LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *GUILTY*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]

en.wikipedia.org

Murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

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www.crimewatchers.net

On Feb 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams & Liberty German were discovered in Delphi, #INDIANA. The suspect in their deaths is awaiting trial.

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant, though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." Even with a lot of media coverage, their murders remain unsolved.
www.crimewatchers.net www.crimewatchers.net
 
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GrandmaBear said:
you are a total PEACH. I will, right now and thank you for the direction to it. Because I've basically had it with reporting.
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That's probably all I will post for today as it is getting late here now. They haven't yet updated that link with the afternoon court session, I guess because they haven't been "let out" of the courtroom yet.

If you go back to that same link in a couple of hours they may have updated it by then with the afternoon session.
 
Tresir said:
www.wishtv.com

Delphi Murders trial: Day 6 live blog

Delphi Murders trial continues with testimony from Dr. Roland Kohr and Sarah Carbaugh. Allen accused of murdering Abby Williams and Libby German.
www.wishtv.com www.wishtv.com

Ok this is pretty good. Will edit out the images and unnecessary stuff.

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Home / News / Crime Watch 8 / Delphi Murders

Delphi Murders trial: Day 6 live blog​





by: Ashley Fowler and Jason Ronimous
Posted: Oct 24, 2024 / 07:06 AM EST / Updated: Oct 24, 2024 / 01:59 PM EST
INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — Thursday is the sixth day of testimonies in the trial of Delphi Murders suspect Richard Allen at the Carroll County Courthouse in Delphi.
Allen, 52, is charged with murder and murder while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping in the deaths of 13-year-old Abigail “Abby” Williams and 14-year-old Liberty “Libby” German. The girls’ bodies were found near the Monon High Bridge near Delphi on Feb. 14, 2017, a day after they went missing.
Allen was first investigated in 2017 and again in October 2022. After a second police interview, he was taken into custody.
The trial began Oct. 18 and was expected to continue through mid-November. Sixteen Allen County residents sit as the jury on the case.
Day 6 of the Delphi Murders trial was set to begin at 9 a.m. Thursday.
NOTE: The times listed in the blog headers are the times which the entries were added. Specific times for courtroom events will be listed in the entries if available.
For a brief summary of Day 5 in the Delphi Murders trial (Tuesday), scroll to the bottom of the page.
FL: 66YO FALLS OVERBOARD CRUISE SHIP
To view all of our previous trial coverage, click here.

Additional coverage on Wednesday from News 8​

11:38 a.m.​

Testimony from Kathy Shank​

Court was back in session today with the jury entering the courtroom at 9:06 a.m. The judge shared that the jury was able to access their phones, call their families and view work emails briefly last night. They have not seen any media coverage.
9:08 a.m. The state called Kathy Shank. Shank acted as a “secretary” for the investigation. She would take tipster’s names and information. Shank said she was surrounded by 50 or more law enforcement officers while working the investigation.
Shank told the jury she was given “bankers boxes” of reports related to the investigation and was asked to organize the reports. Eventually these reports took up five filing cabinets. Shank said she created a filing system with names of people of interest, tipsters, etc.
Shank told the jury that in 2020 she was asked to scan every file from the filing cabinets into an electronic database. She said it took her two years to do so. Shank told the jury she did not read the entire context of every file and she entered over 14,000 of them.
She told the jury that when investigators were moving their headquarters she came across some hand-written tips, one of them said a “Richard Allen Whiteman” had “self-reported being on the trails and girls had seem him at the same time.”
That tip was dated February 16, 2017.
Shank said she pulled the written tip about Allen being interviewed in 2017 and changed the file name to “Richard Allen”. She told the jury she made this discovery on September 21, 2022.
Shank told the jury that her job was not to decide if a tip should be followed up on, that she simply was tasked with organizing.
Under cross-examination by the defense, Shank said the mistake on Allen’s name was made before she joined the investigation. Defense attorney Andrew Baldwin asked Shank “There was no other tip, to your knowledge, that involved Richard Allen?” Shank replied “to my knowledge, no.” She told the jury there were so many tips that she couldn’t remember individuals.
Baldwin asked “But you would remember if there was a tip about a man covered in mud and blood walking on 300 North?” Shank said she could not remember specifics.
The jury asked Shank “How did you determine the name was incorrect on the file?” Shank replied that being from the area, she knew there was a Whiteman Drive.

Testimony from Dan Dulin​

At 9:59 a.m. the state called Dan Dulin to the stand. Dulin is a Captain with the Department of Natural Resources and has been a conservation officer for 26 years.
Dulin had worked across the state of Indiana but had worked in the Carroll County area for 10 years. He told the jury he became involved with the investigation on February 16, 2017.
Dulin said he was tasked with assisting with and following up on leads. He told the jury he received a lead on Richard Allen and he contacted Allen by phone. Dulin told the jury that he requested to meet with Allen at his home, then police headquarters. Allen refused and requested that they met at a grocery store parking lot.
Dulin said he met with Allen in a grocery store parking lot on 2/18/17. Dulin told the jury they met, spoke about the lead and Allen told him he was on the trails on February 13 between 1:30 and 3:30 p.m. He told Dulin he saw three girls at the Freedom Bridge.
Dulin said Allen told him he was clear that he parked at the old CPS building and walked to the Freedom Bridge and then to the high bridge. Dulin said Allen told him he was looking at a “stock ticker” while walking.
Dulin said he took handwritten notes which included Allen’s phone number. Dulin said he wrote up his notes into a Word document and turned it into investigators.
Dulin told the jury that in September 2022 he got a call asking if he remembered interacting with Richard Allen. Dulin said it didn’t sound familiar but said he would look through his records. He said he found his documents on his 2017 interview with Allen and found a fishing license for Allen and his wife Kathy. The licenses had contact information on them.
Dulin told the jury that Allen’s fishing license had his height listed as 5’4″, but it was changed in April of 2017 to 5’6″. Dulin also told the jury his weight was changed on his license to be lighter, 13 pounds were subtracted. Dulin said he thought it was uncommon for an adult to change their height two inches.
Prosecutor Nick McLeland asked Dulin if Allen was in the courtroom and Dulin described Allen.
At 10:35 a.m. defense attorney Brad Rozzi begins cross-examining Dulin. Rozzi said Allen called law enforcement in February. Rozzi said Allen suggested meeting at the grocery story because he was already on his way there.
Dulin said he cannot recall the appearance or demeanor of Allen during the meeting. Rozzi said the handwritten notes would be better evidence of the meeting than the electronic report and that Dulin said in a March 2024 deposition that he had “no independent recollection” of what Allen said to him in their 2017 meeting.
Rozzi said that anyone could purchase a fishing license for another person.
Dulin testified that he was also in charge of calling phone numbers that pinged off of cell towers during the time of the crime. He said he canvassed the crime scene the day before he met with Allen.
Dulin told the jury that while he was at the scene he found branches piled up with blood on them.
Rozzi asked Dulin if he saw deer standing in the woods hear the bridge, Dulin said there were. Rozzi asked if it is not uncommon to find shell casings in the woods.
Judge Gull stepped in and said to Rozzi, “If you’re going to impeach him, impeach him properly.”
Rozzi asked Dulin if he was familiar with “Smith and Wesson.” Dulin said he was.
At 11:06 a.m. McLeland asked Dulin about the credit card used to purchase Allen’s fishing licenses. Dulin replied that he did not know what username was used to purchase the licenses.
Dulin told the jury in re-direct by the defense that he has not thought of Allen between 2017 and 2022.
At 11:13 a.m. The jury asked Dulin “What was Allen’s hair like?” Dulin replied that he didn’t know.
Court took a break at 11:18 a.m.

Testimony from Steve Mullin​

Court is back in session at 11:35 a.m. as the state called former Delphi police chief Steve Mullin for the third time.
Mullin said he got a call from Richard Allen on Sept. 21, 2022, and then he reached out to Dulin to ask if there was any additional info. Mullin said Dulin forwarded information to him and Tony Liggett, and after learning there were two cars registered to Allen, he went to Hoosier Harvestore to look for them.
He told the jury that Tony Liggett went to the CVS and found Allen’s car and then they looked for it on the Harvestore footage.
Mullin said Liggett looked at the video and found the vehicle matching the description. The timestamp was 1:27 p.m. on Feb. 13, 2017.
Baldwin interjected, telling Mullin that “it’s only your opinion” that your car matches.
Mullin responded that he believes the car in the video was Richard Allen’s. He said the “general shape of the car was the same,” as were the taillights, bumper, rims (black sports rims with spokes).
The jury was shown a 9-second video of the vehicle as it passed from east to west, followed by close-ups of the car.
Some of the car’s major identifying features — including the license plate and VIN — were not visible on the security camera footage. The time on the security camera footage and info from Dulin’s meeting match up, according to News 8’s Kyla Russell.
Mullin said he and Liggett went to Richard Allen’s house on Oct. 13, 2022, and told him they wanted to ask questions about the Delphi investigation.
He told the jury Allen agreed to go to the police department and was taken there in an unmarked car and in plain clothes.
They arrived at the police station, where Mullin said he asked Allen what he was doing on Feb. 13, 2017.
Allen said he went to his mom’s house in Peru, returned to Delphi, and picked up a jacket, went to the trails around 12 p.m., and left at 1:30 p.m.
According to Mullin, Allen told police he drove his Ford Focus to the old DCS building, parked there, and went to the trails. He said he was wearing as a blue/black Carhartt jacket, blue jeans, and a skull cap.
Mullin said Allen told police he saw three girls on the bridge and was “looking at his stock ticker.” Allen then said one of the girls “appeared to be older” and that she was “babysitting.”
Mullin told the jury he showed Allen a photo of “Bridge Guy” and that Allen responded, “If the photo was taken with the girl’s camera, it couldn’t be him.”
The former police chief said Allen agreed to let him look at the phone, but then got angry and walked out of the interview. After that, Allen was taken back to his house.
Court took a lunch break at 12:06 p.m.
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Wow thnak you Tresir for point me to this. I had things in the beginning I was going to point out as how easily reporting, etc. can be screwed up but by the end, forgot a lot of them.

I am going to try to remember. Listen to Lauren's I linked. It is not in the same depth but is about this.

There are things I thought as reading each part that changed by the end and reading all of it. I think there are little nuances and discrepancies and what damage can be caused when reporters use on wrong word etc.

I am going to have to look back at it and remember. But first of all it is made to sound as if Dulin (been spelling it wrong I guess) followed up on a tip about RA. Dulin called him by phone folwoing up on a tip. In the way unclear reporting goes, maybe RA left a message but it actually sounds more like Dulin was follwong up on a tip from someone about RA, and taht's what news and lack of live coverage does so who knows... I thought RA self reported...

Then RA refused to meet at police headquarters or at his home. Sounds a bit controlling and bossy...My guess would be either of the two other options would alert his wife or the community if he was seen going into headquarters or police were at his home...

Listen to Lauren's, it is not as detailed as this but probably is so in a later live, but she said I think Kathy Shank was out of town when this happened and when she got back she jumped in and asked what she could do to help. She also said I believe that Kathy is CPS or DCF or some such. This is not atypical in a small town area. That never has BIG cases that turn out to be of national interest. It's just the norm every day, safe little community but for druggies I'm sure, some petty thefts, domestics, etc.

I come from what I'd think is a similar area and in recent years, the last ten? we had two huge cases most here would likely know of. and i'm no talking of ours, add another rare murder case.

And our LE is NOT used to handling such. Anyhow too not sidetrack in the ONE, way out in rural area, a constable/DNR person small town kind of police officer, one in one very small town, was the closest and responded. THIS is what I picture Dulin to be. of course everyone responded but it was miles upon miles for many, this guy was the closest. I'm not going to name the case but it was huge and a similiation was done or idea of the same on one of the big fictional crime shows, CSI maybe, can't recall.

Nothing was ever wrong there or done wrong but he was just a conservation officer, and small town one cop, kind of constable.

it is interesting that here it was never said he recorded, and I actually have doubted he did. Because it just is'nt how they are thinking...

What's more interesting is how RA demanded to meet at a grocery store parking lot and not at headquarters or his home and what is the truth about the tip, did RA report himself or did someone else. It's very unclear on that in this account...

I thought Dulin might be a snag but it sounds like here he was a pretty strong witness. The fishing licenses are very interesting, and again watch Lauren for interpretation and how it can vary between people reporting.

And more desperation by the D in someone else could have applied for them right and changed height, etc... And your account here mentions licenses for both him and wife Kathy...

It's kind of a stand alone remark where Gull interjects and said if you are going to impeach him, impeach him properly. WTF? And no more about it...

So then to the Mullin part. Mullin received a call FROM RA in 2022? Is THIS a typo?? Mistake?? And then he looked t Harvestore video, etc.? RA called him? Why?? WAs he alerted somehow (RA) that they were looking at him? These omissions or little mistakes in reporting can give an entirely different impression... I'd believe first that they tried to reach RA in finding the tip, etc. and that he was returning the call? This makes it sound as if RA reached out to the Chief and called first...

And these little things that can be big because one little mistake can make a world of difference if reported wrong.

I so appreciate you directing me to this post. And you have plenty going on but anytime you can to the important ones or want to, much appreciated. This was well worth the read. I've pretty much had it overall and am doing other sources if I get to it at all.

The fishing license things has me pretty darned curious I'll admit...
 
Tresir said:
That's probably all I will post for today as it is getting late here now. They haven't yet updated that link with the afternoon court session, I guess because they haven't been "let out" of the courtroom yet.

If you go back to that same link in a couple of hours they may have updated it by then with the afternoon session.
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I think I am going to skip trying to go back on anything and just watch Tom when today's session ends. And listen to it all and just stick to that. And skip trying to catch up here. I will get the whole day today from him. ASSUMING he got in.

Lauren also was going on if even they take a break, they go through the whole line thing again each and every time to get back in.

What Gull did here maddens me and she's on my sh*t list. The effects it is having imo are vast. And I can only thank God the jury by rules are not seeing such.
 
This is a continuation of the Wish TV link I posted upthread reporting the afternoon session.

The time at the top of each section is the time that testimony was added to the blog.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 6 live blog​




by: Ashley Fowler and Jason Ronimous
Posted: Oct 24, 2024 / 07:06 AM EST / Updated: Oct 24, 2024 / 05:08 PM EST



To view all of our previous trial coverage, click here.

​

4:03 P.M.​

TESTIMONY CONTINUES WITH FORMER DELPHI POLICE CHIEF STEVE MULLIN.​

Court resumed at 1:38 p.m. with defense attorney Andrew Baldwin cross-examining former Delphi Police Chief Steve Mullin.

Baldwin said to Mullin, “You lied to this jury, before lunch you lied to this jury.” Mullin responded “Is there a question?” Baldwin handed Mullin a copy of the October 13, 2022 interview with Allen. Baldwin asked Mullin to point out exactly where Allen said he may have gone westbound on 300N to get to the trails on Feb. 13, 2017.

Mullin responds that Allen said he was travelling in a direction that seemed like it could have been westbound.

Baldwin asks Mullin if he asked Allen if he went to the trails in a different way. Baldwin says this is because “they are desperate for Rick to have been going west.”

Prosecutor Nick McLeland objects over and over, saying Baldwin is impeding the questions with his opinions.

Baldwin says “words matter on the stand, correct? Especially if those words impact the timeline.”

Baldwin asks Mullin, “for your theory to work, Richard Allen’s car had to be at the CPS lot between 1:30 p.m. and 4:30 p.m.?” Mullin says he wasn’t giving direct quotes from Allen.

The jury asked Mullin “Were you in an interview with Mr. Allen where he stated he didn’t remember which way he took to the trail?” Mullin responded “yes.”

4:20 P.M.​

TESTIMONY OF CARROLL COUNTY SHERIFF TONY LIGGETT​

At 2:08 p.m. the state called Carroll County Sheriff Tony Liggett to the stand. Liggett tells the jury he was a detective in Feb. 2017.

Liggett tells the jury that when the tip came in from Kathy Shank’s lead, he wasn’t aware anyone had seen the witnesses on the trail, and that he thought that person could be bridge guy.

Liggett tells the jury about the process of altering the video on Libby’s phone. Liggett says the bridge guy video was “altered to be upright all the time.”

The prosecution shows the video to the jury again. Liggett describes what he hears in the video in the following way:

Abby: “Is he right here? Don’t leave me up here.”

Libby: “This is the path, that be a gun, there’s no path here.”

Bridge Guy: “Guys”

Girls: “Hi”

Bridge Guy: “Down the hill.”

Liggett tells the jury that he did research on Allen’s vehicles in 2022 and that he went to CVS and got photos of the car. Liggett says the car was “backed in” at the CVS and “backed in” at the CPS building.

Liggett tells the jury about finding Allen’s gun and ammunition and that he found another 40 caliber Winchester cartridge. Liggett said he also found more 40 caliber ammunition from a different brand.

Liggett tells the jury a blue Carhartt jacket was found.

At 2:33 p.m. defense attorney Brad Rozzi began his cross-examination of Liggett.

Rozzi asks about Liggett being involved in a contentious election in 2022, to which McLeland objected. Liggett responded that it “had nothing to do with me, it was about the murder of two little girls.”

Liggett is asked “do you acknowledge that there have been leaks in this investigation?” Liggett responds that there have been leaks but he wasn’t referring to just after the investigation started and said “some information got out, yes.”

Liggett said he did not check to make sure there were no cameras on the south side of the Hoosier Harveststore, he only retrieved video from cameras pointing at 300N.

Rozzi asked Liggett “you’re aware of the discrepancies in Sarah Carbaguh’s take?” “Is it possible you’re wrong?” “Is it possible that Sarah Carbaugh didn’t see anyone that day?”

Liggett tells the jury he agrees that the investigation was chaotic in the beginning and that the FBI worked with them and he knew he could call them.

Liggett tells the jury that “someone cleared that lead and it shouldn’t have been,” referring to the Kathy Shank lead. He tells the jury that it could be challenging to recall what happened in 2017.

Liggett tells the jury he believes Allen acted alone now, “before I was open to anything.”

Rozzi asked if the sound from the bridge guy video every came from Allen. Liggett says there’s no digital evidence that links Allen, but Allen was on his phone at that time on the bridge.

Liggett says “I don’t know the motive of why he (Allen) came forward.” Liggett says Allen was “hiding in plain sight.”

Rozzi questions Liggett about the Carroll County Jail and if Liggett has had a person charged with a violent crime there.

At 3:25 p.m., McLeland begins re-direct and asks Liggett questions about the ammunition in Allen’s home.
 
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That last post isn't quite so clear cut but i guess this is the problem when going by hand written notes of the testimony. Will be interesting to see what Tom reports.
 
Tresir said:
This is a continuation of the Wish TV link I posted upthread reporting the afternoon session.

The time at the top of each section is the time that testimony was added to the blog.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 6 live blog​




by: Ashley Fowler and Jason Ronimous
Posted: Oct 24, 2024 / 07:06 AM EST / Updated: Oct 24, 2024 / 05:08 PM EST



To view all of our previous trial coverage, click here.

​

4:03 P.M.​

TESTIMONY CONTINUES WITH FORMER DELPHI POLICE CHIEF STEVE MULLIN.​

Court resumed at 1:38 p.m. with defense attorney Andrew Baldwin cross-examining former Delphi Police Chief Steve Mullin.

Baldwin said to Mullin, “You lied to this jury, before lunch you lied to this jury.” Mullin responded “Is there a question?” Baldwin handed Mullin a copy of the October 13, 2022 interview with Allen. Baldwin asked Mullin to point out exactly where Allen said he may have gone westbound on 300N to get to the trails on Feb. 13, 2017.

Mullin responds that Allen said he was travelling in a direction that seemed like it could have been westbound.

Baldwin asks Mullin if he asked Allen if he went to the trails in a different way. Baldwin says this is because “they are desperate for Rick to have been going west.”

Prosecutor Nick McLeland objects over and over, saying Baldwin is impeding the questions with his opinions.

Baldwin says “words matter on the stand, correct? Especially if those words impact the timeline.”

Baldwin asks Mullin, “for your theory to work, Richard Allen’s car had to be at the CPS lot between 1:30 p.m. and 4:30 p.m.?” Mullin says he wasn’t giving direct quotes from Allen.

The jury asked Mullin “Were you in an interview with Mr. Allen where he stated he didn’t remember which way he took to the trail?” Mullin responded “yes.”

4:20 P.M.​

TESTIMONY OF CARROLL COUNTY SHERIFF TONY LIGGETT​

At 2:08 p.m. the state called Carroll County Sheriff Tony Liggett to the stand. Liggett tells the jury he was a detective in Feb. 2017.

Liggett tells the jury that when the tip came in from Kathy Shank’s lead, he wasn’t aware anyone had seen the witnesses on the trail, and that he thought that person could be bridge guy.

Liggett tells the jury about the process of altering the video on Libby’s phone. Liggett says the bridge guy video was “altered to be upright all the time.”

The prosecution shows the video to the jury again. Liggett describes what he hears in the video in the following way:

Abby: “Is he right here? Don’t leave me up here.”

Libby: “This is the path, that be a gun, there’s no path here.”

Bridge Guy: “Guys”

Girls: “Hi”

Bridge Guy: “Down the hill.”

Liggett tells the jury that he did research on Allen’s vehicles in 2022 and that he went to CVS and got photos of the car. Liggett says the car was “backed in” at the CVS and “backed in” at the CPS building.

Liggett tells the jury about finding Allen’s gun and ammunition and that he found another 40 caliber Winchester cartridge. Liggett said he also found more 40 caliber ammunition from a different brand.

Liggett tells the jury a blue Carhartt jacket was found.

At 2:33 p.m. defense attorney Brad Rozzi began his cross-examination of Liggett.

Rozzi asks about Liggett being involved in a contentious election in 2022, to which McLeland objected. Liggett responded that it “had nothing to do with me, it was about the murder of two little girls.”

Liggett is asked “do you acknowledge that there have been leaks in this investigation?” Liggett responds that there have been leaks but he wasn’t referring to just after the investigation started and said “some information got out, yes.”

Liggett said he did not check to make sure there were no cameras on the south side of the Hoosier Harveststore, he only retrieved video from cameras pointing at 300N.

Rozzi asked Liggett “you’re aware of the discrepancies in Sarah Carbaguh’s take?” “Is it possible you’re wrong?” “Is it possible that Sarah Carbaugh didn’t see anyone that day?”

Liggett tells the jury he agrees that the investigation was chaotic in the beginning and that the FBI worked with them and he knew he could call them.

Liggett tells the jury that “someone cleared that lead and it shouldn’t have been,” referring to the Kathy Shank lead. He tells the jury that it could be challenging to recall what happened in 2017.

Liggett tells the jury he believes Allen acted alone now, “before I was open to anything.”

Rozzi asked if the sound from the bridge guy video every came from Allen. Liggett says there’s no digital evidence that links Allen, but Allen was on his phone at that time on the bridge.

Liggett says “I don’t know the motive of why he (Allen) came forward.” Liggett says Allen was “hiding in plain sight.”

Rozzi questions Liggett about the Carroll County Jail and if Liggett has had a person charged with a violent crime there.

At 3:25 p.m., McLeland begins re-direct and asks Liggett questions about the ammunition in Allen’s home.
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Why are the defense attorneys being allowed to testify because that's what they are doing, a common practice?

Not asking you. Talking to the post and info.

RA couldn' recall which way he took to the trails? Uh huh.

The key one if news has it right though is Allen was on the bridge at that time on his phone. WOW. So is there evidence he was? Because that is huge.
 
Tresir said:
That last post isn't quite so clear cut but i guess this is the problem when going by hand written notes of the testimony. Will be interesting to see what Tom reports.
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No kidding. His is out. However, I was behind on all and did nothing and then fell asleep so haven't watched it yet. Did watch a second one of Lauren's today which caught me up on Sarah who imo was a stellar witness from all I heard although any witness standing up for oneself is often called combative or difficult.

Only now up and seeing part of today's, haven't caught up on all BUT some. Doing laundry at night, that's a first ever.

I am going to watch Tom's, had a nap and am fresh for it. Everyone knows who Nate is, and Tom is doing a Nate but without the benefit of keyboard or tweeting, etc. He is simply covering all said and testified to.

Nate does the same. Not opinion, just coverage. And again, almost everyone knows Nate's coverage of Daybell.
 
RoundPeg said:
BTW, Mr. Westerman apparently completed the terms of his pre trial agreement and charges are dismissed.
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Thank you for the info. Personally I think there was a lot more to all of that but I know you are just giving the info.

Lol just dawned on me, so he can be "helping" now again?

This sh*t and this case... :thud:

Trying for some lightness...

I think I said earlier thank goodness the jury isn't exposed to all the b.s...
 

Delphi murders: Misfiled report from 2017 put Allen in investigators’ sights in 2022​

As Day 6 of testimony in the Delphi murders trials began, the state began to lay the groundwork for its case against Richard Allen.

On Thursday, jurors learned how Allen became associated with the case.

Misfiled report leads to scrutiny​

The first witness was Kathy Shank, a retired DCS worker who volunteered to help with administrative duties like organizing files and tips into a database. She estimated she handled about 14,000 tips related to the Delphi murders case. She told the court she volunteered on the case because she wanted to help.

On Sept. 21, 2022, she came across a file folder that was not with the others she was managing. Inside was a report with the name “Richard Allen Whiteman.” The report indicated that Allen was on the Monon High Bridge on the day of the murders.

She immediately notified Tony Liggett, lead investigator on the case and the current Carroll County sheriff. Shank noted that the tip sheet said “cleared” and wasn’t sure why Allen’s name was entered incorrectly as “Richard Allen Whiteman.”

The discrepancy surrounded Allen’s address, which was located on Whiteman Drive. Shank determined the name on the tip was incorrect, with “Richard Allen” being the person’s name and “Whiteman” referring to his home address.

Shank told the court the report caught her attention because she recalled three girls reported seeing a man on the bridge and thought there was a “possible correlation.”

During cross examination from defense attorney Andrew Baldwin, Shank said she never saw any other tips regarding Richard Allen or “Richard Allen Whiteman.” She simply thought the report was “something to look in to.”
 
I haven't read sh*t here in the last day and a half but I am going to say one thing. Tom is saying it too. THEY ALL ARE. You can leave to pee on a ten minute break and not have to eat back into line to get a seat. And is tired.

Think about it, you go to pee and someone else that wants in gets in line that already peed and hasn't been in there.

I\'ve never seen such stupidity and such a ruling in any case ever. And how much time does sthat take for court staff, etc. and loss of court time?

Really efficient. You'd think for over 4.5 mill you could do a lot better.

Yes, I am dropping this wherever it lands. Lauren has said it, the reporter RP went on about she has a life and kids and Tom has said it.

Judge is on my sh*t list big time. This decision is affecting this big time. I don't mean that in a threatening way whatsoever, they do not need to come for me. I STILL agree with most of her decisions but coverage was a BAD ONE.

Even those in the courtroom can't hear the questions and answers at times and you name it.

This will land where it will. Love everyone here and would love to discuss but I have to just stick to the fullest coverage I can find.
 
GrandmaBear said:
I think that's about where I left off, that article and I was reading backwards by then, up from the most recent post.

I don't even have the words for the reporting. I actually thought I was seeing some good reporting and I guess some is as far as traditional news goes. I don't know. I am not going to catch up and I can't keep up with nightly Tom's either as much as I want to and that's what I would do if I could at this point.

The things being reported by the less than responsible ones are so not accurate and the ones by the responsible ones are lacking SO MUCH and just hitting what they think is key.

I guess this is what happens when we don't have anything live or reporters or even responsible YTers like Nate (and yes he is also a YTer, not just a news person) able to type times and notes all day and tweet out etc. even if they can't until break and then they also don't lose their darned SEATS.

We are used to basically question to answer coverage of each witness pretty much even when we can't watch. And believe me even then you are not getting the whole story. I've went and watched witnesses I've read Nate's Tweets on in the Daybell trial you were so great about posting each day, I kept up on breaks by reading those but if you actually then go watch the witness (or hear them since they didn't show them by camera) testify, you will learn things even Nate missed... There is NOTHING like watching the actual testimony yourself. And plenty including myself when I can't do that base their comments and opinions on the coverage and what they think is what happened and never watch or even TRY to watch a single witness if live anyhow...

As to most traditional news or reporters maybe they need to stick to what they are really here for any longer and made to do and that is to give biased political coverage and cover only politics. I've been done with such for a long time but often that's all we have and in this case it certainly is and they just are not someone trying to get out ALL of what is going on in the courtroom.

I really want to stay up with discussion here because we all care about it and have for a long time and waited for this but it's just not accurate coverage. That's on no one here. I feel like I'm hearing 2 different cases and watching two different cases as of last night. I was starting to notice it the night before...

I'm not touting Tom to tout Tom. I don't think he even realized what I am seeing. He's NO crime follower in general and I think this is the first trial he has ever watched, seriously. He is astounded by things like any newbie to a courtroom. BUT he is the type that is giving every single question and answer of a witness, every objection, every by play. It's just who he is and how he is. I know of no one else doing that nightly. Whether he will be able to keep it up I don't know and I already can't keep up even if I just only watched him and did not try to catch up with everyone here who I want to with because we all care about this case.

I'd even have to go back to finish my remarks on that last article, the one I am responding to here.

While it is far from accurate, they say more than many have.

I've been done with traditional news for more years than I can count and if I wanted to be reminded of some of the reasons, I have been, in spades. And I was done before most even realized what was going on and I'm not talking in here, I'm talking out in the world. And for good reason.

I come from maybe one of the last generations who everyone above us and our parents considered news to be fact. News is NEWS and let me tell you my mother is still that way. IF the news channels she watches says it, then it is fact.

And I don't care which one one is talking of or their slant even in politics, it isn't the purpose, to report truth. And they are failing and have been for a long time. It is like how many people go to the theater any longer to see some box office hit? Actually how many are there these days you'd bother with...

People like Vinnie, Nancy Grace, and even some MSM are learning late in the game to do the YT angle or other things but they are still ingrained with the sensational, not up on their facts and more. Nate is quality. Tom is quality. One has to pick their sources. Grizzly is a hard pass. She started out seeming to be but she's not. I could go on.

I don't even know my point any longer other than even what I said and meant about what is good reporting here by a few, better than most, and no bias, is not nearly what is going on in that courtroom. And they HAVE to DO that. Get something out, and LATE due to Gull's rules, and pick the short and best points or only do the length they can get out.

Then we hear the excuses it's not the only thing they have to cover. True. It's hard because they have to hand write and BE THERE or get NOTES from someone from their network that is THERE. True. And then form an article and pick and interpret or even from their own notes or memory. True. And they have lives and kids or whatever. True. And the world or trial does not stop for them or their schedule. True.

But then you have Tom who jumps on live with all of his notes and fresh memory and goes through it all each night. I don't know if he will be able to keep it up but it's like hearing an entirely different case. And he is just giving the questions and he answers in testimony.

And then back to news you have the ones, the less responsible that are twisting. That thing of how the eyewitnesses said everything RA is NOT is so misleading. Go listen to the actual questions and answers. Well we can't, but you can hear someone cover them question by question and answer by answer.

I have waited for this as we all have and my God, the families and I honestly never thought I'd say this but I'm not sure I am going to be able to continue it and I was committed to this one. I'm sure a few are happy to hear that lol.

I'm going to try to a point to discuss here but as of right now I am not caught up and don't intend to try and I feel reading links and news anyhow are not going to give me a full or even close to it picture and I'm not going back and I'm not reading every link. I was doing so but I am finding such a contact with full coverage and traditional news that again I feel like I am reading or watching two different cases.

And this part is going to sound like a broken record but what Gull did here is such a disservice to this entire case as to facts and coverage, even for family who maybe can't be there. And has created nothing but trouble. I even have to agree with @Cousin Dupree on this one it is a bad look. I don't tend to believe it was done for the same reasons but I'm not decided either. The people in court can't even hear some of the questions and answers so the 4 mill plus really made it great didn't it...

I can tell you this too and I think I said it or alluded to it last night, the defense is testifying as all do. They put false facts in their questions. I gave the example of when you were in Dodge why didn't you do this, but you were never in Dodge. That's what they did with the younger witness. I didn't even finish listening to Tom give every question and answer as it sent me so over the top I was done and of course no hint of that anywhere here. And again that's not at anyone here, it is at the coverage by news.

It's like back to the fly or critter thing as well. We are simply getting a blizzard of b.s. and putting false facts in questions and if anyone wonders why I detest defense attys for the most part well there ya go. It shouldn't be a game and a Hollywood fake drama, it's people's lives on both sides. And then one has reporters and the public who can't see between the lines and beyond such tactics. And it also assumes the jurors can't and are dumb.

I'd say most reporters are. Thankfully most jurors that would give up their time probably know better, anyone younger would be ranting about they can't serve because the hours and time needed don't revolve around their schedule or that of their kids and not want to serve.

Okay. It turned into a rant and I've read not a thing.

I may well let this trial go on, end and then go back and watch all of Tom at my leisure over the next year or so and that bites as I waited for this as we all have. IF he makes it through.

Imo this should end traditional news, much should have by now. Let them just stick to the paid agenda. And again, here have been some pretty good reports, considering it is traditional news but it is nowhere CLOSE to full coverage.
Click to expand...

BBM

:thud:
 
And the rare time, less and less, I bounce in if anyone thinks I have seen the last how many posts, uhm no. Or links.

I just land where I land.

And am not even doing that much.

I'm sure that can be proven... Lol. Haven't looked I don't think at another case here all day either or at least since way earlier.

Lol I'm seeing more and more reason for withdrawal and rehab. But not from what some would think...

I'm dialing out and down.

Seeing some out is all.
 
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