JOSHUA "JJ" VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN, TAMMY DAYBELL, & CHARLES VALLOW: State of Idaho/Arizona vs. Lori & Chad Daybell GUILTY

GrandmaBear · Apr 29, 2023

Guess Who said:
I wonder if ipecac is looked for in an autopsy. If sure would give an impression of being sick if one needed that to happen.

I first thought of slow poisoning over time, making her seem to have an illness or even be a bit crazy or a hypochondriac, Lord knows we've seen cases like that. But then I quickly realized he couldn't have been doing that most likely as she was from what all say, perfectly fine and healthy just the day before, and days before, etc. at work and functioning. So yes if he gave her something it was not long before...

That's IF the vomiting was true. That came from Chad, Garth never verified it to my knowledge, that he was present or that it happened...

Tresir · Apr 29, 2023

GrandmaBear said:
No time to read it but I have always felt both of these two are equally as bad and if anyone was the more dominant, I'd have said Chad. Not that Lori doesn't play up to that and to his "power" and flirts with the "devil".

This author says Lori is the leader. Lori has apparentlý told people she is a goddess and a leader of the 144,000. (Her friend April Raymond in Hawaii testified Lori said she was the leader and gatherer of the 144k.)

Tresir · Apr 29, 2023

GrandmaBear said:
I think prosecution has done an awesome job but I agree. The next natural step is and was for Garth to take the stand and I would definitely wonder why they stayed away from it. However, they are doing as someone said, maybe Nate, where they put up a few LE or doctors, cell record experts, etc. and things get a bit dry or more technical and then they mix in a more personal witness like Colby, Tammy's sister, Kay Woodcock, etc. so maybe they will put Garth up at some point next week....?

I think we still have to hear from the medical examiner who did the exhumation and ended up saying asphyxiation was the cause of death right?

Perhaps she was given sleeping pills or something else and the plastic bag over the head like JJ? The coroner Dye said that her face had pink foam running out of her mouth and a towel had been used to wipe her face IIRC.

Tresir · Apr 29, 2023

This is an Idaho News article about yesterday's testimonies.

Tammy Daybell's sister, friends and investigators testify about her health at the time of her death

Many witnesses on the stand today speaking to the health of Tammy Daybell, and what was observed the morning of her death.

www.kivitv.com

Tresir · Apr 29, 2023

GrandmaBear said:
It does and it fits with some things as well as if they thought their mother to be possessed...

Take this for what it is worth or as each watching it might, I just ran into this. It is short. And on just starting again with me to wonder about Garth and Chad's kids, it is quite interesting. And it does talk of what Chad's kids were taught, etc. I can't verify any of it but it "seems" to come from sources and testimony, etc. Worth the short watch just for the thoughts it brings...

Even more reason for Garth to take the stand then.

Tresir · Apr 29, 2023

I found this report of an interview with the Daybell children, where they talk about the death of Tammy as well as the exhumations. They think he is innocent and has been framed, because he is too smart to bury bodies on his own land.

Yeah, right......

Chad Daybell's Children Insist He's Innocent, Say He's Too Smart To Bury Bodies On His Own Property | Oxygen Official Site

After months of silence, Chad Daybell’s children are speaking out to proclaim his innocence, insisting he's too smart to have buried the bodies of Lori Vallow’s children on his own property.

www.oxygen.com

GrandmaBear · Apr 29, 2023

Tresir said:
I found this report of an interview with the Daybell children, where they talk about the death of Tammy as well as the exhumations. They think he is innocent and has been framed, because he is too smart to bury bodies on his own land.

Yeah, right......

Chad Daybell's Children Insist He's Innocent, Say He's Too Smart To Bury Bodies On His Own Property | Oxygen Official Site

After months of silence, Chad Daybell’s children are speaking out to proclaim his innocence, insisting he's too smart to have buried the bodies of Lori Vallow’s children on his own property.

www.oxygen.com

I don't want to be mean but I guess I'm going to be when I say I'm beginning to wonder about the intelligence level of these "children". Chad did a number of very stupid things and surely they can see that. I'm past even allowing for denial with that, it is beginning to seem like plain stupidity and flat out immaturity. I haven't read it but I suppose they think he knew nothing of it and other people were alone on their property for some length of time using tools, board, shovels, concrete.... That's just an asinine thought. If fact, it is more likely they can look back and pinpoint when he did such both with his behavior and things around the time of the raccoon text. Did he send them away like Tammy or were they right at home while dad "played" outside...

Guess Who · Apr 29, 2023

GrandmaBear said:
I don't want to be mean but I guess I'm going to be when I say I'm beginning to wonder about the intelligence level of these "children". Chad did a number of very stupid things and surely they can see that. I'm past even allowing for denial with that, it is beginning to seem like plain stupidity and flat out immaturity. I haven't read it but I suppose they think he knew nothing of it and other people were alone on their property for some length of time using tools, board, shovels, concrete.... That's just an asinine thought. If fact, it is more likely they can look back and pinpoint when he did such both with his behavior and things around the time of the raccoon text. Did he send them away like Tammy or were they right at home while dad "played" outside...

I think it's probably more of refusing to see what you don't want to believe. They have to know deep inside, but just can't get into here to admit it.

GrandmaBear · Apr 29, 2023

Guess Who said:
I think it's probably more of refusing to see what you don't want to believe. They have to know deep inside, but just can't get into here to admit it.

Wouldn't you think they'd have been questioned pretty hard by LE in this too? I mean Garth was present and at least Emma lived nearby or at that time may have even lived in the home. Head in the sand or not I'd think LE would have shared some hard truths and facts with them in that process.

If Garth isn't called, I'm really going to wonder why and even more so in Chad's trial.

Tresir · Apr 29, 2023

GrandmaBear said:
I don't want to be mean but I guess I'm going to be when I say I'm beginning to wonder about the intelligence level of these "children". Chad did a number of very stupid things and surely they can see that. I'm past even allowing for denial with that, it is beginning to seem like plain stupidity and flat out immaturity. I haven't read it but I suppose they think he knew nothing of it and other people were alone on their property for some length of time using tools, board, shovels, concrete.... That's just an asinine thought. If fact, it is more likely they can look back and pinpoint when he did such both with his behavior and things around the time of the raccoon text. Did he send them away like Tammy or were they right at home while dad "played" outside...

I don't know what to think except they are incredibly naive if they have not changed their minds since listening to all the phone and other evidence. Also, the "raccoon text" has been public for some time and the children's bodies were found in June 2020 I believe. This interview was shortly after that and they are still not accepting he had anything to do with any of the deaths? And that he was "framed"? Both he and Lori have lied to the authorities about the children, so if he was framed, why did he lie and not tell LE who was "framing" him.

I think this is clearly what he is telling his children ie that he is innocent and was "framed". I think he is a born liar, starting with his teenage "near death experiences" and his "glimpses through the veil". If he can see through the veil, shouldn't he have seen this coming?

Hoisted by his own petard.

GrandmaBear · Apr 29, 2023

I do know what petard means.

I think too he was born a liar or become one shortly after coming out of the womb.

None of it makes any sense if his children think about it and so, I don't think that's even naivete, or denial.

He lied about being married to Lori, he lied about not knowing where the kids were, he lied to their MOTHER, he lied, lied, lied. He killed their MOTHER.

I can understand that your whole world is crumbling and you can't take another thing and oh my can I understand that, but at the same time, it crumbles further if you don't face up to what you have to. Their father has been in jail for how darned long now? Every station, every online crime site, everywhere, everything has covered this case and their dad and his new wifey. Several police departments and sheriff's departments and the state and F B I have been involved in these cases and yet his children know better...?!

His children should thank their lucky stars they are alive. Do they believe they wouldn't have become expendable? But who knows what we don't know. Maybe the married ones (most) are part of the 144k and were told that by Chad and Lori... Rexburg was to be the place for all of it and why Chad moved there... And moved his family there... Only Tammy I guess was not to be his wife or one of those 144k. I wonder, do we know, how his kids were rated? I mean he rated everyone connected to Lori...

Tresir · Apr 29, 2023

⁶

GrandmaBear said:
I do know what petard means.

I think too he was born a liar or become one shortly after coming out of the womb.

None of it makes any sense if his children think about it and so, I don't think that's even naivete, or denial.

He lied about being married to Lori, he lied about not knowing where the kids were, he lied to their MOTHER, he lied, lied, lied. He killed their MOTHER.

I can understand that your whole world is crumbling and you can't take another thing and oh my can I understand that, but at the same time, it crumbles further if you don't face up to what you have to. Their father has been in jail for how darned long now? Every station, every online crime site, everywhere, everything has covered this case and their dad and his new wifey. Several police departments and sheriff's departments and the state and F B I have been involved in these cases and yet his children know better...?!

His children should thank their lucky stars they are alive. Do they believe they wouldn't have become expendable? But who knows what we don't know. Maybe the married ones (most) are part of the 144k and were told that by Chad and Lori... Rexburg was to be the place for all of it and why Chad moved there... And moved his family there... Only Tammy I guess was not to be his wife or one of those 144k. I wonder, do we know, how his kids were rated? I mean he rated everyone connected to Lori...

You have a good point. Do the kids have children themselves? Ie does Chad have any grandkids, because it seems children are not part of the 144k. JJ and Tylee were not part of the 144k and neither were April Raymond's children. Maybe children are expendable in these final days and that is why the Daybell young adults don't appear to care about JJ and Tylee being found in their backyard. They have to believe in this 144k crap too OMG.

Guess Who · Apr 29, 2023

GrandmaBear said:
I do know what petard means.

I think too he was born a liar or become one shortly after coming out of the womb.

None of it makes any sense if his children think about it and so, I don't think that's even naivete, or denial.

He lied about being married to Lori, he lied about not knowing where the kids were, he lied to their MOTHER, he lied, lied, lied. He killed their MOTHER.

I can understand that your whole world is crumbling and you can't take another thing and oh my can I understand that, but at the same time, it crumbles further if you don't face up to what you have to. Their father has been in jail for how darned long now? Every station, every online crime site, everywhere, everything has covered this case and their dad and his new wifey. Several police departments and sheriff's departments and the state and F B I have been involved in these cases and yet his children know better...?!

His children should thank their lucky stars they are alive. Do they believe they wouldn't have become expendable? But who knows what we don't know. Maybe the married ones (most) are part of the 144k and were told that by Chad and Lori... Rexburg was to be the place for all of it and why Chad moved there... And moved his family there... Only Tammy I guess was not to be his wife or one of those 144k. I wonder, do we know, how his kids were rated? I mean he rated everyone connected to Lori...

Others want to know

What does by their own petard mean?

[ (pi-tahrd) ] To be caught in one's own trap: “The swindler cheated himself out of most of his money, and his victims were satisfied to see him hoist by his own petard.” A “petard” was an explosive device used in medieval warfare.

Tresir · Apr 29, 2023

This is an updated article on the Daybell family interviews. There is a picture of Alex sitting on the kerb as well as a picture of Garth sitting with his siblings and they do appear to have a similar build.

A lot more of the interview and pictures appear in this update.

Chad Daybell's children claim he was "fooled in the worst, most deadly way possible" by Lori Vallow

For the first time together, the five children of the accused child murderer defend their father who, along with his new wife, is charged with the 2019 murders of JJ Vallow and Tylee Ryan.

www.cbsnews.com

Tresir · Apr 29, 2023

GrandmaBear said:
I first thought of slow poisoning over time, making her seem to have an illness or even be a bit crazy or a hypochondriac, Lord knows we've seen cases like that. But then I quickly realized he couldn't have been doing that most likely as she was from what all say, perfectly fine and healthy just the day before, and days before, etc. at work and functioning. So yes if he gave her something it was not long before...

That's IF the vomiting was true. That came from Chad, Garth never verified it to my knowledge, that he was present or that it happened...

Also, she was away visiting her family shortly before her death and was reportedly fine then, as well as attending fitness classes on her return.
So this coughing fit the night she died - i wonder when exactly that was because the TOD was estimated between 12 and 2 a.m. IIRC.

ETA here is an article that has the dates of her visit to Springfield.

Lori Vallow’s husband told ex her gran ‘visited’ him in vision before she died

THE husband of “Cult Mom” Lori Vallow told his previous wife that her dead grandmother had “visited” him just two weeks before her sudden death. Chad Daybell reportedly told…

www.thesun.co.uk

"Among them is Tammy, who died in her sleep aged 49 just two weeks before Chad married Lori in November of last year.

Speaking to East Idaho News, sources said Tammy made a trip to her parents' home on October 4 last year, just a day after Chad's purported visitation.

She had reportedly told Chad that she would like to make the trip, but was hesitant because she usually only travelled with him and their children.

She drove to her parents and spent one night with them before returning on October 5.

Just a few days later, on October 9, Tammy was getting out of her car on her driveway when a man in a ski mask appeared and shot at her several times with a paintball gun before running away.

Police believed the incident was a prank and no culprit was ever identified.

Tammy died just ten days later."

Based on the article -

Oct 3 Tammy's dead Grandma visits Chad
Oct 4 and 5 Tammy visits Springfield
Oct 9 incident with man in ski mask
Oct 19 Tammy's death

RoundPeg · Apr 29, 2023

Tresir said:
Also, she was away visiting her family about 10 days shortly before her death and was reportedly fine then, as well as attending fitness classes on her return.
So this coughing fit the night she died - i wonder when exactly that was because the TOD was estimated between 12 and 2 a.m. IIRC.

ETA here is an article that has the dates of her visit to Springfield.

Lori Vallow’s husband told ex her gran ‘visited’ him in vision before she died

THE husband of “Cult Mom” Lori Vallow told his previous wife that her dead grandmother had “visited” him just two weeks before her sudden death. Chad Daybell reportedly told…

www.thesun.co.uk

I've considered she's lucky she wasn't buried in the backyard btw. Morbid, but I think her "falling out of bed" was Chad dropping her body possibly.

Tresir · Apr 29, 2023

RoundPeg said:
I've considered she's lucky she wasn't buried in the backyard btw. Morbid, but I think her "falling out of bed" was Chad dropping her body possibly.

You could have a point. Even the coroner seemed to wonder how she could fall out of bed if she had been dead for hours.

GrandmaBear · Apr 29, 2023

Tresir said:
⁶

You have a good point. Do the kids have children themselves? Ie does Chad have any grandkids, because it seems children are not part of the 144k. JJ and Tylee were not part of the 144k and neither were April Raymond's children. Maybe children are expendable in these final days and that is why the Daybell young adults don't appear to care about JJ and Tylee being found in their backyard. They have to believe in this 144k crap too OMG.

It only came to me for the first time in these years as I was typing that post. it just clicked, that thought.

It has been said Tammy was a grandma so there were/are children. And since children are NOT part of the 144K then they would be expected to leave them if they are part right? Or they themselves and certainly their children would be expendable.

I've had an interesting day and time will likely pass before I can share it all. Forget my day as to my stuff (that alone is a story) but I watched a 48 hours that I thought at first was new but was an old one on this case and going back to it and back on a case is interesting as to what you notice or remember and is confirmed, etc... And then I watched just now Linda from It's A Crime. I'd share it, maybe someone else can, because I don't know how to copy and paste links when I don't have a mouse and I forgot my mouse (part of my day). I can barely navigate with the touch pad on my laptop as I don't use touch pads I am a mouse person... My day also involved a dead mouse. So two kinds of mice....

Anywho... There was so much and so many thoughts but a couple of them....

Linda referred to a text from Mel P after Charles' death telling Lori she should look into life insurance for herself and the kids because per Charles' death who knows what can happen and then Lori was looking up/searching Gerber life insurance.... Mel had also just got a new burner phone and told her... Due to not being able to watch this trial live, some of these things are not caught up with. Linda is not sure why the heck Mel hasn't been charged (there is more) and I agree. I think that of both Mels. But Mel P just with her own sh*t.

It was worth watching as hers usually are. I think the prosecution would be wise to surf these things and align what many are matching up as to dates and searches, etc. and use such in their closing argument to tie all together. Maybe they have all on their own.

In the 48 Hours thing, rewatching Summer and Janice was notable for me. Janice was clearly lying at every question imo and covering for Lori. Oh and Lori's answer to her? You KNOW me MOM. Just as she said to Mel and Summer, etc. It is CLEARLY a Lori THING... She uses and has for a long time. The service dog thing came up in more than one of them and notable. Janice said JJ didn't need the dog, Charles was the one who wanted the dog and cared about the dog. The dog guy said the opposite and wondered why Lori would get rid of the dog when it was helpful for JJ and the first time he slept through the night was once he had the dog. And she did try to sell the dog first which I THOUGHT and mentioned a few days ago.

So much more... Can't recall all right now but some notable things.

GrandmaBear · Apr 29, 2023

Guess Who said:
Others want to know

What does by their own petard mean?

[ (pi-tahrd) ] To be caught in one's own trap: “The swindler cheated himself out of most of his money, and his victims were satisfied to see him hoist by his own petard.” A “petard” was an explosive device used in medieval warfare.

Like the emu's medieval weapons like his guillotine. He deserves to be hung by his own "petard". That's my thinking on it.

Well, at least sometimes he does... I'll soften the thought a bit but not by much...

Chad and Lori do MORE SO.

GrandmaBear · Apr 29, 2023

I take it to mean hung by your own actions also, no one else did it to you, you did it to yourself. And in this case, that certainly holds true.

JOSHUA "JJ" VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN, TAMMY DAYBELL, & CHARLES VALLOW: State of Idaho/Arizona vs. Lori & Chad Daybell *GUILTY*

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JOSHUA "JJ" VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN, TAMMY DAYBELL, & CHARLES VALLOW: State of Idaho/Arizona vs. Lori & Chad Daybell GUILTY