FL MADELINE SOTO: Missing from Orlando, FL - 26 Feb 2024 - Age 13 *Found Deceased*

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Madeline Soto missing: Florida mom begs for daughter's safe return home​

A mother in Orange County is begging for help locating her missing daughter.

Madeline ‘Maddie’ Soto was last seen on Monday, one day after she and her family celebrated her 13th birthday. Maddie’s mother, Jenn Soto, said surveillance video shows Maddie hanging out in a church parking lot on February 26 after being dropped off for school, but she never made it inside.

"I’m trying to hope for the best, but I’m scared for her," said Jenn Soto. "I want her to be okay; I want her to be safe… I don’t want her to come back harmed. I just want her back – whatever that means, I just want her back."

Jenn Soto said sheriff’s deputies are using K9s and a piece of Maddie’s clothing to try to track her scent near Town Loop Boulevard.

According to Jenn Soto, Maddie had never run away before. She said the teen had forgotten her cell phone at home that morning, but that was normal.

As of Wednesday morning, a variety of search teams are out searching for Maddie.


MEDIA - MADELINE SOTO: Missing from Orlando, FL - 26 Feb 2024 - Age 13
 
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They wish they could talk one day and find out how he ended up in all this and understand but they believe they will always be recorded and there will never be that chance. Well duh, yeah. As it should be. Sorry and I get it to a point, it's your son, and they seem to KNOW he's done wrong, but what do you think he'd tell you that could ever explain it or wouldn't be lies.... NOTHING explains or excuses what he did. NOTHING.
 
Listening to more. Plunder can push the patience a bit and walks the line as to sensational but she is sharing what was released and so... Grizzly would come across as more responsible but I KNOW better. Regardless, more new stuff out and again in time if not already, you can find it elsewhere since they let anyone take it and they share it.
Thanks. I'll check with Gray and if he doesn't have it or hasn't yet shared it, he will.
 

Madeline Soto update: 'I didn't start it,' Stephan Sterns tells dad in recorded jail call​

"I didn't start it" Those are the words Stephan Sterns, the man accused of assaulting and killing 13-year-old Madeline Soto, told his parents in a recorded call from jail, audio which was released to FOX 35 Orlando.

The Florida State Attorney's Office released additional documents, including audio of a recorded call in May 2024 from jail between Sterns and who appears to be his parents.

During the nearly 15-minute call, Sterns laments that he received the "world's sh**iest birthday present," wishes his mom a belated birthday and Mother's Day, and attempts to answer his parents' questions about the ongoing investigation.

It appears that the phone call happened after first-degree premeditated murder charges were filed against him in April.
  • Stern's dad: "We're you expecting these charges?"
  • Sterns: "No."
  • Dad: "A murder charge? So you got blindsided by that?"
  • Sterns: "Yeah. Obviously, it's not true. Ya know, I never would have wanted her gone for any reason. Pre-meditated first-degree is kind of a (expletive)-punch"
Sterns then asked his parents if they had any updates, though it was not specific as to what anyone was referring to.
  • Sterns: "No, I was wondering if you had any updates or anything?"
  • Parents: "Nope. We haven't heard a thing. Just speculation that she's been put in an institution and hiding in an institution"
  • Mom: "At her lawyers request."
  • Dad: "Are you helping? Are you cooperating with police about her participation in any of this stuff?"
  • Sterns: "There's been no opportunity for me to cooperate with anything. As I understand, the police keep saying I'm uncooperative, but they haven't asked me anything to cooperate with. So, whatever that means.
  • Dad: "Your attorney isn't approaching them and saying my client would like to speak with you?
  • Sterns: "No, my attorneys are pretty much saying to keep my mouth shut until the trial starts."
Sterns is the only person who has been charged in the disappearance and death of Madeline Soto. Jennifer Soto, the girl's mom, has not been named a person of interest or a suspect, and no charges have been filed against her.

Another woman also lived with Jenn and her daughter. She told detectives that she thought Sterns was acted odd before Maddie was reported missing. She noticed that he had power tools, though it was unclear what project he was working on. He also did laundry, something she said he never did.

At another point in the call, Sterns' dad appears to wonder if Sterns could provide insight on the allegations.
  • "I wish there was a way that, ya know, you and I can have a conversation, all of us could have a conversation, to understand what's taken place, how this came about, how you're life here, because it would help us better understand the situation because we're at a loss for understanding how all this came about. We're just totally baffled," Sterns' dad said.
  • "I didn't start it," Sterns responds, almost defensively.
  • "OK. You didn't start it, but you participated in it, which is just as bad as not starting it, but that's for another day."
Sterns then told his dad that he was unable to discuss details of the case and that his dad could schedule a time to visit him in jail. However, his dad said there would be no opportunity for them to talk while not recorded.

Sterns then asked if his parents could add more money to his jail commissary account.
  • Sterns: "If you wouldn't mind putting a little more money in my commissary as well"
  • Dad: "Alright. I can't do much, Steph, because we are really, when I say dead ass broke, I mean dead ass broke."
"I didn't start it". Are you 8?. Well MORON!!! They have you recorded!!!! NO DENIAL!!! He didn't deny it. You're worried about your commissary money!!!
 
Thanks. I'll check with Gray and if he doesn't have it or hasn't yet shared it, he will.
You're welcome. I'm sure he will eventually. You know Delphi winding up when it does is a big one of Gray's, I mean I'd say his top one for many years now. It's the only one Tom follows, I wonder if he'll be talked into another or wait until something grabs him. Gray has started out with Soto so am sure he will stay with it.

They had said more would be coming, I think Plunder said that and seems it is so.
 
"I didn't start it". Are you 8?. Well MORON!!! They have you recorded!!!! NO DENIAL!!! He didn't deny it. You're worried about your commissary money!!!
Yeah isn't he a real prize? If you listen to any of the recordings you can really tell what his intent is and it's not about him missing his parents.

I find it curious he's worried about his SS card... My thought is it was in a box with something else he wanted them finding and not someone else finding, no idea... He talks of needing it if ever free and they aren't around, etc... It isn't like a person can't get another so that's strange. You do only get so many in a lifetime though. Is it 11? I had an adult child/have one that went through a great many of hers before she was very old, constantly losing them. Even if I kept them in the safe, she'd need it for something, a new job perhaps, and promptly lose it.

Do prison wages go towards SS earnings and are they taxable lol? Not that he's in prison yet, he's not.

Who knows but his talking about being free is ludicrous. He isn't going anywhere other from jail to prison or to death row and I'd guess the latter...
 
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So I didn't finish Plunder last night but saw a good portion of her show. Listening to some more right now. And here's a ton and a lot of the kinds of info that she's not going to put out there . One notable thing is how they identified MS in some of these awful SA photos, and that's by a birthmark she has near a certain area. And him similarly, he has identifying things on his body...

Makes me think of how JS said she really need to see like her face or this about him, etc. to be sure, uhm if cops recognized these things she couldn't...?

There's a fair amount about and leaning to this poor child groomed since 8, 7? Actually thought they were in love, would be together, have a child, etc... It sure is looking that way and I've felt they have been on this kind of thing throughout... But then at some point they knew of was it the parenting coins and things MS said to SS etc... There's a lot to take in and I think it's barely been covered yet but she started out with quite some stuff covered here... She does put a ton of work in and that's obvious, gets records, helps pay for records, etc. Something about having tried to search through records already received with new ones now received, run for certain terms or a comparison but the way they are doing them or release them, isn't working so well. Just saying she puts in a TON of time and effort. She also ends every video with ia Bible verse and I for one like that. Not always a fan of everything but a lot better than yrs ago imo.

Not really posting to be about that though, but about there's a lot of further info in this new release/dump and I think it may keep coming for awhile/being covered for awhile again.

however, Delph is on as well a few key ones cover both cases but Delphi has long been awaited.

Anyhow both MS and SS could be identified in many of these SA pics, etc. through identifying marks on their body and so on.
 
You're welcome. I'm sure he will eventually. You know Delphi winding up when it does is a big one of Gray's, I mean I'd say his top one for many years now. It's the only one Tom follows, I wonder if he'll be talked into another or wait until something grabs him. Gray has started out with Soto so am sure he will stay with it.
So, I've already heard the jail call where SS said he didn't start it but the info re parent coins and MS and SS in a romantic relationship is new to me.
I see now why that detective said what he did to Jennifer, although, it wasn't his belief but actual fact.
In my opinion, detectives should have always leveled with Jennifer about what they found.
Treating Jennifer as though she's a suspect gained absolutely nothing.
 
So, I've already heard the jail call where SS said he didn't start it but the info re parent coins and MS and SS in a romantic relationship is new to me.
I see now why that detective said what he did to Jennifer, although, it wasn't his belief but actual fact.
In my opinion, detectives should have always leveled with Jennifer about what they found.
Treating Jennifer as though she's a suspect gained absolutely nothing.
I'm going to respectfully disagree with you on that one having been through our own situation. Detectives don't trust anyone until they are so sure who is clear and imo rightfully so. And I'd hope you can at least admit that Jennifer wasn't exactly the norm in how she was acting with her we, and tons more. They don't clear or trust dad, mom, an uncle, a grandma until they know who's who and what's what or feel they have a very good idea of what's up.

My daughter has to be questioned and cleared and we had no info shared until they knew beyond a shadow of a doubt pretty much that no way. Thankfully, she was only with the other side(the baby), well NOT thankfully actually sadly and so heartbreakingly unfortuante, there were texts and other things that putting it so squarely on him.

No way should they always have leveled with her and the woman was still prone to trying to help or save him too.

Again I'm respectfully disagreeing. I don't disagree with all LE does and one of their one size fits all approach but I do agree until you know what's what, who's who, and they can clear themselves, you don't share. Families of course don't always understand this BUT if you go through it over the long wrong and look back, I'd say one understands it...

ONCE they had a pretty good grasp in ours, they would share, however, even then it was careful at first and based on if shared, if you held it to self.

I'm sorry but JS is and made herself as suspect here as anyone could as well. And I'd doubt they to this day level or share all with her or her atty. And for good reason.

It was fairly short order for us but it was a couple of months I'd say. And for my daughter who totally cleared but they worried about her emotional state I'd say and saying something or slipping so they don't level and they don't share all, and rightfully so, and they should have worried about ours too as it is very unnatural to keep quiet in such a situation. Beyond doable at times it feels.

Anyhow, that could be a sidetrack so I'll leave it. I simply respectfully disagree on that part and JS kind of put herself there. They cannot determine what you might know that you should not without telling you all and doing questions like pg tests, etc. They did that right if you ask me.

We aren't going to likely, as we know agree on this part or on JS, so I'll leave that now.

Now onto MS thinking this was a relationship, he loved her, a romantic one and her naive since being groomed since single digits and probably turned against her mom and had him playing both and triangulating, many a person out there has thought such from the start. I've thought the same or at least wondered...And it seems they were dead on right... Most of the same think JS was jeallous of MS due to the relationship SS and MS had...Even if she wasn't thinking sexual, I'd say this is likely re their closeness over her closeness with her own daughter, etc...

Also imo she was being alienated from her own daughter whether she realized it or not, and when she put him out, part of it was likely hoping to get some control back again and a relationship with her daughter or she was realizing or trying to figure out what to do BUT at the same time they were on the Google Facetime whatever it's called all day all of the time, the three even and the three in her bed... To me this was to include herself where she was left out maybe....

Not sure I'm making any sense and just forming some thoughts over it and on an earlier day today, not a lot of time.

But yeah these pregnancy coins... And I've felt as you know the focus on that even by LE not just the public had me wondering... Not a conclusion yet but seems like there's something there whether pregnant or not, may have even wanted to be and thought he wanted the same from his playing of her...

He's a sickening POS and I don't know where minds like this come from/stem from in even knowing exactly what he was doing. I suppose some of it started with knowing how to manipulate his own parents from a young age... Beyond what I can think on right now...

I'd like to hear from JS with some time from now... If she truly, truly didn't know, she will look back and see a lot she missed with some distance...

However, I have not excluded her yet and cannot. And it's hard to forgive her for her backing up of him more than her SA'ed murdered daughter.

I'm really pushing it today and sh*t it's pitch dark at 7:10 a.m. and who really wants to think it's time to move to get ready for work in pitch black.

As always, I know we don't always agree, but know and trust we love the discussion, and never take offense.

I hope you have a great day!
 
I'm going to respectfully disagree with you on that one having been through our own situation. Detectives don't trust anyone until they are so sure who is clear and imo rightfully so. And I'd hope you can at least admit that Jennifer wasn't exactly the norm in how she was acting with her we, and tons more. They don't clear or trust dad, mom, an uncle, a grandma until they know who's who and what's what or feel they have a very good idea of what's up.
I didn't mean to imply that I think detectives should trust everyone.
You know, as an investigation unfolds, it should become more clear both who's a suspect and who isn't.
Of course, for that to happen, interpretations must be accurate or needless to say, they'll find themselves barking up the wrong tree.
No way should they always have leveled with her and the woman was still prone to trying to help or save him too.
Sorry if I implied they should have "always" leveled with her.
Re "still prone to trying to protect him", I'd like to share my interpretations. First, she believed Madeline was abducted and that LE were going the wrong way, therefore wasting time by focusing on Sterns. Next, she wouldn't nor hadn't accepted that it was Sterns in those photos.
Last, as she tried to explain to that detective in her last interview the day Madeline's body was found, what may have been interpreted as making excuses for Sterns was actually her effort to provide insight re Sterns.
I'd like to hear from JS with some time from now... If she truly, truly didn't know, she will look back and see a lot she missed with some distance...
She was already looking back and that's the thing; she didn't see anything she'd missd. In other words, it wasn't a oh- now- it- all- makes- sense situation.
I'm sure there are plenty of cases in which victim loved ones look back and can say that but not in this case.
And I'd hope you can at least admit that Jennifer wasn't exactly the norm in how she was acting with her we, and tons more.
It isn't that I'm ignoring anything, it's that my understanding of it is different than yours.
As always, I know we don't always agree, but know and trust we love the discussion, and never take offense.

I hope you have a great day!
Thanks, likewise!
 
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Jennifer made a comment that I found to be very intriguing, which was her observation that although she'd known Sterns to lie to his parents, she didn't know why she didn't think he'd lie to her, too.
(Since it's crossed my mind and I'd found it so interesting, I just thought I'd share that, lol!)
 
I didn't mean to imply that I think detectives should trust everyone.
You know, as an investigation unfolds, it should become more clear both who's a suspect and who isn't.
Of course, for that to happen, interpretations must be accurate or needless to say, they'll find themselves barking up the wrong tree.

Sorry if I implied they should have "always" leveled with her.
Re "still prone to trying to protect him", I'd like to share my interpretations. First, she believed Madeline was abducted and that LE were going the wrong way, therefore wasting time- by focusing on Sterns. 2. As she tried to explain to that detective in her last interview the day Madeline's body was found, what may have been interpreted as making excuses for Sterns was actually her effort to provide insight re Sterns. 3. She wouldn't nor hadn't accepted that it was Sterns in those photos.

She was already looking back and that's the thing; she didn't see anything she'd missd. In other words, it wasn't a oh- now- it- all- makes- sense situation.
I'm sure there are plenty of cases in which victim loved ones look back and can say that but not in this case.

It isn't that I'm ignoring anything, it's that my understanding of it is different than yours.

Thanks, likewise!
Going to try to do paragraph by paragraph so you now what I'm responding to.

First, not necessarily. There are some cases they never know in a family even if they can trust all and some just keep it to the vest entirely all along. Even in a case they might come to knowing it is one, they still need to be sure to all exclusion that the partner, parent, etc. (as here) had no knowledge and wouldn't cover for them, didn't help, didn't have a clue, etc. before they will share facts with them when asked and even then they may well not. It did become clear to them I think in fairly short order he was not the wrong tree but sharing that with JS early on I wouldn't have done either (if them) and she was thinking they had the wrong tree, okay, but because of that and her "we" and all else, they certainly am not going to make it more clear to her what they know, found or think, until totally vetting her.

Second. the first one really answers this. My first response. And she was wrong wasn't she. And no they aren't going to level, they are going to do as they did and vet her intensively and make her explain things if they can. And that's what they did. Hey, they haven't charged her when the majority of the public thinks she should be charged. By the way, I've meant to ask, what does Gray have to say about his thoughts on mom? Probably a bit noncommittal but I'd bet questions some...

Third, I think she can or will look back and see it makes perfect sense if she can lose the need for denial and self preservation and his first. She seems to have lost that for him, but I doubt she's really there and would prefer to believe otherwise but the entire case and no one will let her...

As far as them zoning right in on the "wrong" person when they should have been doing other things too, in her opinion, in the beginning, they were doing other things. They searched near the school, they were verifying the facts of their morning and finding them not to be true, and whereabouts, etc. They were doing exactly what they should have been. Maddie left home for school so they started looking at video of the complex for instance, the dumpster, where shed' been and even if she'd have planned to run away and live in the woods for instance, she may have thrown her laptop. They were starting from where she started that morning, AND searching near the school she was said to be dropped off and more. How is that not what any LE would and should do? and in very short order, he tripped their trigger. JS may not have known that and shoudln't have been told that imo.

I get you were mainly talking from her perspective but I think investigators did exactly as they needed to do and were not only onto him but nailed him in short order and should not of course been leaving with her or sharing all, and they still shouldn't imo to this day.

Imo you give her a lot of leeway and that's fine but even at minimum she sent her child to bed with this man, that just can't be taken away, and missed this for years on end (if even true). She's neglectful and failed to provide protection for her child in her choices and she didn't just do this for one neive year of her life, but for years on end. many a mother has been charged for a lot less seen it many times in cases. BUT they aren't going to do that when he has the huge charges and when that's the primary thing.

I see other cases too though where such isn't charged but I believe it is pending the conviction of the big fish. Audrey Cunningham, dad and grandma could be charged in my opinion. Leilani Simon just convicted, grandma could certainly be charged imo. And here, JS could be imo. With time I could name others I can recall if I think about it. No coffee yet lol but already can name a few.

So let's say she's never charged. What would you think she should do with her life now...? Get married? Have more children? Or learn to adult and get some help seeing what her own problems are? And facing them? Hide out for the rest of her life doing whatever drugs and living off someone? \

I can say one thing with certainty, she isn't a parent that will want to help others, do something in their child's name, commit themselves to it and make a difference.

I guess I should dial back and say I'm not convinced what her knowledge was, if any, but I'm off of square one of thinking she had no signs, never saw anything, ignored things or took the easy route for HER.

Anyhow, no surprise we don't agree entirely of course. And as always, at least we agree on him, that's an easy one.

And I hope she gets her sh*t together but I don't see it in her. She won't ever.

And getting lost of course is a poor 13 year old child of hers molested since a babe. A child now dead. And all took place under her own roof.

My tone is at what I see and not at you, and I love that you always get that. In return at times you make me feel too harsh at her but it's just how I feel and see it.

But we always get it is just differences in our views of it.

Mostly I love that someone is always willing to discuss this one, or any for that matter. Don't see much point in being here otherwise. Lol.

Have a great day I wish you as always!! I go in a bit later today but then work later and tomorrow go in at 11 and work later. At least it's not a 7 after a late close, etc.. My friend is always given 5s. 5a.m. and then they'll throw a night in there and have to be back at 5 the next morning. I've never had earlier than a 7 although last year I THINK I might have worked 'Black Friday starting at 5. In fact pretty sure I did as the doors weren't unlocked for the customers yet when I got there... That's the only time though. In two years.
 
I didn't mean to imply that I think detectives should trust everyone.
You know, as an investigation unfolds, it should become more clear both who's a suspect and who isn't.
Of course, for that to happen, interpretations must be accurate or needless to say, they'll find themselves barking up the wrong tree.

Sorry if I implied they should have "always" leveled with her.
Re "still prone to trying to protect him", I'd like to share my interpretations. First, she believed Madeline was abducted and that LE were going the wrong way, therefore wasting time by focusing on Sterns. Next, she wouldn't nor hadn't accepted that it was Sterns in those photos.
Last, as she tried to explain to that detective in her last interview the day Madeline's body was found, what may have been interpreted as making excuses for Sterns was actually her effort to provide insight re Sterns.

She was already looking back and that's the thing; she didn't see anything she'd missd. In other words, it wasn't a oh- now- it- all- makes- sense situation.
I'm sure there are plenty of cases in which victim loved ones look back and can say that but not in this case.

It isn't that I'm ignoring anything, it's that my understanding of it is different than yours.

Thanks, likewise!
Yes. I think she couldn't think of anyone, especially him, doing that.
 
First, not necessarily. There are some cases they never know in a family even if they can trust all and some just keep it to the vest entirely all along.
On the day of Sterns' arrest- the same day/time, actually, they were to present to Jennifer evidence of the sexual abuse of her daughter- I think they should have immediately informed that it was undoubtly Madeline and Sterns in the photos and nor did they believe it was Madeline in the church video. Instead (and imo) they went about their business in a round-about way that went nowhere and went on for way too long.
Second. the first one really answers this. My first response. And she was wrong wasn't she.
It didn't matter because I understood that it's what she believed was true. And as I've listened to subsequent interviews, I find her to always paid attention and answer every question to the best of her ability. In other words, fully cooperative. You know, it was Sterns info that was inconsistent. Jennifer's info as to how events unfolded continued to line up.
I've meant to ask, what does Gray have to say about his thoughts on mom? Probably a bit noncommittal but I'd bet questions some...
I don't recall when Gray's ever been "noncommital", to the contrary, I find him to be decisive and always one to march to his own drum.
As for his thoughts re Jenn, he and I agree although my impression of her is more positive than his.
They were starting from where she started that morning, AND searching near the school she was said to be dropped off and more. How is that not what any LE would and should do? and in very short order, he tripped their trigger. JS may not have known that and shoudln't have been told that imo.
To be clear, I don't think she should have been told anything before they arrested Sterns.
Have a great day I wish you as always!!
Will try and you, too!
 
On the day of Sterns' arrest- the same day/time, actually, they were to present to Jennifer evidence of the sexual abuse of her daughter- I think they should have immediately informed that it was undoubtly Madeline and Sterns in the photos and nor did they believe it was Madeline in the church video. Instead (and imo) they went about their business in a round-about way that went nowhere and went on for way too long.

It didn't matter because I understood that it's what she believed was true. And as I've listened to subsequent interviews, I find her to always paid attention and answer every question to the best of her ability. In other words, fully cooperative. You know, it was Sterns info that was inconsistent. Jennifer's info as to how events unfolded continued to line up.

I don't recall when Gray's ever been "noncommital", to the contrary, I find him to be decisive and always one to march to his own drum.
As for his thoughts re Jenn, he and I agree although my impression of her is more positive than his.

To be clear, I don't think she should have been told anything before they arrested Sterns.

Will try and you, too!
I just don't agree sorry, gong about it n a round about way to see what she knows and what it elicits is what I think they should do. If it elicited nothing suspicious from here, then good for her but I'd not miss any opportunity if an investigator to be SURE what she would say, knew, didn't know, etc. I don't care if it was SS, JS, a relative or grandparent or who, I'd be feeling people out rather than sharing all.

No time right now but I don't agree all she has said has lined up nor that she hasn't fudged or lied and had to correct or at least explain. I've called some of them out before and no time right now to think of and do again. But again, I've not convicted her, but I'm not on square one of benefit of the doubt to her any longer either.

I would have guessed his impression of JS was not as positive of yours re JS.

We agree on that, as to nothing shared at least before his arrest, there shouldn't be.

Yeah day four coming up here and gotta get moving. Shifts all over the place per the norm. At least my last two are consistent, a noon and 11 start versus a morning yesterday after a late close then having to be back early. There is absolutely no rhythm or a way to get into a normal sleep or day or night pattern with this job.

Nevertheless I'm going to try to get through and have an okay one and hope you have a great day too!
 
Jennifer made a comment that I found to be very intriguing, which was her observation that although she'd known Sterns to lie to his parents, she didn't know why she didn't think he'd lie to her, too.
(Since it's crossed my mind and I'd found it so interesting, I just thought I'd share that, lol!)
Not sure I saw this one. And just saw it but I'd agree that's interesting.

It reminds me of someone who cheats with a married man, wants him to leave his wife, they've lied to her about not having a marriage, being separated and unhappy, no sex, whatever, but eventually the gf pressures and the man leaves his wife and does't think the same guy is going to cheat on HER?

Duh.

I can get that naivete to a point, that she knew him as a liar to other but believe he wouldn't do such to her, partly probably because he shared how he lied to others so she felt special and he never would with her as he shared this stuff, but naivete past another of years and that it has nothing to do with her lack of attention and car of MS and such herself, that one's a lot harder.

As I think I've said before as a mom she should be beaiting herself up to no end for not seeing it...

Or maybe being an involved mom.

And that's also different, lying to his folks versus molesting your child.

But it's a good point and I can believe it but it just goes to show never dawned on her and didn't;'t for years when I guarantee she saw evidence of hints of lies to her as well over that many years. Most start to at least WONDER or have a CLUE or suspicion by then. Even if not about the SA, just the lack of things with anything in general adding up or his lies...

Regardless I can see your point on this one. And would go back to if she never had any suspicion of him or thing always added up over the man years, I'd call b.s. Adn that she ignored, forgave, dismissed and needs some again serious help.

But again I etc your point and hers. But again it's like a lover whose hub leaves their wife for them that thinks the minute he's unhappy with her and married, or has a child with her, he isn't going to cheat and look for the next new partner...

I mean JS isn't 20... And this wasn't only going on for a year... But many....
 
That's right. Just couldn't.
Would agree. She couldn't. Yet it is said or hinted she went through similar or SA in life so is that denial or should someone who had should have seen it and been far more vigilant for it...

I don't disagree the woman may have lived with total blinders and denial. But that alone means she needs some serious help. Jmo.

Nice seeing you recently in the chat elsewhere. Been a bit.
 
@Mel70 you've got a pretty good grasp on this one already so any time you get time, Niether of us disagree on SS, we do disagree somewhat on mom.

However we always enjoy the debate and I think both know that kind of thing and what it is that most can't do these days, and never take offense. Love the discussion.

Same with anyone else. Not sure sometimes the point of some who seem to have a pattern of doing the same in almost all cases. Once in awhile seem to really want to discuss but mostly not.

Very disappointed in a few.

Well you didnt' dangle me over the falls but then we were not in the falls town lol...
 
I mean JS isn't 20... And this wasn't only going on for a year... But many....
The detective told her it was 2-3 years. (Just stating a fact because I appreciate accuracy.)
As for Jennifer's age, I think it's irrelevant.

Would agree. She couldn't. Yet it is said or hinted she went through similar or SA in life so is that denial or should someone who had should have seen it and been far more vigilant for it...
I don't disagree the woman may have lived with total blinders and denial. But that alone means she needs some serious help. Jmo.
In one of her interviews, she spoke of having experienced date-rape.

You know, by coming down on Jennifer, you seem to be underestimating Sterns and those of his ilk.
I just try to understand and leave it at that because I view her as another of Sterns' victims. (Not the true victim, of course, but victimized, also.)
 

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