LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *GUILTY*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]



Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]

Murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

On Feb 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams & Liberty German were discovered in Delphi, #INDIANA. The suspect in their deaths is awaiting trial.

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant, though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." Even with a lot of media coverage, their murders remain unsolved.

www.crimewatchers.net

 

[GrandmaBear]

I just watched it. One and a half hours. The callers were interesting. Three from Indiana plus one each from Ohio and California.

Yeah, I thought it interesting and interesting how very fair Scott was on both sides of the coin and that's something many can't do, probably self included lol, my mind has been made up for some time. It wasn't anything over the top with anything new but interesting to hear the varying opinions. Every IN caller thought him guilty didn't they and were pleased with the verdict although one or two did tell of how they were not sure at first and how they came to that over time.

Did you notice he tried to cut off both the OH and CA callers? He then let the one go on a bit longer and talked to her more, I think it was the CA one.

Personally I think he also did the show to gain some Patreon subscribers because if you wanted more, they were going to continue after on Patreon. I actually was considering it. I've never done such with any channel and there's only a few I would be tempted to do it with, and he is one. I don't see a lot of is shows any longer but when I do, they are always good.

The two final callers were repersentative of more out there thoughts imo. At least one of the IN callers knew some of the people involved. Another I believe frequented Delphi a fair amount.

The guy who thinks RA was never on the bridge is way out there, or not think, but says what IF more so... Imo. RA could not have placed himself there with passing the girls he thought to be sisters, etc. and known all this at that point in time. He's not thinking clearly imo. Thinking he wanted to insert himself was his thought. Scott didn't give him much time and I don't blame him lol.

I don't get people like this when they take a crime and create another scenario and one that makes little sense. There's a lot of hits out there imo, the thinking isn't logical.

It's one thing all of the years we had no idea of who or what happened to speculate about a lot of things but that's now what he was doing.

Usually he only does call ins on his Patreon and to hear more of them, that's what one would have to do, however, he was asking if people liked him doing it on his public show last night and most said yes so maybe he will do more of such.

I haven't caught up on posts here from yesterday but since the trial is over and news has slowed, it shouldn't be much trouble to catch up when I hit the days off tomorrow.

I'm irritated as I would have been done at 5 tonight (early for most of my shifts) but then we have a meeting I have to go back in for at 8 for an hour. I HATE it when they do that. If you are already working til close you are already there. Everyone else has to get back into full uniform (also stupid since you are not there to be around customers and are upstairs) and make the drive back in no matter how long of a drive for some, for a stupid hour. People who had the day off also have to put hole in their day doing so, or evening I should say. I was to the meeting last year and I know exactly what they are going to say in it, recall it all. So that bites. Get home for an hour or two and can't even start into relaxation, get all back on and heada back in. So wo't be home til after 9 then. It's asinine imo and I think only the new ones who have never heard it all before should have to attend.

 

[Tresir]

Yeah, I thought it interesting and interesting how very fair Scott was on both sides of the coin and that's something many can't do, probably self included lol, my mind has been made up for some time. It wasn't anything over the top with anything new but interesting to hear the varying opinions. Every IN caller thought him guilty didn't they and were pleased with the verdict although one or two did tell of how they were not sure at first and how they came to that over time.

Did you notice he tried to cut off both the OH and CA callers? He then let the one go on a bit longer and talked to her more, I think it was the CA one.

Personally I think he also did the show to gain some Patreon subscribers because if you wanted more, they were going to continue after on Patreon. I actually was considering it. I've never done such with any channel and there's only a few I would be tempted to do it with, and he is one. I don't see a lot of is shows any longer but when I do, they are always good.

The two final callers were repersentative of more out there thoughts imo. At least one of the IN callers knew some of the people involved. Another I believe frequented Delphi a fair amount.

The guy who thinks RA was never on the bridge is way out there, or not think, but says what IF more so... Imo. RA could not have placed himself there with passing the girls he thought to be sisters, etc. and known all this at that point in time. He's not thinking clearly imo. Thinking he wanted to insert himself was his thought. Scott didn't give him much time and I don't blame him lol.

I don't get people like this when they take a crime and create another scenario and one that makes little sense. There's a lot of hits out there imo, the thinking isn't logical.

It's one thing all of the years we had no idea of who or what happened to speculate about a lot of things but that's now what he was doing.

Usually he only does call ins on his Patreon and to hear more of them, that's what one would have to do, however, he was asking if people liked him doing it on his public show last night and most said yes so maybe he will do more of such.

I haven't caught up on posts here from yesterday but since the trial is over and news has slowed, it shouldn't be much trouble to catch up when I hit the days off tomorrow.

I'm irritated as I would have been done at 5 tonight (early for most of my shifts) but then we have a meeting I have to go back in for at 8 for an hour. I HATE it when they do that. If you are already working til close you are already there. Everyone else has to get back into full uniform (also stupid since you are not there to be around customers and are upstairs) and make the drive back in no matter how long of a drive for some, for a stupid hour. People who had the day off also have to put hole in their day doing so, or evening I should say. I was to the meeting last year and I know exactly what they are going to say in it, recall it all. So that bites. Get home for an hour or two and can't even start into relaxation, get all back on and heada back in. So wo't be home til after 9 then. It's asinine imo and I think only the new ones who have never heard it all before should have to attend.

Stupid. You should suggest they let those not working sign in remotely to it. Do you have an anonymous suggestion box?

The CA one on Scott's hardly said anything LOL.

Also, RA actually mentioned seeing those girls didn't he? So he clearly was there, wasn't he?

 

[GrandmaBear]

Stupid. You should suggest they let those not working sign in remotely to it. Do you have an anonymous suggestion box?

The CA one on Scott's hardly said anything LOL.

Also, RA actually mentioned seeing those girls didn't he? So he clearly was there, wasn't he?

It is STUPID. And yet at the same time, they try to save payroll, keep hours down when they can, helps them get their bonuses, etc. yet they schedule these mandatory dumb late meetings.

No there is no anonymous suggestion box lol and you'd be seen on camera putting something in it anyhow lol.

Remotely, I am going to mention that although I guarantee you, I'll get a look of huh... The part about having to be back in uniform is the most ridiculous part, well it all is. Not a single customer would even know you were an employee if we simply came back in in decent normal clothing but because they see all these staff all of a sudden coming in over five or ten minutes late at night, it actually imo causes more issue. You're heading to the meeting but being stopped by customers to ask you to show them where some product is all the way across the store and you aren't on duty for that reason. Yuo're not on duty period. You are punched in to attend a dumb meeting. And they are the same exact ones every single year. I've been through three of some but in different departments so they vary a bit according to that but at the same times of year for the same reasons. This one of course is about Black Friday mostly, and the holiday season. I can quote verbatim what was said last year.

Thankfully there was one I missed, yes we had another like just a month ago or so, same thing I would have had to head back in but I actually was sick that day and forgot there was even a meeting until after or that I missed one. Wasn't happy to be sick but sure was happy I missed it.

Yeah he got rid of CA pretty fast.

Yes, I think I mentioned that. That this man's thought that RA wasn't even there and made it up is ridiculous because RA cited things and times and more and the girls. People are just so "out there" well at least some are. I don't think the majority are that way truly, I think most see this case for what it is but then when you get a few dialing or ratcheting other stuff up, the ones that just either haven't been around crime that long, maybe are younger, maybe don't know the case, latch onto these out there thoughts or come up with their own.

This case really is simple at its core. I mean for many years we didn't know that for sure but it truly is. It's heinous and not your typical everyday crime but it is simple. And it's all there.

Scott talked of when someone asked I think how often he's seen in his career someone get a serious charge like murder or something on that order, how often the person never had any criminal history prior. He said MANY times and particularly with sexual crimes and how they are all fantasies, I am paraphrasing,ad it's VERY common in that arena or type of offender particularly.

He has a ton of defendants he has represented and a ton of charged murderers, he does not just talk the talk but he isn't all talk like some I could mention that I truly wonder what they've really done in their careers, and HOW they did it, and how many they've really handled.

Interesting anyhow, I thought. And I hate to be biased but the minute I heard the call was from CA I thought oh here we go, this should be interesting. NOT that I think all in CA are off the wall as I know several people there who are NOT lol. But there's more than their fair share of such.... Lol.

 

[GrandmaBear]

I watched this this morning. Apologies if already posted/linked. I come down on traditional news a lot but there are times they have their place for reasons right now I don't have time to go into and it was pretty darned good. Of course now they have to turn to being more the one way since there is a verdict and are not trying to keep up with coverage, etc. so much. Full on coverage and attendance I mean.

I have a few takeaways from it but no time to share.

The only posts I saw this morning were the last two of Tresirs. I have to go back to catch up later.

I pretty much spent last night just watching some shows like Scott's, and this one this morning, and wasn't on here at all but for a moment before I sidetracked that way for the night.

 

[Tresir]

I watched this this morning. Apologies if already posted/linked. I come down on traditional news a lot but there are times they have their place for reasons right now I don't have time to go into and it was pretty darned good. Of course now they have to turn to being more the one way since there is a verdict and are not trying to keep up with coverage, etc. so much. Full on coverage and attendance I mean.

I have a few takeaways from it but no time to share.

The only posts I saw this morning were the last two of Tresirs. I have to go back to catch up later.

I pretty much spent last night just watching some shows like Scott's, and this one this morning, and wasn't on here at all but for a moment before I sidetracked that way for the night.

So it seems like the jury had come to a verdict by 1 to 1.30 as they began to get the press in there from 1.40 on and then the P and the families, finally the D and the accused and family plus the public. Gull said she wanted no reactions to the verdict. Jury were brought in and the verdict was passed over and read by the judge at 2.22pm all in less than 5 minutes. Then the jury was released and left. So the deliberations appeared to be just over 2 days - maybe almost 3 days but a lot was them rewatching videos. It was a fairly quick verdict then really IMO.

 

[RoundPeg]

 

[GrandmaBear]

Yeah I don't see that she will but who knows. Doubtful, she has stuck to it in every way and kept the gag order on too. I guess playing it safe through sentencing although I see no real reason for it. Those families and that community has been stifled long enough and the verdict IS decided but I see her sticking to both things imo.

"Tom has linked what he says in the title will be his last Delphi live chat for a few days from now. I thought he'd at least do sentencing yet. WHAT am I ever going to do without him? Lol but seriously. I'm choosing not to believe he would really do that if there is further news but I wouldn't doubt it either. As into this as he was, he did it more from being asked to continually than I think he ever planned to and he is pretty level headed and has an actual real life aside from all this.

Maybe he will just video about the sentencing and not make it a live but find it hard to believe he wouldn't do that as the last one. Shall see I guess what he says in this "final" one.

That show he did the other night with 9 others on was the best thing I'\ve watched in a long darned time. Eons in fact.

Anyhow if there are cameras and live streaming I'd hope he'd do that one last one but back to the point, I doubt Gull will cave to it. Now you are going to have the raw emotions of the girls' families but then I don't know that they are in any way a key consideration to her.

You know this day is when victims' families finally get to speak when it's been ALL about the defendant throughout and they've had to stifle how hard that all is. They etc to show and talk of the IMPACT this crime HE is now convicted of was on them. And of the victims themselves. I don't know if their families would want it recorded or televised but it wouldn't surprise me if THIS part they might want that so all can hear what has NEVER been heard because they've had to wait and to stifle it.

I have a lot of going back here to do to catch up with posts so working backwards again but it won't be now because I have a STUPID WORK meeting to go back into work for. My shoes are off and my feet say no. Would normally be in lounge wear by now after a grueling day five but no point. Did switch into a T shirt and take the shoes OFF. Not going back in the fully loaded work thing of my day, pockets full of box cutter, hard candy, pen, my other phone, etc. I'll just take one of my others, my name tag, make sure I have my driver's license on me, and not go totally loaded down. And put the damned shoes back on. And sit there through the most unneeded boring hour ever. I hope this isn't the one they fill some of that hour with stupid games. And I mean STUPID. I guess I'll never be used to stupid bigger corp stuff. They are far from nationwide but they are plenty big enough and constantly opening new stores. But a bit dated I'd say.

O/T, just saying, I dont dare starting to try to catch up here now.. There are people who had the day off that have to drive back like 45 minutes for an hour! Of sh*t they've heard in past years.

Okay. Enough.

Maybe Gull will surprise us all. Lol. But I do agree, they all should file it, the request for cameras.

 

[GrandmaBear]

So it seems like the jury had come to a verdict by 1 to 1.30 as they began to get the press in there from 1.40 on and then the P and the families, finally the D and the accused and family plus the public. Gull said she wanted no reactions to the verdict. Jury were brought in and the verdict was passed over and read by the judge at 2.22pm all in less than 5 minutes. Then the jury was released and left. So the deliberations appeared to be just over 2 days - maybe almost 3 days but a lot was them rewatching videos. It was a fairly quick verdict then really IMO.

Totally agree as I've said. This was a very reasonable length deliberation for this case. In fact, I think they got to it, keyed in on what mattered, did not rush but double checked and ensured, and discussed and they arrived at the verdict that, imo, was deserved, and was all there behind the b.s.

Thanks for hitting on that part of that news show. There were and are a few other things I'd like to point out if I get to a calmer moment and time. One is how they had someone in the courtroom of course and outside as news with a team can. YTers like Lauren for instance gets out to let the viewers know the verdict but then doesn't have eyes inside. Or on both sides of the courthouse either.

That is one place when I said that traditional news has their place at times, but only because they can cover all that, as there are several, and he stayed in longer to see the LE team hugging and somewhat celebrating after jury and judge and all others had left the courtroom. Lauren was in there through part but not the after.

Another thing if too much time doesn't pass I'd hit on is one of the first ones out was a "friend of the Allen family" who looked mad... First hint the female reporter said the verdict may have been read... Well of course they mean Bob Motta and I have a LOT to say about him yet but need to go back and catch up on all comments first. I saw the other day you posted something a few days ago about him and how Defense Diaries said hew as a friend of KA and why MS was obssessed with him, etc. but I have never had a chance to go actually read it and go back and comment. I just saw it briefly on a work break. He is a subject I am going to hit on yet when I get to it. Bad news imo. And let's talk connections and leaks... And who was running all voe rhe77 on his show with the O thing. HE IS Defense Diaries.

And by the way, why is the news here reporting him as a friend to the Allen family rather than also saying he is a D attorney with a YT channel? Interesting...And honestly if he is such a good friend of them as to get a rare seat and cares so much and they appreciate him, then why wasn't he representing RA for free?

Perhaps I'm wrong and that person was not him because he walked out with KA when she said this isn't over...

There are other nuggets I can't recall right now I wanted to touch on but no time when I linked it. Nothing huge and some actually that would say it was a good show and I knock traditional news a lot, for good reason but they are also limited by things in ways others are not...

I still need to go back and catch up, it's a question if I will be able to do so. So much to do and always so little time, and recovery takes a day as it is from the week lol.

It was a very STUPID meeting last night and when we actually could have been done 15 minutes early, it's like let's play a game. The stupidst part of all of them, have to take up that full hour. Greasy pizza the younger ones swarmed to with no manners while the rest of us waited until they quit running for it. Lol. I think I've just been there now long enough I see a lot more and am not so enamored. I liked it better when I didn't. The GM led the meeting where last year our department manager did it all... And I could sense that didn't sit well. Ltos of b.s. that I used to have no clue about...All younger than I of course and of many of us.

In the same meeting it was like do we want to have a contest for Black Friday with who has most transactions and does it the fastest? The same person at another point was telling all to slow DOWN. Don't use the quantity key they said to cashiers. the GM said unless you have to. Meaning decide logically to keep lines moving and fairly certain all is the same item. OUR manager in our department later said don't use it, not even like at your best discretion. Oh come on. One night I had 300 of the same item in boxes right after closing. I counted ever stinking one. Some had no bar codes. It was a nightmare and these were sharp things that clung together, etc. And yes, when I had counted ALL I used the quantity key. I knew they were all the same, etc. It's just so obvious the b.s. and dumb **** that comes from above, down, those that don't even have a clue and then they get pressured and they pass it on, etc...

And then you see the brown nosers, the ones that comment or raise their hand. I guess I've just lived too much life and been in mgmnt positions myself lol. now I am not and WANT no part of it but I just look at them like our manager and she has two young ones at home and think how stressful her life must be... I recall those years...

They can have the headache. And feel like they need to perform amongst ever conflicting rules to keep their jobs.

VERY OFF TOPIC.

Anyhow, it isn't going to get better through the holiday season. And the GM is just like call if you see this or that, I'm sitting there thinking most do but the one called doesn't do sh*t...

Oh well. It's just a job.

So, hoping to catch up on this thread today anyhow. But have more pressing things that I better get on here shortly too.

Delphi has sure been a ride. But I for one, am convinced and happy and certain the correct verdict was arrived at. Just clear the b.s. and it was there. And the jury did that.

 

[GrandmaBear]

According to this Reddit poster, KA gave Motta a seat each day.

Bonitraxton
•20d ago•Edited 20d ago•


hi, I produce defense diaries podcast and can tell you directly that Bob does not "Work for" the defense. He has a seat in the court room with because RA's wife gave it to him. I dont personally understand MS and their obsession with Bob and Ali, but its pretty weird IMO. One of them comments on either Bob, Ali or, both in seemingly every episode. Its gross. anyway, my comment is more attention than this nonsense "drama" perpetuated by whomever, deserves.

I don't know who produces it, but Bob and Ali are Defense Diaries. So not sure if someone is talking like they are a third person or whate but one and the same.

Some monhs back like back in the O b.s. days, I told myself to look at the other side once. I went through one show with him and her and was okay then a day or two later hew as like a nutcase on without her and spouting all this b.s., seemed like he had an agenda or was on sometihing honestly and I was done. I've seen him since on some things occasionally like he's some big person, maybe Court TV/? Some various things and I'm like I recall exactly th agenda he seemed to have and NOPE.

Personally I'd put him right in the thick of the leak and distribution and who such wen to and such. And part of it. JUST MY OPINOIN.

Now he's a friend of the Allens. Okay....... It's kind of like MW was just a friend but not an attorney, etc. who was in the office of the D and stole sh*t.... COME ON. Yeah right.

I honestly wonder about MS sometimes seriously BUT I don't disagree with them going on about this guy. Haven't heard it but I sure can see the reason.

Really why didn't Motta offer his services for free to RA to defend him...

It's all VERY ODD. And sometimes my instincts are right on. I tend to for some stupid reason in my life ignore them for my own life but they are pretty on for everything else most of the time. and I trust them.

Like Monday and a guilty verdict.

I can clear when it isn't my own sh*t. Clear the blizzard effect.

I can't stand him. The first one I watched, she helped balance his b.s. but that too was a team.

WHy didn't news call him what he is?

Interesting...

 

[GrandmaBear]

An interview with Bob Motta about the case.

Not sure if I've seen it or not, but not watching it. I cannot STAND this guy.

 

[GrandmaBear]

An interview with Bob Motta about the case.

i have watched "The Laywer You Know" a fair bit so may have seen but I am not sure as I may have turned off to it if Motta was on. Not getting his videos popping up for me these days either (The Lawyer). And I'm undecided on him, I have watched him but not sold on him. He seems like he has some hyper energy to me... But who knows... I am not a total fall for channels, some I kind of wait and see, and he was one.

I mean seriously I wondered if he was on coke or something. He's always so over the top with energy and speed. Coke is probably old, I don't know the drug thing lol. Always never tired and on a high speed.

I've seen some good shows of his don't get me wrong but my tried and true are for a reason. I watched Girzz start out one way and promoted her only to see her totally change to what her agenda probably was.

something tells me there's been a LOT of questions about Motta because all are explaining he's just a family friend of KA/the Allens. Interesting. They never identify him as a major controversial YTer and defense attorney..... Uhm why?

 

[Tresir]

I don't know who produces it, but Bob and Ali are Defense Diaries. So not sure if someone is talking like they are a third person or whate but one and the same.

Some monhs back like back in the O b.s. days, I told myself to look at the other side once. I went through one show with him and her and was okay then a day or two later hew as like a nutcase on without her and spouting all this b.s., seemed like he had an agenda or was on sometihing honestly and I was done. I've seen him since on some things occasionally like he's some big person, maybe Court TV/? Some various things and I'm like I recall exactly th agenda he seemed to have and NOPE.

Personally I'd put him right in the thick of the leak and distribution and who such wen to and such. And part of it. JUST MY OPINOIN.

Now he's a friend of the Allens. Okay....... It's kind of like MW was just a friend but not an attorney, etc. who was in the office of the D and stole sh*t.... COME ON. Yeah right.

I honestly wonder about MS sometimes seriously BUT I don't disagree with them going on about this guy. Haven't heard it but I sure can see the reason.

Really why didn't Motta offer his services for free to RA to defend him...

It's all VERY ODD. And sometimes my instincts are right on. I tend to for some stupid reason in my life ignore them for my own life but they are pretty on for everything else most of the time. and I trust them.

Like Monday and a guilty verdict.

I can clear when it isn't my own sh*t. Clear the blizzard effect.

I can't stand him. The first one I watched, she helped balance his b.s. but that too was a team.

WHy didn't news call him what he is?

Interesting...

I know that Bob and Ali are DD. The commenter said he/she produced the podcasts and was explaining the seat that KA let Bob have so I was posting it as it confirmed how Bob was gettiing his seat from KA. He wouldnt work for free i bet but probably gave advice to KA how to get a public defender maybe?

I've only watched them once and didn't like their presentation so never bothered again. Perhaps he's hanging around for possible appeal work, who knows. The podcasters wont be able to make money any more now, will they?

I just watched the beginning of this one but mainly just posted it for others.

 

[GrandmaBear]

I know that Bob and Ali are DD. The commenter said he/she produced the podcasts and was explaining the seat that KA let Bob have so I was posting it as it confirmed how Bob was gettiing his seat from KA. He wouldnt work for free i bet but probably gave advice to KA how to get a public defender maybe?

I've only watched them once and didn't like their presentation so never bothered again. Perhaps he's hanging around for possible appeal work, who knows. The podcasters wont be able to make money any more now, will they?

I just watched the beginning of this one but mainly just posted it for others.

I watched one of theirs where both were on, trying to give the D side of the case a chance and open my mind. The first one with both was well okay... She tempered his b.s. The second one I watched was just him being a total nutcase and going off and she was not on. He was stressed, personally wondered what he was on, but blowing up if I recall he whole O thing, etc. and I thought his is B.S., this is an agenda and I QUIT right there. I did NOT even know he was an attorney at the time, I thought she was and she had to inform him of the legal things with some sense.

I was DONE.

And then I've seen him on some shows since and then he shows up in court with the D and KA...

He is bad news.

There needs to be a stop to this b.s.

I guaranee you he received the leak sh*t.

And this whole story of he is a friend of KA's. Okay, perhaps so. But no one is going to tell me he isn't of the D as well.

I watch GOOD YTers and then there are people like him.

KA definitely should have had seats for family and friends but boy, what was he, her service dog?

I have no respect at all for that woman and i've held it from saying what I could say.

I have NO respect for the D at all.

And I HAVE NEVER EVER said this in any case but I might have more respect for RA than ANY OF THEM although a lot of me thinks he is a master manipulator so I conflict there BUT he TRIED to confess.

His mom and wife need some SERIOUS help as do his daughter and sister imo. And people like the D and Motta are just taking advantage of it all and of them.

Just wait... That's not to you but to the situation...

Motta is disgusting. I made it through a show and a part of another where he was like berserk. Never even knew who he was at that time.

 

[GrandmaBear]

I still have not gone back here and caught up. Hopefully when there is some daylight if not back down sleeping by then.

So Bobby and Ali explot and make tons of money off this case and apparently he is a close family friend of KA. Wow. But he doesn't represent RA and has no connection to the D attorneys. UH huh. And that hasn't been said actually, it's just pushed that he is a friend to the Allens and that part is not touched on...

I will say this for all what I think is total corruptness and games, it did NOT work did it?? It sure the heck was tried. But RA was convicted. If there's any conspiracy most are thinking imo of the wrong side...

And I am starting to understand perhaps why Gull put such tight reins on EVERYTHING and even though I still am not happy over the whole lack of recording, etc., I am starting to see the reasons for a LOT of things.

 

[GrandmaBear]

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/sentencing-potential-verdict-appeal-await-delphi-killer/

Sentencing, potential verdict appeal await Delphi killer​

At 2:20 p.m. Monday, in a third-floor courtroom inside the Carroll County Courthouse, Richard Allen ceased to be a presumed innocent man as a jury handed down its guilty verdicts four times for the murders of Abby Williams and Libby German near the Monon High Bridge on the outskirts of Delphi almost eight years ago.


Each count, two murder charges and two felony murder charges as a result of the kidnappings that took place just before the killings, carries a sentence of 45-65 years in prison for the 52-year-old Allen.


On Dec. 20, in that same courtroom, Special Judge Fran Gull from Fort Wayne will consider a Pre-Sentence Report, listen to the victim impact statements of the families of the children who were murdered by a resident of their own hometown, give Allen and his family the chance to speak for themselves, and will then pronounce sentence and advise the convicted man of his right to appeal the jury’s decision.

Yes he ceased to be a presumed innocent man. That's quite the phrase.

I am so happy the jury looked at the FACTS and came to, imo all may not agree, the right opinion. It really is all there.There was a lot of sn*w effect but it is there.

I am just catching up with posts.

it does not bring them back but I am very happy the girls' families got this verdict. They have had to deal with WAY too much, not only the heinous murders and loss but the total b.s. And keep their mouths shut. It's inhuman imo.

 

[RoundPeg]

Becky Patty posted this 2 days ago.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Becky Patty posted this 2 days ago.

View attachment 23308

She and Kelsey have posted a few things. Hadn't seen this.

it's well said. And fitting for death and grief but murder, well, even more so, with added layers imo.

Anger at the act and the senselessness.

I think right now there is probably a fair hole or void.

I don't agree when I believe the one reporter said or someone did how no one is happy and well, yes, that's true, but I don't agree that one side is not happy with the verdict at all, one side is and should be. It's just not a happy that brings anyone back or fixes anything.

For years they've had this wait, even for an arrest, and then for trial, and so much b.s. in this case on top of it and this focus. Almost impossible to bear and yet one has to, and be silent as well!

And now all of a sudden and it's what one wants, it is over.

It takes one huge toll.

Not trying to be a know it all or anything, it's just an extremely hard thing and almost beyond what should be asked of anyone to do. And in their case with this attention and the b.s. and talk and more, I imagine I could times it by 1,000.

Like I said I suspect there is a bit of a void now, maybe even a lot of one. From the day these girls were killed, there's been a need for answers and justice. YEARS. That's been their life, their focus, and their wait. Even though life goes on and they have and do to a point, it also is somewhat at a standstill because of such.

I really don't have the words I want but now all of that is over. In a way at least for me (I think the rest of us too but I know for me) grief is not entirely processed at all until justice is served. I don't teven know how people that get none or have no answers get through such.

"new normal" Yes. And now they really have the time and phase where it hits imo. There is no one and no case to focus on or strength to drum up for such, and you do it, because you have to. It is so important to you.

So I am sure they feel aged, tired, wiped and a void even with the happiness at the verdict.

I'm sure I sound like whatever but just hits me again too, hard. THroughout this trial they were on my mind a LOT, what they had to see, what they had to hear. Lies told imo. In the samne room as the defendant and the D attorneys. Very hard.

And then they are still gagged. Who knows if they will speak or not but they should be able to and will be after sentencing to say whatever, anything an evertything they've held in.

Kelsey indicated (I think it was her) that that would probably happen after the holidays.

So close to Chrstimas the sentencing is...

My family has a new normal. The loss of three (all) of our men and then the baby. Our fabric will never be the same.

However, it is different and now it's all women with the exception of two BILs and of course if one goes down the tree, nephews, my grandson, who is going to be 18, etc. It's good. It will never be the same but it's good in its own way. I never thought we'd find one again.

I'm overdoing it, but I just am really thinking about these families and have been throughout this trial, and it brings things back too I guess.

They are going to have more b.s. to deal with but the big part is over. And that's a HUGE and GOOD thing.

I'd add to this about RA's family but it isn't in me sadly. I'm not even sure I consider it denial because I think they know better.

The evidence and such will be coming out after sentencing imo and I don't think even Gull will hold such back, perhaps teh autopsy photos and some things like that. She'd better not is all I have to say.

That's going to affect the family too because there will likely be a fair amount of coverage of it. At least then though, they will be able to speak and not have to sit through it in silence.

Anyhow I guess his became and is simply a wrap to this case and my talking of the victim's families first and foremos for once which is all too rare in cases, it all becomes about the defendant. And not the victims or their families.

Who knows if Gull will grant cameras for sentencing, probably not, but I have to say as much as I want to see and hear it, the families statements are going to be emotionally gutwrenching.

Imo, they' ve been a class act, all of them. And deserve a ton of credit.

Some out there try to make Kelsey the culprit, I haven't seen such but saw others saying there are places like that that say such, I don't watch or read that kind of sh*t. They have been through the mill and back. Yet look how strong.

I was up in the wee hours then laid back down and slept for a couple and this is a waking post go figure. But it is also a processing post. I haven't been off work with much time since the verdict came in.

It is strange too that it is over, even here, imo, and for us.

There are things that I want to see and hear even more so yet one day.

But right now I am just thinking of the Patty and Williams families, all of the girls loved ones and friends, and the girls. I've seen a few of the poss by Becky and Kelsie. I hadn't seen this one.

I think it just hit me, and its so fitting.

Okay, enough from me. Also, it is a general post just to the quote she posted and my thoughts on it all.

They have had quite the years of pain and ups and downs and recently weeks of trial. I hope they take a real break between now and sentencing.

Time to stop. Just wanted to focus on them for a bit. For once. ANd not the other person.

 

[GrandmaBear]

So @Cousin Dupree how are you doing? I'm not being facetious or sarcastic. I know you really weren't seeing or on board with RA being guilty. Well sometimes you were but felt it was not him alone.

And also had the RL focus.

So do you have respect for the jury's verdict? I think they made the right decision and reached the right verdict.

I don't get a lot of time to just engage with people so thought I would.

Out of touch with too many these days.

So it is a serious question and not trying to debate. I don't see it as you did but can see your reasons but I also feel you are watching one way things about such if so, one really had to look for good coverage in this one that showed all parts. Imo.

It's good that it's over but weird that it's over.

I'm really just realizing it I guess and have had a bit of time to take it in now.

Anyhow just a true reaching out to touch base, knowing we saw things differently.

Also as you know, I entertained others being involved but these days and for some time, I honestly do not think anyone else was. Jmo of course.

For me, for all the problems with the case, and even the investigation and the blizzard effect, it was there when one stripped it all away which is what I believe the jury did.

Jmo of course..

I think I'm just in process of winding down on this long case. I can't imagine how it is for the families.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

Of course, I respect the juries decision. I don't respect Judge Gull's hamstringing the defense.

 

[Tresir]

Of course, I respect the juries decision. I don't respect Judge Gull's hamstringing the defense.

Do you expect them to appeal her not allowing a third party defence?

What are posters' experience of defendants using a third party ( or so called SODDI) defence?

Isn't that what got O.J. off ?