LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

1581272168478.png

Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


1581272119747.png


 
Last edited by a moderator:
The Franks Memo was filed by defense. The Court didn't reject it. It's on the docket and (some surviving judge) will deal with the Franks hearing.
The Franks Memo and related theories are irrelevant to the structural issue at hand.
The Judge does NOT have the power to block court records via "confidential" or "
The Judge does NOT have the power to remove RA's chosen and desired counsel for "gross negligence". Judicial Overreach. Foul. Judge wrong.
Should the trial proceed with the Judge blocking RA's chosen counsel, the trial will be ripe for appeal and the verdict vacated.
Period. The End.
But we should probably wait for the Supreme Court to make this determination. JHMO :hugs:
Agreed let's wait for the INDIANA Supreme Court decision. Just making it clear again this is not the US SC. If it was SC with Murdaugh I wouldn't trust the reach for a moment and I wonder here honestly. We shall see...

Yes defense filed Franks memorandum. Court sealed it once seen but it was ALREADY out.

The Franks theories yes do not relate to the structural issue but was part of a multi step plan and onward and onto the next blizzard of leaked photos. Imo.

I do NOT like the sealing of records in almost ANY case but many are doing it and ID, CO without legtimate cause and more, they need to be taken to task but that is getting into bigger sh*t and politics and watch out, it isn't trending the right way. As also isn't soft sentencing, no true sentencing, release of people who were never meant to get out, etc. Like I said another topic and a deep one for another day.

I do not know what the judge's power is for removal and I admit that and it is also why I am not decided. What is it she was to do? For at least the SECOND time at minimum? Maybe a hearing should have been held and more, I don't know but while pics were sitting in the hands of tons of people who had interest and gain to publish them?

RA is only choosing counsel after the fact who SAID they can go pro bono AFTER they were removed for wrongdoing, did they offer or were they before that??? No, he does not have a choice when using public defenders. This one is one it will be interesting to see the ruling on.

Nothing is necessarily period, the end. Especially in this messed up world these days. But IF it was as it should be without compromised courts and powers that be in SOME or MANY places (that would get into politics), yes, let'\s wait for the INDIANA Supreme Court's decision.

And clearing the smoke, fog and blizzard from it all, we have TWO YOUNG girls on the brink of high school who were brutally murdered and went one day with their best friend to have a good day and perhaps meet a boy cute enough, adult and a hottie with anticipation of meeting him without the wisdom or life experience to realize this was likely not a reality. This is my main view/theory. It is not some bunch of Os. TWO YOUNG GIRLS going through a he77 none of us want to think about or have the details of although the defense does by funneling the photos and WHATEVER is in these photos does NOT remove Allen FROM IT. It cannot. They cannot. This no way imo is about concern for Allen, it is for pay, or fame or a win from such OR the USE of this case for politics, positions and more.

By the way not a single member of my family could tell you about this case for as big as it is. I have brought it up before. They aren't crime followers, might watch Forensic Files or some such, see something on some documentary, etc. and if they see anything at all on MSM it is quickly forgotten as news go on plus they know nothing to begin with.

YES I do think awaiting the ISC's decison would be the way to go. Hopefully they are a serous court and an ethical one that will issue a thoughtful decision and give the reasons behind it as they are meant to do. They should be looking at the facts and not the smoke...
 
I don't distrust you but I don't have to be on the same page as you and I am not at this point. And let's just make it clear it is the Indiana Supreme Court just because people see that and think it means the U.S. Supreme Court. I have encountered people who don't know there are State Supreme Courts.

Anyhow there has been no ruling yet and they are issuing a ruling on something going on in an active case. I am not sure where the emergency thing comes from, we had a ruling during our case that had to be waited for as the defense appealed the judge's decision on something. They lost. I'm not sure but I think they have to take and respond to these things, I won't swear to it but there seemed to be no question in ours that they would be issuing an answer even before it was appealed and asked. This is not the same as appeals that are filed after a conviction. It is what is done if in disagreement with a judge's decision DURING a case, there needs to be someone to go to and that's what is happening here. Imo. I'm not positive but that's how I interpret it.

As to his rights being abused, that too has not been determined and you state it as fact. They could do anything, they could simply order her to correct a few things and on the case goes WITH the new attorneys. They could do nothing and agree with her. They could grant Allen his attorneys AND leave her on the case. And they could oust her just out of caution AND leave the new attorneys.

When I clear the smoke or the 100 mile an hour winds blowing sn*w all over, I don't see much wrong that does not stem from Baldwin's gross negligence. Her sealing and docket may need some correcting, however, even there the things they claim haven't been put up make sense to me BUT it sounds as if she is not timely with any of it, not sure on that but if so, they may correct that, etc.

I do worry that there are politics and more going on here and something more for that reason I'd worry about the ISC as well. My original response to this post of yours I cut and decided to start over but I may still post it as a separate post.

They could out of an abundance of caution clear the slate entirely, new judge and new attorneys yet again. Personally I can't see how they'd leave Baldwin and Rozzi in place IF the ISC is a serious court with no agenda. I say that because basically illegal things have went on in our own with illegal change and ousting by the other party recently, not ousting out of office but as to who leads internally and internal b.s. going on. Off topic but people need to realize what is going on these days, it all is going to have serious devastating impacts if it isn't stopped. That comment is not meant to relate to this case but simply saying depending on who sits on the ISC and agendas, well anything could go on or be going on that would impact the decision.

I am not sure where I am at yet, I may end up where you are but will await the decision for one and hope it is a serious one by a serious court hopefully made up of ethical judges. I think much has been made into things and ran with that shouldn't have been, I can tell you that. I get to thinking something like about Gull and then the smoke clears as I said and I see that SOME is not anything like it has been blown up to be.

The ONLY thing I am sure of is Baldwin needs to go. I think they both do. I could have possibly seen Rozzi staying on OR just assisting new counsel in getting up to speed but then he was as much behind the filing of the O thing and it hitting the public and its absolute failure to be written as a serious legal document with facts and I think the way that was all done very much matches the subsequent leaking and agenda. And THEN they are asking together to stay on pro bono showing he wants to still align with Baldwin. They have to go.

By the way Supreme Courts tend to be sticklers about form. They can reject something just because the date is in the wrong place and it is not double spaced, margins wrong or has no citations, etc. I am half making up the details as I can't recall the rules but IN's may be different anyhow. If they had had something like the O filing sent to them, oh my goodness I can't even imagine and THEN that it is theoretical and they outright say names of who THEY SAY did it...

I can't help but think IF made up of serious law following judges that Gull may be made to correct a few things and may even out of caution and perception be removed, those two and especially one may get a pretty good slap or two or certainly criticism in what has happened in the case due to them and their failures and antics. Failure meaning an in ability to even understand basic security in a law office. Failure to be able to file a serious Franks motion in any manner that can be taken seriously or even READ and ingested.

I am not too impressed with IN with what I see legally/cases. I love many people who live there, i have a favorite cousin there and a dear friend. More than one on this site also reside there. Maybe the ISC can change my mind and impress as serious and right judges and maybe they will confirm my thoughts. We shall see.

Behind all of this, there is something still going on as many feel, beyond politics (although that could be all of it or a big part), something "off" although that can be caused by all the secrecy even... I just don't know...

The simplest thing may be a clean slate BUT what judge would even WANT this case? By the way if they do "control" their courtroom like had she sanctioned the defense attorneys early on, people would say she wasn't fair to the defendant and reprimanded his lawyers which detrimentally affects him. My God.

IF his attorneys could just BEHAVE and learn what even a lock, a deadbolt, a password is... No, no, here's a key, just go on in when I'm not there any time you please... THERE DOES need to be a LOT more explanation on why some former employee/friend even had such access. One thing Supreme Courts do and can do and are great at (if a serious one) is taking what is OBVIOUS and saying so.

I don't know what will happen here but I will wait to see. All of the sn*w in the meantime I am not going to fall for any longer whether by the defense attorneys, MS, Court TV, other podcasters and talking heads, etc. A SERIOUS SUPREME COURT (if they are one) will CLEAR all the b.s.

Yes I've gone on and wandered too. A rare morning of a day I don't have to 'work" but I do have to "work" just not "work" the paying job. Wanted to sleep in but woke up like clockwork and couldn't, so sitting here in the dark taking some time to actually just ponder and talk out loud by keyboard... I don't get much chance for that these days. Maybe I made sense maybe I didn't. Sitting with a cup of java in the dark just trying to take a breath and that won't last long as new issues and problems to deal with as well as the continuing older ones there is never enough time for.

I trust you but you are back and forth yourself imo. How can any of us not be?

I am not back and forth on a few things. One is that these attorneys have to go. It "appears" that is interfering with RA's rights but is it? It was imo protecting him until AFTER the fact they offer pro bono. After their screw up. Honestly imo they are USING HIM. However on the flip side I suspect HE is playing them and all. See?

Well we have it confirmed yet again the wifey stands by him. The one he confessed to and who hung up on him... Let's hear those calls. Didn't she confirm him still having the jacket, etc. Maybe she can tell us about that day and what went on as to time frame, work, whether he was where he was to be and if he took a sudden interesting in laundry that day... Like I keep saying, there is much we don't know.

This is going to fill up @Tresir 's phone screen AND I cut part off... She has never used the chair to my knowledge but I feel it coming for some reason.... :cowcouch:
Biggest yet - 7 screen lengths.
 
New:
Gull got her own attny for the SCOIN (that's for @GrandmaBear cuz she's right) matter and has requested a week's extension ... to return papers ... (which she'll probably be granted). jmo

Expired Document Link - MyCase
Not surprised, would have thought we would hear she had one before now as they are "after" her, it isn't like they are only asking for a look at a decision which is what happened in our case. It upset us and delayed things and I'd never known of such a thing despite following crime, etc. but it makes sense and if I have it right it is the recourse you have during the criminal process to have a judge's decision reviewed.

And now it can be seen too even though news and such is stating they took it on some "emergency" basis and took it as f they didn't have to, I think they do and it was no "emergency" and it will likely be a bit before we get a decision. Not sure on this but I am PRETTY sure. We asked our team. It isn't the same at all as appealing a conviction or where they pick and choose which case to pick or review.

In fact, a decision is not going to be immediate or the result of an "emergency" although I suspect they will try to be very timely with this one.

I am really not liking the "news" and the talk on this, I almost feel as if the defense is behind it all--I tell myself that it can't be but it sure keeps seeming like that. Perhaps it is that everything they do or file "news" of all types pick up and run with. In other words, their blizzards or smoke and antics WORK and that is NOT GOOD. Jmo.
 
Biggest yet - 7 screen lengths.
I cut a couple of them off lol, it was longer. I had a whole thing about going to Walgreens yesterday for a prescription and them calling for help in the photo department.... I figured it was a sidetrack and needed its own post and the one I was doing was long enough and so I cut that part off. I may never get back to it but the whole time i waited in Walgreen's I thought of RA and CVS...

The conclusion of that part had I shared it would be that IF he missed work, left work and did not return, or was to work that day, they would definitely NOTICE and FEEL it but then we do not know those details, perhaps it was a normal day off for him...
 
Over 7 for me.
I just listened to this podcast from MS (March 2023) because it is an interview with MW (the subsequent leaker) talking about his employment history/working relationship with AB. It is 1 hour 21 minutes and I have made it to 1.08 then my battery ran out. So I am posting the link on here. I would like to know your impressions.

I think he may be the author of the Frank's motion.

 
I cut a couple of them off lol, it was longer. I had a whole thing about going to Walgreens yesterday for a prescription and them calling for help in the photo department.... I figured it was a sidetrack and needed its own post and the one I was doing was long enough and so I cut that part off. I may never get back to it but the whole time i waited in Walgreen's I thought of RA and CVS...

The conclusion of that part had I shared it would be that IF he missed work, left work and did not return, or was to work that day, they would definitely NOTICE and FEEL it but then we do not know those details, perhaps it was a normal day off for him...
You just cannot keep away from this case even on your day off.
 
Over 7 for me.
I'm on a jumbo TV screen and it's still over 7 screens.
I do get under her skin, eh? :haha:
she loves me she loves me not ... she's very sweet and considerate and kind unlike moi. :flower:
i'm going to send her a box of chocolates! 🍩

Remember @GrandmaBear, I'm just supporting subbing out the ref for a more experienced one for the real game ... AND it's for a good cause ... which to keep the constitution alive. :gavel:


I have no theories about RA's guilt/non-guilt, but I expect that could happen as we move through trial. I'm goin' in with no preconceived notions.
Blind as justice. ⚖️

UNLIKE THE REST OF Y'ALL :pillow:

humbly bumbly dumbly fumbly rumbly mumbly tumbly opinions all my own.
 
I just listened to this podcast from MS (March 2023) because it is an interview with MW (the subsequent leaker) talking about his employment history/working relationship with AB. It is 1 hour 21 minutes and I have made it to 1.08 then my battery ran out. So I am posting the link on here. I would like to know your impressions.

I think he may be the author of the Frank's motion.

That's what I've been saying...... Hinting... Etc. posts ago here. I keep asking WHO wrote it and talking about its lack of professionalism and asking why some former friend/employee was in this office and what he was actually doing... And outing details and attaching pics etc. to that TOO.

They need to GO and SHOULD be charged.
 
You just cannot keep away from this case even on your day off.
Some day off. You and no one would believe it if I told you or of the new problems...

I don't live and breathe it but yes it is on the mind when something triggers it like Walgreens, pharmacy and a call for help in photo lol... How could RA not come to mind? This is not a common trip or experience for me. I don't shop and I certainly am almost never at a pharmacy in one of these stores (thankfully)...

I actually don't have the oomph to go into it and if you have noticed I haven't been here much on the day off. The long one I posted I actually typed this a.m. but never hit post and deleted the Walgreen's part until later in the day.

Actually unintentinoally I have listened to a ton of the testimony in the Adelson trial today (victim Markel) and not been on Delphi at all to speak of. I am lucky I got laundry done, have some new issues going on and cannot reach anyone and I am also WIPED.

I didn't even follow closely the entire Markel thing but know enough of it and had no intention of listening to any of this trial but it is on right now. I have heard Charlie. Then Wendy. Now Magna whoever is on, Katie I believe. Listened to them backwards...

He is a SNAKE and thinks he is supersmart and special. Off topic I know...

All day I've kept dozing off and am just so wiped out even now and accomplished little and it is right back to work. BITES.

I know it is basement stuff but I have not been able to even go in there in a long time, can't keep up even on cases, and I know it is off topic but I want all to know that Frank drowned a catnip mouse. This is a FIRST.
 
I'm on a jumbo TV screen and it's still over 7 screens.
I do get under her skin, eh? :haha:
she loves me she loves me not ... she's very sweet and considerate and kind unlike moi. :flower:
i'm going to send her a box of chocolates! 🍩

Remember @GrandmaBear, I'm just supporting subbing out the ref for a more experienced one for the real game ... AND it's for a good cause ... which to keep the constitution alive. :gavel:


I have no theories about RA's guilt/non-guilt, but I expect that could happen as we move through trial. I'm goin' in with no preconceived notions.
Blind as justice. ⚖️

UNLIKE THE REST OF Y'ALL :pillow:

humbly bumbly dumbly fumbly rumbly mumbly tumbly opinions all my own.
Well no chair anyhow....

You aren't under my skin lol. I am actually enjoying it and wish I had more time honestly.

I am not a Gull fan or non fan. If you want to know the truth I don't think I've ever "seen" her until watching the Court TV thing yesterday or day before, whenever it was, my days are short and jumbled...

I do think there is a ton of bluster and as I keep saying a blizzard and smoke around the facts here and the rare time i can clear it (and many others do not at all out there or even try), I'm not seeing what is being said, all I see is an agenda, AND a whole lot of people milking the controversy for views and $$ probably.

The only other thing Olenna about subbing out the ref is what ref may be put in as a replacement... The thought that keeps popping into my head is "be careful what you wish for...."

You aren't under my skin. Emu thinks he is but he isn't either even when he uses my skin to make rugs. Tresir gets close on occasion lol jk lol.

We all want justice, I know this and enjoy a good debate.

Actually what Tresir said above is what I have been wondering and getting at. This guy was "helping" the attorneys with this case AND likely wrote the high schoolish Franks thing. They have to GO. I'm sure of that.

As to Gull, I guess we shall see, I am undecided but it is hard to ignore the b.s. she has had to deal with from this bunch...
 
Last edited:

The Indiana Attorney General's office declined to represent Gull or the Carroll Circuit Court in the filing, so Gull has Indianapolis attorney Matthew Gutwein representing her, according to the filing.
 

The Indiana Attorney General's office declined to represent Gull or the Carroll Circuit Court in the filing, so Gull has Indianapolis attorney Matthew Gutwein representing her, according to the filing.
One can't help but wonder if politics are part of this and it would be no surprise but it would not explain the gross negligence part.

They were grossly negligent, I don't care how one looks at it. We all know how to at least basically secure our "homes" and not just allow anyone willy nilly easy access when you have confidential records to keep secure and are an attorney. Nothing is going to likely get me past that.

And honestly I agree with what Tresir is thinking and I've been thinking it all along, this guy was "working" for them and doing the stuff they did not dare dirty their fingers with...

Ever since I saw the after being disqualified filings, the juvenile tone of the Franks filing has stood out to the more serious filings clearly done by real attorneys and I have asked over and over WHO wrote that?

Anyhow, what a MESS.

And contrary to the belief of some out there, I picture RA sitting back, tickled as all he77. Maybe not that "his" attorneys were taken away but with all the hullabaloo, oh yes...
 
I am also going to repeat this. IF Baldwin and his leaker claim Baldwin didn't know and it is all on the leaker, then there needs to be a THEFT charge at minimum with Baldwin cooperating with pressing charges. Why the heck is there not?? I have listened to a show or two that claim there isn't much to charge the guy with other than maybe trespass but I disagree.

But I don't believe for one moment the guy wasn't there for a REASON and working for them... A good Supreme Court will see that so clearly and come back with and say as much. In my very uneducated opinion.
 
I am also going to repeat this. IF Baldwin and his leaker claim Baldwin didn't know and it is all on the leaker, then there needs to be a THEFT charge at minimum with Baldwin cooperating with pressing charges. Why the heck is there not?? I have listened to a show or two that claim there isn't much to charge the guy with other than maybe trespass but I disagree.

But I don't believe for one moment the guy wasn't there for a REASON and working for them... A good Supreme Court will see that so clearly and come back with and say as much. In my very uneducated opinion.
I read ages ago it was an employee of the law firm. Whether MW worked for them at the time, I'm not sure.
 
I read ages ago it was an employee of the law firm. Whether MW worked for them at the time, I'm not sure.
Same here, I can't pinpoint it but there have been rumors or hints it was someone that worked for them, had an internship or some darned thing back to the first leak and again in this one... Right? Nothing quite black and white or fact but it's been said or again hinted at or wondered?
 
Was it MS that interviewed Baldwin awhile back? They interviewed MW in March? They were given a copy of the leaked crime scene photos? They hightailed it to LE? Hm.
Yeah MS has sources. That much has always been clear. At least I think so. And yes they moved quick and wasn't them, wasn't them. I do not though in any way think they did the office leak but likely have had some info over these years and times and know when to say nope, better turn that one in and not share it... My memory is foggy but in Kline I believe something hit the docket or was filed in the system that was not supposed to be and they in constantly checking found it before it got corrected... Do I have that right? I thought and wondered at the time that that could be due to a clerk of court etc... And did that person inform them, etc. or are they just so lucky in getting notifications from the court records that it was mistakenly filed publicly and they lucked onto it...

I also have wondered if they have worked with LE and some info on Kline was intended to be put out accidentally...

I get what you are saying and have wondered myself.

I do have questions but none change my mind about Baldwin and this "nonemployee" with such free access to his office and computers and the like.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
2,999
Messages
238,338
Members
953
Latest member
dayday
Back
Top Bottom