AHMAUD ARBERY: Georgia vs Greg & Travis McMichael & William Bryan for murder *GUILTY*

Mother seeks justice after son shot while jogging in Brunswick, pair involved in killing not arrested

It’s been over two months since a young black man jogging in Brunswick, Ga., was gunned down by two white men...

www.jacksonville.com

Mother seeks justice after son shot while jogging in Brunswick, pair involved in killing not arrested

It’s been over two months since a young black man jogging in Brunswick, Ga., was gunned down by two white men who said they thought he was a possible burglar.

Ahmaud Arbery’s mother wants to know where is the justice.

“I just think about how they could allow these two men to kill my son and not be arrested, that’s what I can’t understand,” Wanda Cooper told news partner First Coast News.

A police report states about 1 p.m. Sunday, Feb. 23, Glynn County officers responded to Satilla and Holmes drives where shots were fired. They found Arbery, 25, dead on the scene.

Gregory McMichael, who worked several years for the Brunswick Police Department before serving as an investigator in the Brunswick District Attorney’s Office, told police there were several break-ins in the neighborhood. He said he saw Arbery running down Satilla Drive and asked his son Travis McMichael to help him confront him.

McMichael and his son got a shotgun and handgun because they “didn’t know if Arbery was armed or not.”

The father and son got into their truck and drove down Satilla toward Burford Drive. Gregory McMichael stated when they arrived at Holmes Drive, they saw Arbery running down Burford, according to the report.

Gregory McMichael told police they attempted to cut off Arbery and shouted “stop, stop, we want to talk to you.”

McMichael pulled up next to Arbery, and Travis McMichael got out of the truck with the shotgun. According to statements, that’s when the father said Arbery attacked his son and the two men started fighting over the shotgun. Travis McMichael fired a shot and then a second shot.

After video appears to show black jogger gunned down by 2 white men in coastal Georgia, family demands arrests

The fatal shooting of a black man — apparently recorded on video in February and posted online Tuesday by a local radio station host — will go to a grand jury in coastal Georg…

ktla.com

After video appears to show black jogger gunned down by 2 white men in coastal Georgia, family demands arrests

The fatal shooting of a black man — apparently recorded on video in February and posted online Tuesday by a local radio station host — will go to a grand jury in coastal Georgia, according to a district attorney.

Elements of the disturbing video are consistent with a description of the shooting given to police by one of those involved in the incident.

Ahmaud Arbery, 25, was jogging in a neighborhood outside Brunswick on February 23 when a former police officer and his son chased him down, authorities said. According to a Glynn County Police report, Gregory McMichael later told officers that he thought Arbery looked like a person suspected in a series of recent break-ins in the area.

After they chased down Arbery, McMichael told police, Arbery and McMichael’s son Travis struggled over his son’s shotgun. McMichael said two shots were fired before Arbery fell to the street, the report said.


S. Lee Merritt, an attorney for the Arbery family, said in a statement that the two men involved in the chase “must be taken into custody pending their indictment.”

Gov. Brian Kemp said the Georgia Bureau of Investigation has offered resources to Durden for his investigation. “Georgians deserve answers,” Kemp tweeted.

Kemp also retweeted the GBI’s post that Durden “formally requested the GBI to investigate the death of Ahmaud Arbery.”

 

[GrandmaBear]

The reason he was charged is that if there had been a fireman or a policeman who went to check it out they could have been shot instead. You can't set booby traps like that. A woman I'd heard about Vaselined the steps leading upstairs so nobody could come up and harm her. I think she had a chairlift for herself. The problem with that is if her house caught on fire or called 911 the responders could be hurt trying to save her.

Yes I get that, I was just pointing out that someone even protecting their own property from trespass or theft can be charged. And I think in some ways we are talking about the same things, no case is the same as the next and there are "gray" areas and perhaps mitigating circumstances. I think she has every right to vaseline it but I do get your point and in that same vein, things need to be clarified in some cases and in law? Most think they have a right to defend their property, their life, their family and their lives and I hope we do, however....?

 

[Howell]

Nope, I debated saying that, and it is not my normal way. However, they seemed to judge and kill based on at most a simple trespass so I went there.... Not my proudest remark but if the pot wants to call the kettle black...

I truly was not going to say it nor post it but I do doubt they would have chased a neighborhood young man/friend nor shot him in the same way...

And it is not clear cut.

I will own my remark, I did say it. And really thought about saying it... And I am not anti hunting anti beer, etc... They just seem like they feel they had every right and even up to the moment of death to do as they did...

I am sorry but this looked like a posse almost... Bullies. However, I do like to discuss and on some other cases, I may surprise you that my opinion might be different than here.

Fair enough. I've tried to place myself in the shoes of both of these parties. I can understand if there's an ongoing problem in the neighborhood with people trespassing/stealing from a property, you catch one in the act, you don't want him to get away. That's the situation the McMichaels were in. Giving them the benefit of the doubt, they were being good citizens, trailing the suspect and trying to ask him what he was doing. I agree that brandishing the shotgun was not a smart thing to do. At the same time, if I'm just an innocent jogger confronted by a couple of guys on my route, what would I do? I'd probably say "Why are you following me? What do you want"? If I was in fear, I would dial 911 and/or run away. The last thing I would do is charge the guy with the shotgun.

The other perspective, totally unsupported by any known facts, is that these were a couple of rednecks eager to shoot this guy just because he was black. That seems to be the narrative being pushed by the media. "Unarmed jogger" carries an implication of innocence. They could just as easily refer to him as a "fleeing convicted felon", which would be more accurate. How did they choose between the two? Again, the media is deliberately giving a false narrative.

 

[KareBear]

I feel no sympathy for these two men, I believe they are just what they appear to be and I wasn't going to say it but a couple of redneck, power hungry, full of a fake superiority complex, beer swilling, beer bellied, hunting, brain cell lacking,racist idiots. They are probably the type that thinks they are God's gift to women as well (huh?).

I think you nailed it!

 

[KareBear]

Fair enough. I've tried to place myself in the shoes of both of these parties. I can understand if there's an ongoing problem in the neighborhood with people trespassing/stealing from a property, you catch one in the act, you don't want him to get away. That's the situation the McMichaels were in. Giving them the benefit of the doubt, they were being good citizens, trailing the suspect and trying to ask him what he was doing. I agree that brandishing the shotgun was not a smart thing to do. At the same time, if I'm just an innocent jogger confronted by a couple of guys on my route, what would I do? I'd probably say "Why are you following me? What do you want"? If I was in fear, I would dial 911 and/or run away. The last thing I would do is charge the guy with the shotgun.

The other perspective, totally unsupported by any known facts, is that these were a couple of rednecks eager to shoot this guy just because he was black. That seems to be the narrative being pushed by the media. "Unarmed jogger" carries an implication of innocence. They could just as easily refer to him as a "fleeing convicted felon", which would be more accurate. How did they choose between the two? Again, the media is deliberately giving a false narrative.

I just think they should've minded their own darn business and worried about their own property. To deter criminals, get a surveillance/ alarm system. If that's to much to ask.. they clearly had enough man power to restrain this man until cops arrived. They knew they were going to instigate or antagonize that man.. that's why they had a cameraman following, imo.

 

[Howell]

I just think they should've minded their own darn business and worried about their own property. To deter criminals, get a surveillance/ alarm system. If that's to much to ask.. they clearly had enough man power to restrain this man until cops arrived. They knew they were going to instigate or antagonize that man.. that's why they had a cameraman following, imo.

I just can't agree with you on this. I don't know what kind of community you live in, but I don't think I want you as a neighbor. If I see someone suspicious trespassing on my neighbor's property, I'm not just going to mind my own business and worry solely of my own. Fortunately, I have good neighbors and none of them would do that either.

They didn't "clearly" have enough manpower to restrain him. You're viewing it from hindsight. He was a complete stranger and they didn't know whether he was armed or not. Moreover, they didn't have any right to restrain him.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Fair enough. I've tried to place myself in the shoes of both of these parties. I can understand if there's an ongoing problem in the neighborhood with people trespassing/stealing from a property, you catch one in the act, you don't want him to get away. That's the situation the McMichaels were in. Giving them the benefit of the doubt, they were being good citizens, trailing the suspect and trying to ask him what he was doing. I agree that brandishing the shotgun was not a smart thing to do. At the same time, if I'm just an innocent jogger confronted by a couple of guys on my route, what would I do? I'd probably say "Why are you following me? What do you want"? If I was in fear, I would dial 911 and/or run away. The last thing I would do is charge the guy with the shotgun.

The other perspective, totally unsupported by any known facts, is that these were a couple of rednecks eager to shoot this guy just because he was black. That seems to be the narrative being pushed by the media. "Unarmed jogger" carries an implication of innocence. They could just as easily refer to him as a "fleeing convicted felon", which would be more accurate. How did they choose between the two? Again, the media is deliberately giving a false narrative.

Believe me when I say, I am no media fan. They will fan the flames and are, no doubt. My opinion does not come from them but just what we know or I have seen thus far.

I don't know that I believe they were eager to shoot him/kill him, I tend to believe they are of a type that believes they had every right to do as they did although the former investigator/LE father should have known better, especially nowadays and with former cases and headlines. I do believe they were eager to confront him and bent on it.

With regard to what would I do? I truly do not know what I would do if I was this young man confronted by two to three people, at least two that were armed. As a female, I would be likely to tell myself not to stop, I can say that. I have always told my girls that if anyone ever tried to force them into a car and even had a weapon, to risk it and run because once they are in that car they are likely dead and their best chance of survival is to risk it, try to run, scream, etc. IF at all possible, and to fight back.

As far as putting myself in the men's shoes, I am pretty sure I would not have grabbed firearms and did this. I have known the "type" that probably would and how they think and perhaps that is where some of my judgment comes from.

Would I try to get a gun away? Again, I don't know. It would depend on what I thought or what went through my head. If I was pretty sure I was going to be dead one way or another or could not get away from this bunch without being shot, I very well may if I felt it was my only chance, especially with more than one of them armed and no weapon myself.

Despite all of that, I am not under some illusion this guy was the worst of the worst nor a choir boy (Arbery), which the media does tend to portray him as. I simply do not think what these men did was right and we can't just have vigilante justice either. I am no expert but I just don't think they had enough reason to go after him at all, much less with weapons. As for him having to stop or do as they said, etc., they are not LE stopping the guy and I believe most people would not believe they had to stop for civilians who are "after" him.

A question for you? Do you believe if this was three black men and a white man ended up dead that they black men would be in jail the same night? I do. I am not saying there was even that type of prejudice, but I do think this man and his son were likely done a favor since he worked in the very system that would have had to arrest him.

I also do not think this case is entirely clear cut either, but that is jmo.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Here is another question that someone may know the answer to? Is it legal in Georgia to ride around in a vehicle with a loaded shotgun? In my state, which is also pretty big on hunting, it is not, not even during hunting season...

 

[KareBear]

I just can't agree with you on this. I don't know what kind of community you live in, but I don't think I want you as a neighbor. If I see someone suspicious trespassing on my neighbor's property, I'm not just going to mind my own business and worry solely of my own. Fortunately, I have good neighbors and none of them would do that either.

They didn't "clearly" have enough manpower to restrain him. You're viewing it from hindsight. He was a complete stranger and they didn't know whether he was armed or not. Moreover, they didn't have any right to restrain him.

They didn't have a right to pull a shotgun on him and kill him either... I'd rather they had restrain him. What is a citizen arrest if one is not being restrained? Honest question (I'm still not fully knowledgeable of how this works).
It appears that that there were atleast 3 men (correct me if I'm wrong). IMO, 3:1 is good odds for restraining someone.
If they didn't want to restrain him, then what was their intention?? Their goal? What was the point of any of it? I would definitely want my neighbors to watch my back as I would theirs...I can't say I'd do nothing if my neighbors had someone looking to rob them. I would definitely call the police. I definitely would not not chase them down with my shotty.

 

[Guess Who]

Again, that is not accurate. It is illegal to trespass whether the owner later decides to prosecute or not. Just as it's illegal to shoplift, even if the store owner later decides not to prosecute, or even if he never finds out.

Whether they had sufficient cause to make a citizen's arrest is irrelevant. At no point did they try to forcibly detain him. They had every right to try and talk to him, and he had every right to ignore them, but HE ATTACKED THEM. Period.

yes, illegal, but they still will not prosecute without the owner filing charges.

They are using the excuse that they were going to put him under citizens arrest and that does not apply in this case and they knew better.


Can you make a citizen's arrest in Georgia?
Citizen's Arrests
As a private citizen, you have no authority to arrest anyone with a warrant. Without a warrant, you may arrest anyone who commits a mis-demeanor or a felony in your presence or with your immediate knowledge.

GeorgiaLegalAid.org | Free, easy to understand legal information and resources

Free, easy to understand legal information from Atlanta Legal Aid Society and Georgia Legal Services Program

www.georgialegalaid.org

 

[Guess Who]

They didn't have a right to pull a shotgun on him and kill him either... I'd rather they had restrain him. What is a citizen arrest if one is not being restrained? Honest question (I'm still not fully knowledgeable of how this works).
It appears that that there were atleast 3 men (correct me if I'm wrong). IMO, 3:1 is good odds for restraining someone.
If they didn't want to restrain him, then what was their intention?? Their goal? What was the point of any of it? I would definitely want my neighbors to watch my back as I would theirs...I can't say I'd do nothing if my neighbors had someone looking to rob them. I would definitely call the police. I definitely would not not chase them down with my shotty.

you do not bring out a loaded shotgun in an attempt to just talk to somebody, especially when there are many of you and you have no proof of any crime committed.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

yes, illegal, but they still will not prosecute without the owner filing charges.

They are using the excuse that they were going to put him under citizens arrest and that does not apply in this case and they knew better.


Can you make a citizen's arrest in Georgia?
Citizen's Arrests
As a private citizen, you have no authority to arrest anyone with a warrant. Without a warrant, you may arrest anyone who commits a mis-demeanor or a felony in your presence or with your immediate knowledge.

GeorgiaLegalAid.org | Free, easy to understand legal information and resources

Free, easy to understand legal information from Atlanta Legal Aid Society and Georgia Legal Services Program

www.georgialegalaid.org

Citizen's Arrests

As a private citizen, you have no authority to arrest anyone with a warrant. Without a warrant, you may arrest anyone who commits a mis-demeanor or a felony in your presence or with your immediate knowledge. A citizen's arrest occurs when a citizen prevents a suspect from leaving a scene. Citizen's arrest most often happens in cases like shoplifting, when the store's manager detains the suspected offender. However, as the following example shows, the manager or employee cannot make such an arrest in every case.

In Winn Dixie Stores Inc. v. Nichols, 205 Ga. App. 308, 422 S.E. 2d 209 (1992), a Winn Dixie customer complained to management that another customer stole her wallet. The court held that the limited rights of merchants to detain or arrest a person reasonably believed to have committed a shoplifting offense do not authorize a merchant to detain or arrest individuals accused by store patrons of committing crimes against other patrons. To make the arrest, an employee would have had to actually see the criminal act committed. Therefore, it was ruled that management had no authority to arrest the alleged criminal.The court suggested that the only person who could have made the citizen's arrest was the robbed customer herself.

When making a citizen's arrest, a person may not use more force than is reasonable to make the arrest. Deadly force is limited to self-defense or to instances in which such force is necessary to prevent certain felonies.

It must be stressed that the right of private citizens to make a citizen's arrest is limited. They cannot arrest people for violating local ordinances or regulations because these violations are not technically crimes as defined by state law.Therefore, as a private citizen, you would not have the authority to arrest a person who is creating a disturbance by making too much noise. In addition, a private person can only make a citizen's arrest for the purpose of bringing the suspect before a judicial officer

I didn't bold any of that. It's how it appears on the page.

 

[KareBear]

Citizen's Arrests


As a private citizen, you have no authority to arrest anyone with a warrant. Without a warrant, you may arrest anyone who commits a mis-demeanor or a felony in your presence or with your immediate knowledge. A citizen's arrest occurs when a citizen prevents a suspect from leaving a scene. Citizen's arrest most often happens in cases like shoplifting, when the store's manager detains the suspected offender. However, as the following example shows, the manager or employee cannot make such an arrest in every case.


In Winn Dixie Stores Inc. v. Nichols, 205 Ga. App. 308, 422 S.E. 2d 209 (1992), a Winn Dixie customer complained to management that another customer stole her wallet. The court held that the limited rights of merchants to detain or arrest a person reasonably believed to have committed a shoplifting offense do not authorize a merchant to detain or arrest individuals accused by store patrons of committing crimes against other patrons. To make the arrest, an employee would have had to actually see the criminal act committed. Therefore, it was ruled that management had no authority to arrest the alleged criminal.The court suggested that the only person who could have made the citizen's arrest was the robbed customer herself.


When making a citizen's arrest, a person may not use more force than is reasonable to make the arrest. Deadly force is limited to self-defense or to instances in which such force is necessary to prevent certain felonies.


It must be stressed that the right of private citizens to make a citizen's arrest is limited. They cannot arrest people for violating local ordinances or regulations because these violations are not technically crimes as defined by state law.Therefore, as a private citizen, you would not have the authority to arrest a person who is creating a disturbance by making too much noise. In addition, a private person can only make a citizen's arrest for the purpose of bringing the suspect before a judicial officer









I didn't bold any of that. It's how it appears on the page.

Thank you @Cousin Dupree !! That says it all folks.. !!

 

[Cousin Dupree]

Thank you @Cousin Dupree !! That says it all folks.. !!

 

[Howell]

A question for you? Do you believe if this was three black men and a white man ended up dead that they black men would be in jail the same night? I do. I am not saying there was even that type of prejudice, but I do think this man and his son were likely done a favor since he worked in the very system that would have had to arrest him.

I also do not think this case is entirely clear cut either, but that is jmo.

Hard to say. It's quite possible that McMichael was given every benefit of the doubt because of his connection to LE. I do know however that innocent unarmed white joggers are mugged, raped and murdered by black perpetrators every day, and the media don't report those stories. If all of the actors in this case had been black(or white), we would never have heard of it.

 

[Howell]

They didn't have a right to pull a shotgun on him and kill him either... I'd rather they had restrain him. What is a citizen arrest if one is not being restrained? Honest question (I'm still not fully knowledgeable of how this works).
It appears that that there were atleast 3 men (correct me if I'm wrong). IMO, 3:1 is good odds for restraining someone.
If they didn't want to restrain him, then what was their intention?? Their goal? What was the point of any of it? I would definitely want my neighbors to watch my back as I would theirs...I can't say I'd do nothing if my neighbors had someone looking to rob them. I would definitely call the police. I definitely would not not chase them down with my shotty.

As they told Arbery and explained to the police, they wanted to talk to him. Again, you can argue that it was foolish to brandish the shotgun, but it doesn't change the fact that Arbery ATTACKED THEM. And no, 3:1 odds mean nothing when one of the three is elderly, another is not even on the scene, and you don't know whether this person is armed or not.

 

[Howell]

yes, illegal, but they still will not prosecute without the owner filing charges.

They are using the excuse that they were going to put him under citizens arrest and that does not apply in this case and they knew better.


Can you make a citizen's arrest in Georgia?
Citizen's Arrests
As a private citizen, you have no authority to arrest anyone with a warrant. Without a warrant, you may arrest anyone who commits a mis-demeanor or a felony in your presence or with your immediate knowledge.

GeorgiaLegalAid.org | Free, easy to understand legal information and resources

Free, easy to understand legal information from Atlanta Legal Aid Society and Georgia Legal Services Program

www.georgialegalaid.org

Well, George Barnhill, the DA who investigated the killing is on record disagreeing with you. He felt they were in "hot pursuit" of a burglary suspect with "solid, first hand probable cause".

Ahmaud Arbery: Waycross District Attorney explains in letter why no one was arrested in 25-year-old’s shooting death

Action News Jax is getting a glimpse into why the Waycross district attorney in the case decided no one needed to be arrested.

www.actionnewsjax.com

So to say they "knew better" is not a fair statement.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Hard to say. It's quite possible that McMichael was given every benefit of the doubt because of his connection to LE. I do know however that innocent unarmed white joggers are mugged, raped and murdered by black perpetrators every day, and the media don't report those stories. If all of the actors in this case had been black(or white), we would never have heard of it.

One thing that I can agree with you on is the media. No argument there whatsoever.

 

[Guess Who]

Well, George Barnhill, the DA who investigated the killing is on record disagreeing with you. He felt they were in "hot pursuit" of a burglary suspect with "solid, first hand probable cause".

Ahmaud Arbery: Waycross District Attorney explains in letter why no one was arrested in 25-year-old’s shooting death

Action News Jax is getting a glimpse into why the Waycross district attorney in the case decided no one needed to be arrested.

www.actionnewsjax.com

So to say they "knew better" is not a fair statement.

again, they had no right to do so and they knew it.

from the article:
In the letter, he said he believed Gregory McMichael and his son, Travis McMichael, were trying to stop and hold Arbery until police officers arrived. He said, “It appears their intent was to stop and hold this criminal suspect until law enforcement arrived.”
This is an illegal act, itself. They did not catch him doing anything, which is the only way they could legally do this, per Georgia laws.

According to the police report, Gregory McMichael and Travis McMichael told police they believed Arbery was the person committing burglaries in their neighborhood, Satilla Shores. When they saw him running past their home on a Sunday afternoon, they grabbed their guns and went after him

Again, illegal in Georgia.

 

[GrandmaBear]

As they told Arbery and explained to the police, they wanted to talk to him. Again, you can argue that it was foolish to brandish the shotgun, but it doesn't change the fact that Arbery ATTACKED THEM. And no, 3:1 odds mean nothing when one of the three is elderly, another is not even on the scene, and you don't know whether this person is armed or not.

This too can be looked at in two different ways. I would not call the father elderly for one. And the third was able to record so he was present. They did allegedly like go down other streets to come around block him and intercept him. Brandishing the shotgun is big to me and at least two of them armed is to me as well. They had a vehicle and he was on foot. Even LE gets out of their vehicles to chase a suspect on foot and if they did as happened here they would be under major scrutiny as well, they have to explain to no end these days if they shoot to kill and the reasons for it. I am not saying whether that is right or wrong but it is what it is. As posted above, citizen's arrests have some very specific parameters and I also think it varies a bit by state. Again this former investigator should have known more than the average citizen. As just an average citizen I would never do what they did. I would follow a car that abducted a child and be on my cell phone with 911 throughout. I would do everything to keep them in sight. I would probably wreck my car to stop the car if I thought they were going to get away and risk my own life to save an abducted child. I would never react as these men did over entry into an open house under construction. Maybe the homeowner is caving to opinion and rage, hard to say, but he DOES not support what these men did and it was his place. There are opinions and there is law. Much of my opinion is opinion, the letter of the law I cannot cite as any expert but the culture nowadays is one in which these three should have realized exactly what this would look like and the risk they were taking. The fact he was a former investigator and in LE in his career and that he resisted required training in his job as well is going to hurt him in this case imo because again, he should have known better... You yourself state what the media does with these types of things which is exactly why it is really stupid to risk being put in this position, and again by someone formerly in an LE career. ETA: All just my opinion of course.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Well, George Barnhill, the DA who investigated the killing is on record disagreeing with you. He felt they were in "hot pursuit" of a burglary suspect with "solid, first hand probable cause".

Ahmaud Arbery: Waycross District Attorney explains in letter why no one was arrested in 25-year-old’s shooting death

Action News Jax is getting a glimpse into why the Waycross district attorney in the case decided no one needed to be arrested.

www.actionnewsjax.com

So to say they "knew better" is not a fair statement.

This DA also had to get off of the case, two had to do so wasn't it due to knowing him and/or having connections with him? And if there is solid, firsthand probable cause and he was a burglary suspect, I have not seen any evidence of that and they should share it and show it. It can also be noted that the Georgia Bureau of Investigation did not agree that these men should not have been arrested and stated there was clear probable cause to do so. I do, however, not have my opinion entirely formed as I believe more evidence or video will surface, as will facts. As it stands now, with what we know, I believe these men are where they belong. Jmo.