LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

1581272168478.png

Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


1581272119747.png


 
Last edited by a moderator:
There is no way in hl that RL could have made it from the Lafayette fish store to Delphi in 9 minutes, arriving in Delphi at 5:30. That receipt was dated 5:21.

I drove the road from Delphi to Lafayette many times as a college student. You are looking at a 20 min-30 minute drive. If the fish store is by the Lafayette mall, closer to 40 minutes. Maybe 20 minutes from Lafayette to Delphi if you ignore the speed limits and want to risk getting a ticket on a 2 lane curving road with cornfields and several small hills on either side, which is pretty much what the road from Delphi to Lafayette is. I am betting he arrived back in Delphi a lot closer to 6 p.m.

Add to that it was a weekday. He would have run into the 5 p.m. rush hour work traffic leaving Lafayette.
This is what happens when one is behind, I should have read a post or two further before I responded to Tresir that it is no hour and a half but you are responding to emu thinking it's shorter.

Good to hear it from someone who actually knows the area and has done that very actual drive. That's the best way to know. I just googled distance between the two Cities and i thought I mentioned it to him before he said that too.

I also now Delphi is the county seat and the biggest city in Delphi at like 5 to 6K. So Lafayette has to be in another county right? I didn't go look, I based it on the fact Delphi was the largest in Carroll County which I also found googling.
 
MOO. MOO, MOO:
If he was involved, I don't see a 70 year old physically helping move their bodies as far as carrying them.
I would be curious as to what equipment was on the property and who had access to it. Front loader? Tractor with wagon attached? No one driving by would think twice if they saw a tractor or some sort of equipment moving in a field in February on a fairly nice day. " He's getting an early start on plowing while the weather is nice" and drives merrily down the road on their way.
Maybe helping dispose of some items, yes, if he knew who the perp(s) was/were. Remember how LE was searching for, and asked the public to be on the lookout for, any backpacks that may have been disposed of, especially dark color backpacks.

And on RA and KK knowing each other, maybe. It is possible that they knew OF each other thru their online activities, but had never actually met each other in person.

An analogy would be Regular Person knows of Famous Celebrity, the movies they have starred in, who they are dating, what their newest project is, awards shows Celebrity has attended, etc.but has never actually met Famous Celebrity in person.
That's how I feel with the KK and RA thing. I think there is "some" connection but it doesn't have to be working together nor KK even being there nor like you say them even closely knowing each other or anything like that. It could simply be they knew the screen name person, saw the same chat or site and the back and forth with the girls or who knows. But it also could be far more than that. I just think the bridge and meeting the girls there is going to tie in some miniscule to bigger way to Kline also having set up a meeting there with Libby. Whether he TOLD someone else hey, they wan to meet with Shots but you go buddy OR it was being arranged on the Shots page back and forth on when and where by "Shots" with the girls and others saw it including Allen, maybe even through his daughter... Seems more likely to me though that he had to be a part of it somehow, the page, knowing KK or the dropbox... Doesn't have to mean he knew who he really was, just that he was another pervert...

I do not know. I just don't think the uncanniness can be ignored which I've already said in other posts so won't go on about, that KK was to meet Libby right where RA ended up cornering the girls. Same girls. Same place. Add in all the Kline activity just prior to the very big surprise arrest of RA. I'll leave it at that.
 
Who are you addressing here? Me or GBear. I will answer one more time but I am not wasting any more posts on RL.

There is no mountain, it is an ant hill and he is no longer a POI. Let the guy RIP.


I just saw it and am not sure either. He meant you or I for sure.

There is no mountain of evidence re RL. I watched his thing. None of it is "evidence". Evidence RL lied is about it. I'm talking solid evidence, not was he calling his niece or brother or gf at such and such a time because oh boy he called someone the night the girls disappeared at such and such a time. All was like that or even less.

I'm actually kind of ashamed of it if it came from an agent. And I'd seen it in the past. And didn't see much in it then even though I did consider him, RL It was long before RA's arrest.

If I recall and have the right thing in mind, it was the attempt for a warrant.

I'm kind of done with the RL thing. I'm starting to get a bit mean over hearing it when it's all been gone through before which most things have that any of us think. This is the most active thread but there isn't any new news short of the recent decision finally made so hopefully the case can get going again in the SLOW way such cases do or until another mess is created by the D. I hop out of here for a week or more at a time sometimes because there is action in other cases I can't keep up on either. I have great interest in this one and like it as there's more discussion but most of it is the same as where we've been as to theories and opinions as to what is going on, self included.

There's a lot of other cases that could use the interest and discussion imo and it would be fresher discussion. Even so, I don't get the time for that either but just sayin'...

As you know for instance, Murdaugh has things going on. There are trials going on, Dulos/Farber for one in the murder of Michelle Troconis. Adam Montgomery is due to be tried in the first week in Feb and decisions are going on there. The mother of the school shooter or both parents not sure, are being tried right now for the fact their son had the gun, etc., first time parents charged in something like this. Many more. Decisions going on in other cases. News in some like Petito.

This case like all is one of my top interest ones but it isn't the only. And I'm done with RL. Short of something new and none of that is.

There's a new member who put up two old cases that may be tied. Two of us so far have been in there and talked to the new member. Check them out. The cases are old but new to me. Unsolved and very possibly connected. In OR.

I just can't keep up and so I guess I try with all that I know of. Hard to add many new ones these days but I hear of a few. That KC 3 fans dead one is odd.

Not leaving or ignoring this one but I'm probably going to keep being behind and missing responses and new posts as when I do try to catch up or think I missed something a lot of it is the same back and forth, me included.

I get into the basement basically never anymore. That's my problem, time, but just want everyone to know when I disappear and then don't catch up, it's because of that, that I want to stay up on other cases too with the almost no time i have and also because I think other cases also could use some discussion and interest.
 
Apparently RA, KK and JC are all in Wabash Correctional now.


Now THAT is interesting. And news to me. And new. You are going to have to help me out, who is JC?

I don't know what thoughts popped into your head on realizing this or anyone else's but I know what thoughts just popped into mine. I think I'll let them marinate and then simmer for a bit. I haven't watched what you linked, only responding to your single statement that both RA and KK are in the same prison.
 
The Logan 2nd search warrant (March 2017) said that Logan (BTW, he was 6 ft tall per previous rap sheets) had a stature similar to BG and that he was a farmer in good physical condition. JMHO

FBI Search Warrant and Affidavit for Search Warrant of Ron Logan’s Property.pdf

In retrospect it's interesting to revisit this search warrant for a variety of things from the early days ...

The 6 foot RL was considered to be consistent with stature to BG in height and heavy-setness ... for the purposes of this SW. They also suggest RL's voice is "not inconsistent" with BG's recorded voice.

No found bullet casing from crime scene mentioned (although that can be held back of course here given the crime scene was on RL's property).

Regardless, BG has a long history of being a dude with amazingly flexible height and stature and age IMO.

JMHO

yeah, yer welcome @Cousin Dupree :flower:
Sounds like a repeat of the video he linked that I watched the other day and with the statements of an agent I'd heard before and some guy reading it that was the very same stuff.
 
With regard to the BG range of between 5'6 and 5'10" height:

RL is 6 feet tall. RA is 5'4".
These out of range suspects are the ONLY suspects that LE found necessary to search (and arrest).
Neither met the BG stature profile. Both off by 2 inches.

I had a bit of time on the w/e to find and quote the FM ... and offer it in the spirit of the "gonna wait for trial" position.


"Tony Liggett has testified under oath that there is no DNA linking Richard Allen to the crime scene.184 Liggett further has testified that he is unaware of anything that links Richard to the crime through his phone, computers or electronics.185 Liggett has further testified that he is unaware of any evidence that links Richard Allen to any weird religious cult group.186

Jerry Holeman has testified to the following: There is no DNA linking Richard Allen to the crime scene.187 No data extracted from Richard Allen’s phone connects him to the murders.188 No data extracted from Libby’s phone connected Richard the murders.189 There is no evidence that Richard Allen is or was connected to any other suspects in the case.190 There is no evidence found on social media that connects Richard Allen to the murders.191 There is no evidence extracted from Richard Allen’s computers that connects him to the murders.192 There is no fingerprint evidence that connects Richard Allen to the murders.193"

above quote from the Franks Mmo, P. 129
Memorandum in Support of Motion for Franks Hearing.pdf

JMHO
 
With regard to the BG range of between 5'6 and 5'10" height:

RL is 6 feet tall. RA is 5'4".
These out of range suspects are the ONLY suspects that LE found necessary to search (and arrest).
Neither met the BG stature profile. Both off by 2 inches.

I had a bit of time on the w/e to find and quote the FM ... and offer it in the spirit of the "gonna wait for trial" position.




above quote from the Franks Mmo, P. 129
Memorandum in Support of Motion for Franks Hearing.pdf

JMHO
BBM. RA is the only person arrested in relation to the murders.

RL was arrested on unrelated charges.
 
Now THAT is interesting. And news to me. And new. You are going to have to help me out, who is JC?

I don't know what thoughts popped into your head on realizing this or anyone else's but I know what thoughts just popped into mine. I think I'll let them marinate and then simmer for a bit. I haven't watched what you linked, only responding to your single statement that both RA and KK are in the same prison.
It's in the title, James Chadwell. One of the things the video suggests is that KK will say to RA " take a plea 'cos they want to hang this on me."
 
BBM. RA is the only person arrested in relation to the murders.

RL was arrested on unrelated charges.

My point above: "With regard to the BG range of between 5'6 and 5'10" height:"

They were both subjects of search warrants based on their "stature" being consistent w/ BG yet they were out of range of BG's range of height.
 
My point above: "With regard to the BG range of between 5'6 and 5'10" height:"

They were both subjects of search warrants based on their "stature" being consistent w/ BG yet they were out of range of BG's range of height.
RA is within the range with boots, hat and hoodie on.

Re the Franks memo, judge Gull has denied a hearing on it. See below link for details and see the Scott Reisch video I posted up thread. Hopefully, that's the last we will see of it.

 
Last edited:
RA is within the range with boots, hat and hoodie on.


RA is 5'4 to top of head, barefooted (per Frank's memo)
5" in prison with shoes on. (per intake prison record)

The height standard for suspect descriptions = height is from floor to top of skull/head. Height doesn't include hair, hats.

My point is not that LE can't pursue POIs that don't match BG. It's that LE has seriously pursued POI's that don't match BG.

IMO, this suggests that a physical match to the BG avatar ... is not required for LE's theory of the case.
Likely, the P is confident in something ... it's just not that BG image. I assume (but don't know) that it's the metadata of that video from Libby's phone.

Does anyone recall the discussion or confirmation of Libby's phone BG video metadata (time and location)?

JMHO
 
Last edited:
A Sherrif's deputy says he was demoted for his work on the murder case, and that he was given the murder case early on and suggested pursuing a particular path to follow, but was overruled. He also ran against the Sherrif's hand picked successor in the election, but lost in the primaries.


I'm very sure that there is some connection to the murders and the Sherrif's department.
 
Last edited:
RA is 5'4 to top of head, barefooted (per Frank's memo)
5" in prison with shoes on. (per intake prison record)

The height standard for suspect descriptions = height is from floor to top of skull/head. Height doesn't include hair, hats.

My point is not that LE can't pursue POIs that don't match BG. It's that LE has seriously pursued POI's that don't match BG.

IMO, this suggests that a physical match to the BG avatar ... is not required for LE's theory of the case.
Likely, the P is confident in something ... it's just not that BG image. I assume (but don't know) that it's the metadata of that video from Libby's phone.

Does anyone recall the discussion or confirmation of Libby's phone BG video metadata (time and location)?

JMHO
He's shrinking in prison !!!!!

Was this 5 inches measurement in Westville or Wabash?

So maybe he was a bit taller 7 years ago. We all shrink with age. How old is he now?
 
Last edited:
A Sherrif's deputy says he was demoted for his work on the murder case, and that he was given the murder case early on and suggested pursuing a particular path to follow, but was overruled. He also ran against the Sherrif's hand picked successor in the election, but lost in the primaries.


I'm very sure that there is some connection to the murders and the Sherrif's department.
I sincerely hope there would be LOL. Have you got a new POI? I can't read the link as it's not available to me. Fox 59 articles are always like that for the UK.

Sure is a lot of :spikeshorse: :poop: coming up connected to this case.
 
Last edited:
RA is 5'4 to top of head, barefooted (per Frank's memo)
5" in prison with shoes on. (per intake prison record)

The height standard for suspect descriptions = height is from floor to top of skull/head. Height doesn't include hair, hats.

My point is not that LE can't pursue POIs that don't match BG. It's that LE has seriously pursued POI's that don't match BG.

IMO, this suggests that a physical match to the BG avatar ... is not required for LE's theory of the case.
Likely, the P is confident in something ... it's just not that BG image. I assume (but don't know) that it's the metadata of that video from Libby's phone.

Does anyone recall the discussion or confirmation of Libby's phone BG video metadata (time and location)?

JMHO
I don't remember reading a discussion of her Metadata. Keep in mind, there is a 43 second video.
 
This is what happens when one is behind, I should have read a post or two further before I responded to Tresir that it is no hour and a half but you are responding to emu thinking it's shorter.

Good to hear it from someone who actually knows the area and has done that very actual drive. That's the best way to know. I just googled distance between the two Cities and i thought I mentioned it to him before he said that too.

I also now Delphi is the county seat and the biggest city in Delphi at like 5 to 6K. So Lafayette has to be in another county right? I didn't go look, I based it on the fact Delphi was the largest in Carroll County which I also found googling.
Lafayette and West Lafayette are in Tippecanoe County. The two cities are right next to each other, separated by the Wabash River. There are two bridges that connect the cities, one at either end of each town. Lafayette was platted out in the mid 1820s. West Lafayette underwent several name changes in the 1800s before becoming known as WL. Wl is where Purdue is located. Many Purdue staff and professors live in Lafayette. When I was a student, the two cities were referred to, and probably still are, as "town (Lafayette) and gown (W.L.)". I am not positive, but I think a 3rd bridge was added after I graduated.

From Purdue, you can walk down a steep hill and across one of the bridges into downtown Lafayette. From the edge of the Purdue campus, it is about a 30-40 minute walk at a brisk pace. I did it many times as a student when I wanted to get away from campus. At the time I was a student, there was a wonderful vintage clothing shop called Vintage Vogue on the second floor of a downtown Lafayette business. I loved to go in there and I did buy several items for my wardrobe. Unfortunately, the store closed in about 1983. There was a candy shop on one of the corners downtown, as well as a hardware store, a two story antique store where the second floor had a few tables and thousands of used old books, and other locally owned businesses.

1706455579969.png
 
Last edited:
Did you watch the Scott Reisch video I posted?

Only the Delphi portion of it. He covered Gull's decisions that happened the beginning of of last week.
(If you mean the motion for suppression supported by the FM - yes, that was denied. But the FM is still with us.)
Reisch characterized Gull's decisions as vindictive towards the D counsel - a correct assessment, I thought.
I'm concerned Gull has opened that structural error door once again. Gull did not support her decisions with any legal briefing ... which means it's Gull's "judicial discretion" against RA's rights to a hearing process once again. We've just been through that, she's well aware. So I see these decisions as deliberate messaging not just to the D counsel but to SCOIN. Almost like she wants to go back there and argue some more. LOL.
Gull left some motions still on the docket undecided and one of them was Rozzi's motion for Gull to recuse. So there's that question of why that wasn't addressed by Gull. Meanwhile, the D seems to still be waiting for the SCOIN's written opinion/decision before making their next move. I don't know why else they'd be waiting to jump on either speedy trial or ask her to proceed on their recusal motion.
JMHO
 

Forum statistics

Threads
2,999
Messages
238,444
Members
953
Latest member
dayday
Back
Top Bottom