JOSHUA "JJ" VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN, TAMMY DAYBELL, & CHARLES VALLOW: State of Idaho/Arizona vs. Lori & Chad Daybell GUILTY

GrandmaBear · Apr 29, 2023

Tresir said:
Also, she was away visiting her family shortly before her death and was reportedly fine then, as well as attending fitness classes on her return.
So this coughing fit the night she died - i wonder when exactly that was because the TOD was estimated between 12 and 2 a.m. IIRC.

ETA here is an article that has the dates of her visit to Springfield.

Lori Vallow’s husband told ex her gran ‘visited’ him in vision before she died

THE husband of “Cult Mom” Lori Vallow told his previous wife that her dead grandmother had “visited” him just two weeks before her sudden death. Chad Daybell reportedly told…

www.thesun.co.uk

"Among them is Tammy, who died in her sleep aged 49 just two weeks before Chad married Lori in November of last year.

Speaking to East Idaho News, sources said Tammy made a trip to her parents' home on October 4 last year, just a day after Chad's purported visitation.

She had reportedly told Chad that she would like to make the trip, but was hesitant because she usually only travelled with him and their children.

She drove to her parents and spent one night with them before returning on October 5.

Just a few days later, on October 9, Tammy was getting out of her car on her driveway when a man in a ski mask appeared and shot at her several times with a paintball gun before running away.

Police believed the incident was a prank and no culprit was ever identified.

Tammy died just ten days later."

Based on the article -

Oct 3 Tammy's dead Grandma visits Chad
Oct 4 and 5 Tammy visits Springfield
Oct 9 incident with man in ski mask
Oct 19 Tammy's death

I wouldn't ask if I had a computer mouse at the moment but when was it again the racoon text? And where was Tammy at that time, I know she was away... I am very limited on a touch pad and am barely navigating. Lol.

GrandmaBear · Apr 29, 2023

Speaking of the racoon text, it came to me listening to Linda's video tonight that he said and burning some limbs... And it hit me as we just heard more on Tylee's dismemberment that he probably did burn LIMBS, human ones... Linda didn't say that but it hit me like a ton of bricks and she did say something else though in the video that was like a double meaning. Not to do with that but something else... Seems like it might have been to do with Mel P. and the life insurance remark or something else. It will come to me... Hopefully... I had a few aha moments listening to some stuff today...Just can't recall them all as there were several and watched a few things AND of course had a lot of other going on re my own life.

GrandmaBear · Apr 29, 2023

Oh and also BIG T from Jonestown must be there or have been there one day because one channel I watch had her over and Larry and Kay and some others in Rexburg I am assuming. I stopped the video the minute I knew the one from JT was there. I can go six months or more and not hear a word about her and then she pops into some case where she hasn't covered sh*t herself prior. I exited. I'm all for Larry and Kay and most there but not for her popping in. @Kimster and the rest of the bunch. I left before I caught a glimpse or heard a word. I felt like saying something but being it is an ongoing crucial case for these kids and Tammy right now, figured I'd leave it alone...

Tresir · Apr 30, 2023

GrandmaBear said:
I wouldn't ask if I had a computer mouse at the moment but when was it again the racoon text? And where was Tammy at that time, I know she was away... I am very limited on a touch pad and am barely navigating. Lol.

She was at work and Chad texted her on Sept 9th, I believe, saying he was burning some "limbs" and shot a raccoon while doing that so buried it in the pet cemetery. This would clearly cover for the disturbed earth in the pet cemetery as well as fresh cinders in the area too. Just look at these dates which seal Chad and Lori's fate IMO, especially the raccoon text, the ring purchase and the visit from dead Grandma.

Dates
Sep 9 Tylee's death, dismemberment, burning and burial. Raccoon text.
Sep 23 JJ's death and burial
Oct 2 failed shooting on Brandon
Oct 2 Lori purchases wedding ring
Oct 3 Tammy's dead Grandma visits Chad
Oct 4 and 5 Tammy visits Springfield
Oct 9 failed shooting by man in ski mask
Oct 19 Tammy's death
Oct 23 Tammy's funeral
Nov 5 beach wedding

3 murders, 2 attempted murders, a funeral and a wedding, all in less than 2 months.

Article re wedding ring purchase.

Lori Vallow bought wedding ring days before Chad Daybell's wife died

Lori and Chad tied the knot in Hawaii on November 5, less than two weeks after Tammy died on October 19. Wedding photos show Lori wearing a ring she apparently purchased on October 2.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Tresir · Apr 30, 2023

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR22211623/Indictment.pdf

The actual witness list on this case is sealed but this is the GJ witness list (approx 44 people) so it gives us an idea of who may still have to testify. Garth and Emma are on this list.

This is the article that states there are 47 witnesses for this case but the judge has since sealed the list so the listed attachment is not accessible and is why I found the above GJ list, which has not been sealed.

Chad Daybell and 47 others may be called as witnesses in Lori Daybell's court hearings - East Idaho News

REXBURG — Chad Daybell may be called to take the stand at his wife’s preliminary hearing next month, according to newly filed court documents. Lori Vallow Daybell is charged with two counts of felony child abandonment, misdemeanor resisting and obstructing an officer, solicitation of a crime and...

www.eastidahonews.com

GrandmaBear · Apr 30, 2023

Tresir said:
She was at work and Chad texted her on Sept 9th, I believe, saying he was burning some "limbs" and shot a raccoon while doing that so buried it in the pet cemetery. This would clearly cover for the disturbed earth in the pet cemetery as well as fresh cinders in the area too. Just look at these dates which seal Chad and Lori's fate IMO, especially the raccoon text, the ring purchase and the visit from dead Grandma.

Dates
Sep 9 Tylee's death, dismemberment, burning and burial. Raccoon text.
Sep 23 JJ's death and burial
Oct 2 failed shooting on Brandon
Oct 2 Lori purchases wedding ring
Oct 3 Tammy's dead Grandma visits Chad
Oct 4 and 5 Tammy visits Springfield
Oct 9 failed shooting by man in ski mask
Oct 19 Tammy's death
Oct 23 Tammy's funeral
Nov 5 beach wedding

3 murders, 2 attempted murders, a funeral and a wedding, all in less than 2 months.

Article re wedding ring purchase.

Lori Vallow bought wedding ring days before Chad Daybell's wife died

Lori and Chad tied the knot in Hawaii on November 5, less than two weeks after Tammy died on October 19. Wedding photos show Lori wearing a ring she apparently purchased on October 2.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Linda/It's a Crime yesterday took many dates and lined them up with phone activity and texts, etc., worth a watch imo. What you list here alone paints a damning picture. The prosecution has to do this kind of thing imo and do it very well so the jury doesn't have to line up everything. It's all there and I think it is proven but they need a bang on closing statement

Lori Hellis/Children of Darkness and Light (I think is what hers is called) was talking last night of how with all the money Rexburg spent they should have, as almost all do in huge cases, had someone in charge of just handling discovery and ensuring it is all provided to the defense, etc. This would have likely avoided the mess where they didn't provide such and the death penalty ended up off the table and the cases severed.

As to hiring someone to do the above, that led me also to a thought of what I'd do these days if I was a prosecutor or defense attorney (although I'd never be the latter, no way). Some can put down online detectives, YTers, etc. but it is a fact that people watch trials, many people have time to really put into it (not me any longer), people follow cases and pick up on things and correlate them etc. I'd have someone on full time who reads these threads here and elsewhere and checks out all the other things because it can give them their strategy, add to points to make in closings and in the cases, maybe find someone missing, etc. Many armchair detectives also search databases and court records and a lot more. Of course they'd have to read through all and skip the hearsay and rumors but a lot of good thoughts and real information exists and not only that, a rumor or talk of someone may lead to something or someone to check into in an investigation. That's exactly what LE has always done in investigations but in the old way, they would beat the streets, talk to informants, etc. It can both help solve cases and help present a case, do a closing, etc. and what is significant that the jury would react to as millions do in these forums when they weigh in.

Just my barely coffeed early morning thought. Probably not worded the best.

Tresir · Apr 30, 2023

GrandmaBear said:
Linda/It's a Crime yesterday took many dates and lined them up with phone activity and texts, etc., worth a watch imo. What you list here alone paints a damning picture. The prosecution has to do this kind of thing imo and do it very well so the jury doesn't have to line up everything. It's all there and I think it is proven but they need a bang on closing statement

Lori Hellis/Children of Darkness and Light (I think is what hers is called) was talking last night of how with all the money Rexburg spent they should have, as almost all do in huge cases, had someone in charge of just handling discovery and ensuring it is all provided to the defense, etc. This would have likely avoided the mess where they didn't provide such and the death penalty ended up off the table and the cases severed.

As to hiring someone to do the above, that led me also to a thought of what I'd do these days if I was a prosecutor or defense attorney (although I'd never be the latter, no way). Some can put down online detectives, YTers, etc. but it is a fact that people watch trials, many people have time to really put into it (not me any longer), people follow cases and pick up on things and correlate them etc. I'd have someone on full time who reads these threads here and elsewhere and checks out all the other things because it can give them their strategy, add to points to make in closings and in the cases, maybe find someone missing, etc. Many armchair detectives also search databases and court records and a lot more. Of course they'd have to read through all and skip the hearsay and rumors but a lot of good thoughts and real information exists and not only that, a rumor or talk of someone may lead to something or someone to check into in an investigation. That's exactly what LE has always done in investigations but in the old way, they would beat the streets, talk to informants, etc. It can both help solve cases and help present a case, do a closing, etc. and what is significant that the jury would react to as millions do in these forums when they weigh in.

Just my barely coffeed early morning thought. Probably not worded the best.

Are you saying my post and short timeline is worthy of making it into the prosecution summing up?

It certainly looks bad for them, even without any of the forensics. I have a feeling that if Lori goes down, Chad may cop a plea, otherwise he is looking at the death penalty IMO. His kids need to discuss this with him if they don't want to lose him as well as their mother. It may also save some attorney fees for them.

GrandmaBear · Apr 30, 2023

Tresir said:
Are you saying my post and short timeline is worthy of making it into the prosecution summing up?

It certainly looks bad for them, even without any of the forensics. I have a feeling that if Lori goes down, Chad may cop a plea, otherwise he is looking at the death penalty IMO. His kids need to discuss this with him if they don't want to lose him as well as their mother. It may also save some attorney fees for them.

I am saying that yes. Your timeline and things like it, they need to hone in on such and match up with texts, etc. I think the challenge will be not overdoing it as this could widen so far with things like Charles and other remarks and events and phone calls with others, etc. but yet giving plenty and yet simply and clear enough that the jury can easily see the timeline, the pattern, etc. I know I couldn't do it. It doesn't have to be in crayon, I'm sure the jurors aren't stupid, but just not as convoluted and sideways and every direction, etc. as everything in this case can be. I don't even have the words but you know what I mean, all do I'm sure. It needs to have EVERYTHING that matters and none of that that doesn't I guess is what I mean, and just be DIALED in. I think they will do it or already have as they've really taken the mess of jurisdictions, people, events, etc. and did a pretty orderly case and have done a great job imo.

Tresir · Apr 30, 2023

Tweet of the trial so far. "She rolled out of bed, dead." Comments are classic.

Kimster · Apr 30, 2023

Tresir said:
This is an updated article on the Daybell family interviews. There is a picture of Alex sitting on the kerb as well as a picture of Garth sitting with his siblings and they do appear to have a similar build.

A lot more of the interview and pictures appear in this update.

Chad Daybell's children claim he was "fooled in the worst, most deadly way possible" by Lori Vallow

For the first time together, the five children of the accused child murderer defend their father who, along with his new wife, is charged with the 2019 murders of JJ Vallow and Tylee Ryan.

www.cbsnews.com

Let’s say the kids are right, and Chad was fooled. It doesn’t matter! He still was a part in the murder of innocent lives. They need to wake up and smell the coffee.

Kimster · Apr 30, 2023

Tresir said:
Also, she was away visiting her family shortly before her death and was reportedly fine then, as well as attending fitness classes on her return.
So this coughing fit the night she died - i wonder when exactly that was because the TOD was estimated between 12 and 2 a.m. IIRC.

ETA here is an article that has the dates of her visit to Springfield.

Lori Vallow’s husband told ex her gran ‘visited’ him in vision before she died

THE husband of “Cult Mom” Lori Vallow told his previous wife that her dead grandmother had “visited” him just two weeks before her sudden death. Chad Daybell reportedly told…

www.thesun.co.uk

"Among them is Tammy, who died in her sleep aged 49 just two weeks before Chad married Lori in November of last year.

Speaking to East Idaho News, sources said Tammy made a trip to her parents' home on October 4 last year, just a day after Chad's purported visitation.

She had reportedly told Chad that she would like to make the trip, but was hesitant because she usually only travelled with him and their children.

She drove to her parents and spent one night with them before returning on October 5.

Just a few days later, on October 9, Tammy was getting out of her car on her driveway when a man in a ski mask appeared and shot at her several times with a paintball gun before running away.

Police believed the incident was a prank and no culprit was ever identified.

Tammy died just ten days later."

Based on the article -

Oct 3 Tammy's dead Grandma visits Chad
Oct 4 and 5 Tammy visits Springfield
Oct 9 incident with man in ski mask
Oct 19 Tammy's death

According to Tammy’s sisters testimony, Tammy said that Chad urged her to go see her family. I think it was his way of letting her family see her before she was killed. Just my opinion.

Kimster · Apr 30, 2023

RoundPeg said:
I've considered she's lucky she wasn't buried in the backyard btw. Morbid, but I think her "falling out of bed" was Chad dropping her body possibly.

Yeah, he was probably trying to stage the body.

Kimster · Apr 30, 2023

GrandmaBear said:
I wouldn't ask if I had a computer mouse at the moment but when was it again the racoon text? And where was Tammy at that time, I know she was away... I am very limited on a touch pad and am barely navigating. Lol.

The raccoon text was on September 9, I believe. Tammy was at work.

Kimster · Apr 30, 2023

Tresir said:
She was at work and Chad texted her on Sept 9th, I believe, saying he was burning some "limbs" and shot a raccoon while doing that so buried it in the pet cemetery. This would clearly cover for the disturbed earth in the pet cemetery as well as fresh cinders in the area too. Just look at these dates which seal Chad and Lori's fate IMO, especially the raccoon text, the ring purchase and the visit from dead Grandma.

Dates
Sep 9 Tylee's death, dismemberment, burning and burial. Raccoon text.
Sep 23 JJ's death and burial
Oct 2 failed shooting on Brandon
Oct 2 Lori purchases wedding ring
Oct 3 Tammy's dead Grandma visits Chad
Oct 4 and 5 Tammy visits Springfield
Oct 9 failed shooting by man in ski mask
Oct 19 Tammy's death
Oct 23 Tammy's funeral
Nov 5 beach wedding

3 murders, 2 attempted murders, a funeral and a wedding, all in less than 2 months.

Article re wedding ring purchase.

Lori Vallow bought wedding ring days before Chad Daybell's wife died

Lori and Chad tied the knot in Hawaii on November 5, less than two weeks after Tammy died on October 19. Wedding photos show Lori wearing a ring she apparently purchased on October 2.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I should’ve read ahead.

Kimster · Apr 30, 2023

Tresir said:
Are you saying my post and short timeline is worthy of making it into the prosecution summing up?

It certainly looks bad for them, even without any of the forensics. I have a feeling that if Lori goes down, Chad may cop a plea, otherwise he is looking at the death penalty IMO. His kids need to discuss this with him if they don't want to lose him as well as their mother. It may also save some attorney fees for them.

Agreed!

Kimster · Apr 30, 2023

Tresir said:
Tweet of the trial so far. "She rolled out of bed, dead." Comments are classic.

They should be able to tell by the state her body was in when they got there and how long it had been since she had passed. Didn’t someone say something about rigor mortis was present? Don’t quote me on that one. I think there’s going to be more testimony on her autopsy.

GrandmaBear · Apr 30, 2023

I don't know why but I just can't see either of these two pleading. I guess because they are so full of it and so entitled and special feeling that I seriously doubt either has faced the thought of life in prison and I feel they are convinced they will find a way out even without their portal...

I just can't see Chad doing it even if Lori is convicted but maybe I guess things may set in for real then.

I will say I am surprised their time in jail has overall been quiet. I'd more expect them to have caused trouble, attempted escape, made waves and statements about their innocence, etc. Maybe inside they are busy though manipulating and of course Chad had those thousands of phone calls...

I will say if the prosecution made any deal with Chad or her other than life (and honestly more than one life sentence imo), the public would be up in arms or at least I know I would be. I'm not sure actually that Boyce won't have to take death off the table for Chad as he did it for his co-conspirator. So why "deal" on that, make it happen and then he can try to deal lower from that which is what we DON'T want imo... The lower I mean.

It appears to me that Lori and her counsel or is beginning to seem that way, are more than willing to throw Chad under the bus. Lori Hellis again, last night, had a good point, well many. This may not have been on her show but when she was a guest on Surviving the Survivor, not sure which one it was on, I watched a couple or parts of a couple. She said it doesn't mean they've turned on each other, it goes on all of the time, and they even tell the other conspirator you blame and I'll blame you and both are fine with it and this as I said goes on a lot in such cases and it often or at least sometimes works for one if not both. We know that's true and in this case they even have another they can add to the mix that can't speak and that's Alex. This last remark is mine. I have paraphrased her. Because of this, if they get Boyce to remove the death penalty, I think Chad may roll the dice even if Lori is convicted. What would he have to lose, same as her right now with the DP removed? Because the State is not going to offer him less than life or I don't think they will as people would be irate over such. Also, the evidence is coming in far stronger on Chad in this trial and I get why people think that would make him plead too but I'm not so sure that will happen... The evil, cunning, sly, manipulative Chad comes across as some humble, modest non assuming naive country bumpkin and we know this as so many out there think a blonde middle aged woman beguiled him and seduced him until he didn't know what he was doing or thinking. Not the case. Not one bit imo. I think he counts on even more than Lori his ability to convince a jury... Or one member anyhow...

GrandmaBear · Apr 30, 2023

Kimster said:
They should be able to tell by the state her body was in when they got there and how long it had been since she had passed. Didn’t someone say something about rigor mortis was present? Don’t quote me on that one. I think there’s going to be more testimony on her autopsy.

I think the window of time of death given was something like midnight to 2 a.m. It's close to that anyhow, I heard the testimony, parts of it. That's why Chad had to change his story to his rolling over must have released her body to fall to the floor instead of sticking with his first story that she fell off the bed as she died. His time of death didn't work.

Despite this and many other things, no need for an autopsy was the decision. Unbelievable. Although the one I heard testifying is the one who got it wrong, she was giving the final findings, from the other pathologist, I believe the one on exhumation, etc. and she did have time of death about right.

I honestly think Chad was trying to move her most likely and he worried the thud awoke the kids so he called for Garth. Or he made her make a thud and planned the story for her falling out of bed as she died so Garth would believe it and witness it so he had a witness... Something on that order...

Rigor was present plus the one part that says warm the longest was cold, I think it was the stomach she said? Don't quote me on this part. Abdomen? One part of the body is the last to go cold anyhow and Tammy's was not warm and was cool to the touch. Plus rigor mortis.

Chad didn't do his homework. And they thought Alex couldn't do anything right....

GrandmaBear · Apr 30, 2023

Lori was so mad at Alex messing up with his shooting of Tammy but did she get mad at Chad for messing up? Nope, she goes off and marries him. Of course at that time she was I suppose happy is wife was dead (so he succeeded) and at that time he had gotten away with it...

What does she think of the bumblehead now?

Guess Who · Apr 30, 2023

GrandmaBear said:
I think the window of time of death given was something like midnight to 2 a.m. It's close to that anyhow, I heard the testimony, parts of it. That's why Chad had to change his story to his rolling over must have released her body to fall to the floor instead of sticking with his first story that she fell off the bed as she died. His time of death didn't work.

Despite this and many other things, no need for an autopsy was the decision. Unbelievable. Although the one I heard testifying is the one who got it wrong, she was giving the final findings, from the other pathologist, I believe the one on exhumation, etc. and she did have time of death about right.

I honestly think Chad was trying to move her most likely and he worried the thud awoke the kids so he called for Garth. Or he made her make a thud and planned the story for her falling out of bed as she died so Garth would believe it and witness it so he had a witness... Something on that order...

Rigor was present plus the one part that says warm the longest was cold, I think it was the stomach she said? Don't quote me on this part. Abdomen? One part of the body is the last to go cold anyhow and Tammy's was not warm and was cool to the touch. Plus rigor mortis.

Chad didn't do his homework. And they thought Alex couldn't do anything right....

And a body in rigor isn't going to just fall off the bed without help

JOSHUA "JJ" VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN, TAMMY DAYBELL, & CHARLES VALLOW: State of Idaho/Arizona vs. Lori & Chad Daybell *GUILTY*

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JOSHUA "JJ" VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN, TAMMY DAYBELL, & CHARLES VALLOW: State of Idaho/Arizona vs. Lori & Chad Daybell GUILTY