LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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Well I just came across a YouTube that just happened to mention that a possible plea deal was in the works a couple of months ago. It's probably just gossip but has anyone heard mention of that at all?
You don't do YT?

When, around the time he confessed? If true that makes his lawyers even more sus if you ask me...
 
He isn't the only client they've ever had. I'm not sure why you think that.
For a lot of reasons. I can tell you things attorneys have done that they were sanctioned on but are in good standing. And I can tell you from my stuff I have one for sure and two that should be reported and ti isn't he bar actually here like I thought it is actually a grievance committee, they are not the same. I have every intent of doing so but time passes and they destroyed your life with their practices and first you have to pick up the pieces and for most, time passes OR of course they don't want to mess with the powers that BE of which most attorneys are connected to or you have no trust in and the last thing you want is a new turned around situation.

I can tell you there was an expert for the defense in our case and one had to really hunt to find it but he did something SOOO bad and nothing... The actual defense attorney also had and that one did show at the bar info but got nothing but a small slap on a finger for it.

And they just don't turn on each other as far as attorneys and judges, etc. Just the way it is.

And clients? If you've ever dealt with the system (I have plenty but never been in trouble myself) and had it turned around on you, you'd know and I think to actual be a possible criminal where your life depends on it or safety, you'd be even less likely to do so.

To me, it means nothing. So they are in good standing. Okayyyy.

Finally, maybe they have always been just peachy and perfect BUT here they are with a HUGE case and some people approaching, some power, some fame...

Are they part of the club because that would explain it all..

Krystal Kenney never had her nursing license yanked. Nor a thing on her record despite people going on about how she should have... A bit different circumstance, just saying... The home Serenity Dennard was in, the director never got a slap even on a finger nor lost position....

I am not saying any of this is the case here but I am saying for me, good standing means nothing.

PLUS if Judge Gull or anyone plans on submitting a complaint to the bar, it would barely have hit by now or been decided.

A thousand ways to look at it.

I do take from it some assurances--their Bar Assn. fees are likely paid, continuing education probably current and their licenses in force.
 
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She warned them and let me tell you most judges won't find an atty in contempt or sanction and for sure the first time depending on proof and how egregious. She is far from alone in that. Most don't do it with parties either with contempt, etc., they threaten it but unless big don't do it. All jmo.

Also you say she took them to task in past but were not I thought in agreement had it proceeded to the courtroom here and her taking them to task. I am just a bit confused or do you mean she should have in chambers in which case that is what she did or now you think it should have been a public licking?
I haven't time to get into the weeds.

The only thing that matters is that Judges simply do not have the powers that she has assumed in the past 2 weeks to remove RA's counsel.
I'd not be surprised if she got the boot.
 
Put out by a SC attorney. To also come to the "zero" one would have to know the Q part of it. I find it a publicly put out opinion without much basis no different than some podcaster throwing such out there.

The Q is yes an issue. Did he give any examples or names of the cases of which he talks that deserved such?

Also, what does he have to say about Murdaugh? And when and how SC should have banned him, sanctioned him, disbarred him, stopped him through the years? Did he complain? I mean there is no WAY you can be an attorney in SC and not have known about the Ms.

Just sayin'... Chair me if you like. It doesn't phase me. Ask dirty bird. May be due to my heritage.

:chair:the Supreme Court appellate lawyer bringing the action to the Supreme Court with regard to Gull's hot mess of a Court stated:

Wieneke Law Office, LLC
@Wienekelo
·
13h

Find a case in Indiana that allows for an attorney to be removed from a case for "gross negligence." I'll wait.
 
BTW ... Gull also could have taken a beat over the pro-bono.
(Recess while she researched/consulted/considered RA's request for his pro-bono lawyers).

She didn't.
Instead, she asked the Prosecutor to weigh in - on the fly - give his opinion - his laundry list of complaints against his adversary.

To me ... seems ABSURD!

JMO but is this how she'll rule each decision through trial?
(Hey, McL, whaddaya think? allow? disallow?)

Vinnie talked about this ... he's smarter than his guests. They were not so smart, frankly. Supreme Court stuff ... out of their league. Vinnie needs to study up on the Supreme Court case re Gull's nasty court. JHMO>
 
I haven't time to get into the weeds.

The only thing that matters is that Judges simply do not have the powers that she has assumed in the past 2 weeks to remove RA's counsel.
I'd not be surprised if she got the boot.
I don't know that but I don't have time either to determine all that or be sure of it and from what I've seen she not only had the right but needed to do so. If not I am sure it will be corrected and become know to me. The alternative was to keep them on the case then no matter what their antics now or in future? Or was she to go elsewhere to have them removed after someone had already dropped dead and crime scene photos had already made it into the hands of many?

I am not being facetious but seriously asking?

As far as in the weeds, this IS already in the weeds imo thanks to the defense. Not sure how you intend to stay out of such in this case, HOWEVER, that is what I keep saying, step away from the blizzards and let the sn*w clear and it looks different OR--- you can call it coming out of the weeds... Same thing I guess...
 
Gma- i really wish you'd just trust me. 🙏 If you want a guilty against RA to stick, you want Gull to disappear.
Otherwise, a guilty RA will appeal and walk away a free man. If his rights are abused, as she's doing right now ... that's it.
The end.

except this: Why do you think the Supreme Court accepted an emergency case against Gull?
 
replace Gull
RA gets his lawyers back
Trial delayed 3 weeks. Let's go!
Back on track for the girls. :cowcouch:
Girls deserve justice as do the families. No doubt. Agreed.

These lawyers do not belong on the case. Sorry. Whether the means were right or wrong, they need to shut up and get out and yell from the sidelines.

I won't hunt you down and run around nor over the top of the couch. Not today anyhow. I am so tired.

Replacing Gull I'm sure is one of the goals and has been since before now.

Not sure why some can't clear the smoke here and see what this is and how it cannot be allowed to go on EVEN if she is replaced, RA should not be handed these lawyers. Ethical lawyers need to be provided not ones that do not know how to keep a law office, file cabinet and computer even basically locked up in a case of this magnitude or ANY case but certainly one such as this and sure let's just let this buddy, former employee have access and yeah I just didn't happen to be there...??? NO LAW FIRM of any WORTH does this. On top of it this isn't some young naive attorney.

Defense wanted the sh*t to hit the fan and it did, with the O filing. And they wanted sh*t to hit the fan with the pictures and leak as well, believing many to be as dirty minded as their selves and that at least one would run with the stuff... This was planned and orchestrated. Their mistake is they didn't send the pics to Zav Girl she would have shared them... Half snide. She shared Gannon's entirely legally accessible photos and in a paid member area (not me, I don't pay to watch any such channels), but people still thought it despicable. She however would have shared them and f she got repercussions she just disappears for awhile and then back she comes... A bit of a sidetrack here but yeah they intended and hoped someone as unethical as selves would send them viral.

And it is for Allen? I don't believe that for a minute.

On a completely separate and alien note, so wifey continues to stand by him... She is not gagged why doesn't she tell us about that day in their lives...

Nothing about ANY of this removes Allen. And I don't know how to explain it but in the recent hearing? I saw the killer. Imo. No emaciated attempt to look like a pathetic abused and lost soul.

ONLY if this man was manufactured out of the blue and railroaded and placed there without proof could I think otherwise but he PUT himself there. Did some O guy pick him out of the crowd and march him at gun point to the DNR guy for an interview at a grocery store as they just somehow knew he had been there? Uh-huh.

I'm going to repeat this for what is turning into many times now. WHO "typed" and wrote the O filing? Let's go back to the start of this new blizzard... Key into it. Who drafted it?
 
Girls deserve justice as do the families. No doubt. Agreed.

These lawyers do not belong on the case. Sorry. Whether the means were right or wrong, they need to shut up and get out and yell from the sidelines.

I won't hunt you down and run around nor over the top of the couch. Not today anyhow. I am so tired.

Replacing Gull I'm sure is one of the goals and has been since before now.

Not sure why some can't clear the smoke here and see what this is and how it cannot be allowed to go on EVEN if she is replaced, RA should not be handed these lawyers. Ethical lawyers need to be provided not ones that do not know how to keep a law office, file cabinet and computer even basically locked up in a case of this magnitude or ANY case but certainly one such as this and sure let's just let this buddy, former employee have access and yeah I just didn't happen to be there...??? NO LAW FIRM of any WORTH does this. On top of it this isn't some young naive attorney.

Defense wanted the sh*t to hit the fan and it did, with the O filing. And they wanted sh*t to hit the fan with the pictures and leak as well, believing many to be as dirty minded as their selves and that at least one would run with the stuff... This was planned and orchestrated. Their mistake is they didn't send the pics to Zav Girl she would have shared them... Half snide. She shared Gannon's entirely legally accessible photos and in a paid member area (not me, I don't pay to watch any such channels), but people still thought it despicable. She however would have shared them and f she got repercussions she just disappears for awhile and then back she comes... A bit of a sidetrack here but yeah they intended and hoped someone as unethical as selves would send them viral.

And it is for Allen? I don't believe that for a minute.

On a completely separate and alien note, so wifey continues to stand by him... She is not gagged why doesn't she tell us about that day in their lives...

Nothing about ANY of this removes Allen. And I don't know how to explain it but in the recent hearing? I saw the killer. Imo. No emaciated attempt to look like a pathetic abused and lost soul.

ONLY if this man was manufactured out of the blue and railroaded and placed there without proof could I think otherwise but he PUT himself there. Did some O guy pick him out of the crowd and march him at gun point to the DNR guy for an interview at a grocery store as they just somehow knew he had been there? Uh-huh.

I'm going to repeat this for what is turning into many times now. WHO "typed" and wrote the O filing? Let's go back to the start of this new blizzard... Key into it. Who drafted it?
The Franks Memo was filed by defense. The Court didn't reject it. It's on the docket and (some surviving judge) will deal with the Franks hearing.
The Franks Memo and related theories are irrelevant to the structural issue at hand.
The Judge does NOT have the power to block court records via "confidential" or "
The Judge does NOT have the power to remove RA's chosen and desired counsel for "gross negligence". Judicial Overreach. Foul. Judge wrong.
Should the trial proceed with the Judge blocking RA's chosen counsel, the trial will be ripe for appeal and the verdict vacated.
Period. The End.
But we should probably wait for the Supreme Court to make this determination. JHMO :hugs:
 
I can't actually see what the judge has done wrong, except maybe not allowing Rozzi to stay on the case. Baldwin deffo should be gone and maybe lose his licence or be charged with something - a guy died because of his actions. MW the leaker should be charged too.
 
You don't do YT?

When, around the time he confessed? If true that makes his lawyers even more sus if you ask me...
When was it he confessed, two months ago (that we know of) ?

When was the leak and the leaker suicide? Hey I wonder if this scumbag MW did the Frank's motion?

Answering my own question about the confessions - it was first mentioned on here in June, ie 5 months ago. The source I saw about a possible plea deal was 2 months old IIRC.

Here's a June link about his confessions-

 
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I can't actually see what the judge has done wrong, except maybe not allowing Rozzi to stay on the case. Baldwin deffo should be gone and maybe lose his licence or be charged with something - a guy died because of his actions. MW the leaker should be charged too.
I agree Baldwin should probably get a contempt fine. However, we haven't seen the MW affidavit. I'm not even sure what they should be charged with yet.
 
Gma- i really wish you'd just trust me. 🙏 If you want a guilty against RA to stick, you want Gull to disappear.
Otherwise, a guilty RA will appeal and walk away a free man. If his rights are abused, as she's doing right now ... that's it.
The end.

except this: Why do you think the Supreme Court accepted an emergency case against Gull?
I don't distrust you but I don't have to be on the same page as you and I am not at this point. And let's just make it clear it is the Indiana Supreme Court just because people see that and think it means the U.S. Supreme Court. I have encountered people who don't know there are State Supreme Courts.

Anyhow there has been no ruling yet and they are issuing a ruling on something going on in an active case. I am not sure where the emergency thing comes from, we had a ruling during our case that had to be waited for as the defense appealed the judge's decision on something. They lost. I'm not sure but I think they have to take and respond to these things, I won't swear to it but there seemed to be no question in ours that they would be issuing an answer even before it was appealed and asked. This is not the same as appeals that are filed after a conviction. It is what is done if in disagreement with a judge's decision DURING a case, there needs to be someone to go to and that's what is happening here. Imo. I'm not positive but that's how I interpret it.

As to his rights being abused, that too has not been determined and you state it as fact. They could do anything, they could simply order her to correct a few things and on the case goes WITH the new attorneys. They could do nothing and agree with her. They could grant Allen his attorneys AND leave her on the case. And they could oust her just out of caution AND leave the new attorneys.

When I clear the smoke or the 100 mile an hour winds blowing sn*w all over, I don't see much wrong that does not stem from Baldwin's gross negligence. Her sealing and docket may need some correcting, however, even there the things they claim haven't been put up make sense to me BUT it sounds as if she is not timely with any of it, not sure on that but if so, they may correct that, etc.

I do worry that there are politics and more going on here and something more for that reason I'd worry about the ISC as well. My original response to this post of yours I cut and decided to start over but I may still post it as a separate post.

They could out of an abundance of caution clear the slate entirely, new judge and new attorneys yet again. Personally I can't see how they'd leave Baldwin and Rozzi in place IF the ISC is a serious court with no agenda. I say that because basically illegal things have went on in our own with illegal change and ousting by the other party recently, not ousting out of office but as to who leads internally and internal b.s. going on. Off topic but people need to realize what is going on these days, it all is going to have serious devastating impacts if it isn't stopped. That comment is not meant to relate to this case but simply saying depending on who sits on the ISC and agendas, well anything could go on or be going on that would impact the decision.

I am not sure where I am at yet, I may end up where you are but will await the decision for one and hope it is a serious one by a serious court hopefully made up of ethical judges. I think much has been made into things and ran with that shouldn't have been, I can tell you that. I get to thinking something like about Gull and then the smoke clears as I said and I see that SOME is not anything like it has been blown up to be.

The ONLY thing I am sure of is Baldwin needs to go. I think they both do. I could have possibly seen Rozzi staying on OR just assisting new counsel in getting up to speed but then he was as much behind the filing of the O thing and it hitting the public and its absolute failure to be written as a serious legal document with facts and I think the way that was all done very much matches the subsequent leaking and agenda. And THEN they are asking together to stay on pro bono showing he wants to still align with Baldwin. They have to go.

By the way Supreme Courts tend to be sticklers about form. They can reject something just because the date is in the wrong place and it is not double spaced, margins wrong or has no citations, etc. I am half making up the details as I can't recall the rules but IN's may be different anyhow. If they had had something like the O filing sent to them, oh my goodness I can't even imagine and THEN that it is theoretical and they outright say names of who THEY SAY did it...

I can't help but think IF made up of serious law following judges that Gull may be made to correct a few things and may even out of caution and perception be removed, those two and especially one may get a pretty good slap or two or certainly criticism in what has happened in the case due to them and their failures and antics. Failure meaning an in ability to even understand basic security in a law office. Failure to be able to file a serious Franks motion in any manner that can be taken seriously or even READ and ingested.

I am not too impressed with IN with what I see legally/cases. I love many people who live there, i have a favorite cousin there and a dear friend. More than one on this site also reside there. Maybe the ISC can change my mind and impress as serious and right judges and maybe they will confirm my thoughts. We shall see.

Behind all of this, there is something still going on as many feel, beyond politics (although that could be all of it or a big part), something "off" although that can be caused by all the secrecy even... I just don't know...

The simplest thing may be a clean slate BUT what judge would even WANT this case? By the way if they do "control" their courtroom like had she sanctioned the defense attorneys early on, people would say she wasn't fair to the defendant and reprimanded his lawyers which detrimentally affects him. My God.

IF his attorneys could just BEHAVE and learn what even a lock, a deadbolt, a password is... No, no, here's a key, just go on in when I'm not there any time you please... THERE DOES need to be a LOT more explanation on why some former employee/friend even had such access. One thing Supreme Courts do and can do and are great at (if a serious one) is taking what is OBVIOUS and saying so.

I don't know what will happen here but I will wait to see. All of the sn*w in the meantime I am not going to fall for any longer whether by the defense attorneys, MS, Court TV, other podcasters and talking heads, etc. A SERIOUS SUPREME COURT (if they are one) will CLEAR all the b.s.

Yes I've gone on and wandered too. A rare morning of a day I don't have to 'work" but I do have to "work" just not "work" the paying job. Wanted to sleep in but woke up like clockwork and couldn't, so sitting here in the dark taking some time to actually just ponder and talk out loud by keyboard... I don't get much chance for that these days. Maybe I made sense maybe I didn't. Sitting with a cup of java in the dark just trying to take a breath and that won't last long as new issues and problems to deal with as well as the continuing older ones there is never enough time for.

I trust you but you are back and forth yourself imo. How can any of us not be?

I am not back and forth on a few things. One is that these attorneys have to go. It "appears" that is interfering with RA's rights but is it? It was imo protecting him until AFTER the fact they offer pro bono. After their screw up. Honestly imo they are USING HIM. However on the flip side I suspect HE is playing them and all. See?

Well we have it confirmed yet again the wifey stands by him. The one he confessed to and who hung up on him... Let's hear those calls. Didn't she confirm him still having the jacket, etc. Maybe she can tell us about that day and what went on as to time frame, work, whether he was where he was to be and if he took a sudden interesting in laundry that day... Like I keep saying, there is much we don't know.

This is going to fill up @Tresir 's phone screen AND I cut part off... She has never used the chair to my knowledge but I feel it coming for some reason.... :cowcouch:
 
I can't actually see what the judge has done wrong, except maybe not allowing Rozzi to stay on the case. Baldwin deffo should be gone and maybe lose his licence or be charged with something - a guy died because of his actions. MW the leaker should be charged too.
I don't either. A whole lot of smoke has been blown that makes it seem so. I may have said the same about Rozzi HOWEVER the man has aligned with Baldwin and he also I'd have to say stands behind that O filing and submitted it. BOTH were attorneys at the time of all leaks.
 

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