LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *GUILTY*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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This is something we missed i think.


Journal & Courier

Delphi murder suspect's attorneys question prosecutor's timeline of events​

Ron Wilkins, Lafayette Journal & Courier
Tue, September 24, 2024 at 7:39 PM GMT+14 min read
DELPHI, Ind. ― Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen's attorneys want answers from law enforcement officers who refused to answer specific questions in depositions at the advice of Carroll County Prosecutor Nick McLeland.
Allen is accused of killing Libby German and Abby Williams on Feb. 13, 2017, but Allen's attorneys are challenging the prosecutors' timeline.
According to a motion to compel that was filed Monday, defense attorneys want a straight yes-or-no answer from Steven Mullin, who was Delphi police chief when Libby and Abby were killed. Mullin now is the investigator for the Carroll County Prosecutor's Office.
Allen's attorneys deposed Mullin on Sept. 13, but he didn't answer questions that the defense want Special Judge Frances Gull to order him to answer. Gull has not yet ruled on the motion.
"Is your timeline and theory of the case fatal to the prosecution's case against Richard Allen if the person Betsy Blair observed on the bridge is not Richard Allen?" the motion states of a question that Mullin refused to answer during his Sept. 13 deposition. Depositions are sworn statements from witnesses who are likely to testify at trial.
"Is your timeline and theory of the case fatal to the prosecution's case against Richard Allen if the vehicle Betsy Blair observed at the CPS building was not Richard Allen's vehicle?" the motion asks. "If Betsy Blair observed one person and Sarah Carbaugh observed an entirely different person, is the prosecution's timeline and theory of the case as it relates to Richard Allen fatally flawed?
"If neither Betsy Blair, nor Sarah Carbaugh observed Richard Allen on February 13, 2017, is the State's timeline and theory of the case as it relates to Richard Allen fatally flawed?"
This line of questioning appears to indicate that Allen's attorneys are pivoting his defense from Odinist human sacrifice to questioning the validity of prosecutor's timeline of events.

A large decal on Mike Patty's pickup honors his granddaughter Liberty German and her close friend Abigail Williams. Abby and Libby were murdered Feb. 13, 2017, as they hiked the Moon High Bridge Trail just east of Delphi.

A large decal on Mike Patty's pickup honors his granddaughter Liberty German and her close friend Abigail Williams. Abby and Libby were murdered Feb. 13, 2017, as they hiked the Moon High Bridge Trail just east of Delphi.More

Hours before the motion to compel was filed, Allen's attorneys filed a motion asking jurors to physically visit the crime scenes witnesses will testify about, including the old Child Protection Services buildings where prosecutors allege Allen's car was parked between 1:30 and 4 p.m. the day the two teens were killed.
The motion to view the scene includes stops walking from the Freedom Bridge, a refurbished steel-girder bridge spanning the Hoosier Heartland Highway, to the Monon High Bridge, the abandoned wood trestle railroad bridge.
The attorney also asked that jurors visit the killing site on the north banks of the Deek Creek about a quarter-mile east of High Bridge, where the girls' bodies were found on Feb. 14, 2017.
The motion to compel and the motion to visit the crime scenes both have a time element in them and seem intended to question the prosecutor's timing of events.

Up until last month, Allen's defense seemed focused on a third-party defense.
Last year, Allen's attorneys published a 136-page memorandum accusing worshippers of the pre-Christian Norse god Odin of ritually killing the two Delphi eighth-graders. Earlier this month, Gull ruled that Allen's attorneys cannot use this defense because of a lack of admissible evidence. However, Gull will allow Allen's attorneys to present offers to prove that the Odinist evidence should be allowed, outside of the presence of the jury.

Gull also ruled earlier last month that jurors will be allowed to hear Allen's admissions to the killings that he's made since his arrest on Oct. 26, 2022.
The motion to compel also asks Gull to order Indiana State Police Lt. Jerry Holeman, former Westville Prison Warden John Galipeau and Westville Prison Guard Sgt. Joshua Robinson to respond to the questions they declined to answer in depositions.
The questions Holeman refused to answer included what Holeman and Carroll County Sheriff Tony Liggett spoke about in Holeman's preparation for his Aug. 10, 2023, deposition. Allen's attorneys also want to know why investigators did not retain a blood spatter expert until April.
Allen's trial is scheduled to begin Oct. 14 in Fort Wayne, were jurors will be selected. Once the jury is selected and sequestered, the trial will move to Delphi for opening statements, evidence, closing arguments and the verdict. The trial is scheduled to last as long as Nov. 15.
Reach Ron Wilkins at rwilkins@jconline.com. Follow on Twitter: @RonWilkins2.
This article originally appeared on Lafayette Journal & Courier: Delphi murder suspect's attorneys cast doubt on prosecutor's timeline
 
She's set up a lot of stuff to get a retrial.
I know this much, one can't have a retrial when one can't even get to a first trial thus far lol.

Not sure what you are talking of unless you mean you think her decisions are going to result in overturning something on appeal?

I don't know but know it generally takes a lot and real reasons and I really don't see any, however I'm sure no expert.

I'm certainly not going to sweat it nor thinking such before we can even get this case to trial thanks to the D for the first time yet.

IN is not CA either and so there's that.

I don't see how a lack of broadcasting live is going to cause any problem like that (that was the subject of the post you responded to) or affect any such thing.

If you are kind of jumping subjects to talking appeals after we finally having a first trial (unclear) well on what basis are you talking? There are no cases that arent' likely to be appealed if someone is convicted of murder but again we are not anywhere near that yet (a conviction, haven't even seen a trial yet) and on what basis do you mean?

The D has tried the appeals thing already and every decision I've seen shows they haven't followed the right process and like it or not, their incompetence is not on Gull.

I do think NOW they are trying to dot their Is and cross their Ts but still not real effective at it. Jmo.

I had to guess what you even meant here or why so not even sure I am talking what you mean but not sweating it. I'd like to see us get to trial in the first place here before sweating future things. And I don't agree if that's what you are talking but that will remain to be seen in the years to come I guess.

Why did we jump to that if that is what you are talking of? Or do you mean something else? Her lack of cameras and broadcasting have nothing to do with such, that's a bona fide allowable decision and so again, not clear on your jump here, I have assumed what you mean and may have it wrong. I'm assuming you are talking appeals that result in a retrial?
 
This is something we missed i think.


Journal & Courier

Delphi murder suspect's attorneys question prosecutor's timeline of events​

Ron Wilkins, Lafayette Journal & Courier
Tue, September 24, 2024 at 7:39 PM GMT+14 min read
DELPHI, Ind. ― Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen's attorneys want answers from law enforcement officers who refused to answer specific questions in depositions at the advice of Carroll County Prosecutor Nick McLeland.
Allen is accused of killing Libby German and Abby Williams on Feb. 13, 2017, but Allen's attorneys are challenging the prosecutors' timeline.
According to a motion to compel that was filed Monday, defense attorneys want a straight yes-or-no answer from Steven Mullin, who was Delphi police chief when Libby and Abby were killed. Mullin now is the investigator for the Carroll County Prosecutor's Office.
Allen's attorneys deposed Mullin on Sept. 13, but he didn't answer questions that the defense want Special Judge Frances Gull to order him to answer. Gull has not yet ruled on the motion.
"Is your timeline and theory of the case fatal to the prosecution's case against Richard Allen if the person Betsy Blair observed on the bridge is not Richard Allen?" the motion states of a question that Mullin refused to answer during his Sept. 13 deposition. Depositions are sworn statements from witnesses who are likely to testify at trial.
"Is your timeline and theory of the case fatal to the prosecution's case against Richard Allen if the vehicle Betsy Blair observed at the CPS building was not Richard Allen's vehicle?" the motion asks. "If Betsy Blair observed one person and Sarah Carbaugh observed an entirely different person, is the prosecution's timeline and theory of the case as it relates to Richard Allen fatally flawed?
"If neither Betsy Blair, nor Sarah Carbaugh observed Richard Allen on February 13, 2017, is the State's timeline and theory of the case as it relates to Richard Allen fatally flawed?"
This line of questioning appears to indicate that Allen's attorneys are pivoting his defense from Odinist human sacrifice to questioning the validity of prosecutor's timeline of events.

A large decal on Mike Patty's pickup honors his granddaughter Liberty German and her close friend Abigail Williams. Abby and Libby were murdered Feb. 13, 2017, as they hiked the Moon High Bridge Trail just east of Delphi.'s pickup honors his granddaughter Liberty German and her close friend Abigail Williams. Abby and Libby were murdered Feb. 13, 2017, as they hiked the Moon High Bridge Trail just east of Delphi.

A large decal on Mike Patty's pickup honors his granddaughter Liberty German and her close friend Abigail Williams. Abby and Libby were murdered Feb. 13, 2017, as they hiked the Moon High Bridge Trail just east of Delphi.More

Hours before the motion to compel was filed, Allen's attorneys filed a motion asking jurors to physically visit the crime scenes witnesses will testify about, including the old Child Protection Services buildings where prosecutors allege Allen's car was parked between 1:30 and 4 p.m. the day the two teens were killed.
The motion to view the scene includes stops walking from the Freedom Bridge, a refurbished steel-girder bridge spanning the Hoosier Heartland Highway, to the Monon High Bridge, the abandoned wood trestle railroad bridge.
The attorney also asked that jurors visit the killing site on the north banks of the Deek Creek about a quarter-mile east of High Bridge, where the girls' bodies were found on Feb. 14, 2017.
The motion to compel and the motion to visit the crime scenes both have a time element in them and seem intended to question the prosecutor's timing of events.

Up until last month, Allen's defense seemed focused on a third-party defense.
Last year, Allen's attorneys published a 136-page memorandum accusing worshippers of the pre-Christian Norse god Odin of ritually killing the two Delphi eighth-graders. Earlier this month, Gull ruled that Allen's attorneys cannot use this defense because of a lack of admissible evidence. However, Gull will allow Allen's attorneys to present offers to prove that the Odinist evidence should be allowed, outside of the presence of the jury.

Gull also ruled earlier last month that jurors will be allowed to hear Allen's admissions to the killings that he's made since his arrest on Oct. 26, 2022.
The motion to compel also asks Gull to order Indiana State Police Lt. Jerry Holeman, former Westville Prison Warden John Galipeau and Westville Prison Guard Sgt. Joshua Robinson to respond to the questions they declined to answer in depositions.
The questions Holeman refused to answer included what Holeman and Carroll County Sheriff Tony Liggett spoke about in Holeman's preparation for his Aug. 10, 2023, deposition. Allen's attorneys also want to know why investigators did not retain a blood spatter expert until April.
Allen's trial is scheduled to begin Oct. 14 in Fort Wayne, were jurors will be selected. Once the jury is selected and sequestered, the trial will move to Delphi for opening statements, evidence, closing arguments and the verdict. The trial is scheduled to last as long as Nov. 15.
Reach Ron Wilkins at rwilkins@jconline.com. Follow on Twitter: @RonWilkins2.
This article originally appeared on Lafayette Journal & Courier: Delphi murder suspect's attorneys cast doubt on prosecutor's timeline
Well, I will say that in being fair, they do seem to be pivoting and going for a different defense and maybe they should have thought to do such some time ago but I guess they needed to go sensational and big to distract from both their failures and his confessions.

Good find. Yeah, tons are missed. This case after being the most talked of and covered for years on end now has most entirely silent for months now which says a lot to me about the leak. Almost no one touches it with a ten foot pole these days when it was the most cared about there was for a long time. This shall continue right through trial, etc. as it did with the hearings with little coverage imo and us missing things if they are not one and found. Good find here as I said and bet you had to actively go looking. Reddit and someone that's on it maybe? AS you know I don't do Reddit or just never learned to navigate it.

I'm not going to jump because what happens so often is we get a defense claim only to find later it is not always the case or 100 percent true.

I will say if the D is actually pivoting and looking to defend the actual claims, it is about time and even is encouraging that they are doing so and maybe looking for a real defense for RA, kind of late in the game (watch the next delay attempt while they ask for time to explore this one).

The blood spatter expert means nothing to me re retaining one until April. I find that pretty unimportant. As far as what was discussed in prep, Liggett to Holeman, I think that is work product but who knows.

I guess we shall see. I will say, where was this kind of defense before? They were all over the place.

I will also say I am not tickled with the one witness, is that Blair? I think she has things wrong and that's what happens with "eyewitnesses". Some things. Not eyewitness to the murders of course but other. Tom talks of this a fair amount.

I do think there is plenty though that takes over that.

Like all defense filings and claims, I will await the response because they are almost always not factual.

But we shall see. I like anyone am anticipating and wanting this trial to go off but I have no solid faith it will. We shall see....
 
This is something we missed i think.


Journal & Courier

Delphi murder suspect's attorneys question prosecutor's timeline of events​

Ron Wilkins, Lafayette Journal & Courier
Tue, September 24, 2024 at 7:39 PM GMT+14 min read
DELPHI, Ind. ― Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen's attorneys want answers from law enforcement officers who refused to answer specific questions in depositions at the advice of Carroll County Prosecutor Nick McLeland.
Allen is accused of killing Libby German and Abby Williams on Feb. 13, 2017, but Allen's attorneys are challenging the prosecutors' timeline.
According to a motion to compel that was filed Monday, defense attorneys want a straight yes-or-no answer from Steven Mullin, who was Delphi police chief when Libby and Abby were killed. Mullin now is the investigator for the Carroll County Prosecutor's Office.
Allen's attorneys deposed Mullin on Sept. 13, but he didn't answer questions that the defense want Special Judge Frances Gull to order him to answer. Gull has not yet ruled on the motion.
"Is your timeline and theory of the case fatal to the prosecution's case against Richard Allen if the person Betsy Blair observed on the bridge is not Richard Allen?" the motion states of a question that Mullin refused to answer during his Sept. 13 deposition. Depositions are sworn statements from witnesses who are likely to testify at trial.
"Is your timeline and theory of the case fatal to the prosecution's case against Richard Allen if the vehicle Betsy Blair observed at the CPS building was not Richard Allen's vehicle?" the motion asks. "If Betsy Blair observed one person and Sarah Carbaugh observed an entirely different person, is the prosecution's timeline and theory of the case as it relates to Richard Allen fatally flawed?
"If neither Betsy Blair, nor Sarah Carbaugh observed Richard Allen on February 13, 2017, is the State's timeline and theory of the case as it relates to Richard Allen fatally flawed?"
This line of questioning appears to indicate that Allen's attorneys are pivoting his defense from Odinist human sacrifice to questioning the validity of prosecutor's timeline of events.

A large decal on Mike Patty's pickup honors his granddaughter Liberty German and her close friend Abigail Williams. Abby and Libby were murdered Feb. 13, 2017, as they hiked the Moon High Bridge Trail just east of Delphi.'s pickup honors his granddaughter Liberty German and her close friend Abigail Williams. Abby and Libby were murdered Feb. 13, 2017, as they hiked the Moon High Bridge Trail just east of Delphi.

A large decal on Mike Patty's pickup honors his granddaughter Liberty German and her close friend Abigail Williams. Abby and Libby were murdered Feb. 13, 2017, as they hiked the Moon High Bridge Trail just east of Delphi.More

Hours before the motion to compel was filed, Allen's attorneys filed a motion asking jurors to physically visit the crime scenes witnesses will testify about, including the old Child Protection Services buildings where prosecutors allege Allen's car was parked between 1:30 and 4 p.m. the day the two teens were killed.
The motion to view the scene includes stops walking from the Freedom Bridge, a refurbished steel-girder bridge spanning the Hoosier Heartland Highway, to the Monon High Bridge, the abandoned wood trestle railroad bridge.
The attorney also asked that jurors visit the killing site on the north banks of the Deek Creek about a quarter-mile east of High Bridge, where the girls' bodies were found on Feb. 14, 2017.
The motion to compel and the motion to visit the crime scenes both have a time element in them and seem intended to question the prosecutor's timing of events.

Up until last month, Allen's defense seemed focused on a third-party defense.
Last year, Allen's attorneys published a 136-page memorandum accusing worshippers of the pre-Christian Norse god Odin of ritually killing the two Delphi eighth-graders. Earlier this month, Gull ruled that Allen's attorneys cannot use this defense because of a lack of admissible evidence. However, Gull will allow Allen's attorneys to present offers to prove that the Odinist evidence should be allowed, outside of the presence of the jury.

Gull also ruled earlier last month that jurors will be allowed to hear Allen's admissions to the killings that he's made since his arrest on Oct. 26, 2022.
The motion to compel also asks Gull to order Indiana State Police Lt. Jerry Holeman, former Westville Prison Warden John Galipeau and Westville Prison Guard Sgt. Joshua Robinson to respond to the questions they declined to answer in depositions.
The questions Holeman refused to answer included what Holeman and Carroll County Sheriff Tony Liggett spoke about in Holeman's preparation for his Aug. 10, 2023, deposition. Allen's attorneys also want to know why investigators did not retain a blood spatter expert until April.
Allen's trial is scheduled to begin Oct. 14 in Fort Wayne, were jurors will be selected. Once the jury is selected and sequestered, the trial will move to Delphi for opening statements, evidence, closing arguments and the verdict. The trial is scheduled to last as long as Nov. 15.
Reach Ron Wilkins at rwilkins@jconline.com. Follow on Twitter: @RonWilkins2.
This article originally appeared on Lafayette Journal & Courier: Delphi murder suspect's attorneys cast doubt on prosecutor's timeline

I totally agree with this. If they aren't forced to testify, then the defense should be able to call them to the stand and let them plead the fifth in front of the jury.
 
I totally agree with this. If they aren't forced to testify, then the defense should be able to call them to the stand and let them plead the fifth in front of the jury.
I don't disagree but I'd like to hear the rest of the story first because the defense has basically "lied" many a time and so I am not taking anything on the face of only a filing by them without a response, facts, etc.
 
I don't disagree but I'd like to hear the rest of the story first because the defense has basically "lied" many a time and so I am not taking anything on the face of only a filing by them without a response, facts, etc.
I am sure LE will be testifying for the P so D can cross exam as normal.
 
I do wonder if the defense wants a site visit because the suspect's health has declined so much.
"Seeee, look at this guy! He's weak and feeble. He couldn't possibly have maneuvered and controlled two young girls across the bridge and into the woods!"
Even though his physical stature was much different at the time, I could see that having an impact on a juror.
Very strong possibly of this.
 

[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.73)]RON WILKINS [/COLOR][COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.73)] Lafayette Journal & Courier[/COLOR]
[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.6)]2 hours ago[/COLOR]
Delphi man charged with murder in killings of Libby German and Abby Williams
0:00
0:00

Show Caption

DELPHI, Ind. ― Carroll County Prosecutor Nick McLeland doesn't want jurors for Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen's trial to see the crime scenes.
McLeland charged Allen in October 2022 with murder in the Feb. 13, 2017, killing of teenagers Libby German and Abby Williams.
Last week, Allen's attorneys asked for jurors to visit the scenes relevant to the last hours of Libby and Abby's lives, as well as the old Child Protection Services building where prosecutors allege Allen parked his car before the killings.
In an objection to Allen's attorneys' request for jurors to see the Monon High Bridge, the site where the girls were found about a quarter of a mile from the bridge, and the old CPS building, McLeland filed a brief on Friday.

Monon High Bridge over Deer Creek is the second highest rail trestle in Indiana and was last used by CSX in 1987.

Monon High Bridge over Deer Creek is the second highest rail trestle in Indiana and was last used by CSX in 1987.
DAVID MCCAIN

"The terrain where the bodies were found is very difficult to traverse and would be dangerous for the jury to get to," McLeland stated in the brief that asks Special Judge Frances Gull to deny Allen's request. "That traveling to the (site) where the bodies were found and to the opposite end of the Monon High Bridge would involve encroaching on two private landowners' property.
"That it would require a substantial amount of time and resources to take the jury to those areas while ensuring that they are sequestered from the public and outside influences.
"That the areas of where the bodies were found along with the site of the old CPS building are substantially different from the time the crimes occurred."
McLeland noted prosecutors will introduce evidence, including maps and drone footage, of the areas to show the jurors.
"(A)ny benefits of the Jury visiting these areas is outweighed by the dangers such a trip presents to the jury and to the fairness of the trial," McLeland wrote. "(T)he State does not believe it is proper to have the jury view the scene or the other various areas."
Gull published an order Thursday noting she will not make a decision on the defense request pending the state's response, which was filed Friday afternoon and appeared online on Monday. As of Monday afternoon, Gull has not published a ruling.
Last week, Allen's attorneys also filed a motion asking the court to force law enforcement officers to answer questions they had declined to answer in depositions, based on counsel from the Indiana Department of Corrections' attorney and McLeland.
Allen's motion seemed to imply some of their questions about the prosecutor's timeline of events might be challenged if the questions were answered.
"(T)he State believes the information that the Defense is asking the Court to compel is privileged information as it is work product or pertains to communications between the state and one of their witnesses, or it is not relevant to the guilty or innocence of Richard Allen," McLeland wrote in the prosecutor's response.
McLeland's response filed Friday and published online on Monday indicates that the Department of Correction guard and warden who refused to answer questions did so under Department of Correction's attorney/client privilege, which McLeland contends makes such information confidential.
As for Indiana State Police Lt. Jerry Holeman and prosecutor's office investigator Steve Mullin being forced to answer questions, McLeland also opposed Allen's request.
The questions to Holeman about when prosecutors hired a blood spatter expert is a matter of state trial strategy and is work product, which means the defense is not entitled to know the information. Besides, the prosecutor, not Holeman, is in the position to answer that question.
Allen's attorneys questioned Holeman during his deposition about what he and Carroll County Sheriff Tony Liggett spoke about before Holeman's deposition. But McLeland was present during those conversations, and it was part of trial strategy. Therefore, he contends it was not discoverable in depositions.
Lastly, Allen's attorneys peppered Mullin with questions about the prosecutor's timeline if witnesses were mistaken about what they told police. "Mr. Mullin answered the questions that the Defense posed to the best of his ability," McLeland responded. "Simply because he did not answer them the way the Defense wanted is not a valid reason to ask for Court intervention."
Gull also has not ruled on Allen's motion to compel answers from the DOC guard, warden, Holeman or Mullin.
Allen has been awaiting trial since his arrest on Oct. 26, 2022. For most of that time, he has been housed in solitary confinement at two Indiana maximum-security prisons.
Reach Ron Wilkins at rwilkins@jconline.com. Follow on Twitter: @RonWilkins2.

2 hours ago
 

[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.73)]RON WILKINS [/COLOR][COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.73)] Lafayette Journal & Courier[/COLOR]
[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.6)]2 hours ago[/COLOR]

Delphi man charged with murder in killings of Libby German and Abby Williams
0:00
0:00
Show Caption
DELPHI, Ind. ― Carroll County Prosecutor Nick McLeland doesn't want jurors for Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen's trial to see the crime scenes.
McLeland charged Allen in October 2022 with murder in the Feb. 13, 2017, killing of teenagers Libby German and Abby Williams.
Last week, Allen's attorneys asked for jurors to visit the scenes relevant to the last hours of Libby and Abby's lives, as well as the old Child Protection Services building where prosecutors allege Allen parked his car before the killings.
In an objection to Allen's attorneys' request for jurors to see the Monon High Bridge, the site where the girls were found about a quarter of a mile from the bridge, and the old CPS building, McLeland filed a brief on Friday.

Monon High Bridge over Deer Creek is the second highest rail trestle in Indiana and was last used by CSX in 1987.

Monon High Bridge over Deer Creek is the second highest rail trestle in Indiana and was last used by CSX in 1987.

DAVID MCCAIN

"The terrain where the bodies were found is very difficult to traverse and would be dangerous for the jury to get to," McLeland stated in the brief that asks Special Judge Frances Gull to deny Allen's request. "That traveling to the (site) where the bodies were found and to the opposite end of the Monon High Bridge would involve encroaching on two private landowners' property.
"That it would require a substantial amount of time and resources to take the jury to those areas while ensuring that they are sequestered from the public and outside influences.
"That the areas of where the bodies were found along with the site of the old CPS building are substantially different from the time the crimes occurred."
McLeland noted prosecutors will introduce evidence, including maps and drone footage, of the areas to show the jurors.
"(A)ny benefits of the Jury visiting these areas is outweighed by the dangers such a trip presents to the jury and to the fairness of the trial," McLeland wrote. "(T)he State does not believe it is proper to have the jury view the scene or the other various areas."
Gull published an order Thursday noting she will not make a decision on the defense request pending the state's response, which was filed Friday afternoon and appeared online on Monday. As of Monday afternoon, Gull has not published a ruling.
Last week, Allen's attorneys also filed a motion asking the court to force law enforcement officers to answer questions they had declined to answer in depositions, based on counsel from the Indiana Department of Corrections' attorney and McLeland.
Allen's motion seemed to imply some of their questions about the prosecutor's timeline of events might be challenged if the questions were answered.
"(T)he State believes the information that the Defense is asking the Court to compel is privileged information as it is work product or pertains to communications between the state and one of their witnesses, or it is not relevant to the guilty or innocence of Richard Allen," McLeland wrote in the prosecutor's response.
McLeland's response filed Friday and published online on Monday indicates that the Department of Correction guard and warden who refused to answer questions did so under Department of Correction's attorney/client privilege, which McLeland contends makes such information confidential.
As for Indiana State Police Lt. Jerry Holeman and prosecutor's office investigator Steve Mullin being forced to answer questions, McLeland also opposed Allen's request.
The questions to Holeman about when prosecutors hired a blood spatter expert is a matter of state trial strategy and is work product, which means the defense is not entitled to know the information. Besides, the prosecutor, not Holeman, is in the position to answer that question.
Allen's attorneys questioned Holeman during his deposition about what he and Carroll County Sheriff Tony Liggett spoke about before Holeman's deposition. But McLeland was present during those conversations, and it was part of trial strategy. Therefore, he contends it was not discoverable in depositions.
Lastly, Allen's attorneys peppered Mullin with questions about the prosecutor's timeline if witnesses were mistaken about what they told police. "Mr. Mullin answered the questions that the Defense posed to the best of his ability," McLeland responded. "Simply because he did not answer them the way the Defense wanted is not a valid reason to ask for Court intervention."
Gull also has not ruled on Allen's motion to compel answers from the DOC guard, warden, Holeman or Mullin.
Allen has been awaiting trial since his arrest on Oct. 26, 2022. For most of that time, he has been housed in solitary confinement at two Indiana maximum-security prisons.
Reach Ron Wilkins at rwilkins@jconline.com. Follow on Twitter: @RonWilkins2.

2 hours ago
I hazarded a guess a ways above a lot of this may be work product. Discovery does not apply to work product, etc.

I was awaiting the P's response and some very good points in it and yes, a lot of work product or confidentiality relatiships. Not sure if applies to all but sure does to much of it imo.

Also very good points about visiting the site versus not visiting.

I don't see the point in this one but if it was allowed RA should have to be with and take the same route.

He was looking pretty healthy last we all saw him too, not all sickly. Assuming but don't know the case is the same.

Very informative article.
 

All the other suspects have been discounted by LE so this is a last gasp for these youtubers to get $ off the murder of two innocents. The only thing she said of interest to me was that the court has allowed 5 seats for media and she has applied. Now that is not very many and you can bet the local rag will want to be there and the big networks, Fox, CNN, etc so these smaller ones may not be successful. Maybe MS and Aspen may get on there but i think that even they will be lucky.

2 weeks to go.
 
It doesn't say if the genetic DNA linked to RA or if it linked to anyone. Just that it was done. If there was a genetic link I believe it would have been announced in the original press conference.

The gun I was wrong about. I still don't see it, but so many others do. The mentioning of the gun is on the part of the recording we haven't heard yet. I'm not as bad as Kimster at finding Pandas and Rudolph, but I miss some things.

Speaking of the recording. The original released portion didn't have the word "guys" attached to it. It may have been taken from another part of the recording.

I also don't believe the voice matches.

As teenagers and on, people would call for my father and if my brother or I answered they'd think it was my dad.

If there's a sonic device to test voice similarity, I'll be interested to see it.

Thanks
Did you search to see if there's a sonic device. I've never heard of that.
 
I wonder if he has confessed to anyone in the jail he is in currently? Also, is he being allowed family visits there? We know he is now close to his attorneys for visiting purposes.
My guess would be the confessions have been done for awhile... Family and attyrs moved to stifle him imo. Last we knew he was with it, in gen pop in county, etc. and seemingly healthy.

Jmo but influences he is getting If attys are even seeing him regularly and same with family, well, again imo they are going to tell him to shut up and do this or that. But I have my reasons and cynicism but also what we have seen go on here...

Clock is ticking down. I will be majorly disappointed if this does not proceed just like last time, but the families even more so by far. I am not getting hopes up but so far seems like they are looking for another avenue...

Everyone knows my opinion of these defense lawyers and so I won't voice it.

They have had ample time to give the Court anything solid and were not able to and to explore other avenues and defenses imo.

As far as the bridge, trail visit, well I don't see the point but if granted then I think he should also have to be there and walk it with the jury and everyone else.

I so await what isn't even scientific but like his wife's testimony, etc. and interviews...

Aspen Connor actually had something out tonight but it was premiering but I have had only time to defuse for moments. Hopefully in the next week or two, something pretty big is behind me.
When I saw it pop up I was going to come and link it even if I had not watched yet but had other deadline things to take care of.

Letting all know though if anyone wants to find, see, etc
 
Okay my last hurrah tonight. I have not watched it yet saw the link when it was premiering but again had other things to handle HOW late at night with something.

I refreshed right before I am gong to go get a few hours sleep and here it is. I have not had time to watch Aspen since subscribing but we know he had better coverage of the hearings when he got time versus MSM, etc. and it popped up so I am linking.

 
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So jury selection is 3 days, so the first day of the actual trial won't be till the Friday (17th). Then I believe it is three weeks put aside for it from then on which woulf mean ending around 8th Nov by my calculation.

6 seats for family. 5 for media with media to decide who gets them.
 
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