LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *GUILTY*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]



Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]

Murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

On Feb 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams & Liberty German were discovered in Delphi, #INDIANA. The suspect in their deaths is awaiting trial.

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant, though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." Even with a lot of media coverage, their murders remain unsolved.

www.crimewatchers.net

 

[Cousin Dupree]

All of them. They are all on tape and documented - see post 9054 above.

I meant how many of those are actually true from RA.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Tom never watched anyone else's news, lives or reporting all the while he attended. Think he is finding out now how junk. His chat tonight was SO worth it, @Tresir. highly recommend a listen, to anyone, wondering. I don't push many, but mention but this one I would.

Now here's another thing have we heard this one?? Bob Motta,Defense Diaries, waltzes into court every morning about 8:30, bypasses the line, because the defense gives him a seat of theirs, say WHAT?

COuld the families take in someone they want like that for one of their seats...?

Also anyone Tom has recommended watching he doesn't know if good just is decent, doesn't know, doesn't watch and turned people onto others when he left.

A LOT more though beyond this kind of stuff.

Interesting to me that the D has a YTer saved a seat... Every single day. I won't ask if he was one leaked to as I already know the answer. Imo.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Not caught up here at all, just to be clear. Just listening to an unbiased voice of sanity lol.

 

[Tresir]

I don't think the defense is trying to get sympathy. I think they are trying to show the jurors that RA was not mentally capable of confessing and in his frame of mind he would pretty much say anything.

I don't know how its going to go over with the jury but in my opinion that is what the defense is trying to do and who knows maybe they've done that. Since no one other than the jury has seen it I guess we'll have to see how it goes over.

Is it true that they took him off of his medicine? (Prozac is it?) I mean would they have done that just take him off of it and not wean him off of it?

The confessions he made revealed info only the killer would know so they do appear to be real. I havent seen anything about Prozac. Is there a link mentioning that? Maybe i have missed that.

 

[Tresir]

I meant how many of those are actually true from RA.

All of them because he revealed info only the killer would know.

 

[Tresir]

Tom never watched anyone else's news, lives or reporting all the while he attended. Think he is finding out now how junk. His chat tonight was SO worth it, @Tresir. highly recommend a listen, to anyone, wondering. I don't push many, but mention but this one I would.

Now here's another thing have we heard this one?? Bob Motta,Defense Diaries, waltzes into court every morning about 8:30, bypasses the line, because the defense gives him a seat of theirs, say WHAT?

COuld the families take in someone they want like that for one of their seats...?

Also anyone Tom has recommended watching he doesn't know if good just is decent, doesn't know, doesn't watch and turned people onto others when he left.

A LOT more though beyond this kind of stuff.

Interesting to me that the D has a YTer saved a seat... Every single day. I won't ask if he was one leaked to as I already know the answer. Imo.

Very interesting. I haven't watched any of Tom's but will if i get the chance. Is he still there for the rest of the trial? I thought he was giving the D a miss.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

All of them because he revealed info only the killer would know.

When? All I've heard so far is I did it.

 

[GrandmaBear]

When? All I've heard so far is I did it.

You have been following this case haven't you? the van, the fact the girls throats were slit. I'm sure tresir will be happy to answer this so I'll leave it for her. I will say though she's outlined it before and I guess you missed it.

And I can't help it, lol, you are saying now that "you" did it?

 

[GrandmaBear]

Wasn't that search warrant re Ron Logan composed by that FBI person?

That document was such a crock!
I remember finding it hard to believe that a judge actually signed-off on it.

I missed this one of your last night, think I left and went to catch up on the day first instead. So you actually mentioned this before I did in a reply to one of your others lol or so it seems. Not quite awake yet lol.

It was a crock. I've outlined why here in the thread many a time in the past. You know, some outside Delphi/Carroll LE (one or two in also if I recall correctly) were bent on Os, and the F B I got bent on Logan... I think I'd want some of these people/agencies off the case too/out of the case too.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Especially when considered with what's now known, info from the former DA is fascinating.
I don't know precisely when this interview took place but it's a least several years old and I may have already posted it but I'm not sure.

Started to watch this but had to give it up for time and trying to stay up on the day's events etc. I think I've seen it in the past. Not sure I will get time. Any key points you can share?

 

[Tresir]

When? All I've heard so far is I did it.

He knew their throats were slit, he knew they weren't sexually molested, he knew when and where they were killed, he said he covered them with sticks, he mentioned the white van which is what made him kill them, he knew he racked a bullet. Thats just seven things from his confessions alone. How many do you need to be convinced? This POS now wants absolution so he can go to heaven. I don't think he will get his wish. He is already in hell. Maybe if he had confessed seven years ago and pled guilty, there would be a chance but he chose to keep quiet and carry on with his life and socialising instead. Seven things, seven years easy to remember i guess.

 

[GrandmaBear]

I think the investigation was a hot mess from day 1 until basically now. I'm embarrassed. I'll just blame the FBI. I honestly did not see the entire mess until trial started.

However, I think based on the evidence presented in court, he is guilty. The van detail did it for me.

As an aside, I think Saturday's videos would be better used in an 8th amendment suit against the State of Indiana. Like I said, I'm embarrassed.

And I was comfortable with guilt even before trial (I'm not a juror and can do that lol) but yes trial has only added to that for me. The confessions, the van, etc. Even though you think the investigation was a hot mess, and I'll say it was definitely not perfect, and with some very unfortuate things, I too said that an imperfect investigation does not equate to the defendant not being guilty necessarily. There is plenty here despite that.

It is though a good lesson and not the first case where I hope LE everywhere is paying attn as to they need to be on their sh*t and better, SOME of them anyhow.

I could sidetrack into I think some things have gone too far these days as to where a D can go or things like what should really be considered exculpatory evidence and a ton of other things but that would be a more generalized topic and not needed right now.

By the way I saw someone say last night the voice comparison I had seen that I could not recall WHAT voice sample they used, way back when, where it was dead on for me that it WAS RA. It was a chair lift video or the sound from such, with Kathy. I haven't went back and found it but the minute I heard that, I knew it was right and that's the one I heard. For me, I've had that for months, a year, more? Can't recall and it was one heck of an add on to what already was enough. Been very clinched ever since. The voice was made a thing in this trial but NOT to the point I thought it would be. Perhaps in closing...?

And I'm sorry to her, but it also tells me KA knows this is HER husband, that BG is. His mother does as well. Yet they sit there hearing him confess and entirely deny such. Smh.

I think the videos and the mental health eval are both to make the jury think the confessions can't be trusted, to feel for RA, and to find him NG with the added on thing of an appeals record or as you say maybe a suit against the State. Can I ask are you listening to someone espousing that thought? Just wondering as there's a lot out there and it isn't something I hear mentioned much, but then I hardly watch all.

Just catching up on some of yesterday's posts before the ones about the day's testimony, etc. this morning.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Well I don't know which cook it was but somebody didn't recognize that info pertaining to anyone who was actually there that day was crucial info that was to be correlated with other such info.

Agree. Even sending out people to cover the tips and get info seems to have been probably directed by some head cook or chef lol. The F B I with all their help? Local head? Who knows. and then the info coming back seems to have not been vetted or organized well. Just one of many examples. I'd imagine people like Doolin just figure the superiors have it, know what they are doing etc. Since he testified, I'm really not putting as much on him any longer as I used to. I mean it should have been ensured who was going out, how they were to do it, etc. Given the needed equipment even. Not so casual maybe... But then casual with such may be a practice so that people WILL come forward, who knows... Not even sure of my point.

Funny though that despite all, I still see plenty that equates to his guilt and thank goodness. And can only hope the jury does too. However, I do have to say they are not getting all the context and there's a lot of lines to read between with some. Not that they are to read between the lines. What I mean is they hear something and then there are arguments and sidebars and probably things ahead of trial agreed could not come in, and then they get this chunk missing, and it's obvious there are things NOT being told or shared. Not sure I've ever seen a trial where that was THISSSS obvious, and hopefully is to the jury as well, that they are NOT getting a full picture always.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Even if you were in the courtroom you'd still be unable to figure it out. The prosecution is not being truthful about much, IMO.

Yes, that's your opinion as you did note, with the IMO. Mine differs totally. Just for the record here. Most of the mistakes made in this case, were made in the field, not by the team of P for one thing. They are hardly all in cahoots and over years on end. The P is hardly involved until a case is to be brought or to see if enough to be charged, etc. Anyhow, respectfully disagree.

It's the D who is testifying falsely in what are to be questions is another thing.

THAT was mentioned last night in two shows I watched by those who attended or had been attending (Tom is no longer there, but saw it for sure many a time).

I don't know if I ever said either but some time back he said NM is the one with his questions and such that is the best at it. Best job in the courtroom, etc. of any of the P or D team.

Anyhow, we are not getting a full picture at all ever which is why I go and never even finish some to get the fuller picture of just all the questions and answers, to judge for myself. I've seen a ton of selective and biased reporting not just now, but throughout this case, and unfortunately many fall for it and never go try to get the bigger picture. Some of the questions and comments I saw in one the other night were downright dumb and clearly the people had not followed or take just one or two remarks or things and come up with their own false picture of the entire case, etc.

I'm talking generally now, NOT about you at all.

We aren't able to see any of it! But even if we were some wouldn't bother, some wouldn't have the time (me included) and some wouldn't try to when they had time, and some who have nothing but time wouldn't bother either (not me). And again, I'm talking out there, and generally. You should have seen some of the comments. Not nasty, just clueless, you['d have even called some out even seeing this opposite of how I do.

Anyhow, just some general catching up here as I didn't last night. This is going to be over in the next week or two. And this jury certainly has a job. Tom can't see 12 or even more than most voting NG and I agree, granted the D isn't done yet but he said there's so much they'd have to ignore and he was in the courtroom, he'd be flabbergasted. Even if the jury hangs, I can say this with some certainty, this case will head to trial once again, it is not going to be dropped and no matter how one looks at it I think it is a very fair educated guess that it is not going to end in RA's freedom. I'm curious, does anyone here think he will get a full NG verdict? No way. BEing in the courtroom has decided a few I know of who hadn't decided, and they've decided on guilt. More than one.

I guess he could at that point try to deal...

There are also several charges here, and a jury doesn't have to find him guilty on all. Or not innocent on all. Just posting that out.

And again, just some overall catching up. And, of course, we don't have to agree.

 

[Sunburst]

I completely agree with you. I don't see the point of it either unless they are pursuing some sort of MH defence or looking ahead for appeal grounds.

The closest thing Indiana has to a MH defense is a "guilty but insane" plea. There is no "Not guilty by reason of insanity" loophole. The "guilty but insane" laws were passed in the 1980's after the attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan in 1981. Indiana was the first in the nation to pass such a law. It has held up under court challenges, and other states subsequently adopted the same type of law, using Indiana's law as a model. Plus, juries rarely buy the "but I was insane defense". So if the defense tries to pull that, they are SOL. Indiana is also a death penalty state.

 

[Guess Who]

The closest thing Indiana has to a MH defense is a "guilty but insane" plea. There is no "Not guilty by reason of insanity" loophole. The "guilty but insane" laws were passed in the 1980's after the attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan in 1981. Indiana was the first in the nation to pass such a law. It has held up under court challenges, and other states subsequently adopted the same type of law, using Indiana's law as a model. Plus, juries rarely buy the "but I was insane defense". So if the defense tries to pull that, they are SOL. Indiana is also a death penalty state.

A death penalty state but they didn't ask for the death penalty on this one, did they? (Not arguing, just stating)

 

[GrandmaBear]

I have always thought he did it ever since he was arrested. The only thing i would like to hear more about is the Peru
connection.

The voice, the clothes, the bullet, the witnesses, his own words and confessions have done it for me and i believe him guilty ATM. However, we have not yet heard his defence, so i am reserving judgement until i have heard that; (sorry, not going to hear it obviously, but i mean once i have read the reporting of the D witnesses) but TBH I don't believe my opinion is going to change at all. The D have an uphill battle to convince me and the jury, i believe.

Mine either. And no one can change the voice. There's a lot and they can try to create whatever they want, TRY anyhow, on all the other things, and create some sn*w or even a blizzard, but they can't change his voice. There's so much for me.

And same here, I will admit the D is not done but I think it pretty easy to see where they are going and I doubt they will change my mind either.

From most accounts, this jury is not falling asleep and ALL are paying good attention, they are asking questions and this will be in their hands.

You know it's interesting on voices. Because I've become at work when I hear a voice and I mean across a busy, sometimes noisy environment, like how many feet behind me, many, many feet across the way but I can't see them, I know who it is. When the intercom is used, the store speaker, I know who is saying it even if in another department I can't see. Of course we have new employees all of the time and I wouldn't know THEIRS.

The voice (among other things) is going to be HUGE for the jury. Imo it is one thing that will clinch it. That also seals the timeline.

It also tells me that KA, his mom and daughter all know it is him. Anyone who has heard it (me) knew it immediately with the chairlift video and anyone who has listened to him for hours or his phone calls knows it, etc. Of COURSE they know it.

One can put it down to denial but the other possibility is they don't care, they think he had some kind of moment where he lapsed and did something and they don't think he should have to go away for it but this too is imo their own denial and perhaps enabling... They are going to give it one effort and hurrah to try to save him from his deed. I'm sorry but it seems to be a family that is full of this kind of thing and treatment of him but on the other hand he kind of runs it, doesn't he... Probably not all will get what I mean there, some will... All about RA...

Anyhow, that's a start to a sidetrack and so will stop there. Just some general catching up and thoughts.

Little doubt here either, hasn't been for a long time and more clinched now than ever but I already was.

 

[GrandmaBear]

This is an article detailing the witness testimonies from 29th and 30th October. I don't remember reading these before or i somehow missed the importance of them, which is very possible. They are from RA's suicide companions and the warden.

Delphi murders suspect allegedly told psychologist he wanted to apologize to Abby, Libby's families

"I killed Abby and Libby. I am sorry." is what the suspect reportedly told a clinical psychologist while in jail.

abc7chicago.com

Delphi murders suspect allegedly told psychologist he wanted to apologize to Abby, Libby's families​

Allen reportedly told prison staff he killed the girls to give his family "more time to be free."
ByJeremy Edwards and Emily Shapiro, ABC News
Wednesday, October 30, 2024 9:33PM

Delphi murders suspect allegedly confessed multiple times in jailDelphi murder suspe...Show more
DELPHI, Ind. -- Richard Allen's alleged jail confessions continued as the main topic on Wednesday.
Libby, 14, and her best friend Abby Williams 13, were walking along a hiking trail in rural Delphi when their throats were cut and they were left in the woods on Feb. 13, 2017. Their bodies were found the next day.
Allen was arrested in 2022 and pleaded not guilty to murder. Allen was held at the Westville Correctional Facility for 13 months after his arrest.
A clinical psychologist who worked closely with Allen after his arrest in testified Wednesday morning.
Doctor Monica Wala was employed as the lead psychologist for the Indiana Department of Corrections.
Defense attorney Brad Rozzi established that Wala had long followed the Allen's case on podcasts, YouTube and Facebook, and had participated in true crime forums.
Wala shut down her social media accounts down after someone pointed out she was following the case so closely.
Wala said she first met Allen in November 2022, and he was frequently on suicide watch. Wala testified they didn't initially discuss the girls' murders, and she urged Allen not to talk to others about the case.
On April 5, 2023, Wala said Allen confessed to the crime by saying, " I killed Abby and Libby. I am sorry."
She said Allen also went on to say that he made sure the girls were dead, so they didn't suffer. Allen told her he also wanted to apologize to the girls' families.
Allen allegedly told the psychologist he had a sex addiction and his intentions with the eighth-grade girls were sexual.
The clinical psychologist testified that Allen claimed he molested his sister and experimented sexually with children his age when he was a kid.
The suspect said he saw the girls on the trail and followed them to the bridge. Allen said he did something to his gun and thought that was when the cartridge, which has been a key piece of evidence, came out.
That's when he ordered the girls "down the hill" and wanted to sexually abuse them. But he was startled by a person or van, and that's when Allen ordered the girls across the creek, allegedly slit their throats, and then covered their bodies with tree branches.
RELATED | Delphi murders trial: Extended video from victim's phone played in court
Allen said after he killed the girls, he walked to his car and continued to live his life as normal until his arrest.
Wala noted that Allen appeared to be "relieved" after he gave his confession.
The last testimony of the morning was Wala talking in more detail about Allen's overall mental state, describing it as "fragile" when he arrived at Westville.
Court is set to continue on Wednesday afternoon for day 11 of the double-murder trial.

Allen's alleged prison confessions​

On Tuesday, prison staff testified about Allen's multiple confessions and behavior while behind bars.
John Galipeau, a former warden of the Westville Correctional Facility, took the stand on Tuesday.
Allen's attorneys have repeatedly argued he was treated poorly there and called a "baby killer."
Galipeau testified Allen was allowed to shower three times a week, provided three sets of clothing, had access to tablets and was allowed recreation time five days a week in an indoor room.
It was also revealed that Allen was on suicide watch.
Galipeau told jurors on March 5, 2023, Allen wrote a request for an interview with him.
In the request it said he wanted to confess to killing Abby and Libby.
The written note said, "I am ready to officially for confess killing Abby and Libby. I hope I get the opportunity to tell the families I'm sorry."
Galipeau also told jurors that Allen confessed to disposing a box cutter in the dumpster behind the CVS where he worked in Delphi.
Allen said he worked at CVS since 2013, and before that for Walmart for 10 years.
Galipeau said Allen was quiet for the first month at the prison and began acting "erratic" after he got mail from his attorneys. He said Allen began washing his face in the toilet, using the bathroom in his cell, tearing up mail and eating paper.
Several other correctional officers at Westville also testified about the multiple times Allen confessed to the murders.
Correction Officer Michael Clemons told jurors he was a "suicide companion" for Allen. He was assigned to record everything Allen said and did while on suicide watch.
Clemons told the court on April 6, 2023, Allen confessed to killing the girls.
Clemons said he logged in his notes that Allen said, "I'm so glad no one gave up on me after I killed Abby and Libby." Clemons said Allen also said, "I, Richard Matthew Allen, killed Abby and Libby by myself. No one helped me."
Clemons said Allen would also shout to other inmates, "I'm not crazy, I'm only acting like I'm crazy."
During cross-examination, Clemons testified he never felt Allen's behavior was genuine.
Defense attorney Brad Rozzi asked Clemons, "Can prison get to a man?" Clemons admitted, "Yes it can."
Correction Officer Ethan Drang also took the stand and told jurors that Allen confessed to him on April 5, 2023.
Drang said Allen told him, "I think coming to prison cured me of my depression and anxiety."
Correctional Officer Michael Roberts was also a suicide companion assigned to Allen.
Roberts had a detailed log of the confessions he said he heard.
READ ALSO | Delphi murder trial: Libby's blood was likely mixed with her tears, expert says
On April 7, 2023, Roberts wrote at 12:34 p.m. Allen said, "Dear Lord, forgive me for molesting Abby, Libby, Kevin, and Chris. I want to confess. I know a lot more."
On April 23, 2023, Roberts wrote in his log that at 2:00 p.m. Allen said, " I killed Abby & Libby. My wife wasn't involved. I want to confess."
Then on April 26, 2023, Roberts wrote that Allen said, "Can I talk? Can you listen I killed Abby & Libby? How do I prove I'm insane?"
On June 18, 2023, Roberts noted that at 3:30 p.m. Allen said, "Why are you doing this? Do you know God? Do you know why I'm here? I killed Abby and Libby."
Roberts said he saw outrageous acts of misbehavior to get the attention of guards who were watching. He went on to say he believed Allen was acting up more than having a mental health crisis.
On cross-examination Roberts was pressed on Allen's behavior behind bars. Defense attorney Brad Rozzi asked if Roberts had any formal mental health training, in which Roberts replied only what the state provided.
Roberts revealed that Allen began smearing feces over his cell and would put it on his face.
Roberts also testified that he remembers Allen hit his head on the wall for a long time at one point making his face black and blue.
He also told the court that Allen would refuse food at points for long periods of time.
Roberts admitted that some of Allen's "suicide companions" were going back to the general population at the prison and spreading information about the murder suspect.
Correctional Officer John Miller also testified; Allen expressed his desire to "burn in hell" while confessing to the killings.
Miller testified how Allen said he molested his sister and may even touched his daughter.
Miller testified Allen had an erection while talking about all of this.
As Miller testified on Tuesday, Allen's mouth was wide open and his eyes looked surprised by these remarks.
Miller went on to say Allen said on April 9, 2023, at 6:56 a.m., " I only killed them to give my family more time to be free." Then at 7:58 a.m. Allen said, " I'm sorry I killed those kids... I may have touched my daughter, I can't remember."
The jury asked Miller if it would be normal to act like Allen while refusing medication. Miller responded, "It's possible."
Correctional Officer Brandon Fisher testified that on April 29, 2023, Allen not only confessed to the murders, but also provided some details into what happened.
Fisher said Allen wanted to rape the girls, but he panicked and ended up killing them. Allen allegedly told Fisher he killed the girls with a box cutter and threw it into a dumpster behind CVS.
After 13 months, Allen at Westville was transferred to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility. Jason Bedwell, a correctional officer there was called to the stand.
Bedwell testified on February 4, 2024, Allen again confessed to the murders while crying and talking to himself. Bedwell said "I am sorry for what I did. Sorry for killing them."
Also on Monday, Indiana State Police forensic scientist Stacy Bozinovski said no DNA tied Allen to the murder scene in Delphi, Indiana.

I did read this yesterday. And it's absolutely so full of things that can be attacked it is not even funny. I knew if I sidetracked into it, or started, that I wouldn't catch up on all of yesterday. It is absolutely sickening. And total laypeople (like us) can show all the holes in it and give examples of how it doesn't work. For hours on end actually. And I daren't do it now either as I'd never get to work or keep up but MUCH I'd like to talk to and NO, he is not the victim.

Typical defense expert. I think what's different in this one (trial) is that the P never put their own up did they? Usually you have the battle of the experts. I can name some trials where because of what the P expert said, the D expert fell flat...

Again a lot to say on it, TONS, but don't dare get started or look at it again.

There is no insanity defense here and so it isn't going to help them there. And it isn't going to make 12 people fall over and see him as innocent and find him such. And again, the average person can poke so many holes in this, it is not even funny.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Based on what has been provided as evidence this week, is it possible for the jury to return a verdict of guilty due to insanity themselves? What is the guidance for them regarding this, does anyone know? He clearly did it based on all his confessions and unique knowledge of their injuries. In one instance he said Satan did it. He has confessed to molesting his sister and thinks he molested his daughter too. Where the heck is this going?

Another thing was mentioned was that he was fine initially and did not go off the rails until he saw his lawyers. Is he swinging the lead ?

No. Imho. No jury can find someone insane when there's been and is no insanity defense. They could all feel sorry for him and vote him not guilty but that's not going to happen imo.

A lot I could say about when he has and has not went off the rails but no time and don't dare. Just catching up. Don't know if after this is all over if we will all go back and rehash and talk of some of this or not, or if something else will take over. I wish I could actually do so now. That we all could. And many a day of testimony before then too that I don't feel has ever been fully looked at and talked of, etc.

Did anyone hear the NM question of the sister and whether there was a Chris in their neighborhood? Lol. Good one. The D objected and the J ruled for them of course. She's doing a lot of that actually for the ones out there who says she never does...

 

[GrandmaBear]

So why aren't his lawyers recommending him to plead guilty?

Why didn't his lawyers, wife or mom let him do so back when? Yah.

Personal interests/need I guess. Covering their own failures. Hey maybe that is the story of his life... But in the same way, I think he passive aggressively ran his own families and made all be about him... I'm no shrink and don't like such terms but just look at it all. I mean really... It's all there. He is a manipulative man with a lot more going on than that but again, I'd better not get sidetracked. Don't know where the hours are going this morning but they are disappearing on me.

I think this one will have a lot to unpack for a long time if we care to do so. And I think also for anyone out there really interested in connecting all the sh*t and dots afterwards too that isn't onto the next thing, or looking for a quick buck and book, and really wants to unpack it and see it all... Or get a quick headline with a ton of bias. Imo.