LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *GUILTY*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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I hate to be the one to make the grand proclamation, but he's no worse than half the general population in any prison. He is NOW a convicted criminal and I'm fairly certain he will be in gen pop with everyone else.

Since the safekeeping order was vacated, he will probably remain in Cass County until his December 20 sentencing.
He may remain after too. It was a month or two after sentencing before ours left county. We were not very happy about it. But it was explained to us. There are things to arrange and it isn't unusual and then they go off to be like processed and evaluated and the decision made as to where they get sent. And not immediately to the prison they will be in. At least true in most states and I'd think all but not sure.

I agree with you in all aspects except one. He will be in gen pop imo with others of his kind. And with this I don't think it happens everywhere but there is now some segregating the child offenders from the others. It's still gen pop for them. Just not the entire masses of gen pop. I am unsure if this is always the case everywhere though. I've heard it many a time in many cases.

When people say oh they'll get killed in prison because they molested or killed a kid, people think that from years of hearing such things but they don't mix them any longer in many areas and It truly doesn't happen that often (that they get killed because of their crime, by another prisoner).

But I do agree with all else. He won't be protected any longer to be kept alive for trial or his own safety, he is now a convicted felon, a murderer of two children. He's just going to be another prisoner.
 
Okay. I haven't read every link but read this one because I wanted to know what it said about when the gag order would be lifted. It is sure different than I read up thread also where it says his sentencing will be 45 years to 130 yrs where others said like 80 or 90 (I forget which one that end) to 130 years.

It also said upthread I thought that the safekeeping order was lifted like maybe when he was moved to Cass, not sure what was meant, and here it says it was not lifted and so he could go right back to the correctional institute, the Wabash one I believe.

So again some very confusing traditional reporting.

This one MIGHT know more what they are talking as they talk if consecutive or concurrent, etc. Anyone sentences this man to the lowest and concurrent, I'd have a real problem and I think the families would as well. You know 45 years would make him 97 BUT there is no truly served sentence it seems, of full length, many a time these days. It says nothing about a life sentence with no chance of getting out in ANYTHING I've read today either.

So back to the gag order, not lifted til after sentencing.

Now to Kathy Allen who says "this isn't over" allegedly anyhow.

I have an opinion of this woman that has only worsened over time and while I've said a bit, I've held it a lot and not said exactly what I think and again it only worsens. I'm going to bite my tongue even now to a large degree but HE is not the victim here and while she may not be the perp, her husband is the convicted killer now. And she's not the victim either, the girls ARE. Now she may have been clueless (and I dont' think she was throughout the years by any means nor never had a hint but so what), she has had and still has choices. THOSE GIRLS DO NOT. She won't let her husband confess and there's something really messed up in this family.

From what I heard today, and can give the source, she fell totally apart, and was sitting between his mother and his sister and they had to try to help her and console her. His mother just had a darned concussion and I believe broke her nose and she is helping Kathy... It was said when all are to rise for the jurors (on their being released for duty, she had to be helped to her feet but them.

Yet here I hear, read actually, on exiting she apparently said this isn't over so I guess she came to her feet.
,
It IS OVER KATHY other than some major years long reversal on appeal which I find highly doubtful.

AND you could have waived your privilege and testified.

I was also very unamused at their byplay in court and testifying while not daring to take the stand, either of them. Shaking heads, nodding, emphatically sometimes.. Mouthing things. Do people hear know their was a no whispering order? NONE. I think Aspen last night in that awesome show I watched was saying to one other that he was sitting next to, the day he realized RA WAS BG in a day of court, in hearing him and watching him in an interview I believe, and he couldn't help it, he whispered to her OMG he IS BG.

Most had this revelation in this courtroom. More than one of them went into the trial very D minded and share that and how that changed.

Talking to the article and then kind of going into other things from there, not to anyone, and just generally as to my thoughts of the day, and in catching up, and jmo.

I'll leave Kathy at that but I could really say a whole lot more. You know even now, SHE has choices.

There's also so many tidbits maybe many have forgotten through the years that a regular FB poster like Kathy had almost a full year she didn't share much at all... I KNOW THAT VOICE. AND NOW I BELIEVE ALL THE JURORS DO. You can't tell me she didn't know that voice deep down and that when he told her he'd been to the trails, but NOT on the bridge, put those two things together...

I have no respect for her at all. And I'll leave it at that. No promises though that at some point I won't say everything I think.

And it's always about her crying at every single hearing throughout, etc. but then she does the testifying in court while not testifying, and says it isn't over when she walks out.

Okayyyy then.

Of course, I will allow for how news can be and maybe not all is accurate or in contenxt. Who the heck knows...

Just a catch up post, and jmo.

So the gag order if they are correct will be on until he is sentenced in December. And I gather the safekeeping order although already heard two different things on that.

And the years he can be sentenced to, saw very different things on that.

As news is, I'm sure more accurate info will come in time I'd think.

Again, just thoughts.

A lot of years, a huge interest case, but man what these families have been through. And this trial, ALL theky had to see and hear, making it worse I'm sure and reopening wounds that have never been near closing as to what these girls went through.

I see him as a monster. Totally.

RIP you sweet girls. Libby you DID GET HIM. WITHOUT that video and voice, boy I don't know... Just as what the P ended with, you sure did.
 
Allen left the courthouse in handcuffs. The safekeeping order that led to Allen being held at Wabash Valley Correctional Facility has not been lifted, so Allen may still be held there until his sentencing hearing on Dec. 20, 2024.

Allen faces a sentence between 45 and 130 years. He was convicted on four counts, but he will be sentenced on only one per girl because he cannot be sentenced twice for the same act. The sentence for murder is between 45 and 65 years. If Allen's sentences run consecutively, that could mean a sentence of up to 130 years. If the sentences run concurrently, that could be as low as 45 years.

The advisory sentencing for judges to consider for murder starts at 55 years, and then the judge can lower the sentence or raise it, depending on mitigating and aggravating factors.

Since shortly after Richard Allen was charged, almost everyone involved in the case has been under a gag order. They have not been able to speak to the media. That gag order will lift after Allen is sentenced.
I'm mixed up now, I think this is from the article I just responded to and is a bit from it right. Or I saw both but responded I think to the one with the article linked. Either way, just saying in here, are things mentioned, I gave opinion on, so if two different things, then covering both lol. Just in general. I saw the 45 to 130 years I know but thought it was in the article, so I am guessing just below it you posted part of what was in it. If that makes any sense. Lol.
 
Is that from one of the articles? Because I am seeing this:


Order Issued
The Court, having had Defendant's Motion to Vacate Safekeeping Order under advisement following a hearing conducted on July 31, 2024, and having considered all the evidence and arguments of Counsel, now grants the Defendant's Motion to Vacate Safekeeping Order and remands the defendant back to the custody of the Sheriff of Carroll County. Court to notify counsel, the Sheriff of Carroll County, and the Department of Correction of the change of the offender's status.
Judicial Officer:
Gull, Frances -SJ
Noticed:
McLeland, Nicholas Charles
Noticed:
Baldwin, Andrew Joseph
Noticed:
Rozzi, Bradley Anthony
Noticed:
Luttrull, James David JR
Noticed:
Diener, Stacey Lynn
Noticed:
Auger, Jennifer Jones
Order Signed:
08/06/2024​

[td]
08/01/2024

[/td]​


I guess we'll find out.
Yes I just remarked about seeing two different things on this. Imo the safekeeping order WAS vacated when he was moved from Westville. Or was it? The local area news above says it is still in place. I've caught that much.

Not sure it matters overall really.
 
Okay. Of to cooking channels. Way past when I should be up considering the schedule. I wanted to watch Tom and maybe one other but spent my hours here and it was a big day in this case and ready for a break from reading what hasn't all been shaken out yet I guess.
 
I'm mixed up now, I think this is from the article I just responded to and is a bit from it right. Or I saw both but responded I think to the one with the article linked. Either way, just saying in here, are things mentioned, I gave opinion on, so if two different things, then covering both lol. Just in general. I saw the 45 to 130 years I know but thought it was in the article, so I am guessing just below it you posted part of what was in it. If that makes any sense. Lol.
I think the 45 years is the lowest he could get if he is sentenced 45 years for each murder consecutively. If he gets the max of 65 years for each concurrently, then he would get 130 years, which is the highest they quoted. I think he should hopefully receive the max concurrent sentence of 130. No chance of him getting out then.
 
I think the 45 years is the lowest he could get if he is sentenced 45 years for each murder consecutively. If he gets the max of 65 years for each concurrently, then he would get 130 years, which is the highest they quoted. I think he should hopefully receive the max concurrent sentence of 130. No chance of him getting out then.
The judge is a former prosecutor of both homicide cases and cases involving SA on children. She was in charge of the entire division that handled those types of cases in the prosecutor's office at one point in her prosecutorial career. That is why she was selected to preside over the case. She isn't going to be lenient. I expect the maximum, consecutive sentence on all 4 charges.
 
The judge is a former prosecutor of both homicide cases and cases involving SA on children. She was in charge of the entire division that handled those types of cases in the prosecutor's office at one point in her prosecutorial career. That is why she was selected to preside over the case. She isn't going to be lenient. I expect the maximum, consecutive sentence on all 4 charges.
Which would be 130 years (2 x 65) ? I think i got consecutive and concurrent the wrong way round in my post, but you got what i meant. Could he get 65 years for each murder and each kidnapping eg 65 years x 4 ?
 
The judge is a former prosecutor of both homicide cases and cases involving SA on children. She was in charge of the entire division that handled those types of cases in the prosecutor's office at one point in her prosecutorial career. That is why she was selected to preside over the case. She isn't going to be lenient. I expect the maximum, consecutive sentence on all 4 charges.
I wish more judges believed in consecutive sentences. Hopefully she'll do that.
 
Which would be 130 years (2 x 65) ? I think i got consecutive and concurrent the wrong way round in my post, but you got what i meant. Could he get 65 years for each murder and each kidnapping eg 65 years x 4 ?
Consecutive means one after the other. Concurrent is at the same time. As an example, if someone was sentenced concurrently as 20 years for bank robbery and 10 for being a convicted felon using a gun in the robbery, the 10 years would count towards the 20. They get double credit, so to speak, for time served.
 
I think the 45 years is the lowest he could get if he is sentenced 45 years for each murder consecutively. If he gets the max of 65 years for each concurrently, then he would get 130 years, which is the highest they quoted. I think he should hopefully receive the max concurrent sentence of 130. No chance of him getting out then.
Consecutive is more and concurrent less. So 45 concurrent would be the least in that case and consectuive would result in the max. I don't see this being the lightest sentence. Personally I hope he gets the max based on the many reasons for such in this crime.

I'm just towards the end of Tom's from yesterday. He had the news feed from outside on and had other people, YTers and friends, calling when the verdict was known to give the news.

Anyhow, Bob Motta walked out with his hand on Kathy Allen's shoulder. I mean give me a break. Also the eone who had a seat where he could bypass the line yet I don't think he was appointed, anointed or special counsel. You know for all they tried this YT leaking stuff and PR and sh*t put out there, it didn't work and as somenone put it common sense prevailed yesterday.

She was walking fine.

Kind of a sidewise comment but was just watching it when came to read posts.

I decided what he was after giving it a chance many months back, it took a total of TWO shows and I called it right, and look at him.

Some out there can['t see beyond the sn*w at all.

Despite a ________ defense, I will leave out all of the adjectives I can think of, leaks, intentional b.s., and despite yes some screwups by LE, the thing is it was ALL there. And the jury saw that. It's always been there and even a bit more added to that at trial. And the voice. The missing phone. His lies. His confessions. The bullet. His inteional change of the time frame. Tons more.

Some of these conspiracies are ridiculous.

But common sense and intelligence ruled the day.

So happy for the girls' families.

And re KA well all I can say is if she sticks with those uhm she was keeping company with when leaving, well good luck to her. I guess it's her choice whether to get her life together and find a new normal or not, or stay put in this.

I'm personally very sick of hearing about her, and of RA, as if they were the victims here.

And I'm about triply sure the girls' families are as well. This was the ABBY AND LIBBY DAY, their day of JUSTICE. After it has long been the RA show, with KA testifying in the courtroom without testifying as his sidekick. I've also been reminded of a few things lately particularly in that show the other night that covered so many different things.

Just kind of still talking it all out, I guess, catching up, and letting it all sink in.

Like I said watching Tom's and feeling a bit if what now here too, as I'd imagine many are, because even with the total lack of time, I've counted on him and his sanity in this for months if not a year or more, can't recall when I found him but it's been a long darned time now. And he's not a crime YTer lol.

And I don't mean that in any sense of I wish it were still going on, just the contrary, this has been so long in coming and finally happened and was overdue to happen, it's just still sinking in. And boy the girls' families... Those emotions are going to run the gamut imo over the weeks to come yet. Sentencing still is big and pending.

Then I don't know if press as they do will have moved on or if the media will try to descend on them when all gag orders and more are off.

And if Kathy Allen, at this point, I'd simply be moving out of town and away. Not saying running away, saying I certainly would. It's over KA despite you saying it is not. IF news got that right.

I guess that depends on what she can see, what she can face, what she knew, and who she has aligned with, etc.

These are just all my own thoughts this morning as I head into my day four of my week with a back to back from last night, sigh.

B & R ended up with not a SINGLE juror on their or RA's side. I never saw a single hint of a hung jury and I never thought they were taking too long. Of course people think that in many a case or worry about it and it's natural but here it was different as if some thought the facts weren't there but they WERE.

Imo again.

This jury did as a jury should do.

I've always said I have great faith in juries (not saying there can never be a one off or a problem but overall I do) and yesterday, well, despite all the b.s. out there,, and tried, they did their job, their cleared the windshield, they double checked probably, and they came in in short order. Unanimously.

The people have spoken.

Okay, time to stop. Just haven't had a lot of processing time. Worked til after 9 last night, left for work with no verdict yet known. It is now 7:33 less than how many hours later. Had a bit of time last night spent on it and now this morning.

I for one am very pleased with the verdict. It's the right one imo.
 
The judge is a former prosecutor of both homicide cases and cases involving SA on children. She was in charge of the entire division that handled those types of cases in the prosecutor's office at one point in her prosecutorial career. That is why she was selected to preside over the case. She isn't going to be lenient. I expect the maximum, consecutive sentence on all 4 charges.
And some will say I'm sure, that because it's Gull, she is being harsh due to bias or some darned such b.s. Any judge with a verdict on heinous crimes like this and the facts, should sentence to the max imo. The people have said RA is guilty. And we all know now even more of what these girls were put through, and the fact they were total innocent sitting ducks, cornered by a man with his weapons and intent. I should be the fullest allowable and I don't care who the judge is, that's what I would expect.

RA has wanted to apologize to the families, does anyone think he will do so on his last say at sentencing?
 
I wish more judges believed in consecutive sentences. Hopefully she'll do that.
Yeah it's gotten way to common to do concurrent. In the worst of cases though, most do like several life sentences even, if allowable. Well or maybe it depends on the judge trying to appease all sides.

We don't have that here imo. She has PO'ed both sides on occasion. Lol. Not funny but it kind of is. I think she will do what is fitting for these crimes he is now convicted of and it will be a serious and severe sentence.

Jmo.
 
Consecutive means one after the other. Concurrent is at the same time. As an example, if someone was sentenced concurrently as 20 years for bank robbery and 10 for being a convicted felon using a gun in the robbery, the 10 years would count towards the 20. They get double credit, so to speak, for time served.
Only saw now you already answered this, just finished reading the last posts.

But yes she knows I think how each different, just has them reversed .
 
Some more detail from Lauren if anyone is interested.

There were issues with the line yesterday and all of them present day after day established the line and numbered it so that when not in line while waiting four day sfor a verdict they didn't have to be in it until time basically, on verdict watch anyhow. Now the court does not have to recognize the line and does n't get involved of course, this was I'd say more of an agreement amongst decent folks.

Minute it was rumored there was a verdict all took their place in line. She was number 9 over all those days. She ended up getting in 12th.

Many LE officers, yesterday, 21, and less from for public. 14 go in.

This part I know from a prior live in watching what was going on yesterday and I think Le outside the courthouse or court personnel let three in and bypass the line. and not even go through it and you could hear people saying WTH kind of remarks in the line. People also tried to butt, etc. Nice huh. But in the same sense the judge created this problem.

I'm' going to write after this is over too to ask why Motta had a special seat when so far as any of us know he was not assigned counsel or anyone special, or part of anything, and bypassed the line every day.

From him and KA walking out together (these are MY remarks, not Lauren's), maybe he got in by being KA's service animal, or some such, but the people version? Her helper, her aide?

Back to Lauren, all were inside in the courtroom but the RA family was late. Gull said something to the defense attys of she thought she made it clear all needed to be within ften minutes away (I thoughit was five, guessing that's all over the place reporting again). Anyhow, they finally got there.Late.

So I just started this and some tidbits, some of it here was from what I saw yesterday before even a verdict, etc. and my own opinion, but comes from one of her lives some of it as well. As to the line, ,etc.

Not going to be finishing this morning but watching as I get ready for work. Have some time yet but in my last hour and time to start getting all and self ready.


So some tidbits. She was in the courtroom, made it in by 2 with the b.s. or whatever it was of 3 bypassing an agreed on line by those there throughout.

Her seat was directly behind KA.

And I agree with Gull on this one too. What are you doing being not within how many minutes of getting there? It's decision time. Verdict time. It isn't like they have to be available all night, just during deliberation house. It's a bit interesting also because the D WAS there yesterday before any verdict but then the family coulldn't do it in time. They did get there but not in the allotted time.

Probably not a biggie, who knows the reasons for that but like I said, I am just sharing some tidbits now as I start to listten to some.

Maybe Motta was late to pick her up or something.... Sarcasm most certainly intended.
 

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