JOSHUA "JJ" VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN, TAMMY DAYBELL, & CHARLES VALLOW: State of Idaho/Arizona vs. Lori & Chad Daybell GUILTY

RoundPeg · Apr 28, 2023

If I was a juror, this would smack of conspiracy. This was about 5 months before Charles was killed, and about 7 months before Tylee and JJ were killed. From day 12 overview:

3 p.m. Lori and Charles eventually moved from Hawaii but in Feb. 2019, the weekend before Valentine’s Day, Raymond unexpectedly received a call from Lori. Lori said she was in Hawaii with Tylee and that Lori was leaving Charles. Lori reached out again saying they needed a place to stay. Lori and Tylee went to stay with Raymond.

3:10 p.m. Raymond says the first night Lori stayed with her, Lori said she had been appointed the leader of the 144,000 and she was in Hawaii to “gather” Raymond. She wanted Raymond to join her and she would need to be separated from her children because “she had fulfilled her role in their lives” and Raymond had a great mission to now fulfill. Lori told Raymond to leave the kids with their father.

RoundPeg · Apr 28, 2023

GrandmaBear said:
Another cousin's interview. Less than 19 minutes. Interesting.

Lori is in touch with by Zoom her parents on a weekly basis and some other family members it seems. That was one thing of interest.

She says Barry has been under investigation for sexual abuse. Do you suppose?

GrandmaBear · Apr 28, 2023

RoundPeg said:
If I was a juror, this would smack of conspiracy. This was about 5 months before Charles was killed, and about 7 months before Tylee and JJ were killed. From day 12 overview:

3 p.m. Lori and Charles eventually moved from Hawaii but in Feb. 2019, the weekend before Valentine’s Day, Raymond unexpectedly received a call from Lori. Lori said she was in Hawaii with Tylee and that Lori was leaving Charles. Lori reached out again saying they needed a place to stay. Lori and Tylee went to stay with Raymond.

3:10 p.m. Raymond says the first night Lori stayed with her, Lori said she had been appointed the leader of the 144,000 and she was in Hawaii to “gather” Raymond. She wanted Raymond to join her and she would need to be separated from her children because “she had fulfilled her role in their lives” and Raymond had a great mission to now fulfill. Lori told Raymond to leave the kids with their father.

I've heard this before but yeah all this stuff we have heard and even forgotten the jury is hearing fresh. And next step had Raymond followed (she didn't) would have likely been ensuring life insurance was in force on her husband (and maybe kids) and then an attack on the husband...

I think there is tons proving conspiracy here. Jurors sound like responsible jurors and there has been hardly a ripple. Let's hope and pray she is going away...

GrandmaBear · Apr 28, 2023

RoundPeg said:
She says Barry has been under investigation for sexual abuse. Do you suppose?

Both cousins said it. And both said he went to prison for tax evaision. And both said Barry was something else AND they also talked of Janice and BArry and their inappropriate sexual talk around anyone, etc. Hard to believe this is a Mormon family, I'm sorry but... And Barry's emphasis on physical looks and thinking THEY were the 5 percent of special and the other 95 percent of "us" are dumb and sheep... Sounds a lot like Lori doesn't it...

And that Lori was the "golden child" in their family...

So yeah, we can sure wonder.... Just as it is wondered about the relationship often inappropriate I gather between Alex and Lori...

Tresir · Apr 29, 2023

From the testimony -

When the coroner arrived rigor mortis had already set in and lividity showed Tammy had died on her back. Chad said he found her laying on the floor. Garth said he heard a thud and then heard his father calling. Garth went in and they lifted her body back onto the bed. Chad said Tammy would sleep on the edge of the bed with her leg hanging over due to getting menopausal hot flushes. He said the sheet must have released her body when he turned over in bed.

So he slept next to a dead wife most of the night and didn't know it.

I call BS.

Here's a DM article reporting from the trial also.

Lori Vallow's murder trial shown photos of Chad Daybell's dead wife

Vallow, 49, and Daybell, 54, are accused of murdering Tammy at his home in Rexburg, Idaho, in October 2019. Two weeks later they married in Hawaii.

www.dailymail.co.uk

GrandmaBear · Apr 29, 2023

Tresir said:
From the testimony -

When the coroner arrived rigor mortis had already set in and lividity showed Tammy had died on her back. Chad said he found her laying on the floor. Garth said he heard a thud and then heard his father calling. Garth went in and they lifted her body back onto the bed. Chad said Tammy would sleep on the edge of the bed with her leg hanging over due to getting menopausal hot flushes. He said the sheet must have released her body when he turned over in bed.

So he slept next to a dead wife most of the night and didn't know it.

I call BS.

Here's a DM article reporting from the trial also.

Lori Vallow's murder trial shown photos of Chad Daybell's dead wife

Vallow, 49, and Daybell, 54, are accused of murdering Tammy at his home in Rexburg, Idaho, in October 2019. Two weeks later they married in Hawaii.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Yeah I think the way it sounds first he claimed she rolled out of bed as she was dying. Then the dumb arse had to change it to the sheet as it was CLEAR she didn't "just" die but had been dead for some hours. IF true Garth probably heard a thud as Chad was trying to stage things or put her somewhere else or even remove her and once that happened, he quickly had to call for Garth in the event any of the people in the house heard the thud so his plans changed. Or it was always his plan to make the thud and call for a witness with his dumb story that she rolled out of bed but I think it more likely a plan he had went awry, like getting her into the bathroom or just something else...

One could actually wonder about Garth here... Chad also claimed Garth and him saw her vomiting in the bathroom the night before. Someone I watched had a good point last night, how many adult children go into a bathroom to see to their mother when the father is there, etc. Or just happen to witness it? So either she was really sick and again Chad called for help or Tammy did, or Chad is lying about that part, etc., etc. I don't mean she was "really" sick, I mean he gave her something which resulted in sickness IF EVEN TRUE.

Some expected them to put Garth up next to say whether true or not and more but they didn't did they?

I am GLAD Tammy is getting her day in court and her sister represented her well and is heartbroken to this day naturally. One would think one or more of her ADULT children would also represent Tammy but nope. I still find their behavior quite odd as if their mother's death was nothing but an expected event or nothing much. Do not get me wrong, they may absolutely be devastated but the little we do know, one has to wonder. Her sister, who barely had a lot of contact knew things, these kids were around them more and even lived there (one or some). They had to see issues and stress in the marriage and more. They have to have been told or seen things when Tammy died and have opinions, etc. and the rushed funeral when the baby wasn't even HOME but out of the country! If someone buried my mother without me even there no matter what my age, I'd have a real problem with that if they could have waited or asked, etc.

I have a problem with this big time--others are now getting the chance to really represent who the victims were, like Tammy's sister and Lori's cousins and more now that trial is underway but NOT her own children.

I almost feel like at minimum Chad the prophet told his kids like he told others that Tammy was to die and die young and then I'll take you to Knotts Berry Farm on her life insurance and it was like well okay then dad, we can go for that....

I know that isn't nice and maybe not even fair but short of seeing or hearing anything else from any of them it is as believable as any alternative.

Tresir · Apr 29, 2023

GrandmaBear said:
Yeah I think the way it sounds first he claimed she rolled out of bed as she was dying. Then the dumb arse had to change it to the sheet as it was CLEAR she didn't "just" die but had been dead for some hours. IF true Garth probably heard a thud as Chad was trying to stage things or put her somewhere else or even remove her and once that happened, he quickly had to call for Garth in the event any of the people in the house heard the thud so his plans changed. Or it was always his plan to make the thud and call for a witness with his dumb story that she rolled out of bed but I think it more likely a plan he had went awry, like getting her into the bathroom or just something else...

One could actually wonder about Garth here... Chad also claimed Garth and him saw her vomiting in the bathroom the night before. Someone I watched had a good point last night, how many adult children go into a bathroom to see to their mother when the father is there, etc. Or just happen to witness it? So either she was really sick and again Chad called for help or Tammy did, or Chad is lying about that part, etc., etc. I don't mean she was "really" sick, I mean he gave her something which resulted in sickness IF EVEN TRUE.

Some expected them to put Garth up next to say whether true or not and more but they didn't did they?

I am GLAD Tammy is getting her day in court and her sister represented her well and is heartbroken to this day naturally. One would think one or more of her ADULT children would also represent Tammy but nope. I still find their behavior quite odd as if their mother's death was nothing but an expected event or nothing much. Do not get me wrong, they may absolutely be devastated but the little we do know, one has to wonder. Her sister, who barely had a lot of contact knew things, these kids were around them more and even lived there (one or some). They had to see issues and stress in the marriage and more. They have to have been told or seen things when Tammy died and have opinions, etc. and the rushed funeral when the baby wasn't even HOME but out of the country! If someone buried my mother without me even there no matter what my age, I'd have a real problem with that if they could have waited or asked, etc.

I have a problem with this big time--others are now getting the chance to really represent who the victims were, like Tammy's sister and Lori's cousins and more now that trial is underway but NOT her own children.

I almost feel like at minimum Chad the prophet told his kids like he told others that Tammy was to die and die young and then I'll take you to Knotts Berry Farm on her life insurance and it was like well okay then dad, we can go for that....

I know that isn't nice and maybe not even fair but short of seeing or hearing anything else from any of them it is as believable as any alternative.

I think they will testify for Chad's defence. If Lori is found guilty they will blame it all on her and Alex. For some reason, Dad Chad can do no wrong.

GrandmaBear · Apr 29, 2023

Tresir said:
I think they will testify for Chad's defence. If Lori is found guilty they will blame it all on her and Alex. For some reason, Dad Chad can do no wrong.

Yeah Chaddy the daddy is just awesome. Not. As we know.

Do you think the prosecution will call Garth?

Do you have reason for thinking they will testify for the defense? Meaning have you heard that? I don't know. I can't imagine these kids doing well on the stand and since I would think Chad probably gave them through their life and on their mom's death a different line of b.s. then he told others, would he want them up there? What I mean is liars tell various people different stories and I suspect these kids had a different version of a lot of things than we know or some others know.

It is like Lori telling Charles' kids that Charles had a heart attack. Big mistake. And Chad told Lori's sister Lori's husband I think had a heart attack. Again a big mistake she easily found otherwise on Google searching. Chad's kids have probably been told far different things as well than the facts will portray...

So you don't think any of them will be called in Lori's trial?

I'm not doubting you, just wondering if you have heard anything re that.

Tresir · Apr 29, 2023

GrandmaBear said:
Yeah Chaddy the daddy is just awesome. Not. As we know.

Do you think the prosecution will call Garth?

Do you have reason for thinking they will testify for the defense? Meaning have you heard that? I don't know. I can't imagine these kids doing well on the stand and since I would think Chad probably gave them through their life and on their mom's death a different line of b.s. then he told others, would he want them up there? What I mean is liars tell various people different stories and I suspect these kids had a different version of a lot of things than we know or some others know.

It is like Lori telling Charles' kids that Charles had a heart attack. Big mistake. And Chad told Lori's sister Lori's husband I think had a heart attack. Again a big mistake she easily found otherwise on Google searching. Chad's kids have probably been told far different things as well than the facts will portray...

So you don't think any of them will be called in Lori's trial?

I'm not doubting you, just wondering if you have heard anything re that.

Hearing that Garth and Emma attended ( Emma did not want an autopsy on her mother but Garth was non committal according to Dye's testimony) Tammy's death, I think they will testify for the defence in Chad's trial. The reason I think that is that if they had suspicions, they would have wanted an autopsy. So they believed it was natural causes. Now the COD is asphyxiation, maybe they won't accept or believe it and with Tammy dead and Chad in prison for life, they lose both parents, so they will have to believe he is a murderer. I don't think they will believe it. Maybe, like Summer with the exhumations of the kids, she finally realised her sister was a murderer, they may get a revelation after hearing all this evidence. BUT, if they are testifying, they are not supposed to follow the trial, so they won't have heard it. If they don't testify in this trial, I guess they still won't be able to follow this or even read about it afterwards, if they will testify in Chad's trial. How will that work? Will any possible defendants in Chad's trial have to avoid all info in Lori's trial and conviction or what?

GrandmaBear · Apr 29, 2023

Tresir said:
Hearing that Garth and Emma attended ( Emma did not want an autopsy on her mother but Garth was non committal according to Dye's testimony) Tammy's death, I think they will testify for the defence in Chad's trial. The reason I think that is that if they had suspicions, they would have wanted an autopsy. So they believed it was natural causes. Now the COD is asphyxiation, maybe they won't accept or believe it and with Tammy dead and Chad in prison for life, they lose both parents, so they will have to believe he is a murderer. I don't think they will believe it. Maybe, like Summer with the exhumations of the kids, she finally realised her sister was a murderer, they may get a revelation after hearing all this evidence. BUT, if they are testifying, they are not supposed to follow the trial, so they won't have heard it. If they don't testify in this trial, I guess they still won't be able to follow this or even read about it afterwards, if they will testify in Chad's trial. How will that work? Will any possible defendants in Chad's trial have to avoid all info in Lori's trial and conviction or what?

I don't know. I get why you think it but these "kids" would then be subject to cross which I think could hurt Chad a lot more than help and hurt them as well. They would have to answer and I think the way they were raised and what they saw and more would be a lot of fodder. Of course they would have to testify if subpoenaed but I'm not sure Chad would want them to unless he is stupidly sure he can control it which he can't when it comes to cross exam for sure.

I don't know that they can't watch testimony etc. in Lori's case. I mean Chad could if he had access just like Prior can. Plus they have rights as victim's family (Tammy) although they didn't put in for it but under that could be in the courtroom watching if they so wanted.

I have no idea if they would have to keep away from it if testifying in Chad's but I think it's a reach to think Boyce could order that with the cases no longer joined. Not sure. But again they are a victim's family so they have the right to see.

I can't help it, I am starting to wonder about Garth although all of what is starting to seem odd (and I recall thinking it back when on hearing a few of these "facts") and his presence at the vomiting and after, etc., etc. although ALL of this may well have been maneuvered by Chad...

Kimster · Apr 29, 2023

GrandmaBear said:
Yeah I think the way it sounds first he claimed she rolled out of bed as she was dying. Then the dumb arse had to change it to the sheet as it was CLEAR she didn't "just" die but had been dead for some hours. IF true Garth probably heard a thud as Chad was trying to stage things or put her somewhere else or even remove her and once that happened, he quickly had to call for Garth in the event any of the people in the house heard the thud so his plans changed. Or it was always his plan to make the thud and call for a witness with his dumb story that she rolled out of bed but I think it more likely a plan he had went awry, like getting her into the bathroom or just something else...

One could actually wonder about Garth here... Chad also claimed Garth and him saw her vomiting in the bathroom the night before. Someone I watched had a good point last night, how many adult children go into a bathroom to see to their mother when the father is there, etc. Or just happen to witness it? So either she was really sick and again Chad called for help or Tammy did, or Chad is lying about that part, etc., etc. I don't mean she was "really" sick, I mean he gave her something which resulted in sickness IF EVEN TRUE.

Some expected them to put Garth up next to say whether true or not and more but they didn't did they?

I am GLAD Tammy is getting her day in court and her sister represented her well and is heartbroken to this day naturally. One would think one or more of her ADULT children would also represent Tammy but nope. I still find their behavior quite odd as if their mother's death was nothing but an expected event or nothing much. Do not get me wrong, they may absolutely be devastated but the little we do know, one has to wonder. Her sister, who barely had a lot of contact knew things, these kids were around them more and even lived there (one or some). They had to see issues and stress in the marriage and more. They have to have been told or seen things when Tammy died and have opinions, etc. and the rushed funeral when the baby wasn't even HOME but out of the country! If someone buried my mother without me even there no matter what my age, I'd have a real problem with that if they could have waited or asked, etc.

I have a problem with this big time--others are now getting the chance to really represent who the victims were, like Tammy's sister and Lori's cousins and more now that trial is underway but NOT her own children.

I almost feel like at minimum Chad the prophet told his kids like he told others that Tammy was to die and die young and then I'll take you to Knotts Berry Farm on her life insurance and it was like well okay then dad, we can go for that....

I know that isn't nice and maybe not even fair but short of seeing or hearing anything else from any of them it is as believable as any alternative.

I agree with what you’re saying. If I was a juror, I would wonder why they haven’t had Garth on the stand.

Kimster · Apr 29, 2023

Tresir said:
Hearing that Garth and Emma attended ( Emma did not want an autopsy on her mother but Garth was non committal according to Dye's testimony) Tammy's death, I think they will testify for the defence in Chad's trial. The reason I think that is that if they had suspicions, they would have wanted an autopsy. So they believed it was natural causes. Now the COD is asphyxiation, maybe they won't accept or believe it and with Tammy dead and Chad in prison for life, they lose both parents, so they will have to believe he is a murderer. I don't think they will believe it. Maybe, like Summer with the exhumations of the kids, she finally realised her sister was a murderer, they may get a revelation after hearing all this evidence. BUT, if they are testifying, they are not supposed to follow the trial, so they won't have heard it. If they don't testify in this trial, I guess they still won't be able to follow this or even read about it afterwards, if they will testify in Chad's trial. How will that work? Will any possible defendants in Chad's trial have to avoid all info in Lori's trial and conviction or what?

We’ve had a little birdie tell us that chads kids think that chad was bewitched somehow. I thought that they might think Alex killed their mother once they found out the cause of death. But Garth was there! I didn’t realize that for some reason. If I knew it before, I forgot until trial.

Kimster · Apr 29, 2023

GrandmaBear said:
I don't know. I get why you think it but these "kids" would then be subject to cross which I think could hurt Chad a lot more than help and hurt them as well. They would have to answer and I think the way they were raised and what they saw and more would be a lot of fodder. Of course they would have to testify if subpoenaed but I'm not sure Chad would want them to unless he is stupidly sure he can control it which he can't when it comes to cross exam for sure.

I don't know that they can't watch testimony etc. in Lori's case. I mean Chad could if he had access just like Prior can. Plus they have rights as victim's family (Tammy) although they didn't put in for it but under that could be in the courtroom watching if they so wanted.

I have no idea if they would have to keep away from it if testifying in Chad's but I think it's a reach to think Boyce could order that with the cases no longer joined. Not sure. But again they are a victim's family so they have the right to see.

I can't help it, I am starting to wonder about Garth although all of what is starting to seem odd (and I recall thinking it back when on hearing a few of these "facts") and his presence at the vomiting and after, etc., etc. although ALL of this may well have been maneuvered by Chad...

I would think that if she was vomiting, it would be from some thing that she was given to make her drowsy. I can’t remember offhand what the toxicology report said?

Tresir · Apr 29, 2023

Ok so I just came across this article about a book that this interviewee has written and it looks like she has done a lot of research into the LDS church and these splinter groups. She has some theories and opinions about who is the leader between Chad and Lori. I have read about three quarters of this and it does seem to come some way to explain what has happened with these two screwball meeting like they did.

It has just crossed my mind that these two are not unlike Myra Hindley and Ian Brady meeting up and committing murderous atrocities, whereas separately, or with another partner, it may not have happened. A perfect storm, as the saying goes.

New book by Oregon journalist focuses on religious extremism

Portland journalist Leah Sottile’s book “When the Moon Turns to Blood” centers on the case of Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell. The couple will be on trial next year, accused of killing two of Vallow’s children whose bodies were found in Daybell’s backyard. But the book is about much more than just...

www.opb.org

Tresir · Apr 29, 2023

Kimster said:
I would think that if she was vomiting, it would be from some thing that she was given to make her drowsy. I can’t remember offhand what the toxicology report said?

Vomiting makes me think of the Exorcist.

GrandmaBear · Apr 29, 2023

Tresir said:
Ok so I just came across this article about a book that this interviewee has written and it looks like she has done a lot of research into the LDS church and these splinter groups. She has some theories and opinions about who is the leader between Chad and Lori. I have read about three quarters of this and it does seem to come some way to explain what has happened with these two screwball meeting like they did.

It has just crossed my mind that these two are not unlike Myra Hindley and Ian Brady meeting up and committing murderous atrocities, whereas separately, or with another partner, it may not have happened. A perfect storm, as the saying goes.

New book by Oregon journalist focuses on religious extremism

Portland journalist Leah Sottile’s book “When the Moon Turns to Blood” centers on the case of Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell. The couple will be on trial next year, accused of killing two of Vallow’s children whose bodies were found in Daybell’s backyard. But the book is about much more than just...

www.opb.org

No time to read it but I have always felt both of these two are equally as bad and if anyone was the more dominant, I'd have said Chad. Not that Lori doesn't play up to that and to his "power" and flirts with the "devil".

Guess Who · Apr 29, 2023

Kimster said:
I would think that if she was vomiting, it would be from some thing that she was given to make her drowsy. I can’t remember offhand what the toxicology report said?

I wonder if ipecac is looked for in an autopsy. If sure would give an impression of being sick if one needed that to happen.

Guess Who · Apr 29, 2023

GrandmaBear said:
No time to read it but I have always felt both of these two are equally as bad and if anyone was the more dominant, I'd have said Chad. Not that Lori doesn't play up to that and to his "power" and flirts with the "devil".

Agreed. They were both horrible.

GrandmaBear · Apr 29, 2023

Tresir said:
Vomiting makes me think of the Exorcist.

It does and it fits with some things as well as if they thought their mother to be possessed...

Take this for what it is worth or as each watching it might, I just ran into this. It is short. And on just starting again with me to wonder about Garth and Chad's kids, it is quite interesting. And it does talk of what Chad's kids were taught, etc. I can't verify any of it but it "seems" to come from sources and testimony, etc. Worth the short watch just for the thoughts it brings...

GrandmaBear · Apr 29, 2023

Kimster said:
I agree with what you’re saying. If I was a juror, I would wonder why they haven’t had Garth on the stand.

I think prosecution has done an awesome job but I agree. The next natural step is and was for Garth to take the stand and I would definitely wonder why they stayed away from it. However, they are doing as someone said, maybe Nate, where they put up a few LE or doctors, cell record experts, etc. and things get a bit dry or more technical and then they mix in a more personal witness like Colby, Tammy's sister, Kay Woodcock, etc. so maybe they will put Garth up at some point next week....?

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JOSHUA "JJ" VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN, TAMMY DAYBELL, & CHARLES VALLOW: State of Idaho/Arizona vs. Lori & Chad Daybell GUILTY