AHMAUD ARBERY: Georgia vs Greg & Travis McMichael & William Bryan for murder *GUILTY*

Mother seeks justice after son shot while jogging in Brunswick, pair involved in killing not arrested

It’s been over two months since a young black man jogging in Brunswick, Ga., was gunned down by two white men...

www.jacksonville.com

Mother seeks justice after son shot while jogging in Brunswick, pair involved in killing not arrested

It’s been over two months since a young black man jogging in Brunswick, Ga., was gunned down by two white men who said they thought he was a possible burglar.

Ahmaud Arbery’s mother wants to know where is the justice.

“I just think about how they could allow these two men to kill my son and not be arrested, that’s what I can’t understand,” Wanda Cooper told news partner First Coast News.

A police report states about 1 p.m. Sunday, Feb. 23, Glynn County officers responded to Satilla and Holmes drives where shots were fired. They found Arbery, 25, dead on the scene.

Gregory McMichael, who worked several years for the Brunswick Police Department before serving as an investigator in the Brunswick District Attorney’s Office, told police there were several break-ins in the neighborhood. He said he saw Arbery running down Satilla Drive and asked his son Travis McMichael to help him confront him.

McMichael and his son got a shotgun and handgun because they “didn’t know if Arbery was armed or not.”

The father and son got into their truck and drove down Satilla toward Burford Drive. Gregory McMichael stated when they arrived at Holmes Drive, they saw Arbery running down Burford, according to the report.

Gregory McMichael told police they attempted to cut off Arbery and shouted “stop, stop, we want to talk to you.”

McMichael pulled up next to Arbery, and Travis McMichael got out of the truck with the shotgun. According to statements, that’s when the father said Arbery attacked his son and the two men started fighting over the shotgun. Travis McMichael fired a shot and then a second shot.

After video appears to show black jogger gunned down by 2 white men in coastal Georgia, family demands arrests

The fatal shooting of a black man — apparently recorded on video in February and posted online Tuesday by a local radio station host — will go to a grand jury in coastal Georg…

ktla.com

After video appears to show black jogger gunned down by 2 white men in coastal Georgia, family demands arrests

The fatal shooting of a black man — apparently recorded on video in February and posted online Tuesday by a local radio station host — will go to a grand jury in coastal Georgia, according to a district attorney.

Elements of the disturbing video are consistent with a description of the shooting given to police by one of those involved in the incident.

Ahmaud Arbery, 25, was jogging in a neighborhood outside Brunswick on February 23 when a former police officer and his son chased him down, authorities said. According to a Glynn County Police report, Gregory McMichael later told officers that he thought Arbery looked like a person suspected in a series of recent break-ins in the area.

After they chased down Arbery, McMichael told police, Arbery and McMichael’s son Travis struggled over his son’s shotgun. McMichael said two shots were fired before Arbery fell to the street, the report said.


S. Lee Merritt, an attorney for the Arbery family, said in a statement that the two men involved in the chase “must be taken into custody pending their indictment.”

Gov. Brian Kemp said the Georgia Bureau of Investigation has offered resources to Durden for his investigation. “Georgians deserve answers,” Kemp tweeted.

Kemp also retweeted the GBI’s post that Durden “formally requested the GBI to investigate the death of Ahmaud Arbery.”

 

[KareBear]

Well, George Barnhill, the DA who investigated the killing is on record disagreeing with you. He felt they were in "hot pursuit" of a burglary suspect with "solid, first hand probable cause".

Ahmaud Arbery: Waycross District Attorney explains in letter why no one was arrested in 25-year-old’s shooting death

Action News Jax is getting a glimpse into why the Waycross district attorney in the case decided no one needed to be arrested.

www.actionnewsjax.com

So to say they "knew better" is not a fair statement.

"George Barnhill, the district attorney in Waycross, sent the letter to the Glynn County police chief sometime in April. Barnhill recused himself from the investigation shortly after sending the letter."

Guess he couldn't stand behind his statement.

Ahmaud Arbery: Waycross District Attorney explains in letter why no one was arrested in 25-year-old’s shooting death

Action News Jax is getting a glimpse into why the Waycross district attorney in the case decided no one needed to be arrested.

www.actionnewsjax.com

 

[Howell]

again, they had no right to do so and they knew it.

from the article:
In the letter, he said he believed Gregory McMichael and his son, Travis McMichael, were trying to stop and hold Arbery until police officers arrived. He said, “It appears their intent was to stop and hold this criminal suspect until law enforcement arrived.”
This is an illegal act, itself. They did not catch him doing anything, which is the only way they could legally do this, per Georgia laws.

According to the police report, Gregory McMichael and Travis McMichael told police they believed Arbery was the person committing burglaries in their neighborhood, Satilla Shores. When they saw him running past their home on a Sunday afternoon, they grabbed their guns and went after him

Again, illegal in Georgia.

I posted that link so you could read the letter, not the article. Read the letter.

 

[Guess Who]

I posted that link so you could read the letter, not the article. Read the letter.

I posted it so you would read the article, also. The letter really means nothing since he has recused himself.

 

[Howell]

I posted it so you would read the article, also. The letter really means nothing since he has recused himself.

I had already read the article. The letter outlines the relevant case law and how it was applied, by a very experienced DA and one of his Senior attorneys. That he has recused himself is meaningless as it relates to my point. What you're suggesting is that the McMichaels knew the law better than these two attorneys and deliberately ignored it. Again, I don't think that's a fair statement.

 

[GrandmaBear]

I had already read the article. The letter outlines the relevant case law and how it was applied, by a very experienced DA and one of his Senior attorneys. That he has recused himself is meaningless as it relates to my point. What you're suggesting is that the McMichaels knew the law better than these two attorneys and deliberately ignored it. Again, I don't think that's a fair statement.

I am not trying to jump in the middle of your conversation but do have one comment. The McMichaels seemed to know about a citizen's arrest because they apparently attempted to execute one so if they think they know the law, it would be wise to actually know it to execute it or take the chance especially with loaded weapons. The retired cop/LE father does not have the same authority he had as an officer/investigator and I would think he understands this. I think for me, I would hopefully if I was unsure of a law, try not to break one, I like my freedom. I won't even say they had intent or that I am sure first degree is the right charge because it is a pretty high bar to prove and the burden of proof is on the prosecution. However, even a drunk driver does not generally intend to kill someone but they create their own circumstances that cause such and it is against the law. I do think there are some legitimate questions here and more info that will come out both ways but I do not believe their actions were legal, but again am no expert. One question I had and still do is is it legal to drive around with a loaded shotgun and/or pistol/handgun or whatever the other one was? Did they jump in their vehicle with loaded weapons or will they claim they loaded them quickly when things got out of hand? The sister/daughter certainly helped nothing here taking and sharing pictures of a gunshot victim. Jmo.

 

[Howell]

It was plainly obvious that he had not burlarized the home under construction at that time as it was plainly obvious that he had nothing from that house in his possession at the time.

So it's plainly obvious whether on not someone wearing cargo shorts has stolen hand tools in his pockets? Of course not. Just because he wasn't carrying a drill press doesn't make it obvious he hadn't stolen anything. Apparently, he didn't actually steal anything that day, but there was no way to know that without stopping him.

I'm curious though what you think Arbery was doing in the house to begin with. Looking for water as the family attorney suggested? Just a carpentry enthusiast?

 

[Howell]

I am not trying to jump in the middle of your conversation but do have one comment. The McMichaels seemed to know about a citizen's arrest because they apparently attempted to execute one so if they think they know the law, it would be wise to actually know it to execute it or take the chance especially with loaded weapons. The retired cop/LE father does not have the same authority he had as an officer/investigator and I would think he understands this. I think for me, I would hopefully if I was unsure of a law, try not to break one, I like my freedom. I won't even say they had intent or that I am sure first degree is the right charge because it is a pretty high bar to prove and the burden of proof is on the prosecution. However, even a drunk driver does not generally intend to kill someone but they create their own circumstances that cause such and it is against the law. I do think there are some legitimate questions here and more info that will come out both ways but I do not believe their actions were legal, but again am no expert. One question I had and still do is is it legal to drive around with a loaded shotgun and/or pistol/handgun or whatever the other one was? Did they jump in their vehicle with loaded weapons or will they claim they loaded them quickly when things got out of hand? The sister/daughter certainly helped nothing here taking and sharing pictures of a gunshot victim. Jmo.

Please feel free to jump into our conversation. If you click the article I linked a few posts back you can read the letter from DA Barnhill where he explains the relevant law regarding their use of firearms.

 

[Guess Who]

So it's plainly obvious whether on not someone wearing cargo shorts has stolen hand tools in his pockets? Of course not. Just because he wasn't carrying a drill press doesn't make it obvious he hadn't stolen anything. Apparently, he didn't actually steal anything that day, but there was no way to know that without stopping him.

I'm curious though what you think Arbery was doing in the house to begin with. Looking for water as the family attorney suggested? Just a carpentry enthusiast?

stolen hand tools is not a felonious crime, especially if they fit on his person unnoticed. This is the line they are using that is in that very note you wanted me to read so bad. There was no felony stop here and they had no immediate knowledge of one happening then.

O.C.G.A. 17-4-60 (2010)
17-4-60. Grounds for arrest


A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.

People look in homes under constructions ALL THE TIME. Did they go in pursuit of every person that was caught on that tape? No, they did not.

Before Ahmaud Arbery's death, multiple people walked through construction site, report says

Surveillance footage released to CNN shows multiple people at a construction site where Georgia jogger Ahmaud Arbery stopped before being gunned down.

www.usatoday.com

 

[GrandmaBear]

Please feel free to jump into our conversation. If you click the article I linked a few posts back you can read the letter from DA Barnhill where he explains the relevant law regarding their use of firearms.

I will go check but I am pretty sure I read it last weekend or last week. It did not change the way I lean in this case but that is jmo. He does make a good case with explaining the law but I don't think it fits all of the circumstances here.

With regard to the shooting, I understand that after the first grazing shot that hit Arbery is when the gun struggle occurred. If that is true, these men have big problems. He apparently tried to go around the truck was shot and grazed and then tried to get the gun away and was shot twice more. If the gun had already hit him when trying to go by, you are going to fight or flee or as they say fight or flight. Now I will admit I watched on video a few times over without sound either part of this incident or all of it but it has been reported the way I just stated.

Jmo.

 

[Guess Who]

I am not trying to jump in the middle of your conversation but do have one comment. The McMichaels seemed to know about a citizen's arrest because they apparently attempted to execute one so if they think they know the law, it would be wise to actually know it to execute it or take the chance especially with loaded weapons. The retired cop/LE father does not have the same authority he had as an officer/investigator and I would think he understands this. I think for me, I would hopefully if I was unsure of a law, try not to break one, I like my freedom. I won't even say they had intent or that I am sure first degree is the right charge because it is a pretty high bar to prove and the burden of proof is on the prosecution. However, even a drunk driver does not generally intend to kill someone but they create their own circumstances that cause such and it is against the law. I do think there are some legitimate questions here and more info that will come out both ways but I do not believe their actions were legal, but again am no expert. One question I had and still do is is it legal to drive around with a loaded shotgun and/or pistol/handgun or whatever the other one was? Did they jump in their vehicle with loaded weapons or will they claim they loaded them quickly when things got out of hand? The sister/daughter certainly helped nothing here taking and sharing pictures of a gunshot victim. Jmo.

Open Carry in Georgia

Last updated November 18, 2019.
Georgia allows any person to openly carry a handgun if the person has a “weapons carry” license.1 Georgia also allows any person to openly carry a long gun.2 In fact, if a long gun is carried while it is loaded, it must be carried openly.3

Open Carry in Georgia

Research Georgia state laws on open carry, including what is regulated and what's not. Find related gun law details from Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence today.

lawcenter.giffords.org

 

[GrandmaBear]

Open Carry in Georgia

Last updated November 18, 2019.
Georgia allows any person to openly carry a handgun if the person has a “weapons carry” license.1 Georgia also allows any person to openly carry a long gun.2 In fact, if a long gun is carried while it is loaded, it must be carried openly.3

Open Carry in Georgia

Research Georgia state laws on open carry, including what is regulated and what's not. Find related gun law details from Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence today.

lawcenter.giffords.org

Thank you GuessWho! I just did a bit of googling on it myself or was starting to I should say. I don't want to take us down a gun law road because I am not one way about that subject either and it is a hot subject often that we probably don't need to go too far into, but I did wonder if they even had the right to be carrying loaded weapons and in a vehicle on top of it.

 

[Howell]

stolen hand tools is not a felonious crime, especially if they fit on his person unnoticed. This is the line they are using that is in that very note you wanted me to read so bad. There was no felony stop here and they had no immediate knowledge of one happening then.

O.C.G.A. 17-4-60 (2010)
17-4-60. Grounds for arrest


A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.

People look in homes under constructions ALL THE TIME. Did they go in pursuit of every person that was caught on that tape? No, they did not.

Before Ahmaud Arbery's death, multiple people walked through construction site, report says

Surveillance footage released to CNN shows multiple people at a construction site where Georgia jogger Ahmaud Arbery stopped before being gunned down.

www.usatoday.com

Again, that is not accurate. It doesn't matter whether they were hand tools or power tools. Burglary is a felony. In Georgia, "A person commits the offense of burglary in the second degree when, without authority and with the intent to commit a felony or theft therein, he or she enters or remains within an occupied, unoccupied, or vacant building, structure, vehicle, railroad car, watercraft, or aircraft."

That's an assumption. We don't know all of the information considered by the DA in making his decision. He stated there was "solid first hand probable cause". Arbery fleeing certainly indicates consciousness of guilt. So ask yourself, of all these people you claim look into homes under construction all the time, how many of them take off running when they're seen? How many enter such homes at night with a flashlight?

 

[Guess Who]

Again, that is not accurate. It doesn't matter whether they were hand tools or power tools. Burglary is a felony. In Georgia, "A person commits the offense of burglary in the second degree when, without authority and with the intent to commit a felony or theft therein, he or she enters or remains within an occupied, unoccupied, or vacant building, structure, vehicle, railroad car, watercraft, or aircraft."

That's an assumption. We don't know all of the information considered by the DA in making his decision. He stated there was "solid first hand probable cause". Arbery fleeing certainly indicates consciousness of guilt. So ask yourself, of all these people you claim look into homes under construction all the time, how many of them take off running when they're seen? How many enter such homes at night with a flashlight?

And it clearly states that it has to be with an attempt to commit a felony or theft.

Again, did they go run down all of those other people with a loaded shotgun?

 

[Guess Who]

Construction crews do not leave hand tools (or any tools for.that matter) overnight, especially when its at a phase that it can't be secured. Thatis asking for something to happen and can get really expensive really fast. There is nothing at that stage to pocket on a site.

 

[GrandmaBear]

‘It just startled me.’ Travis McMichael dialed 911 days before shooting

NEW: Travis McMichael's legal team plans news conference

www.ajc.com

I would like to know how this 911 call turned out? This was days before the shooting. I hear no racist remarks in it and it sounds as if the man (whether it was Arbery or not) was in the house yet with a flash light when cops should have arrived. So on this night they call the cops and wait for LE but days later they give chase? I am sharing it with no opinion offered of mine--but for anyone who has not heard it and the article as well. I had heard a 911 call prior to this but not this one in its entirety.

 

[daisy7]

Did trespassing videos exchanged by neighbors set stage for Ahmaud Arbery’s killing?

Videos of a person inside a home under construction in Satilla Shores were circulated on Next Door in weeks before Ahmaud Arbery was shot and killed.

www.news4jax.com

 

[Howell]

And it clearly states that it has to be with an attempt to commit a felony or theft.

Again, did they go run down all of those other people with a loaded shotgun?

You "clearly" need to read it again. It does not say "attempt". The question is, did they have reasonable and probable suspicion to believe a felony had been committed? Did they have a reasonable suspicion to believe Arbery was in the house with the intent to steal? Well, he was recognized as the same suspect seen going through the same house with a flashlight on a previous night. He also fled the scene when they tried to speak with him. Honestly, what would you reasonably infer from that? He was just a "jogger"?

 

[GrandmaBear]

Did trespassing videos exchanged by neighbors set stage for Ahmaud Arbery’s killing?

Videos of a person inside a home under construction in Satilla Shores were circulated on Next Door in weeks before Ahmaud Arbery was shot and killed.

www.news4jax.com

Thank you for this. There is quite a bit of info and detail here that I had not heard prior. A lot of food for thought.

 

[GrandmaBear]

You "clearly" need to read it again. It does not say "attempt". The question is, did they have reasonable and probable suspicion to believe a felony had been committed? Did they have a reasonable suspicion to believe Arbery was in the house with the intent to steal? Well, he was recognized as the same suspect seen going through the same house with a flashlight on a previous night. He also fled the scene when they tried to speak with him. Honestly, what would you reasonably infer from that? He was just a "jogger"?

The info that Daisy just posted is an interesting read. The owner called LE more than once when the property was "trespassed" but it sounds as if he never saw him nor anyone else steal anything on video...?

 

[Guess Who]

You "clearly" need to read it again. It does not say "attempt". The question is, did they have reasonable and probable suspicion to believe a felony had been committed? Did they have a reasonable suspicion to believe Arbery was in the house with the intent to steal? Well, he was recognized as the same suspect seen going through the same house with a flashlight on a previous night. He also fled the scene when they tried to speak with him. Honestly, what would you reasonably infer from that? He was just a "jogger"?

that was my kindle changing the word intent to attempt. it was supposed to say intent.

A person commits the offense of burglary in the second degree when, without authority and with the intent to commit a felony or theft therein, he or she enters or remains within an occupied, unoccupied, or vacant building, structure, vehicle, railroad car, watercraft, or aircraft."

They had absolutely no proof of any intent he had of anything.
They had video of absolutely no theft happening at that time, either.