Ellen Rae Greenberg. Was it suicide or homicide?

In this podcast I discuss the true crime story of Ellen Rae Greenberg mysterious death.

Let me know what you think of her crime.

The Mysterious Death of Ellen Rae Greenburg: Was It Suicide or Homicide?

 

[GrandmaBear]

Worth watching. Interesting and outrageous what is going on in this case. Or NOT going on as well. Very interesting.

 

[GrandmaBear]

I don't think we have a thread on Ellen but I know her case has come up before, perhaps on this thread. It is live now. Please watch. Please share. For her parents' sake and for justice. Philly is corrupt and this should not be allowed. If you are on other platforms, share it. NO ONE believes this to be suicide and the parents have spent 1/2 a million trying to get justice. They are ON this show.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Did I say it is live now? Worth tuning in.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Still live. Please watch, a must watch. Please share. This is one that people need to YELL about and get made as public as possible. This is WORTH watching. Grizzly also covers this one.

 

[GrandmaBear]

This is one GFM I would donate to. Again well worth a watch. If anyone ever needed support in a case of such corruption, this is one. They ask all to contact the idiots in charge but not to sound like a nut, just be serious about what the heck is going on here and insist justice be done, etc. Paraphrasing. So worth a watch, it is so outrageous. They basically admit it was all wrong but then say there is nothing that can be done about it and their hands are tied. The officials. The ME could change it with the stroke of a pen, etc.

 

[Mel70]

I don't think we have a thread on Ellen but I know her case has come up before, perhaps on this thread. It is live now. Please watch. Please share. For her parents' sake and for justice. Philly is corrupt and this should not be allowed. If you are on other platforms, share it. NO ONE believes this to be suicide and the parents have spent 1/2 a million trying to get justice. They are ON this show.

Yes. I know the case. Suicide. Riiiight. Stabbed and shot. And stabbed in the back. O.K. yeah. How can they possibly do this?!!!

 

[GrandmaBear]

Yes. I know the case. Suicide. Riiiight. Stabbed and shot. And stabbed in the back. O.K. yeah. How can they possibly do this?!!!

if you have time, do watch what I shared. You should see what the answer was to the parents, etc. and all that is said about it.

So there is a thread. I knew it had been talked of on CW but didn't recall there was a thread. I came into the show after it started so not sure if it was the middle, mid beginning or late, etc. but it is well worth watching and listening to. If you want a case to write or email the people in the case, etc., to help, this is one, or to make a legitimate deserved GFM donation, this is one. Of course you and I don't have money but if I did, this would be one. I may well do at least a minor donation. If a thousand people or 10,000 people do, that's big right? These parents aren't asking for it which makes it more legit to me and what also makes it legit is they have spent 1/2 a mill of their own trying to get justice. This is so OUTRAGEOUS this case and yet they are getting away with this sh*t. If anyone wants to change anything, they need to stand up, this needs to become BIG.

 

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

Mother of woman whose death was ruled suicide says new info proves murder

EXCLUSIVE: Ellen Greenberg’s death by 20 stab wounds - including to the back of her neck - was ruled suicide. Her mother Sandra, who has spent 13 years fighting for justice and says she will ‘never give up’, says bombshell new testimony may finally prove her daughter was murdered

www.the-independent.com

‘It’s an obvious murder’: Mother of teacher whose death by 20 stab wounds was ruled suicide rages as bombshell new testimony may finally prove her case​

APRIL 2024

For 13 years, Ellen Greenberg’s parents have fought to prove she did not die by suicide, but that she was murdered – and now, new bombshell testimony could make their case.

In a shocking development that came earlier this week during a hearing for a civil lawsuit in the beloved Philadelphia teacher’s brutal 2011 death, the family’s attorney said the state’s former assistant district attorney is set to testify that her body was likely moved after she had been fatally stabbed at least 20 times.

“It’s an obvious murder,” Ellen’s mother, Sandra Greenberg told The Independent in reaction to Tuesday’s hearing in Philadelphia Common Pleas Court.

“You can’t make this up.”

On 26 January 2011, Ellen was found by her fiancé, Samuel Goldberg, dead in the kitchen of their Manayunk, Philadelphia apartment. She was slumped against the cabinets, her legs splayed out in front of her.

The 27-year-old elementary school teacher had at least 20 stab wounds, many to the back of her head and neck. A 10-inch knife was lodged in her chest.

Following an autopsy at the time, pathologist Dr. Marlon Osbourne of the Philadelphia Medical Examiner’s office ruled her death a homicide, citing “multiple stab wounds by an unknown person.”

But with little evidence to go on, the case stalled and months later, on 11 April, Dr. Osbourne amended her death certificate, changing the manner of death to suicide.

According to the Philadelphia Inquirer, the medical examiner was told that police were “leaning” toward suicide and looking at “mental issues” she might have had, despite her family’s pushback.

Records show Ellen was being treated for anxiety at the time, but the family’s experts hired over the years have found it’s unlikely her medications contributed to suicidal thoughts.

“She was brutally murdered, stabbed once, twice, 20 times,” Ms Greenberg said of their only child. “That’s rage. She did not do that to herself.”

Through the years, the Harrisburg, Pennsylvania couple have fought to change the ruling from suicide back to either homicide or undetermined manner of death, by enlisting in their team of experts and conducting an investigation that disputed the suicide finding, and say it was changed at the insistence of the police.

“It’s been 13 years and the city has been fighting us every step of the way,” Ms Greenberg told The Independent. “Ellen was a Philadelphia girl, she deserves better from her city.”

At the hearing on Tuesday, the Greenbergs’ attorney, Joseph Podraza, in an effort to push forward with a sworn deposition of former Assisstant District Attorney Guy D’Andrea, revealed that D’Andrea had a previously unknown conversation with the city’s then-medical examiner, Dr. Samuel Gulino and Gulino then determined that Ellen’s death was a homicide.

“D’Andrea had firsthand knowledge of the file and evidence,” Mr Podraza told the judge. “Dr. Gulino told D’Andrea, ‘this is a homicide.’”

Mr Gulino allegedly told Mr D’Andrea that Ellen’s body had been in a “supine position for a period of time,” he continued.

This means she was flat on her back and not slumped in a seated position against a kitchen cabinet as she was reportedly found, according to the hearing.

Mr Podraza said that the medical examiner told Mr D’Andrea that her body was likely moved and that they were able to tell by how the blood on Ellen’s face had dried up.

He also said there was no evidence that emergency responders were the ones who moved her body.


Mr D’Andrea is also set to argue that, according to the medical examiner, one of the stab wounds would have "immediately incapacitated" her, making self-infliction unlikely.

The court is allowing the Greenbergs’ attorneys to move forward with discovery and depositions in the case. Their deadline is 6 May.

Ms Greenberg said she doesn’t want to get her hopes up after 13 years of roadblocks and disappointment, but said she is pleased with the court’s decision to allow Mr D’Andrea to be deposed and believes that he can bring new evidence to the investigation.

 

[GrandmaBear]

happy to hear this. That woman never killed herself and I have never seen a family treated so blatantly outright unfairly and no one does a thing about it as it is people in power DOING IT. Her family has spent tons of money that never should have had to be spent and will continue to and not stop fighting and it's about time they get this back to what it was, a HOMICIDE.

 

[GrandmaBear]

it is about time her parents get some serious consideration and not the same old canned stuff and WALL. And I can only HOPE the higher court does that and also looks at what all was wrong in this case and questionable.

I haven't watched this, no time but he has also had her parents on at least twice I know of, and pretty sure I watched at least one.

Good news though.

I think parents on this week too scheduled, not sure. Seems to me that was going to be the case. Could be wrong.

 

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

Pa. DA promises first Ellen Greenberg case update in 2 years: Looking at ‘everything’

Nearly 14 years after Ellen Greenberg was found dead of 20 stab wounds, the controversial case surrounding her “suicide” is getting another look.

www.pennlive.com

Pa. DA promises first Ellen Greenberg case update in 2 years: Looking at ‘everything’​

Nearly 14 years after Ellen Greenberg was found dead of 20 stab wounds in her supposedly locked Philadelphia apartment, the controversial case surrounding her “suicide” is getting another look by a Pennsylvania district attorney.

A spokeswoman for the Chester County District Attorney’s office, which has had the Greenberg case since 2022, told PennLive the office’s detectives and attorneys have been actively working it and would have an update in the “coming weeks or months.”

“It’s all dependent on where our detectives are at in the investigation,” spokeswoman Dana Moore said of the timing of the Greenberg case update by the office led by DA Christopher de Barrena-Sarobe, who was sworn in January, 2024.

Moore said she could not be more specific about the timing of the office’s Greenberg case update.

It’s possible the DA’s office review could include new evidence.

A Pennsylvania woman who described herself as an amateur cold-case investigator who works as a librarian by day contacted PennLive about a “mystery man” who was caught on surveillance video in the lobby of the trendy Manayunk neighborhood apartment complex around the time of Ellen Greenberg’s death.

The woman, who didn’t want her name published for fear of reprisals, said she scrutinized hours of surveillance video from multiple cameras in the lobby of the Venice Loft apartments taken on the late afternoon and early evening of January 26, 2011.

That’s when 27-year-old Ellen died violently in her 6th-floor apartment. Her then-live-in fiancé, Sam Goldberg, said he was working out in the apartment building’s gym from about 4:45 to 5:30 p.m. When Goldberg returned, he said the apartment door was latched from the inside and Ellen would not answer his cell phone calls, texts, emails and his calls to her at the door. Goldberg said he eventually broke into the apartment, finding Ellen bloody and lifeless on the kitchen floor. He called 911 around 6:30 p.m.

Video from two lobby surveillance cameras covering a total of four hours for each camera has been posted online by a cold case podcaster who has been covering the Greenberg case.

The librarian told PennLive she took prolific notes on everything she saw in the total of eight-plus hours of video. Here’s what she said she noted, all of which she has turned over to the Chester County DA:

From approximately 4 p.m. to 6:10 p.m., a man is seen on the video “nervously bouncing around the downstairs of the building,” the woman wrote, adding:

“He finally gets up the backstairs, he’s up there the whole time Ellen’s fiancé, Sam Goldberg, is at the gym. He comes down with a now “all-business” demeanor and with injuries requiring a Kleenex to dab the blood. He goes to the bathroom downstairs and heads back up with something big stuffed in his pants. He goes up and then comes down with a big, wrapped-up bundle of something stuffed under his arm. Then he sees a swipe card Sam Goldberg dropped earlier and makes a beeline to pick it up. When he picks it up, he doesn’t look at it to see what it is -- but he looks to see if anyone saw him. Then he goes offscreen left, and one-minute later Sam Goldberg comes down to the lobby.”

The woman said she constructed a detailed timeline of the man’s actions in the lobby, along with freeze-frame images and links to the video posted online -- all of which she sent to the Chester County DA about two years ago after the county received the case due to a conflict of interest.

The woman told PennLive: “The Chester County DA has had this lead for two years. They are poised to give their first update to the press. I hope it will include the investigative steps to identify the man in the timeline and rule him in or out.”

Asked about this evidence, the DA’s spokeswoman wouldn’t comment on it directly but said the office was looking at “everything.”

“Our detectives and attorneys have been on this case,” Moore told PennLive. “I am not able to comment on anything members of the public have given the DA or the detectives to investigate. Every lead – everything -- our detectives have been very clear that they are taking it all very seriously.”

 

[GrandmaBear]

yeah, this is what independent and even armchair sleuths can do. Not me, no time but some are awesome. this they do not DARE ignore as they have all done and attempted by her parents.

this is no suicide and I can't believe they tried to push it through as one. repeatedly. through appeals, letters to higher ups, efforts and what millions by her parents?

well, could they not have done this? this finding needs to be public because if it isn't it will be swept under the rug again.

It is JUST MY OPINION. Saying it to no one.

And amateur cold case detective, a librarian by day, it has gotten out there but she doesn't want her name know for fear of reprisals I think says enough about all wrong in this case...If of course it is all true from her but I am assuming it is because lot and behold another look has been being taken...

Emu should get on this one. It's a case of no justice but in the opposite direction, and corruption, or so it seems to me. Often such is blamed on incompetence but this one has gone so far with her parents and others trying to get this looked AT for real and for so long...

Again jmo. I don't even know the opinions of others in this one.

 

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

Chester County DA: Investigators find insufficient evidence to prove Ellen Greenberg's 2011 death was a crime

Greenberg was found dead in her Philadelphia home in January 2011. Her death was initially ruled a homicide, but medical examiners changed the ruling to suicide.

www.fox43.com

Chester County DA: Investigators find insufficient evidence to prove Ellen Greenberg's 2011 death was a crime​

The Chester County District Attorney's Office on Friday announced that it is placing its investigation into the 2011 death of Ellen Greenberg in Philadelphia into an inactive status after determining there was insufficient evidence to prove beyond reasonable doubt that a crime was committed.


"After receiving the case, Chester County investigators worked to determine whether sufficient evidence existed to reopen the investigation," De Barrena-Sarobe said in a press release Friday. "Detectives first conducted a thorough review of the PPD and OAG investigations. They then pursued additional investigative steps, including but not limited to, conducting new interviews and consulting with an independent forensic expert.

"After this review, the investigative team determined that, based on the current state of the evidence, we cannot prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a crime was committed.

"This standard of proof—beyond a reasonable doubt—makes the criminal investigation different than other legal cases or issues that surround Ms. Greenberg’s death. Because we cannot meet our burden of proof with the information and evidence presently available, we placed this investigation in an inactive status."

Since there is no statute of limitations in Pennsylvania for criminal homicide cases, De Barrena-Sarobe said the case will remain open.

 

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

Ellen Greenberg's parents speak out amid obstacles in daughter's death investigation

Ellen Greenberg was found dead with 20 stab wounds in 2011. Her parents speak out about Chester County DA's decision for not moving forward with the case.

www.local21news.com

Ellen Greenberg's parents speak out amid obstacles in daughter's death investigation
Ellen Greenberg was a teacher who was found dead with 20 stab wounds in 2011. The Philadelphia medical examiner ruled it as a suicide, while her parents have insisted that their daughter couldn't have done that to herself.

Last Friday, the Chester County DA's office said that Greenberg's case was inactive because the office did not have enough evidence to bring any criminal charges.

The Greenberg family said that they are not convinced by Chester County's conclusion.

“My opinion is they didn't look very hard,” Ellen Greenberg's mother, Sandee Greenberg, commented.

The DA's Office stated that the detectives on the case have conducted new interviews and spoke with an independent expert during the investigation, but the Greenbergs still have looming questions.

"The third-party person... They asked a guy who has a degree in entomology. He was not a physician. He didn't do biology like that," said Josh Greenberg, the father of Ellen Greenberg.

"They're not basing their conclusions on facts," Sandee Greenberg said. "We provided them with the photogrammetry, which is a 3D illustration of the various knife wounds in different directions with different types of knife edge incisions," Sandee said regarding the information they provided to the investigators.

When asked if they know any details about the county's investigations, Sandee said, “They [the county DA] did not share the findings. They just shared the conclusion that this expert from Florida...felt that Ellen could have inflicted 20 stab wounds and they considered it not a homicide."

The Greenbergs shared that they know many people want the truth about their daughter's death, saying "175,000 people have gone on the internet to say we should open the case again."

“The fact that some wounds have been labeled postmortem was actually done by the medical examiner's office, not by people we hired," Josh Greenberg pointed out.

Even though the case is now inactive, Ellen Greenberg’s parents said they are hopeful.

“The conclusion of Chester County is in a lane all its own. Because we still believe Ellen was murdered brutally. We still have a civil action pending and we also have a date to go to the Pennsylvania State Supreme Court," Sandee Greenberg said.

Sandee Greenberg has kept a positive interpretation, believing that if anything shifts, the case can still be active again. "Chester County was kind enough toward their statement so that the door is left open."

The Greenbergs said their fight is not just for their daughter, but to call for an improvement to the justice system stating that people should be able to challenge medical examiner's ruling legally.

"The M.E. being unchallengeable, you don't want that. That's not the American way, is it?” Josh Greenberg said. "That's what we're fighting about. It's justice for Ellen, but it doesn't hurt if we get justice for all.”

 

[Guess Who]

Ellen Greenberg's parents speak out amid obstacles in daughter's death investigation

Ellen Greenberg was found dead with 20 stab wounds in 2011. Her parents speak out about Chester County DA's decision for not moving forward with the case.

www.local21news.com

Ellen Greenberg's parents speak out amid obstacles in daughter's death investigation
Ellen Greenberg was a teacher who was found dead with 20 stab wounds in 2011. The Philadelphia medical examiner ruled it as a suicide, while her parents have insisted that their daughter couldn't have done that to herself.

Last Friday, the Chester County DA's office said that Greenberg's case was inactive because the office did not have enough evidence to bring any criminal charges.

The Greenberg family said that they are not convinced by Chester County's conclusion.

“My opinion is they didn't look very hard,” Ellen Greenberg's mother, Sandee Greenberg, commented.

The DA's Office stated that the detectives on the case have conducted new interviews and spoke with an independent expert during the investigation, but the Greenbergs still have looming questions.

"The third-party person... They asked a guy who has a degree in entomology. He was not a physician. He didn't do biology like that," said Josh Greenberg, the father of Ellen Greenberg.

"They're not basing their conclusions on facts," Sandee Greenberg said. "We provided them with the photogrammetry, which is a 3D illustration of the various knife wounds in different directions with different types of knife edge incisions," Sandee said regarding the information they provided to the investigators.

When asked if they know any details about the county's investigations, Sandee said, “They [the county DA] did not share the findings. They just shared the conclusion that this expert from Florida...felt that Ellen could have inflicted 20 stab wounds and they considered it not a homicide."

The Greenbergs shared that they know many people want the truth about their daughter's death, saying "175,000 people have gone on the internet to say we should open the case again."

“The fact that some wounds have been labeled postmortem was actually done by the medical examiner's office, not by people we hired," Josh Greenberg pointed out.

Even though the case is now inactive, Ellen Greenberg’s parents said they are hopeful.

“The conclusion of Chester County is in a lane all its own. Because we still believe Ellen was murdered brutally. We still have a civil action pending and we also have a date to go to the Pennsylvania State Supreme Court," Sandee Greenberg said.

Sandee Greenberg has kept a positive interpretation, believing that if anything shifts, the case can still be active again. "Chester County was kind enough toward their statement so that the door is left open."

The Greenbergs said their fight is not just for their daughter, but to call for an improvement to the justice system stating that people should be able to challenge medical examiner's ruling legally.

"The M.E. being unchallengeable, you don't want that. That's not the American way, is it?” Josh Greenberg said. "That's what we're fighting about. It's justice for Ellen, but it doesn't hurt if we get justice for all.”

Sure... The victim kept stabbing herself after she died??? That sounds likely, doesn't it?

 

[GrandmaBear]

These parents have fought to NO END and this is absolute b.s. Spent TONS. No one to my knowledge in the public thinks this was a SUICIDE. That such can still go on is amazing. There are a couple of others I can name where despite the public outcry, etc. they just keep stiffing it. Shannon Gilbert. Rebecca Zahau.

If you rule these suicides, you PROVE it and show the evidence that says it was. Otherwise at best it should be undetermined. I've not seen such in any of these three, and others.

Surviving the Survior has the parents on and covers this one fairly often with some very good shows and points.

I'd also add the boy in the gym mat. That's another one. Now maybe they are right and maybe they are wrong in any of these cases but if you can't show beyond a fair doubt that's what happened and share the reasons and evidence why, then it should be undetermined.

JUST MY OPINION.