LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]



Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]

Murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

On Feb 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams & Liberty German were discovered in Delphi, #INDIANA. The suspect in their deaths is awaiting trial.

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant, though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." Even with a lot of media coverage, their murders remain unsolved.

www.crimewatchers.net

 

[buyerninety]

Tresir said
..."when he racked the gun and the bullet ejected then the clothes covered it.
You keep calling it a bullet casing but it was the actual bullet that they found
with ejection marks on it which matched RA's gun."


...Says some unnamed Indiana State Police Laboratory person, who said
this was their opinion, which was then no-doubt included as an assertion in
& used by investigative police as evidence in support of a request to obtain
a warrant. You do know? this particular 'evidence' assertion is regarded as
nonsense science, on a level with the 'evidence' that FBI technicians used
to swear on a bible 'proved' that a 'hair' was unique to a particular suspect
(and such science has been shown to be utter BS, and acted as a sometimes
deciding factor in the conviction of innocent people).
I believe the (now gone) Defence lawyers Franks hearing request document
said something about the bullet being found the following day after the girls
were discovered, and either in that document or in that stick figure video it
was asserted the bullet may have been in (meaning pressed into?) the ground.
Also, I understand not under the girls (clothes) but between them.

Cousin Dupree said;
"It doesn't seem strange to anyone else that the two guards with the Odin
patches are the only guards to have tased him?"
Your comment is strange, as I haven't read anyone on here say that.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

Tresir said
..."when he racked the gun and the bullet ejected then the clothes covered it.
You keep calling it a bullet casing but it was the actual bullet that they found
with ejection marks on it which matched RA's gun."


...Says some unnamed Indiana State Police Laboratory person, who said
this was their opinion, which was then no-doubt included as an assertion in
& used by investigative police as evidence in support of a request to obtain
a warrant. You do know? this particular 'evidence' assertion is regarded as
nonsense science, on a level with the 'evidence' that FBI technicians used
to swear on a bible 'proved' that a 'hair' was unique to a particular suspect
(and such science has been shown to be utter BS, and acted as a sometimes
deciding factor in the conviction of innocent people).
I believe the (now gone) Defence lawyers Franks hearing request document
said something about the bullet being found the following day after the girls
were discovered, and either in that document or in that stick figure video it
was asserted the bullet may have been in (meaning pressed into?) the ground.
Also, I understand not under the girls (clothes) but between them.

Cousin Dupree said;
"It doesn't seem strange to anyone else that the two guards with the Odin
patches are the only guards to have tased him?"
Your comment is strange, as I haven't read anyone on here say that.

Nobody here has said it, but it's factual. At least as reported so far. Those two guards are the only two to be involved in tasing RA. It happened twice.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

You'd think the media would be able to scare up an Odinist expert to interpret the crime scene sketches.

 

[Tresir]

Tresir said
..."when he racked the gun and the bullet ejected then the clothes covered it.
You keep calling it a bullet casing but it was the actual bullet that they found
with ejection marks on it which matched RA's gun."


...Says some unnamed Indiana State Police Laboratory person, who said
this was their opinion, which was then no-doubt included as an assertion in
& used by investigative police as evidence in support of a request to obtain
a warrant. You do know? this particular 'evidence' assertion is regarded as
nonsense science, on a level with the 'evidence' that FBI technicians used
to swear on a bible 'proved' that a 'hair' was unique to a particular suspect
(and such science has been shown to be utter BS, and acted as a sometimes
deciding factor in the conviction of innocent people).
I believe the (now gone) Defence lawyers Franks hearing request document
said something about the bullet being found the following day after the girls
were discovered, and either in that document or in that stick figure video it
was asserted the bullet may have been in (meaning pressed into?) the ground.
Also, I understand not under the girls (clothes) but between them.

Cousin Dupree said;
"It doesn't seem strange to anyone else that the two guards with the Odin
patches are the only guards to have tased him?"
Your comment is strange, as I haven't read anyone on here say that.

Do you have any links for
1. the bullet being between the girls and not under clothes? ( I believe it was between the girls but the clothes were too. A's clothes that wouldn't fit L. )
2. Nonsense science relating to the bullet identified to have ejected from RA's gun?

The Frank's hearing document isn't evidence, I don't believe. I think it previously would have been in the PCA and/or the AA though IMO.

My 2cents on the tasing comment by Cuz.

Maybe the majority of the guards have these patches and tase inmates. We don't know do we? Also he would have more than just these two guards, maybe two to three shifts a day and he has been there a year, so only 2 taser incidents in a year is not a lot so he has been pretty well behaved IMO.

 

[Tresir]

You'd think the media would be able to scare up an Odinist expert to interpret the crime scene sketches. View attachment 20542

They don't need to - we have done it on here LOL.

 

[Tresir]

Article that has the probable cause affidavit in it for confirming facts.

Delphi murders: Unspent bullet at scene ties Richard Allen to girls’ deaths, court docs allege

An unspent .40-caliber bullet found less than two feet from the body of Liberty “Libby” German in 2017 is key evidence tying Allen, a CVS pharmacy technician, to the murders of Liberty "Libby" German and her best friend, Abigail “Abby” Williams.

www.kiro7.com

This was posted earlier in the thread when it was unsealed but that was some time ago now.

 

[GrandmaBear]

The subject we've been discussing is Rick Allen posing the bodies of Abby and Libby.

So you were saying that Allen himself may have gotten such ideas from Criminal Minds and other such things right? That is the "he" you mean? If so, I entirely agree and my thoughts go that way as well. I think he had a fantasy a sick one but also a plan...

 

[GrandmaBear]

I can't actually see a crown or horns on those stick pictures. The hangman tarot card though has a halo and also connects to Odin. It is mentioned in the link I posted. Odin killed himself by hanging himself in a tree for six days, which his followers call the tree of life. This is probably why the defence came up with that whole story in the first place. It doesn't mean I believe it. I don't think the bodies were staged. I think he just tried to cover them up and is why he put A's (L's?) clothes back on her. But then couldn't dress L because the clothes wouldn't fit. He then hastily covered them with sticks, leaves etc before leaving quickly and in doing so left the bullet and didn't find L's phone either.

We are all speculating here and I happen to believe he dressed A post mortem and got the wrong clothes on her. I think he ordered them both to undress and that's probably when he racked the gun and the bullet ejected then the clothes covered it. You keep calling it a bullet casing but it was the actual bullet that they found with ejection marks on it which matched RA's gun. This is an important point that links him to the CS.

Yeah I always thought it was a bullet but then thought it got changed in here or somewhere I saw along the way and thought I was wrong about it being a bullet. Not sure, I just know it was not fired right but ejected? Because I used to say he likely did that to scare or control the girls. Anyhow, no problem correcting, to BULLET.

None of us entirely match on our thoughts and most allow for more than one possibility too and I don't think that's surprising given this case. And then now add to the O wrench thrown in. I think most were in agreement on Allen before that although Cuz wasn't convinced but he like any of us vary o 100 percent certainty of one or more, Allen, etc. anyhow.

I agree for one with you that the girls were likely made to undress. Both of them. At gunpoint or holding one at knife point even under threat while telling the other what to do. When and how Abby was dressed, I don't know. I don't disagree but don't agree either. I think for all the SMOKE little is proven with that either. Granted I haven't watch many but how many people saw these photos and yet the couple I've watched have nothing to convince me what she was wearing or how they are sure. JUST as NO ONE has explained the positioning and O symbols and what they represent. So many say they believe it all and some have seen the pics and YET no one gives the detail to make it so.

Now we have the one from Emu's guy that claims he is hearing it is Abby's blood on Libby's hands YET he can't confirm it of course.

Prosecution imo should be given SOME credit, their response to the Franks hearing filing was brief and offered little in response to all of the wild sh*t in it and so we don't know what the defense is twisting, assuming or leaving out. Like however it went about how one person could dress Abby getting no blood on her in the time he had AND that assumes HE dressed her as you are. Not saying it isn't the case, I don't know because it stems from the defense...I mean HOW could anyone have dressed her EVEN more people without doing that unless she had already bled out and it had been longer than that short period of time on that day. It all just boggles imo BUT all the new sh*t some tink they know came from the defense. What is it even that convinces Abby was in Libby's clothing and which/what parts of it, etc.? What was found for the clothing of either girl not on them and lying there at the scene or in the creek or WHAT was MISSING and never found? Unless of course it showed up in the Allen property search...

I like you think Allen did this crime but there are a few key reasons I do as well. Nothing will change my mind on that unless the key reasons are false. Or one of them, maybeee... I'm not a juror nor going to be one there none of us are and even those living there since they discuss somewhere like here would never likely be picked either. if venue changed again to their county, etc. But that is sidetracking, my POINT is NOTHING the defense filed takes Allen out of it. Nothing takes away Allen being on the trail and placing himself there. Nothing takes away the bullet. And then my point is EVEN IF the Franks thing was won and the warrant and what they found ditched, WE already know the bullet matched his gun. Now if it was all ditched the jury may never hear it or the case may lose legs but it won't change MY opinion because we know these things already. They of course would like to or need to find jurors that don't know such if it HAD been ruled inadmissible due to illegal search or whatever one wants to call what the defense claims but again WE KNOW OF IT.

I have tried to be fair and reverse a thing or too and be fair like try to come up with WHAT if ALLEN is being framed? IT doesn't work. That's another long post as to why but most all here can think of the reasons why that doesn't work and is way too farfetched for what it would take... I don't have the oomph or time or words right now to sort those thoughts but it does NOT FLY. First and foremost is Allen coming forward but that tip being lost and no one knowing of him for years.

Anyhow I am wandering, destressing after a long, long number of days and my days off are nonexistent as booked solid taking care of sh*t including travel to take care of sh*t and then right back to work.

 

[RoundPeg]

So you were saying that Allen himself may have gotten such ideas from Criminal Minds and other such things right? That is the "he" you mean? If so, I entirely agree and my thoughts go that way as well. I think he had a fantasy a sick one but also a plan...

Yes.

 

[GrandmaBear]

I can't actually see a crown or horns on those stick pictures. The hangman tarot card though has a halo and also connects to Odin. It is mentioned in the link I posted. Odin killed himself by hanging himself in a tree for six days, which his followers call the tree of life. This is probably why the defence came up with that whole story in the first place. It doesn't mean I believe it. I don't think the bodies were staged. I think he just tried to cover them up and is why he put A's (L's?) clothes back on her. But then couldn't dress L because the clothes wouldn't fit. He then hastily covered them with sticks, leaves etc before leaving quickly and in doing so left the bullet and didn't find L's phone either.

We are all speculating here and I happen to believe he dressed A post mortem and got the wrong clothes on her. I think he ordered them both to undress and that's probably when he racked the gun and the bullet ejected then the clothes covered it. You keep calling it a bullet casing but it was the actual bullet that they found with ejection marks on it which matched RA's gun. This is an important point that links him to the CS.

I don't believe either the O thing but do believe the bodies were staged. I don't think they were a natural fall and die pose where they died. The branches are another thing but I DO believe Allen posed the girls. I agree with you on some, a lot actually, and of course none of us know, but I don't see how you think the girls died in these poses. IF Emu's guy is telling truth, and that is a big IF, Abby looked peaceful but when asked about Libby he said and acted like unsure but thought her eyes were open and couldn't say peaceful etc. which led a viewer to assume Abby's eyes were closed. Well I can TELL you from witnessing deathbed deaths of too many in my own family that means it is every likely Allen (or whoever the perp is) closed Abby's yes before too long after death but never did the same for Libby. THIS COMES FROM ME and where our family was in SUCH grief as we went through a death we had never known what day it would come and all left the room upset beyond what can be imagined from anyone who has not been through such just to take a breath. and you can't go back and close the eyes after not too long. I could share more but hard memories PLUS personal but I can say that that remark from Emu's guy who probably doesn't know **** about that made me think he took care with Abby but not with Libby. That of course is IF he is sharing truth about the photos he saw and he also says others must have seen or been sent different ones than he had, etc., etc. Makes it all a bit suspect. I may have actually watched more of that video than emu even did.

But the mileage some podcasters AND news are getting out of this is understandable but sickening since they DO NOT that i've heard yet here or elsewhere give the O message these bodies and staging sent. As Emu said, why can't they get an O guy or expert to explain to us what this says in O-ism? Nor did this podcaster apparently look it up or have anything. He implied he did and just kind of said as if being fair that people needed to look for themselves as to what runes they thought they were AND implied he knew. He doesn't know sh*t imo that was his way of doing such a show. he never found sh*t nor llooked up sh*t. No one has. WHERE is this MESSAGE and what symbols are they and what does the staging mean? NADA. The ONLY thing to date that anyone tried to say or show was that joke of an F on a tree.

HERE Is an idea. Let's get the guards who are Os to interpret the message and make a deal not on murder but just interpreting some OTHER O's symbols and staging. Hahahahaha. FIRST I doubt they know O runes and SECOND if they did, nothing here matches them or the entire media and podcasters would be placing it all side by side in thier shows and research to SHOW US ALL and NO ONE IS.

NO ONE. NOT MSM not the podcasters that are believing this defense sh*t. NO ONE.

NOTHING BUT that "F" has been put out there and by the way if it was an "F" tell me putting it together with the bodies and sticks what the message is? There ISN'T one. I DO think there IS in that RA tried to muddle things but part was also is sick fantasy. Oh emu's guy mentioned a possible asterisk and a crown, at very different times and not in any relation. If this was Os and an O plan and group then an O could interpret the total message and name the other symbols and meanings.

Yeah, I know, I am coming off quite a week. Rambling and defusing to try to relax for the few minutes I will get before another week. I would like to have worded better and made it more specific but I think there are parts in here that some will get what I mean.

There have been NO comparisons other than the letter F to Os and we ALL have the letter F in our lives EVEN if it WAS an F. Wow, that's a huge boom. NOT. It is almost laughable in fact.

 

[GrandmaBear]

I don't think there is anyway beyond millions to one that the bodies just fell like that. I've only heard it once, but supposedly one of the branches has a clean cut to it. Somebody used a saw to take it down. If that's true then the idea that all happened by chance is harder to believe. I don't recall any report of the bodies being covered or attempted to be covered. Saying it was just that he was trying to cover them with leaves, is also just speculation.

It doesn't seem strange to anyone else that the two guards with the Odin patches are the only guards to have tased him? They don't guard him 24/7. None of the other guards had a problem with him "following directions".

What directions did they give him that he didn't follow?

For me we are talking about two different things. The way the bodies were displayed or staged or maybe @Tresir finds natural I see as two very different things and I feel you do the same but have opposing views on both but group both things.

For ME I agree with you that NO WAY the bodies just feel like that and slim chance they laid half dying and died in such poses either. I cannot even fathom how anyone can think that IF the portrayals are as they were. But on the sticks I differ. I'm not sure what that is BUT I am sure of this much, sticks and leaves did not move and fall in less than 24 hours as at least one I heard was out there saying. Other than that, I'm not sure, it may have been an attempt to cover but why cover up the SCENE you made EXCEPT maybe he already got his jollies and his pictures for himself or to share with pedo buddies or sell... If it was ANY attempt to make it look like some type of symbols or starts on such, then it was intentional to throw suspicion not just at Os but everywhere and anywhere and confuse because NO ONE can even translate an O message here.

Yet I agree with Tresir that this was a singular killer and it is Allen. That's my OVERALL leaning. It just reeks of a game playing SK type with SK types of fantasies, etc. Or a budding SK.

But like anyone there is much to wonder about even through the years. On "your" guy's show, which I didn't watch even half of but may have watched more than you, someone in the chat mentioned remember/ That Becky Patty said "they have our girls". Who is they? Was that quote actual? I recall it after seeing that last night or the night before I am so tired who knows, but it reminded me I heard that before through the years. Then your guy thinks it is related to the Flora fire and then someone in chat reminded Becky Patty appraised the place or some such... Did she mean the Os is I am sure what the one who remarked was implying...

I don't know any longer what is fact or fiction, so MUCH has been speculated through these years, I've sure done so, everyone mostly has, and i did so even before coming to CW. LE has kept all close to the vest through the years and still do but at the same time now look like an agency who loses tips of a man who was THERE and more... I think tis world is at a place and has been for awhile that they need to realize both the power, benefits and drawbacks of an online community. Sharing more at the start and in the early years may have helped.

I still think it is Allen and I don't believe for an INSTANT that Allen is a patsy or framed by LE BUT the usual old school way and what used to be smart way I guess... Of LE keeping quiet isn't working any longer. LOOK at what this now we know CORRUPT defense did and caused here. Look at just all of us discussing it. And rrespectfully disagreeing and wondering. Prosecution did file a response and professionally did not go down their road and just hit the law and what mattered.

However in the Kouri Richins case the prosecution came back swinging but not out of line, just saying well THEN give us the rest of the pages, etc. AND a manuscript for a book is not atty client privilege etc.

THey DO need to keep most investigative facts to themselves and not share with the public but defenses are USING the fact they KNOW the otehr side won't or can't. That's the way it is and has been through years but it has changed. Kohberger is another one. GIVE IT BACK. You do NOT need to share all but you can SWING BACK. That is what is going on in Richins.

Okay. I have totally vented and somewhat defused but not entirely. I filled out my juror questionnaire online. Yes, do you think they should waste their time and mine with summoning me just to put me through loss of work, travel, wages, only to boot me if I get into the box for furthering questioning? Lol though I am very FAIR on cases I know nothing about and would be entirely so if a juror regardless. 100% different than spouting off here. I would never take anything lightly or not look at all.

And I did a list for the mechanic when we leave my car with him.

Ain't got another thing done of the 100 I have to have done by afternoon tomorrow and I really wait for a day off to sleep in and then hit things but don't dare. I am so tired but also in need of just getting some defusing down time and following some crime so that is what this is but it is also my opinion.

 

[GrandmaBear]

So the leaker is known and even there is an interview out there by him, etc. about working with this law firm, etc. earlier this year. I am going to guess some or most here know who he is and who the suicided guy is. I don't.

So all news and podcasters and other talking heads and attys etc. are talking of it but do not name... But they know and say every single thing and hint around it to tell but won't name. I find that incredibly ridiculous and I know, I know, they are being responsible by not naming or are in fear of the court or ruining the case would be my guess as to why most would say this is, but that doesn't hold water because they are doing everything BUT naming them to point to or indicate who they are.

I awoke this morning of and on for a few hour kind of in and out of sleep with this case bothering the heck out of me. I wasn't really awake, all know this type of "sleep", would doze back off, etc. and dream on this case or more on like trying to make sense of what is wrong here... Took me by surprise because I barely get time to keep up, have plenty of my own to worry about you'd think would be what my subconscious self would be worried about more and trying to work out first, and would not have said it was "bothering" me any worse than anything else or any case, etc.

Alas NO, I had no great revelations...

What the defense has done and how far they went and RISKED their careers is certainly one thing. I feel as though there is some bigger war being waged or competition and I am having trouble believing they went this far out for their client or because they believe in his innocence.

But on the part of just the case, forgetting all that, I keep coming back to what they didn't say... And what it is they need thrown out with the warrant. Of course all think it is the bullet but in the same breath they and some others keep knocking that science as nothing so they sure went ALL OUT and again risked careers over that... I am pretty sure they said there is no DNA placing Allen and nothing was found on his phones, don't quote me, or something like that. Knowing how each side ONLY takes what benefits them to put in their filings, etc. and carefully leaves out anything that hurts what they claim, that keeps coming to me. I feel for one (maybe I hope but think I feel by wording) that something/s were found that they are skirting? Photos? Clothing? I just don't think it is all about the bullet.... Besides we already KNOW about the bullet. I get they'd hope jurors would never know or hear about it but again that just doesn't seem like enough reason for what they did here.

Beyond that though it feels like something else goes on in this case, like there is some undercurrent, some unknown, some huge battle or cover for something or someone and I sure do NOT mean Os. Or is it just ego or fame? Seems like more and possibly something on BOTH SIDES. It COULD be just the Kline thing, pedo ring thing on the pros side OR I just get that feeling as they DO keep their mouths shut as to all of that AND of anything they've found with the warrant...With the defense side though there was just a SUICIDE (allegedly)! They write a crazy filing and then release photos to it seems EVERY reporter and podcaster in this nation or they get dispersed that fast somehow to ALL. I can't understand the risk of career other than for one, they were that SURE they wouldn't be found out and would have a "win", that they thought themselves smarter than others. HOWEVER, it REEKS more of desperation. All of us and others think that desperation is all about Allen's confessions, the bullet, etc. but did they REALLY go this far for him and for that? It doesn't feel like all of it for me, it feels like more personal need or fear to go that big. Of course it could always be one of the age old reasons of MONEY. Even an attorney may be blinded by a huge offer of money and fame and start picturing a life with both... That doesn't really feel like it though either. Who KNOWS! Anyhow it was heavy on my mind this morning in sleep and my brain apparently wanting to find some logic in all of this case where little seems present right now.

I think too is just the amount of corrupt and unethical behavior we are seeing from attorneys in these cases lately. I am pretty certain Skye Lazarro lied for Kouri Richins and she should have dropped her arse like a hot coal so with her too, is it about fame? Winning? At all costs? I do not believe, I am sorry, they would throw their careers away for one client, same in this case, OR CARE THAT MUCH for a client. We have of course Murdaugh and at least one other attorney buddy of his (I don't doubt there are others). We have the attorneys here. Do not even get me started on old Lie-rus Eytan OR her partner and their "connections". Morphew. Frazee. One of their buddies in Stauch even. A lot of corrupt in CO.

Anywhooo I don't know. I haven't caught up with a single thread and posts and probably won't. So know that this will just land where it does, just my thoughts, without my even knowing what current conversation is. Two days off but not a single day off because they are booked with huge things to deal with. MAY steal a minute here and there today or tonight and tomorrow night but not even sure of that.

One closing remark. Silencing this suicide and any investigation or who it is etc. is going to blow up. While the pics and the suicide may relate to this case, it is a SEPARATE case all on its own also or both are. They have taken too long already. it needs to be addressed to some extent to the public imo. Whose jurisdiction is the "alleged" suicide? I am sure some here likely know where the man was from. Local?

 

[buyerninety]

I've seen on WS the man's name given as Mitch Westerman, reference
is made there to some interview he was in (I EDIT:CAN'Tcan find it on YT), he's a
supposed blowhard, not stated anywhere if it said if this is also the name
of the suicider.

@Tresir said:
Do you have any links for
1. the bullet being between the girls and not under clothes? ( I believe it was
between the girls but the clothes were too. A's clothes that wouldn't fit L. )
2. Nonsense science relating to the bullet identified to have ejected from RA's
gun?

I understood it was well known the bullet was found between the bodies (heck,
it even states it in the Delphi Murders Wiki), I understand one of the girls had
clothes on her - having trouble understanding how the clothes are on a girl,
a girl is on the ground, the bullet is between the girls - how is the bullet under
the clothes then? This ain't no Danny Kaye musical, so if you ever get to see
those pictures of the crime scence and if there are any clothes between
the girls in the photo, well, for sure correct & educate me.................... .
Bullet allegedly identified to have allegedly ejected from RA's gun - RA's
(previous) attorneys described the alleged bullet match I.D. as "anything
but a science", so OK, hit me up for an IMO.

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/12/PRESS-RELEASE-for-Richard-Allen-002.pdf

Tresir said:
"Article that has the probable cause affidavit in it for confirming facts."

Probable Cause Affidavit contains alleged facts, alleged by the
Indiana arresting and/or prosecuting authority. Plenty of examples where
Indiana arresting and/or prosecuting authority made untrue allegations,
for example;
Former Cop Spends 13 Years in Prison Due to Wrongful Conviction
No charges against Brookville, Indiana, police officers accused of arresting candidate they thought was anti-police
Hart v. Mannina, 798 F.3d 578 | Casetext Search + Citator

... and now, for instance, we have the allegation from the defence
that Sheriff Tony Liggett falsely inserted 'bloody' into a witness
statement. (So no muddy and bloody... just muddy).

 

[GrandmaBear]

What I heard last night, don't have time to fully catch up here or talk of all is that the guy who worked in the office was NOT the suicider. Two different people. Came from a pretty reputable show imo and sources. The suicider is not the one in the interview.

And I use suicider lightly, is there one thing out there about how this is a suicide or anything proving such? I honestly don't know.

 

[GrandmaBear]

So I am going to assume guy who worked in office is still alive and well and his name is known is that the guy you named?

 

[buyerninety]

Truly, I wasn't that interested in who it was, here is a link so
you can track it back if you desire;
IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #169

 

[GrandmaBear]

Tresir said
..."when he racked the gun and the bullet ejected then the clothes covered it.
You keep calling it a bullet casing but it was the actual bullet that they found
with ejection marks on it which matched RA's gun."


...Says some unnamed Indiana State Police Laboratory person, who said
this was their opinion, which was then no-doubt included as an assertion in
& used by investigative police as evidence in support of a request to obtain
a warrant. You do know? this particular 'evidence' assertion is regarded as
nonsense science, on a level with the 'evidence' that FBI technicians used
to swear on a bible 'proved' that a 'hair' was unique to a particular suspect
(and such science has been shown to be utter BS, and acted as a sometimes
deciding factor in the conviction of innocent people).
I believe the (now gone) Defence lawyers Franks hearing request document
said something about the bullet being found the following day after the girls
were discovered, and either in that document or in that stick figure video it
was asserted the bullet may have been in (meaning pressed into?) the ground.
Also, I understand not under the girls (clothes) but between them.

Cousin Dupree said;
"It doesn't seem strange to anyone else that the two guards with the Odin
patches are the only guards to have tased him?"
Your comment is strange, as I haven't read anyone on here say that.

It is funny how the news runs with the people who diss the science on the bullet where there is entirely another school of thought on it out there. But then the news also runs with the O thing etc. I don't have much time but if I get a minute I will find and put one up where he disagreed or someone did with him on a show not long ago. He certainly has the background to know what he talks of.

If there is ANYTHING at all to the science and the marks on the bullet, let's remember Allen can't take himself away from the trails AND that THIS bullet was found near the girls AND that this bullet matched however perfect or imperfect anyone thinks it is, on testing.

As for Emu's remark on the tasing, two times in a year doesn't seem like much to me and I have no idea if he is right as to how many guards watched Allen either AND if each one did it once or one did it twice. If they were attempting to abuse and force him into anything over a year, I don't think it would be only two times. I will only say the jury is out on that one, I am not buying it though as to more going on. This case and his treatment has been under such scrutiny for MONTHS that I just don't see it, he more likely is treated with kid gloves compared to others but who knows? Such does and has went on I guess. Like I said I think the jury is still out. It isn't like though the tasing wasn't acknowlledged. It was.

I see Allen as a SERIOUS game player but I can't say I am right. It is just a gut instinct but it stays with me. Hard.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Nobody here has said it, but it's factual. At least as reported so far. Those two guards are the only two to be involved in tasing RA. It happened twice.

And was documented, was it not?

 

[GrandmaBear]

You'd think the media would be able to scare up an Odinist expert to interpret the crime scene sketches. View attachment 20542

You would think wouldn't ya? And all podcasters who claim such too or at least find the symbols themselves and show them and do their best to interpret if so clear they are such symbols.

I suspect it is anything but clear or close to such and that is why. They wouldn't get the mileage and views out of this stuff if it was shown and basically dismissed as not even close like the F on the tree was. IF it was an F.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Do you have any links for
1. the bullet being between the girls and not under clothes? ( I believe it was between the girls but the clothes were too. A's clothes that wouldn't fit L. )
2. Nonsense science relating to the bullet identified to have ejected from RA's gun?

The Frank's hearing document isn't evidence, I don't believe. I think it previously would have been in the PCA and/or the AA though IMO.

My 2cents on the tasing comment by Cuz.

Maybe the majority of the guards have these patches and tase inmates. We don't know do we? Also he would have more than just these two guards, maybe two to three shifts a day and he has been there a year, so only 2 taser incidents in a year is not a lot so he has been pretty well behaved IMO.

I can't offer on the bullet but known it was at the scene, I thought between the girls but I know it was not found when the girls were found right?

I do not agree that the bullet science is nonsense. It is what defense experts, defense atrys. and overly pro defendant types say. It may not be as perfect as solid DNA but I'm not sure I'd even say that. And in this case add the fact he was there and that it matched his gun and did not EXCLUDE his gun just at minimum.

I am going to look for something I watched on it to link but who knows who will even bother watching it but just like defense "experts" and prosecution experts in other things thee are far different opinions. Of course news, etc. wants anything that causes questions.... Like the Os did.