JONBENET RAMSEY: Found dead in Boulder, Colorado on Christmas Day 1996 - Age 6

GrandmaBear said:
I agree. I can't clear any family member.

When all of the sensationalism, botched investigation and more is stripped away in this case, to me it actually seems pretty clear it was someone in the house or more than one.

When I put this up I was not up to date or fresh on it. After that, I watched a pretty thorough video and it reminded me of some things. One of those things for instance was that they found two practice ransom notes in the house...

I can't help it, no perp stays in a home for time on end when others could discover him, much less a note that detailed and long. No perp leaves a ransom note when they know there is no hope of the ransom because they killed or intend to kill her in the home. These are simply a couple of things but there are so very many.

This case has so many things wrong it is not even funny. One can only wonder which people throughout skewed it intentionally and which were just inept and in some cases maybe it was egos.

When the FBI got there the day of, they went in assuming a kidnapping and set up at LE headquarters, not at the house. The MINUTE the FBI guy heard of the note, he knew it was not a kidnapping and his radar went up. He advised LE at the house to keep track of the Ramseys... And this was before she was found...

So very much wrong here... The DA had LE softpedal with the parents, no serious separation or questioning went on at all, etc.

Long after, the DA under pressure took the case to a Grand Jury who heard evidence for a FULL YEAR I think it was said. When concluded, he announced to the public no charges were coming against the Ramseys and never mentioned that the Grand Jury recommended indictment. In Colorado, the Grand Jury cannot talk of what they decided and he knew it. He let the public think the Grand Jury did not indict. It later came out that THEY DID and he decided not to charge...

Think about that once. You spend that time and money to convene the Grand Jury and submit this case for that length of time, knowing all along I guess you would not indict if it came back recommended...?

Much wrong. A lot wrong. Jmo and just a few things I am mentioning.
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I beg your pardon, there weren’t two practice notes; there was one ransom note that had been written on pages from a tablet in which a still-attached page appears to have been the start of the one ransom note.
 
Regina said:
I beg your pardon, there weren’t two practice notes; there was one ransom note that had been written on pages from a tablet in which a still-attached page appears to have been the start of the one ransom note.
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I’ve heard of the practice note before, too. Where did that come from? Do you know?
 
Regina said:
Sorry, are you referring to the page still in the tablet?
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I don’t know? I haven’t really delved into this case that much but I thought they found a note somewhere in Patsy’s handwriting that look like it was a practice note? I am thinking it might’ve been a rumor.
 
Kimster said:
I don’t know? I haven’t really delved into this case that much but I thought they found a note somewhere in Patsy’s handwriting that look like it was a practice note? I am thinking it might’ve been a rumor.
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I am thinking what is being referred to as the "practice note" is the same one that was the page still in the tablet.
 
Regina said:
I beg your pardon, there weren’t two practice notes; there was one ransom note that had been written on pages from a tablet in which a still-attached page appears to have been the start of the one ransom note.
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I'm sorry, it looks like I posted that a year ago so my memory isn't up to speed on it. I can only say in rereading my post that I was sharing info I felt true and that generally if I went and watched something to refresh me on the case, I would have normally picked a source that was trustworthy.

I don't want to pass on or change facts so if I am wrong, I don't mind being corrected and it should be corrected. So an attached page that looked like a start was called a practice note or so it sounds so I wonder where two came from that I apparently heard?

What do you use or what is your source for it being a start of another note only? I'm not doubting you, I just would like to be sure I get my facts straight. And you don't have to go look either, just wondering if you can help me get it clear and if you know offhand.

I think I have heard of practice notes more than once in this case. The case is so old and there has been so much on it through the years.
 
Kimster said:
I don’t know? I haven’t really delved into this case that much but I thought they found a note somewhere in Patsy’s handwriting that look like it was a practice note? I am thinking it might’ve been a rumor.
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(I’ve delved deep but it’s been a while.)
No, there’s just the one page still in the tablet that appears to be the start of a/the ransom note. As to whose handwriting it is, needless to say, that’d be a matter of opinion.
What’s interesting to me is that there’re 6 or 7 pages (depending on the source) unaccounted for from that tablet.
 
Regina said:
(I’ve delved deep but it’s been a while.)
No, there’s just the one page still in the tablet that appears to be the start of a/the ransom note. As to whose handwriting it is, needless to say, that’d be a matter of opinion.
What’s interesting to me is that there’re 6 or 7 pages (depending on the source) unaccounted for from that tablet.
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Now that you mention it, I recall the missing pages or mention of such. Did they forget a page and/or were those pages in order with the start of another note or in another place in the tablet all together if you know?

I too used to know this case inside and out but not so much any longer. I do remember bigger and key details, etc. I know for instance there is as you say a matter of opinion of whether Patsy wrote it or not and it depends on who you ask.

Not too long ago my memory I'd put up to anyone's in life but not these days. I don't know if it is age or stuffing way too many cases into my head. And this one has existed for years while others have come and gone.

I do stick to what I said in the older post in that I can't dismiss family or someone close and of which they are/were aware. I can't help but lean that way although I will admit I also at times have had great sympathy for the family, especially if it is not the case. In the Summer Wells case, I have sympathy for the parents too at times but in both cases I feel one or more in the family know something or more than we are told or they are saying or sharing.

And a few other cases as well.

One thing that really bothers me is a grand jury moved to indict long after Jon Benet died and the DA hid the fact they did and chose not to do so. The screw ups in the beginning were one thing I guess we are to put down to small town or unintentional crime scene securing, etc. but why did this happen how long after? How can a person not think there are coverups in this case? It's a tough one to not entertain that possibility...

All jmo.
 
GrandmaBear said:
I'm sorry, it looks like I posted that a year ago so my memory isn't up to speed on it. I can only say in rereading my post that I was sharing info I felt true and that generally if I went and watched something to refresh me on the case, I would have normally picked a source that was trustworthy.

I don't want to pass on or change facts so if I am wrong, I don't mind being corrected and it should be corrected. So an attached page that looked like a start was called a practice note or so it sounds so I wonder where two came from that I apparently heard?

What do you use or what is your source for it being a start of another note only? I'm not doubting you, I just would like to be sure I get my facts straight. And you don't have to go look either, just wondering if you can help me get it clear and if you know offhand.

I think I have heard of practice notes more than once in this case. The case is so old and there has been so much on it through the years.
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I’m so sorry, I’ll try to avoid quoting such an old post!
Like you, I try to find what I consider to be the best source! In this instance, I’d bet that this particular info is referenced in every book I can think of that’s been written about the case, but what varies is precisely what’s written, ie, whether it’s “Dear Mr. and Mrs. /“ or “Mr. and Mrs. /“... (btw, I’ve always wanted to see that page for myself!), and the info varies as to how many pages were (also) torn out but never found.
 
Regina said:
I’m so sorry, I’ll try to avoid quoting such an old post!
Like you, I try to find what I consider to be the best source! In this instance, I’d bet that this particular info is referenced in every book I can think of that’s been written about the case, but what varies is precisely what’s written, ie, whether it’s “Dear Mr. and Mrs. /“ or “Mr. and Mrs. /“... (btw, I’ve always wanted to see that page for myself!), and the info varies as to how many pages were (also) torn out but never found.
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No, please don't avoid it at all. I'm just saying I can't recall where or what I read, I should have linked it in the original post in hindsight. I'd so much rather see cases with activity and getting some notice, especially cold/old ones and have people read back and discuss them. Keeping any case active can only help in my opinion.

I also welcome anyone who is up on and fresh on facts or delved into it even more than most. I have never read a book I don't think nor maybe did I know about the Mr. Mrs. or Dear, etc. I do at some point in cases think LE should just release what they have or more of it. This case is old, frustrating, looks to never be solved so what can it hurt and it may help. I'd like to see that page myself as well! And other things or whatever they do have.

Maybe it was the times back then, the area, etc. but it just staggers me that this case has not been solved or wasn't quickly. This child was not even taken from her home, she was right there in their home. It's almost inconceivable to me this could happen and no one know, notice and then the investigation get totally flubbed. The first thing they do is search the home, every crevice, every room, the attic, etc. and clear it. At least these days. I know the excuses, the staffing, the mix ups, etc. although they are not fresh in my mind either but I know it was very criticized. I remember the pineapple and a lot of key facts.

I cannot think of nor come up with another case anything like this one. And honestly, all the oddities like the ransom note, where she was, how she was, etc. I only see as coverup to the extreme of an overactive imagination/thinking of what anyone would believe. A foreign legion or power? For me, the ransom note is the big red flag with where it was, what it was written on, that it was in the house, that someone likely took time to write it in their house, as well as the time it took to do as they did with and to Jon Benet. And that the note points in another direction. I take and try to clear all of the misdirection, media hype, sensationalism and everything else to come to what I think and the note stands out and is what gives me my opinion and of course the fact Jon Benet was in the home.

You may disagree, I don't know, and Lord knows this case has tons of people on all sides in what they think so I respect that and I am not decided but I lean heavily to someone in the family or at least family knowledge, although I waver on one or all, etc. or which one. However, I exclude nothing 100 percent.
 
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GrandmaBear said:
Now that you mention it, I recall the missing pages or mention of such. Did they forget a page and/or were those pages in order with the start of another note or in another place in the tablet all together if you know?

I too used to know this case inside and out but not so much any longer. I do remember bigger and key details, etc. I know for instance there is as you say a matter of opinion of whether Patsy wrote it or not and it depends on who you ask.

Not too long ago my memory I'd put up to anyone's in life but not these days. I don't know if it is age or stuffing way too many cases into my head. And this one has existed for years while others have come and gone.

I do stick to what I said in the older post in that I can't dismiss family or someone close and of which they are/were aware. I can't help but lean that way although I will admit I also at times have had great sympathy for the family, especially if it is not the case. In the Summer Wells case, I have sympathy for the parents too at times but in both cases I feel one or more in the family know something or more than we are told or they are saying or sharing.

And a few other cases as well.

One thing that really bothers me is a grand jury moved to indict long after Jon Benet died and the DA hid the fact they did and chose not to do so. The screw ups in the beginning were one thing I guess we are to put down to small town or unintentional crime scene securing, etc. but why did this happen how long after? How can a person not think there are coverups in this case? It's a tough one to not entertain that possibility...

All jmo.
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About the pages, for what ever reason, I’ve always had a nagging feeling that there’s something there that I just can’t put my finger on... it’s actually where I left off from researching the case. Anyway...
The way I understand it, all of the torn-out pages were consecutive.
 
Regina said:
About the pages, for what ever reason, I’ve always had a nagging feeling that there’s something there that I just can’t put my finger on... it’s actually where I left off from researching the case. Anyway...
The way I understand it, all of the torn-out pages were consecutive.
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Consecutive so maybe they didn't like the rest of the first attempt but kept the first page so they could rewrite it, meant to go back and tear it out and forgot? Or more simply just missed a page when tearing out the other...

I agree with you I think there is something about the note or the pages and the note etc. The note sticks with me as I said. It is what I come back to each and every single time over the years I refresh on this case or think about it again and see what I think or if anything new has come out. Much was made about the amount of the bonus I recall that as well. For it to be someone who knew, they still had to be in their house and I find that unlikely. That too points to family imo I"m sorry to say. To me, just about everything points that way when stripping away the extraneous stuff, there is simply too much to explain. Again, jmo though.
 
GrandmaBear said:
No, please don't avoid it at all. I'm just saying I can't recall where or what I read, I should have linked it in the original post in hindsight. I'd so much rather see cases with activity and getting some notice, especially cold/old ones and have people read back and discuss them. Keeping any case active can only help in my opinion.

I also welcome anyone who is up on and fresh on facts or delved into it even more than most. I have never read a book I don't think nor maybe did I know about the Mr. Mrs. or Dear, etc. I do at some point in cases think LE should just release what they have or more of it. This case is old, frustrating, looks to never be solved so what can it hurt and it may help. I'd like to see that page myself as well! And other things or whatever they do have.

Maybe it was the times back then, the area, etc. but it just staggers me that this case has not been solved or wasn't quickly. This child was not even taken from her home, she was right there in their home. It's almost inconceivable to me this could happen and no one know, notice and then the investigation get totally flubbed. The first thing they do is search the home, every crevice, every room, the attic, etc. and clear it. At least these days. I know the excuses, the staffing, the mix ups, etc. although they are not fresh in my mind either but I know it was very criticized. I remember the pineapple and a lot of key facts.

I cannot think of nor come up with another case anything like this one. And honestly, all the oddities like the ransom note, where she was, how she was, etc. I only see as coverup to the extreme of an overactive imagination/thinking of what anyone would believe. A foreign legion or power? For me, the ransom note is the big red flag with where it was, what it was written on, that it was in the house, that someone likely took time to write it in their house, as well as the time it took to do as they did with and to Jon Benet. And that the note points in another direction. I take and try to clear all of the misdirection, media hype, sensationalism and everything else to come to what I think and the note stands out and is what gives me my opinion and of course the fact Jon Benet was in the home.

You may disagree, I don't know, and Lord knows this case has tons of people on all sides in what they think so I respect that and I am not decided but I lean heavily to someone in the family or at least family knowledge, although I waver on one or all, etc. or which one. However, I exclude nothing 100 percent.
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I’ve come across plenty of cases where the victim was murdered with others present in the home yet unaware.
There was a cold case solved fairly recently in which the victim (if I recall correctly, late teen?) was raped and murdered as her family slept. The house was two-story, but from what I remember about it, my guess is that it was no more than 1200 sq ft.!
 
Regina said:
I’ve come across plenty of cases where the victim was murdered with others present in the home yet unaware.
There was a cold case solved fairly recently in which the victim (if I recall correctly, late teen?) was raped and murdered as her family slept. The house was two-story, but from what I remember about it, my guess is that it was no more than 1200 sq ft.!
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I agree and I don't mean circumstances need to match exactly but knowing of one where a ransom note was present written on a pad in the home? Or where allegedly the father never saw the child when looking in the basement or checked the room (which was it? I'm a bit fuzzy on that but they were not watched nor had LE with them watching every moment I know that much..., didn't he and a friend check the basement without LE?)

Yes, others have been found dead in a home with others present but not with these kind of oddities imo. I'm not trying to argue, just discuss and also clarifying what I meant. I enjoy discussion on cases.

And I will admit always never say never and every case is not alike and anything could happen once, even a stranger doing all of this (although I think unlikely) or have happened but when a case has too many things the family or a suspect or perp has to explain away, I just don't believe in that much coincidence and this case is full of it. And as always, it is just my opinion.

Not sure what case you mean with the teen but there are cases, I do agree on that where it happened right in the home or when others were present or sleeping or out of, no doubt. Nothing even remotely like this though imo. JonBenet wasn't only there, that darned ransom note again to go along with it and more just are too much for me to believe it was some unknown intruder. I'm sorry but it was her pad, she found the note, the ransom amount, she was the last with the kids wasn't she? Didn't he go to bed per their account? There is just soooo much again I can't discount it... Of course that doesn't mean she did it, it could all be covering or helping cover for one another or another member, etc.

Another thing that stands out to me is the female cop and a lot of what she said. I'd have to refresh but she had no help and could not keep the dad and everyone in sight, etc. at all times. Just sooooo much wrong here. And again the grand jury indictment... But no charge filed... And the indictment "hidden". This entire case I mean, there truly is not another that compares imo. Mishandling by LE or failure to secure, etc., etc., etc., etc. Just a LOT.

Just my opinion.
 
GrandmaBear said:
I agree and I don't mean circumstances need to match exactly but knowing of one where a ransom note was present written on a pad in the home? Or where allegedly the father never saw the child when looking in the basement or checked the room (which was it? I'm a bit fuzzy on that but they were not watched nor had LE with them watching every moment I know that much..., didn't he and a friend check the basement without LE?)

Yes, others have been found dead in a home with others present but not with these kind of oddities imo. I'm not trying to argue, just discuss and also clarifying what I meant. I enjoy discussion on cases.

And I will admit always never say never and every case is not alike and anything could happen once, even a stranger doing all of this (although I think unlikely) or have happened but when a case has too many things the family or a suspect or perp has to explain away, I just don't believe in that much coincidence and this case is full of it. And as always, it is just my opinion.

Not sure what case you mean with the teen but there are cases, I do agree on that where it happened right in the home or when others were present or sleeping or out of, no doubt. Nothing even remotely like this though imo. JonBenet wasn't only there, that darned ransom note again to go along with it and more just are too much for me to believe it was some unknown intruder. I'm sorry but it was her pad, she found the note, the ransom amount, she was the last with the kids wasn't she? Didn't he go to bed per their account? There is just soooo much again I can't discount it... Of course that doesn't mean she did it, it could all be covering or helping cover for one another or another member, etc.

Another thing that stands out to me is the female cop and a lot of what she said. I'd have to refresh but she had no help and could not keep the dad and everyone in sight, etc. at all times. Just sooooo much wrong here. And again the grand jury indictment... But no charge filed... And the indictment "hidden". This entire case I mean, there truly is not another that compares imo. Mishandling by LE or failure to secure, etc., etc., etc., etc. Just a LOT.

Just my opinion.
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Well, I just mentioned that case to point out that even in close quarters, no one was aware of what happened until the next day.
What you said about John not finding her body, that wasn’t John, that was Fleet White. He said he’d opened the door to that room that morning but couldn’t find the light switch. They later went down to the basement together, that’s when John found her body.
About the note, is it because it was written on paper from the pad that it’s concluded that it was written after the fact?
John carried JonBenet to bed and Patsy changed her into long johns. After John helped Burke with a toy, they headed off to bed. When John came into the bedroom, Patsy was in bed. John said he read a little before going to sleep.
About the indictment, I think if it was “hidden”, it was simply to avoid scrutiny.
 
Regina said:
Well, I just mentioned that case to point out that even in close quarters, no one was aware of what happened until the next day.
What you said about John not finding her body, that wasn’t John, that was Fleet White. He said he’d opened the door to that room that morning but couldn’t find the light switch. They later went down to the basement together, that’s when John found her body.
About the note, is it because it was written on paper from the pad that it’s concluded that it was written after the fact?
John carried JonBenet to bed and Patsy changed her into long johns. After John helped Burke with a toy, they headed off to bed. When John came into the bedroom, Patsy was in bed. John said he read a little before going to sleep.
About the indictment, I think if it was “hidden”, it was simply to avoid scrutiny.
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Right, it is amazing in close quarters in any case where a body is found in the house and people were there but I won't deny it has happened and does happen once in awhile.

I am fuzzy on some things but I thought there were questions about that room and whether it was locked earlier or something and that she was missed earlier by John or something or the room was like avoided or it was not looked into? I know he carried her/touched her. I am not going to say an upset parent might not react and do that but there we go again with messed up crime scene or evidence. I did remember the friend was with, Fleet I guess...

Blanket, clothing, etc. I know that has been hashed to no end and I don't recall what was speculation, rumor or fact.

The note bothers me in a number of ways. I don't know that it can be told when it was written but would an outside the family perp leave a note on the stairs and then get the child and take the child downstairs to do as was done when a family member could come across the note before he is out of there and LE be called in and swarm the home at any time? It seems so much like cover up or after the fact, it just smacks of it to me. On the other hand, someone living/staying in the home would have time and know they did and that no one would be coming until they called LE...

That's just a few of many things--for me there is too much to explain.

As to the indictment, from my understanding, things are sent to a grand jury to come to a decision and then prosecutors/DAs charge if it is recommended and go with the decision of the jury or they wouldn't send it to one. It is far from typical to have a grand jury's opinion and decision asked for and then go against their findings/recommendations. To me if you are worried about re-election or your job, you do what the people decided... Not the opposite unless....?

There is just soooo much that is so questionable. Imo.

I just don't, at minimum, see it being someone unfamiliar with the house, the family, etc. No way, no how. And more likely, a family member.

Jmo.
 
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