Oxford, MI School Shooting *Ethan Crumbley GUILTY PLEA* - *Mom & Dad GUILTY of manslaughter*

Another school shooting

Oxford High School shooting: 3 killed, 8 hurt, 15-year-old in custody, officials say

Three students have been killed, eight other people are injured and a suspected shooter is in custody after a shooting at Oxford High School on Tuesday, authorities said.

www.clickondetroit.com

 

[Cousin Dupree]

James Crumbley guilty of involuntary manslaughter in connection to Oxford High shooting

James Crumbley is the last member of his family to face accountability for his son Ethan's rampage on Nov. 30, 2021.

www.freep.com

Tresa Baldas
Detroit Free Press
March 14, 2024

The jury in the James Crumbley involuntary manslaughter trial has reached a verdict.

James Crumbley was convicted of involuntary manslaughter Thursday. (All counts)

Well, this should send a message to parents who ignore their kids mental problems in favor of their own. Hopefully, someone who needs it gets the message.

 

[GrandmaBear]

It is a case rife with issues. The child can be charged as an ADULT as if he had an adult mind and did an adult act but then the parents can be charged as he is a minor without an adult mind? Think about the contradiction there with the law having it both ways.

These kinds of cases I don't gravitate towards, mass shootings and so on and even race cases . I stay aware but they don't become the one I follow most. Even so I watched some of mom's trial and her attorney...

I think this is a slippery slope. I don't have an opinion strongly one way or another other than you charge a child as an adult but in the next breath say he was a minor whose parents are the ones responsible as he is a minor.

I mean really---think about that.

 

[GrandmaBear]

I'd also add that now the school and such should get the same and I don't mean sanctions or penalties, I mean prison time for individuals. Will that be the next step? Nope, doubt it. There might be something but there wont' be a teacher or someone charged personally and criminally that didn't do their job. SAme always goes with CPS/DCF.

 

[kdg411]

It is a case rife with issues. The child can be charged as an ADULT as if he had an adult mind and did an adult act but then the parents can be charged as he is a minor without an adult mind? Think about the contradiction there with the law having it both ways.

These kinds of cases I don't gravitate towards, mass shootings and so on and even race cases . I stay aware but they don't become the one I follow most. Even so I watched some of mom's trial and her attorney...

I think this is a slippery slope. I don't have an opinion strongly one way or another other than you charge a child as an adult but in the next breath say he was a minor whose parents are the ones responsible as he is a minor.

I mean really---think about that.

I 100% agree! As a parent with a high school student this case could set a dangerous precedent. Aggravated manslaughter was questioned by both juries & I understand why. It seems that child neglect was the primary offence, imo.

 

[GrandmaBear]

I 100% agree! As a parent with a high school student this case could set a dangerous precedent. Aggravated manslaughter was questioned by both juries & I understand why. It seems that child neglect was the primary offence, imo.

Thank you! I have felt as if no one else sees this. They played a double standard here for one. Charging him as an adult but then saying he was a minor the parents should have been in control of and on the ball with. It is a very dangerous precedent as you say or slippery slope as I said AND there are a ton of people if retroactive (not) in many cases that should be very concerned.

They weren't parents of the year and they were far from the best but they sure aren't the worst we've ever seen either.

Child neglect I'd agree with which would be the common charge.

I also don't think until one raises a teen or more than one in this world nowadays can have a good understanding right?

I do think there were signs missed here but not by just the parents, the school big time as well.

I feel as if no one cares about the BS and precedents going on. And on the other side of the coin, the light sentences where far worse is deserved. They let out sex offenders repeatedly and even murderers but send a couple of imperfect parents to prison who again were supposed to ensure this minor didn't do this but on the same side he was tried as an adult with an adult mind and decison.

Antipathy. Bubble. Who cares. Can't do anything about it right. The sheer blase attitude or lack of care to what is going on is the scariest thing. I don't know what is wrong with people. Yes we get enured to it all but even with lack of time and you name it, and maybe it is being a certain age and dealing with much, I still won't let such go where all I care about for instance is a couple of attorneys in a case or some such and have a meltdown over it. They are big boys or should be.

HARD STOP for me.

So tickled to see you. I think I'm repeating myself.

 

[kdg411]

Thank you! I have felt as if no one else sees this. They played a double standard here for one. Charging him as an adult but then saying he was a minor the parents should have been in control of and on the ball with. It is a very dangerous precedent as you say or slippery slope as I said AND there are a ton of people if retroactive (not) in many cases that should be very concerned.

They weren't parents of the year and they were far from the best but they sure aren't the worst we've ever seen either.

Child neglect I'd agree with which would be the common charge.

I also don't think until one raises a teen or more than one in this world nowadays can have a good understanding right?

I do think there were signs missed here but not by just the parents, the school big time as well.

I feel as if no one cares about the BS and precedents going on. And on the other side of the coin, the light sentences where far worse is deserved. They let out sex offenders repeatedly and even murderers but send a couple of imperfect parents to prison who again were supposed to ensure this minor didn't do this but on the same side he was tried as an adult with an adult mind and decison.

Antipathy. Bubble. Who cares. Can't do anything about it right. The sheer blase attitude or lack of care to what is going on is the scariest thing. I don't know what is wrong with people. Yes we get enured to it all but even with lack of time and you name it, and maybe it is being a certain age and dealing with much, I still won't let such go where all I care about for instance is a couple of attorneys in a case or some such and have a meltdown over it. They are big boys or should be.

HARD STOP for me.

So tickled to see you. I think I'm repeating myself.

The prosecutor held a PC, here's the clip.



She stresses that this is the first step to end gun violence. It sounded too much like a political speech. IMOO

Ethan gave a statement at his sentencing hearing that stated no one knew what he was going to do that day and no one else should be blamed for his actions.

 

[Summer_Breeze]

Prosecution releases confidential agreements it brokered with two Oxford school employees

The former dean of students and a counselor agreed to talk with prosecutors about the mass shooting at Oxford High School under "proffer" agreements.

www.freep.com

Tresa Baldas
Detroit Free Press
March 21, 2024

The Oakland County Prosecutor’s Office on Wednesday released confidential agreements it brokered more than two years ago with two key school employees who were given assurances that their comments to investigators regarding the 2021 mass shooting at Oxford High School would not be used against them.

The employees were counselor Shawn Hopkins and former dean of students Nicholas Ejak, the two school officials who made a controversial decision on the morning of the shooting to let the teenage gunman stay in school despite receiving multiple alerts about his behavior in the 24 hours prior. They never searched his backpack, which contained the murder weapon, or insisted that his parents take him home, despite summoning them over a troubling drawing he had made of a gun, a human body bleeding, and the words, "The thoughts won't stop. Help me."

Hopkins and Ejak wound up testifying against both parents at their trials, which ended in convictions, though the defense did not learn until this week that the witnesses had received what's known in legal circles as "proffer agreements," which protect individuals who are meeting with investigators from having their words used against them.

The defense learned of those agreements after the Free Press disclosed them in an exclusive story that offered a closer look at how the prosecution built its historic case against the Crumbleys, and sought to explain why school officials had not been criminally charged despite the outcry from the victims' parents, who have long called for accountability by the school and its employees.

Prosecutor's Office stresses that no one got immunity​

On Friday, one day after the final Crumbley family member was convicted — James Crumbley, the shooter's father — the Oakland County Prosecutor's Office issued a statement saying no criminal charges would be filed against any school employees because there is no evidence to support doing so.

The evening before, standing with parents who repeated their calls for school accountability, Prosecutor Karen McDonald said, “We want to hold everyone accountable.

"I’ve made a commitment to these parents, and I'm going to keep it," she said. “I’m going to look at the facts and work with them to get the accountability they deserve.”

On Saturday, in another statement to the Free Press, the Prosecutor's Office maintained that McDonald "has said from the very beginning that she has reviewed all available evidence and has not seen any evidence that would support criminal charges for anyone at the school or district."

On Tuesday, the Prosecutor's Office reiterated those points in yet another statement, and elaborated about the proffer letters.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

More at link. ~Summer

 

[kdg411]

If I understand correctly, these two school individuals testified to 'cya'. Their inactions that day may have prevented the outcome. WOW!

 

[Summer_Breeze]

Parents of Oxford High School shooter sentenced to 10-15 years in historic case

The parents of the Oxford High School shooter were given the maximum sentence by Judge Cheryl Matthews after separate juries found them guilty of manslaughter.

www.detroitnews.com

Julia Cardi Kara Berg
The Detroit News
April 9, 2024

Pontiac — The parents of the Oxford High School shooter were sentenced 10 to 15 years in prison on Tuesday, closing historic criminal proceedings that marked the first time a father and mother of a mass school shooter were charged and convicted of manslaughter in connection to their child's crime.

James and Jennifer Crumbley, who showed little emotion as the sentence was read, were given the maximum by Oakland County Circuit Judge Cheryl Matthews for their gross negligence in the 2021 shooting at Oxford High School carried out by their son, Ethan. The sentence was in line with what prosecutors had sought.

 

[GrandmaBear]

I still don't know what I think of this or that I agree. In most things as all know I have strong opinions but I'm quite torn in this. Just the fact they charge and treat the son as an adult but then say the parents were responsible as he was a minor is a complete contradiction and having it both ways. I also see a lot of politics in MI when it comes to justice and certainly this case. Politics should never affect justice. Then there were the stunts as if the parents were about to flee and ensured it all be used for camera and so on.

But at it's base this is a very slippery slope imo. And precedent.

But don't take me wrong in no way am I in support of these parents either or thinking them stellar but we see much of that, tons of it.

This was a school shooting and I'll say this, I don't see in the prosecution of the parents that one bit of it has to do with concern for the lost students, it again has to do with politics and careers.

And then of course there's the school who will likely like CPS workers in Valva go without consequence. No slippery slope ever starts for CPS or government officials or school ones of being prosecuted criminally. Funny how that goes...

 

[Guess Who]

If I understand correctly, these two school individuals testified to 'cya'. Their inactions that day may have prevented the outcome. WOW!

To me, I don't see how they can be responsible for his actions BUT IMO they are responsible for buying a gun and telling the underage kid it was for him. That seems like it would be charged more like the guys involved with the parade shooting and they were charged with a kind of gun trafficking by buying guns for people that could not legally buy them. That seems to be exactly what they did. To me, he is the only one responsible for taking that gun, that he thought was his, to the school and using it.

 

[Guess Who]

I still don't know what I think of this or that I agree. In most things as all know I have strong opinions but I'm quite torn in this. Just the fact they charge and treat the son as an adult but then say the parents were responsible as he was a minor is a complete contradiction and having it both ways. I also see a lot of politics in MI when it comes to justice and certainly this case. Politics should never affect justice. Then there were the stunts as if the parents were about to flee and ensured it all be used for camera and so on.

But at it's base this is a very slippery slope imo. And precedent.

But don't take me wrong in no way am I in support of these parents either or thinking them stellar but we see much of that, tons of it.

This was a school shooting and I'll say this, I don't see in the prosecution of the parents that one bit of it has to do with concern for the lost students, it again has to do with politics and careers.

And then of course there's the school who will likely like CPS workers in Valva go without consequence. No slippery slope ever starts for CPS or government officials or school ones of being prosecuted criminally. Funny how that goes...

It is indeed a slippery slope. BUT they did provide a weapon to their child and did not secure it. They bought it for him. I do believe they "could" be charged with gun trafficking since it was basically a straw purchase. That is a bit of a slippery slope to though. IMO. A kid could easily have a story that the parents bought it for the kid when they did not, just to get a parent in trouble and themselves out of more trouble.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

It is indeed a slippery slope. BUT they did provide a weapon to their child and did not secure it. They bought it for him. I do believe they "could" be charged with gun trafficking since it was basically a straw purchase. That is a bit of a slippery slope to though. IMO. A kid could easily have a story that the parents bought it for the kid when they did not, just to get a parent in trouble and themselves out of more trouble.

Buying the gun for a 15 year old is dicey, but if he didn't have such incredible mental problems that they ignored, it becomes criminal. That gun should have been locked up securely and the parents should be the only ones with keys.

Ignoring his pleas for help should get them in some sort of legal trouble, for that alone. After being shown the things he drew at school that day should have been the wake up call they desperately needed. They just didn't give a crap about him. They had their own lives to live. He was just getting in the way.

 

[Guess Who]

Buying the gun for a 15 year old is dicey, but if he didn't have such incredible mental problems that they ignored, it becomes criminal. That gun should have been locked up securely and the parents should be the only ones with keys.

Ignoring his pleas for help should get them in some sort of legal trouble, for that alone. After being shown the things he drew at school that day should have been the wake up call they desperately needed. They just didn't give a crap about him. They had their own lives to live. He was just getting in the way.

The gun should have 100% been locked up and his access should have been only allowed with a parent being the one to retrieve it and take it to the range and he doesn't get to touch it until they are there. That part is 100% on the parents here that they could have had 100% control of.

 

[Guess Who]

I have absolutely no problem with the parents taking him to the range and letting him learn in the proper setting.

 

[GrandmaBear]

To me, I don't see how they can be responsible for his actions BUT IMO they are responsible for buying a gun and telling the underage kid it was for him. That seems like it would be charged more like the guys involved with the parade shooting and they were charged with a kind of gun trafficking by buying guns for people that could not legally buy them. That seems to be exactly what they did. To me, he is the only one responsible for taking that gun, that he thought was his, to the school and using it.

I agree entirely that the parents are not responsible for his choice and action. I mean I get that we all could debate forever to the end of time on it being what kids are taught or how raised but then in every single case almost parents of children who commit any crime should be in prison.

It was an absolutely asinine decision to get him a gun and not lock and control it and access. I dont' care if your kids is a star scholar, well behaved, tons of friends and loved at school. You don't do that.

I guess though if I'm honest, I don't think a deer rifle was ever locked up when I was growing up and I guess my brothers, sisters or I could have taken it if we'd wanted. I''m sure not loaded. I don't even know. In the garage probably? It was a different time and not a one of us would have EVER. Very different time and age though. And I'd guess many area households were the same. This just occurred to me. However, no kid too one nor shot anyone. Very different times.

We never had like a gun safe. Nor did my ex. I knew he had a rifle or shotgun or two but honestly coudn't tell you, find it or use it had I needed it. And no ammo in it like my dad, pretty certain unless they got it out and went to use it.

Anyhow, it is all a slippery slope and I see nothing but politics for the most part in this case unfortunately. And I'm waiting for the school to be come down on and people charged as well if that's how it works.

I am no fan of the parents or their decisions, I do not want to be taken wrong but there's a whole lot of negligent, uncaring unattending, supervising parents in this world that should be in prison as well then.

And again he was charged as an adult, he even took responsibility and said his parents should not have to and they charge him AS an adult but then charge the parents for not supervising, etc. a minor child and providing him a gun.

I am so not okay with this case. And it has absolutely nothing to do with having any soft spot for the parents. Nada.

 

[GrandmaBear]

It is indeed a slippery slope. BUT they did provide a weapon to their child and did not secure it. They bought it for him. I do believe they "could" be charged with gun trafficking since it was basically a straw purchase. That is a bit of a slippery slope to though. IMO. A kid could easily have a story that the parents bought it for the kid when they did not, just to get a parent in trouble and themselves out of more trouble.

No argument here. That really isn't what I disagree with or have any beef with. I absolutely agree I don't care if you kid is the best behaved most popular well rounded kid, you do not buy a gun for a minor and give them unfettered access. THAT I do not disagree with. WRONG choice I don't care the kids or parents.

There are just so many things here and different problems. And as you say a kid could reverse the situation with a story as well. And heck I come from a state no kidding when I was in high school, the boys had their deer rifles in the vehicle and even in sight in the window for hunting after school. And so I guess that would have been high school age and minors... No one though EVER hurt a person with them.

This kid clearly has things going on and was struggling. Missing that or not realizing is not ideal either but anyone who has not raised kids can totally understand as I'd dare say we can you dont' know until after what it is going to entail especially through teen age years and all are different. This was their only wasn't it? Or the first this age? I didn't follow this entire case every day there was a post but I know it pretty well. I watched a fair part of her trial actually not long ago.

Anyhow I guess my folks and our area did it with deer rifles and such but again a different day and age. Would anyone do the same today, I sure wouldn't and don't think most would. Never heard of such a thing as a school mass shooting back then either. NEVER.

I don't think almost any parent means wrong. I am NOT including cases with parents who abuse, torture, neglect, malnourish, don't feed their children or murder them. Some certainly are better equipped, have more stable lives or partners and all of that but whatever. Like I said this goes and can go in so many directions and issues. And then when you have a troubled child, you can not know what is wrong or thing it may be a phase or bad time that will pass and so on.

I don't even know what I'm saying I didn't watch his but I did watch hers. Or a fair amount. And I most definitely probably more than the parents see all the politics here and ramifications and precedents with this. That's the kicker. This is not about imo concern for the victims, concern over what he did or the parents did or did not do, it is about politics. There, I think I've found my real problem which I knew but did not know.

Even then though, I am not sure I agree with the charges or length of sentence and again it is a complete contradiction. He IS a minor or he IS NOT. And they had it both ways and that's just not right.

I also agree with you that even though a minor, HE is responsible for his choices and acts. They may not be adult ones but he is old enough to know clearly murder isn't something condoned or you won't be seriously charged for. Well one would think anyhow. This country lately and letting some out, etc. not sure that can be said solidly any longer but you know what I mean. Murder is a huge crime and sin. I don't care if his parents didn't teach that by teenaged kids know this.

There's no happy ending in any of this for anyone. Not that there should be. Doing this on top of that he is where he should be AND charged and sentenced as an adult I just don't agree with. And I am WAITING for the school to be taken down and people prosecuted. And I guarantee that will not happen.

Did you read or follow Thomas VAlva at all with the bs about NY and the CPS workers/agency?

 

[GrandmaBear]

Buying the gun for a 15 year old is dicey, but if he didn't have such incredible mental problems that they ignored, it becomes criminal. That gun should have been locked up securely and the parents should be the only ones with keys.

Ignoring his pleas for help should get them in some sort of legal trouble, for that alone. After being shown the things he drew at school that day should have been the wake up call they desperately needed. They just didn't give a crap about him. They had their own lives to live. He was just getting in the way.

I think you mean since he DID have such mental problems but I get it. I agree that choice and not locking it up or always giving permission or knowing when he had it is wrong in this day and age for sure with what goes on now.

It's easy to judge. I sure do it. In many cases. Obviously lol and no doubt. And strongly many times.

Parents who find themselves with a child who has issues or seems to even all of a sudden have something going on is not something until having been through it most can judge imo. I'm not saying this was the case here or that they fit that or weren't negligent, uncaring, etc. He did though commit this act. He could have easily found keys if locked, taken a butcher knife or anything else. Of my two daughters, the one who lhad less struggles I and my ex went on a trip and his truck was parked in my driveway. I had no reason to think or worry but I also was no dumb parent, and we hid his keys. She was not home. She was I believe 17 or 18. She had a job and school and I had all covered, checked on, after work to grandma's, etc. And seriously lol she was a good kid. AND she had her own car and keys.

We got home after I think it was a couple day trip, can't recall or an overnight and sure enough the truck was not parked in the same spot. I disbelieved my ex at first or just coudln't believe she really found the keys and would have done such, she did not NEED the vehicle.. And I am NOT one of those parents who EVER was the type that my kid would never. Any kid could, would and most have lol. IN our youth, etc. I am not talking murder, just other things of course. I mean I was not in flat out denial, I did what I would always do and put her to it and she fessed up immediately.

Emu I hid those keys well. There is no way she would know we even left them home. This was my home, he had his own but was probably living with me or close to it at the time after we'd dated some time. Can't recall.

She did not need the vehicle but it was a nicer vehicle, failry new big truck a year or two old at most and I don't know, her car was older and safe and I don't know I guess it was a thing she wanted to drive, experience, be seen in, I have no idea. Maybe she hauled something for someone lol, I doubt it but who knows. I will HAVE to ask her next time I talk to her lol.

My long-winded point is, kids know and even if you lock those guns up, it doesn't ensure anything. Now I GET that had they done so, they likely couldn't be charged and convicted as easily. So yes, I get that. Like with me, I had hidden his keys if she had had an accident or did property damage or some such we had not HANDED her the keys.

There are just SO many things here. I don't even think I finished one point above in this post that I meant to. Certainly they did not commit these acts, he did. And though a minor that can't make the best adult decisions (some adults can't), he was charged as an adult and that too is just having it both ways when then charging the parents for their lack with a minor child. And it is political as political gets is the real sh*t behind it all. And THAT can't be allowed but will never be stopped. It is where things have gone and it is far gone.

 

[kdg411]

My issue (concern) is with how the law was not expounded upon. Should the parents have known on that day this event was going to occur?

The school advised the parents to seek mental health treatment however did not require the shooter to be immediately removed from school that day.

There was no evidence provided in either trial that the parents knew of or even read the journal. I'm not clear on how this evidence was admitted since the defense attorneys could not cross examine the writer. IMO it was heresay.

I look forward to the appeal in hopes the involuntary manslaughter charge is more thoroughly explained.

 

[GrandmaBear]

My issue (concern) is with how the law was not expounded upon. Should the parents have known on that day this event was going to occur?

The school advised the parents to seek mental health treatment however did not require the shooter to be immediately removed from school that day.

There was no evidence provided in either trial that the parents knew of or even read the journal. I'm not clear on how this evidence was admitted since the defense attorneys could not cross examine the writer. IMO it was heresay.

I look forward to the appeal in hopes the involuntary manslaughter charge is more thoroughly explained.

These are some very great points. I watched some of mom's trial but can't say I watched all and I dind't watch his at all. Yes that SCHOOL has to answer as well but such entities or their employees ever seem to face what they should.

I did not know about the journal or no evidence they read it. I also didn't know anyone thought they did or assumed so and why would one? I can tell you flat out my mom and dad never would have and I never would have with my kids either as right or wrong, all are taught such a thing is for your own thoughts and privacy, used to be a "diary" and to work out your own things in life.

Should they have known is other great point here and all the problems and yes, where is the expounded law?

I would also hope the appeal process does what it is meant to do although I tend to be cynical and have little faith these days that all isn't political and that would include the higher courts. It just will depend on whether all on the court are above politics and bias and do the job they should be doing. I don't think just this case is a slippery slope I think our enitire sysem is on a downhill slide.

In the meantime, let's SEE the school really face what should go on here. They aren't any better imo if the parents got it, and deserve people charged and to go down. Criminally.

Just like CPS/DCF and so on, this immunity sh*t with what is going on nope.

MI wanted to go here or some did, why is it It never goes all the way? If it is truly about justice and who did what, did not do what, or didn't act when they saw or knew things?