. Or maybe those yeah thinking someone else guilty... But the Os would feel free and clear, they make no sense imo.

Personally, I also think this case is simply the last thing that judge wanted on his plate. It had SERIOUS attention on the internet and through the nation and world for many years. Not everyone WANTS to be part of a case bound to be high profile, full of work, trouble, filings, publicity and I think he's one who had no such interest in being the one to handle the case for years to come as such cases often turn out to be.

If B & R were already on, which I don't think they likely were and sure had not seen RA by then well I guess their leaks and use of people in the intent world could have been responsible for threats to any judge who would try RA but I don't even think that likely...

I see NO reason the Os would threaten him. Why?
 
I don't know of her scheduling anything further? She did leave the door open if they come up with evidence so to speak, they can ask at trial and argue such at sidebar or chambers, I forget which.

Yeah I know. I think that particular regular one of the two guests of Vinnie wasn't up on everything perfectly in the case. The judge claimed he and family were being threatened, doxed even I think, and I can't recall if he said on the internet or via what but that's was the impression and I think what was said. He wanted NO PART of it.

It is where I do give Gull some credit. One can only imagine she has dealt with the same and maybe even worse as many don't like her decisions but she has stayed the course over the male judge's fear.

Yeah, I don't consider Court TV or even Vinnie on his personal show and guest/s the best at facts. Nancy Grace is similar, she often gets some facts wrong. None always, but often enough.
I think she is having a day to discuss it and other stuff nearer to the beginning of the trial, is what I meant by that. They often have a pre trial conference for such things. Like that stupid one in Vallow's the other day discussing a media leak. Maybe she is hoping he will cop a plea before the need for that rubbish.
 
The publicity around the case more likely.
I agree, I simply do not think he had any wish to be on it.

Also it could be as simple as people on the internet researching him and his family. It's not unheard of the minute a judge is appointed, they want to see who it is, what his or her record is, know a bit about him and more. Such probably happened and it freaked him or a member/s of his family out. They've likely never had such happen. Judges live pretty quiet lives for protection. He's unlikely ever had something so high profile in this area.

And just LOOK at all the focus on Gull throughout, I bet he has been glad of the decision he made a million times over and so has his family.
 
I think she is having a day to discuss it and other stuff nearer to the beginning of the trial, is what I meant by that. They often have a pre trial conference for such things. Like that stupid one in Vallow's the other day discussing a media leak. Maybe she is hoping he will cop a plea before the need for that rubbish.
I see. I don't think more arguments or a reversed decision will go on in such though. I mean they can still attempt to file more motions and arguments right up to the morning of I have little doubt. Not sure they will but who knows. I'd be surprised if they don't try something more, if not just for the record but hard to say, time's ticking fast.

Pretrial conferences are mostly housekeeping, seeing where they are at, an last little decisions that haven't been made, any concerns, issues I suppose with witnesses being able to make it, etc. Even words that can be said perhaps. In our case, the word abuse could not be used. I thought it ridiculous but they granted the D that. I don't recall if that was decided in the pretrial conference but it was in those last hearings leading up to right before trial.

I guess what I mean is I don't think she is going to take arguments and revisit a major decision already made.

What she did say is at trial itself, she will consider offers or proof or evidence if they have any but she's basically ruled at this time, they do not have any, that's all been decided. Jmo.
 

Delphi murders: Defense appeals decision barring alternative murder theories​

In a move that could jeopardize the October start date for the Delphi murders trial, Richard Allen’s defense has signaled they want the Indiana Court of Appeals to overturn Special Judge Fran Gull’s decision barring them from presenting its Odinisim theory in court.

According to a filing obtained by FOX59/CBS4 Monday night, Allen’s defense — comprised of attorneys Andrew Baldwin and Bradley Rozzi — has moved forward with a rare interlocutory appeal challenging the decision to not let them present their alternative killing theory during the trial.
 

Delphi murders: Defense appeals decision barring alternative murder theories​

In a move that could jeopardize the October start date for the Delphi murders trial, Richard Allen’s defense has signaled they want the Indiana Court of Appeals to overturn Special Judge Fran Gull’s decision barring them from presenting its Odinisim theory in court.

According to a filing obtained by FOX59/CBS4 Monday night, Allen’s defense — comprised of attorneys Andrew Baldwin and Bradley Rozzi — has moved forward with a rare interlocutory appeal challenging the decision to not let them present their alternative killing theory during the trial.
Well I can't say it's a surprise. They've never not done such yet and have never quit despite most all coming back against them every single time other than their removal from the case, all else has.
They are doing it again and that's what I believe is to be appealed first at the trial court level, is not being done and instead they are heading to the ISC. Not 100 percent on that but it is what has been pretty much said prior.

I guess they care less if their client and his family remain in limbo and they sure don't care if the victims families do.

They should have had some defense prepared for this either way if such happened so IF they file and IF the ISC comes back quickly, the trial should still be made to proceed imo because they've had time to prepare for all eventualities. They could not count on this and as "seasoned" attorneys definitely know that. Her decision I mean.

Hey, it's the right decision and all are insofar as I can see. I've said throughout all they did was create a blizzard of hearsay and no solid evidence and just writing 100s of pages in I don't know, some attempt to confuse? A judge? I mean get real. Done for the public I guess...

Talk about more than once having a court and other attorneys clear their calendars for long lengths of time and then we wonder why the system takes years for anything to get done or anyone tried as it's rare on short notice they can move something else into such a slot.

I haven't read the actual links yet and perhaps that will change what I think here. I doubt it. I don't know what they mean by "signaling" as I have yet to read them which I am going to do here shortly.
 
and that justice would be meted out “without denial; speedily, and without delay.

Oh give me a break, how ludicrous. Only they have stopped speedily and without delay and any denial depending on what they mean by that is due to they didn't give sufficient grounds or proof/evidence, if that's the denial this talks about. It may well mean just that justice has been denied as trial hasn't been carried out yet. Well no sh*t and thanks to whom?
 

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