LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]



Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]

Murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

On Feb 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams & Liberty German were discovered in Delphi, #INDIANA. The suspect in their deaths is awaiting trial.

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant, though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." Even with a lot of media coverage, their murders remain unsolved.

www.crimewatchers.net

 

[GrandmaBear]

I think I'll wait for the trial to see the actual pics. I don't like someone interpreting for me. I don't know if RA is the murderer or not, (I tend to think he is) but I don't think others were involved and I'm having a real hard time with this Odimism stuff.

That's my leaning too. RA did it with no one else. I do think he came to know where they were etc. possibly through another source or something online etc. I also think he may have been part of the dropbox thing, etc. and maybe Shotz thing but that he went rogue and on his own with this and that would also explain how KK plays in I dunno.

I don't buy the O stuff though. Basically any of it. It would take more than there has been by a long shot and I don't see much of significance in what they tried with so far. I believe they knew however it would make a splash and that SOME would buy it. I also think perhaps they planned and intended to follow up with the photos after the first splash and figured at that point they would have hugely changed and damaged the case--however it backfired... I don't know...

 

[GrandmaBear]

Tresir said:
"I've seen the stick figure drawings and agree. I've also seen the supposed photo
of the tree with the supposed blood on it and cannot see the similarity to the F rune.
It just looks like someone wiped their hand or a knife on it."

Could be, good idea.

This Odinist theory is nonsense. The (supposed Odinist) persons in the community
who were said to have made admissions about the crime - who are the witnesses
to these admissions - ex-wife & ex-girlfriend, not particularly believable, IMO, even
if some ner'-do-well local boys did do some bragging about crimes (that they didn't
actually commit).
The prison guards with the 'Odin' patch - just thu-, er, lowlevel muscle employees,
who apparently have been instructed to hassle RA (e.g. video his face whilst talking
to his lawyers, so they can try and possibly lip read his words, if RA complains about
his mis-treatment.). Seems to be a real effort made to mentally mess with RA (and
possibly physically torture RA, remember the 'Don't shock me, don't shock me'
comment, & the prisoner who wrote the letter alledging mis-treatment of RA).

I won't be surprized if innocent, weak simp RA is eventually found guilty.

As far as the leaked pictures go, I assume this hollow where the victims were found
had leaves all over the ground, I see the branches as simply placed on the bodies and
some leaves were then scooped up and thrown on the bodies, the branches emplaced
and acting as an attempt to gate the leaves heaped on the bodies, possibly the wind
wasn't so great when this was done, later sometime within the following 'less than 24hrs'
before the bodies were found, the wind picked up and did what it eventually does - it
blows all leaves from a higher point (in this case, the bodies) to a lower point
(the forest floor). Horns? Runes? BS.

It's hard to judge how much RA's (previous) lawyers actually believed this Odinist theory.
OK, they've meant to zealously represent their client, so maybe it was just a strategy.
The judge said RA
wasn't being treated any differently than any other defendant, but we know that statement
is inconsistent with the truth - where/when in Indiana is a defendant attending court in a
costume of multiple padlocks a-jangle, where are they walking past a shoulder to shoulder
wall of thugs and a sheriff who makes it his business to strike a pose for some convenient
surveillance court camera, is it normal for a defendant from that town to be kept in that
particular prison, a prisoner to be sleeping on the concrete floor and deprived of the
opportunity for relatives to visit, prefered (by jailers) contact via 'we'll bill you' electronic
device? His lawyers zealously represented his interests? Where was instant, upfront
complaint to (or about) the court regarding such happenings? Johnny Cochrane would weep.

A final thought. Was one of the girls naked from the waist down, I can't remember, but one
was supposed to be wearing the clothes of the other. Maybe she was tied to a tree, could
only reach the nearby clothes of the other girl - or maybe she knew one phone had been
seized and she put on the clothes of the other girl in the hope that there would be a phone
in those clothes. Possible? I don't know enough to know if this were a considerable possibility.

I agree with you on the O stuff.

I don't agree on Allen's innocence. Why do you think he is innocent?

As to the prisoner who wrote the letter, ANY fact from him is debatable. He is known to do such things the way I understood it, constantly. Also why would the guards do anything to RA that a prisoner who write and says such things frequently to whoever it was, judge or warden, in front of such a man the would know would squeal? It doesn't make any sense.

Not arguing in the least, just wondering and discussing.

As to phones, emu's "guy" only said Abby had a phone as he understood it but he was unclear entirely if he meant with them that day. In my opinion he is just repeating what was known before as if he has a source and it is new or something. Anna thought her daughter was not on FB but she was and I think same with a phone, thought she did not have one but did, I'm not 100 percent on the phone but I am on the FB thing. Anna also forbade her daughter to ever walk on that bridge and her daughter did. So with no insult intended, her mom was not up on what Abby was doing BUT this is many parents in every generation and it is even worse now with tech, parents are generally light years behind what the kids know and have figured out at an early age and keep up with the changes. So do many perp types...

I believe Libby was nude wasn't she? Where do I get that from...? Somewhere recently. But don't take it as fact as I am unsure.

As to Allen's defense, they only made a big claim of Os etc. after he confessed. How long had they had this info and docs?


Back to phones, I wonder again did Allen take any pics of his "work" and did he even print any out at work and hide them at his house or in a shed, etc.??? Here's the thing they wanted that search warrant and anything found overturned BUT at the same time they and others say the bullet casing evidence isn't much (not all say this), is THIS what they were really worried about found in the search....???? What ELSE is there???

 

[GrandmaBear]

I will just mention one thing - it has always been said that A did not have a phone but she had a tablet. Her mother didn't want her having a phone. She didn't even know that A was on FB IIRC.

Oh two things. When RL was arrested he was paraded in the orange jumpsuit and handcuff shackles too and that was just a driving offence.

Aaah three things. I have heard of him but I don't watch him as I don't watch many videos. I find them all a bit like GH ie long winded and boring. I have done a screen shot of this stick crime scene in this video and can post it as an attachment if anyone wants me to. Let me know.

Mime. I just said similar before reading this post of yours. I mentioned FB as well and that Abby was not to walk on the bridge. In response to buyerninety's post.

Handcuffs and jumpsuit mean little. Some counties in the US go overboard with it on even a minor traffic overnight jailing and take all cuffed to the courtroom and others would never.

I think it wouldn't hurt to have you put this screenshot of the new hand drawn figures here but up to what the majority thinks. I mean we have no way of knowing they are accurate reps of the pics BUT we are all adults and know that. I think even the emu can't say his guy who got it from another guy means emu can verify it. They aren't gory, they are just more detailed with the branches etc. WHERE did the FIRST ones come from by the way? That was before these photos were leaked. Did they come from defense filing?

 

[Tresir]

Mime. I just said similar before reading this post of yours. I mentioned FB as well and that Abby was not to walk on the bridge. In response to buyerninety's post.

Handcuffs and jumpsuit mean little. Some counties in the US go overboard with it on even a minor traffic overnight jailing and take all cuffed to the courtroom and others would never.

I think it wouldn't hurt to have you put this screenshot of the new hand drawn figures here but up to what the majority thinks. I mean we have no way of knowing they are accurate reps of the pics BUT we are all adults and know that. I think even the emu can't say his guy who got it from another guy means emu can verify it. They aren't gory, they are just more detailed with the branches etc. WHERE did the FIRST ones come from by the way? That was before these photos were leaked. Did they come from defense filing?

The first stick depictions of the crime scene you mean? I think I saw them briefly on a news feed type of video channel but not sure what channel.

 

[GrandmaBear]

I think A was dressed in L's clothes and then killer couldn't fit A's clothes on L so she was likely naked but MOO as I don't know if any of this is rumour or just guesswork by online sleuths just cashing in on it all. I mean how would we know if it wasn't just a bunch of made up stuff for the defence's theory anyway? I don't believe it myself. As for the bodies being staged or posed, I don't really believe that either.

It would TRULY depend on the facts and not defense claims as to when and by whom Abby was dressed. Also if I recall, Kelsey gave them both sweatshirts? But didn't defense say Abby was wearing the bras of both girls or was that an "accidental" typo by defense's very nonprofessional filing and novel?

I think for me the staged bodies is harder to ignore. It has been rumored for years and it is also said they were not killed where they were found, didn't any of this come in prosecution filings or no? Not sure any longer. But I even remember Carter saying to the killer that these girls do not look or are NOT like as you left them which hinted towards something we've always been trying to figure out...

I'm honestly not sure why you think he dressed them? And didn't make Abby dress, etc. or them take clothes off, put back on and so forth a least with Abby. He had to control hem for one or are you thinking dressing her after death? THAT I believe is what the defense claims and I don't buy anything they say because I don't have reason to.

 

[GrandmaBear]

The first stick depictions of the crime scene you mean? I think I saw them briefly on a news feed type of video channel but not sure what channel.

No, the newer ones. You said in the post I responded to of yours that you took a screen shot I took to mean of the ones in emu's guy's video.

 

[GrandmaBear]

You also said you knew of the guy, etc.

 

[RoundPeg]

For all we know he watched Criminal Minds. Or took that off a TV show. Or cloud watching. Surely, we've all done that. Oh, there's a giraffe cloud!

 

[Cousin Dupree]

So are you saying "your guy" did or did not show and compare the sticks with O symbols and their meaning? I mean I haven't watched it all and you said you hadn't either but yo did say he explained, showed, etc. and gave me the minute marker in the video and i didn't see that. I am sincerely asking, not picking. Because if he did or anyone has such, I'd like to see it. We keep hearing how EVERY branch and the tree mimics O symbols but after all of this time the only one is the F in the tree which doesn't look much like an F to me at all. Why aren't those that believe it saying the meaning and which symbol, etc.?? I seriously want to know.

I already posted that I was wrong about his explaining the symbolism.

 

[Tresir]

It would TRULY depend on the facts and not defense claims as to when and by whom Abby was dressed. Also if I recall, Kelsey gave them both sweatshirts? But didn't defense say Abby was wearing the bras of both girls or was that an "accidental" typo by defense's very nonprofessional filing and novel?

I think for me the staged bodies is harder to ignore. It has been rumored for years and it is also said they were not killed where they were found, didn't any of this come in prosecution filings or no? Not sure any longer. But I even remember Carter saying to the killer that these girls do not look or are NOT like as you left them which hinted towards something we've always been trying to figure out...

I'm honestly not sure why you think he dressed them? And didn't make Abby dress, etc. or them take clothes off, put back on and so forth a least with Abby. He had to control hem for one or are you thinking dressing her after death? THAT I believe is what the defense claims and I don't buy anything they say because I don't have reason to.

If they dressed themselves wouldn't they both be dressed in their own clothes though?
Also re the staging, one of the stick pics a commenter on reddit mentioned tarot cards, so I looked at tarot cards and one does look a bit like the upside down hangman tarot card. Upside down hangman is actually right way up. I will post a pic of that tarot card. I have also heard comparisons to the Statue of Liberty, presumably because one had their arm raised.

I don't necessarily believe they were staged or placed though. I think L could have been killed quickly and then he only had A to control.

Here's a link to the hanged man tarot card. It has the original depiction it was based on with St.Peter in a stained glass window plus images on cards.

The Hanged Man (tarot card) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Looks like this is where they got their Odin defence from.

"In other interpretations, The Hanged Man is a depiction of the Norse god Odin, who suspended himself from a tree in order to gain knowledge. There is also a Christian interpretation that portrays Judas Iscariot, and include the bags of silver in his hands. In the Lo Scarabeo African American tarot deck the 12th card of the major arcana is the Observer, depicting the Nigerian god "Ifa" of fate and destiny blindfolded and surrounded by eyes."

 

[Tresir]

You also said you knew of the guy, etc.

Who do you mean? The murder after dark guy (RS) I was talking about.

 

[Tresir]

No, the newer ones. You said in the post I responded to of yours that you took a screen shot I took to mean of the ones in emu's guy's video.

Yes I screenshot emu guy's (RS) depictions. Haven't got a screenshot of the previous ones I saw.

 

[GrandmaBear]

For all we know he watched Criminal Minds. Or took that off a TV show. Or cloud watching. Surely, we've all done that. Oh, there's a giraffe cloud!

I get too little time and always too rushed and can't keep up so forgive me for asking but I'm lost. Who do you mean and in relation to what?

 

[GrandmaBear]

I already posted that I was wrong about his explaining the symbolism.

Well I don't understand that since his key point is that. If they look so much like anything in particular then share it and show it. I note you haven't either. Do you have ones in mind, which are they, pics of runes and what are their meanings? IF this is the case, where are the comparisons?? I get you just believe this guy. He shared no comparison symbols but have YOU looked them up and said gosh darn it THIS is exactly that symbol on LIbby and this one is the one one on Abby? Share them if so please.

If not, then understandable but since he didn't and you haven't either, I then would have to say there's a reason for that with him, and as for you, you just are believing what he says without real basis OR you know there is nothing that obvious or as obscure or even more so than the "F" on the tree and some just want to make it into this.

 

[RoundPeg]

I get too little time and always too rushed and can't keep up so forgive me for asking but I'm lost. Who do you mean and in relation to what?

I'm talking about the subject of posing bodies.

 

[GrandmaBear]

If they dressed themselves wouldn't they both be dressed in their own clothes though?
Also re the staging, one of the stick pics a commenter on reddit mentioned tarot cards, so I looked at tarot cards and one does look a bit like the upside down hangman tarot card. Upside down hangman is actually right way up. I will post a pic of that tarot card. I have also heard comparisons to the Statue of Liberty, presumably because one had their arm raised.

I don't necessarily believe they were staged or placed though. I think L could have been killed quickly and then he only had A to control.

Here's a link to the hanged man tarot card. It has the original depiction it was based on with St.Peter in a stained glass window plus images on cards.

The Hanged Man (tarot card) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Looks like this is where they got their Odin defence from.

"In other interpretations, The Hanged Man is a depiction of the Norse god Odin, who suspended himself from a tree in order to gain knowledge. There is also a Christian interpretation that portrays Judas Iscariot, and include the bags of silver in his hands. In the Lo Scarabeo African American tarot deck the 12th card of the major arcana is the Observer, depicting the Nigerian god "Ifa" of fate and destiny blindfolded and surrounded by eyes."

Well LIbby was the one with the arm extended per emu's guy but he didn't relate her to the statue of liberty, he related that to abby possibly having a "crown" of sticks. Am talking of emu's guy.

I took a quick look at your tarot link and yah, it could be anything from Christianity to tarot to Odin/Norse to astrology.... I came in on your link some bit below the pic and read that part first...

Also what about this relates to a hanged man? I don't see where you or the reddit thing is connecting a reason to look at a hanged man thing? What I mean is where does that leap come from to even look at a hanged man thing?

Even if L was killed right away and I have no opinion on that as who knows, she was staged if the the depictions are right just in terms of her arms...Imo.

As far as dressing, I am pretty sure we covered this with you before in this thread that Abby was under his control and she could have been ordered to dress in Libby's clothes, she could have been just ordered to dress and in the worst shock, fear and incapability of her life, she grabbed Libby's clothing or only had access to Libby's. You seem to be assuming some calm girl just naturally putting her own clothes back on as if this is a sane moment on a sane day. I am not always sure on things but I am sure this has been discussed with you previously here and you even agreed, not just with me, I think the other was Olenna but that I am unsure of.

So in your view the perp dressed them? While alive or dead?

I don't think Libby was clothed or fully clothed was she?

This also all takes time. And if you don't think they were staged or there was a different crime scene, then in your scenario there is a short window of time to do this.

The tarot thing is interesting and shows it could be many a thing or belief besides O-ism but just the fact people are trying to find this sh*t in there I don't entirely get the leap to that either, you don't believe there was any staging etc. so where do you get the hanging man thing and make that jump to begin with?

And I think we should point something else out, doesn't the idea that Abby was in Libby's clothing come from the defense filing? We have never heard that prior and it has not been confirmed since that either even with pics has it? I think emu's guy talked of a bit what she had on but there is now debate too over whether Libby was in jeans or sweats.

If nothing else, this has all created a big stir as they wanted and now we have people looking at tarot cards! NOT YOU I don't mean but on Reddit, etc. Defense caused the stir they wanted but are also now off the case and don't seem to be the fountain of truth right...?

 

[GrandmaBear]

I'm talking about the subject of posing bodies.

But who do you mean by "he"? You aren't being confusing, I just am confused in not knowing which post or he you are referring to.

 

[RoundPeg]

But who do you mean by "he"? You aren't being confusing, I just am confused in not knowing which post or he you are referring to.

The subject we've been discussing is Rick Allen posing the bodies of Abby and Libby.

 

[Tresir]

Well LIbby was the one with the arm extended per emu's guy but he didn't relate her to the statue of liberty, he related that to abby possibly having a "crown" of sticks. Am talking of emu's guy.

I took a quick look at your tarot link and yah, it could be anything from Christianity to tarot to Odin/Norse to astrology.... I came in on your link some bit below the pic and read that part first...

Also what about this relates to a hanged man? I don't see where you or the reddit thing is connecting a reason to look at a hanged man thing? What I mean is where does that leap come from to even look at a hanged man thing?

Even if L was killed right away and I have no opinion on that as who knows, she was staged if the the depictions are right just in terms of her arms...Imo.

As far as dressing, I am pretty sure we covered this with you before in this thread that Abby was under his control and she could have been ordered to dress in Libby's clothes, she could have been just ordered to dress and in the worst shock, fear and incapability of her life, she grabbed Libby's clothing or only had access to Libby's. You seem to be assuming some calm girl just naturally putting her own clothes back on as if this is a sane moment on a sane day. I am not always sure on things but I am sure this has been discussed with you previously here and you even agreed, not just with me, I think the other was Olenna but that I am unsure of.

So in your view the perp dressed them? While alive or dead?

I don't think Libby was clothed or fully clothed was she?

This also all takes time. And if you don't think they were staged or there was a different crime scene, then in your scenario there is a short window of time to do this.

The tarot thing is interesting and shows it could be many a thing or belief besides O-ism but just the fact people are trying to find this sh*t in there I don't entirely get the leap to that either, you don't believe there was any staging etc. so where do you get the hanging man thing and make that jump to begin with?

And I think we should point something else out, doesn't the idea that Abby was in Libby's clothing come from the defense filing? We have never heard that prior and it has not been confirmed since that either even with pics has it? I think emu's guy talked of a bit what she had on but there is now debate too over whether Libby was in jeans or sweats.

If nothing else, this has all created a big stir as they wanted and now we have people looking at tarot cards! NOT YOU I don't mean but on Reddit, etc. Defense caused the stir they wanted but are also now off the case and don't seem to be the fountain of truth right...?

I can't actually see a crown or horns on those stick pictures. The hangman tarot card though has a halo and also connects to Odin. It is mentioned in the link I posted. Odin killed himself by hanging himself in a tree for six days, which his followers call the tree of life. This is probably why the defence came up with that whole story in the first place. It doesn't mean I believe it. I don't think the bodies were staged. I think he just tried to cover them up and is why he put A's (L's?) clothes back on her. But then couldn't dress L because the clothes wouldn't fit. He then hastily covered them with sticks, leaves etc before leaving quickly and in doing so left the bullet and didn't find L's phone either.

We are all speculating here and I happen to believe he dressed A post mortem and got the wrong clothes on her. I think he ordered them both to undress and that's probably when he racked the gun and the bullet ejected then the clothes covered it. You keep calling it a bullet casing but it was the actual bullet that they found with ejection marks on it which matched RA's gun. This is an important point that links him to the CS.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

Well I don't understand that since his key point is that. If they look so much like anything in particular then share it and show it. I note you haven't either. Do you have ones in mind, which are they, pics of runes and what are their meanings? IF this is the case, where are the comparisons?? I get you just believe this guy. He shared no comparison symbols but have YOU looked them up and said gosh darn it THIS is exactly that symbol on LIbby and this one is the one one on Abby? Share them if so please.

If not, then understandable but since he didn't and you haven't either, I then would have to say there's a reason for that with him, and as for you, you just are believing what he says without real basis OR you know there is nothing that obvious or as obscure or even more so than the "F" on the tree and some just want to make it into this.

I don't think there is anyway beyond millions to one that the bodies just fell like that. I've only heard it once, but supposedly one of the branches has a clean cut to it. Somebody used a saw to take it down. If that's true then the idea that all happened by chance is harder to believe. I don't recall any report of the bodies being covered or attempted to be covered. Saying it was just that he was trying to cover them with leaves, is also just speculation.

It doesn't seem strange to anyone else that the two guards with the Odin patches are the only guards to have tased him? They don't guard him 24/7. None of the other guards had a problem with him "following directions".

What directions did they give him that he didn't follow?