LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]



Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]

Murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

On Feb 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams & Liberty German were discovered in Delphi, #INDIANA. The suspect in their deaths is awaiting trial.

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant, though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." Even with a lot of media coverage, their murders remain unsolved.

www.crimewatchers.net

 

[Cousin Dupree]

I guess this is pointless until more comes out. You're "Maybes" and other excuses can't be proven just as much as mine can't. However, I think there is a mountain of evidence pointing to RLs involvement and more than one person being involved.

 

[GrandmaBear]

You seem to think that the perp would walk around without any attempt to hide himself. That doesn't seem logical to me. If BG is Ron Logan he could easily get to the bridge without anybody seeing him. One of the reasons they got a search warrant is because RL had been identified as BG. Suddenly it isn't the 5'11" man anymore. It's the 5'4" man. This doesn't bother you?

RL ALWAYS carried a gun. That's from those who knew him well.



He wasn't driving to the store at the times he claims. He told his cousin to tell cops that he came back between five and five thirty. The receipt is timed at 5:21. He had a lot of free time before he went to the fish store.

He'd never asked his cousin to lie for him before. He didn't ask him to lie about his trip earlier in the day. He wanted an alibi for a specific time frame, that just happened to be when Libby and Abby went missing.

One theory I have is that the girls weren't killed until much later in the day. That might explain the 10pm phone call from the vicinity of the bodies. Maybe "It's done." The FBI agent has some powerful thoughts on it being a group of people involved. I'm 99.99999999% sure more than one was involved, and that RL was one of them.

Also, in the video where Leazenby is interviewed, he sounds like BG too. Similar sounding voices aren't hard to come by. Fortunately, me, my brother and my father are the only three in my family cursed with my strange vocal tones.

RA's gun is the match not RL's.

Do you think it is unusual in the midwest for men to always pack a gun? Many don't but many do. That's hardly an indicator of anything re RL. If he always packed one and he is 70 how many other murders was he charged with in his 70 years and how many gun incidents, etc.? That's just not an argument that holds any weight.

The whole height thing is and has been argued enough here. Honestly the man looks and always has an average 5'7 to me. BUT we don't have a ton of pics of him either, just what LE put out. Not different views angles or wide ones, distant and close. Probably what Libby had. Regardless, you think RL did had phone usage around the time and then RAN around to the other side of the bridge and trails from his home and cornered the girls.

I've said before witnesses have probably been asked if who they saw could have been RL and in more recent times been asked if it could have been RA. We don't know that but I think it's a fair guess and likelihood.

You talk of RL carrying a gun but it wasn't his that was a MATCH. It was RA's.

The eyewitnesses and the voice, etc. aren't the clincher. It is all of it wrapped together and each a dot or puzzle piece. That's what cases ARE many of them. And there is NOT just one witness here that was on the trails or the road but SEVERAL. NO ONE saw anyone else.

I have and can entertain the time of death not being when thought thing and I can and have entertained the group thing, SMALL group at best. A couple, a few. Two or three.

But when one takes it all with the more we know and pares it down to likelihoods now, I think it unlikely.

I never say never almost in cases and possibilities but RL is a slim one. And you seem to think in every case these days it is framing, lies, corruption and every defendant is innocent. It's an expected pattern from you any longer.

I do the same in I often go towards the hub, the parent, a bf or gf in cases BUT with reason AND it is such a likelihood and the odds are. Framing is NOT the likelihood and charging with nothing is NOT either. It has happened sure but it is NOT the norm emu. Every single department is not corrupt. Nor are every single person in them in every state, county or city.

I think more often in some smaller areas they are not equipped, not used to such things and not staffed adequately. Even so, the State was in on this one and the feds.

You think Casey was guilty, Jodi Arias many others but no one nowadays almost. Just those from back when. If all isn't provided to us and sh*t is thrown by the defense (it is what they do) you think it's all framing, etc.

But you can go on about no case against Allen or some such but then convict RL with NO REAL REASONS.

Smdh.

My nephew packs a pistol always. He has never used it or pulled it out one day in his life. Nor killed anyone. Nor has RL to my knowledge but I'm pretty sure RA has and did. There's evidence.

Many voices have been similar or not inconsistent through the years I've listened to and we all have. I admit that but until I heard the one somewhere above here in the last couple of months I have never been able to say THAT IS HIM! Without a doubt. And it was Allen. The ONLY time in listening to oodles over the years.

Even if you don't think so, these things are just PARTS of all that connects everything. And in the same breath you say it is RL which NOTHING connects but speculation. Not one single solitary solid thing.

And no offense but you thought the ID Four were shot by Kohberger when they were stabbed and there was NO gun.

None of us are going to sway the other towards their opinion and you certainly aren't imo.

Even so, as I've said before, I have not 100 percent ruled out RL but it will take finding out more that they know which we aren't about to right now and I doubt it more than I believe it. And it is only WITH RA and in no other way imo. And there's really not a real single solid reason to believe that either.

Of course you're welcome to your theories and thoughts but it is unclear on any given day where you are with them all. Best I can figure you have RL, the Os, the pedos and all involved and LE is corrupt and then next RA is innocent but RL is guilty but it was a group.

Can't follow the all over the place. I'd say and give the benefit of the doubt that you're open to anything with no opinion but you're not. You are set 100 percent on RL. So that isn't it either, that you are waiting for more to condemn anyone at all.

 

[GrandmaBear]

The video was made by an FBI agent. I think they know more than you or I about phone pings.

And if so, and it was firm, they'd have given more detail than they did. It was vague. Were they after a warrant? I did not go outside of here to YT to watch it where I would have seen the channel it was on but watched it here, but someone was narrating an agent's document which I took to be a YTer not another agent. He finishes the end of the video talking of his opinion. Did you watch it all yourself? Or hear only what you wanted to?

I don't know if I've seen his thing on it before but I know I've read or heard the contents of what the agent wrote some time back. And I recall not giving most of it much weight for some reason. Did she do it as part of her job, for a warrant or on her own? I can't recall.

Much in it is true but of the same old same old like his lie and asking his cousin for an alibi. He had PLENTY of reason to do that aside from that he killed the girls. This man did NOT want to get in trouble and I seriously doubt he planned a murder of two girls.

You'd have to tie him to RA or KK for me. Other than that, RL had nothing to do with it. It's like when Linda did her thing on him, I believe I was likely the one that shared that here and from then on you were latched onto him. It was interesting and she made good arguments. Back when. She is no expert though, she's just an average citizen YTer with an interest in crime and her own takes. Canadian YTer. I haven't heard what she has thought since though. She is barely back up and trying to do videos or keep up with cases. Like me, no time. She's had a few more lately but not on Delphi and she's behind the 8 ball on most.

You believe and see and hear what you want to and even when in your own video that guy covered other real possibilities for the lies, etc. apparently you ignored that. I suppose we all do to a point.

Also he said who she was in the beginning, how man years with the FBI as an agent and how many years at some town's PD. Right off the bat, it was clear she was no specialist and for some reason I remember this and keep thinking she didn't do this as part of her job but to put out here thoughts. Not sure, no time to research.

Either way that cell phone sh*t that he was right with the girls' bodies I don't buy one bit of. Yeah he likely was, in his own home "by" the girl's bodies 1400 feet away. From anything we have seen they don't have those kind of specifics in this case with phones nor did they like triangulate or whatever to any phone used in that area on that day by ANYONE.

I've never gotten like some with you about RL in that they say leave him alone, he wasn't part of it, and they're sure but I am getting there now as you are putting way too much into nothing.

Sorry Big Bird. Connect him to RA. Because RA is guilty.

YES he asked someone to lie for a alibi. That's been discussed to death. And real reasons for it OTHER than he murdered these girls.

Tell me why it is you think LE would abandon RL if they just wanted to solve the case and pin it on someone? He would have been the EASY answer. They did him no favors even before the murders. He was arrested, charged, put on probation for drinking and they charged him DUE to him driving that day did they not? LE seemed to hold no special fondness for him nor do him any favors.

If they were going to frame someone well come on?? Explain it.

Nothing I am sorry you think adds up.

Again if you had one reasonable scenario maybe. You have this guy guilty because he lived there, did not want to go to jail so had someone lie when this all happened near him everything you cite has been hashed out here and elsewhere for ages and long before RA's arrest. And came to nothing.

RA and KK on the other hand have things that could connect them that can't be ignored.

KK was KNOWN to have had a meeting set with Libby. RA actually went to the trails and DID murder the girls right where KK was to have met LIbby but didn't. As Tresir said other things like living on the same street (that one I knew before) father of KK and RA working at same place (heard it but not up on it before), etc.

There is NOTHING with Logan like this. And we don't even know that he wasn't in town at the time.

Word of warning. If you hear someone was murdered in your complex, don't make a phone call. It will be evidence of your guilt that you called someone in normal course or to say hey, guess what or what the heck is going on or even called your brother or gf. That's what you are doing with some of it.

I suspect they KNOW RL was not involved. Defense didn't try to use him which is curious. Probably because they have the discovery and know better and we don't.

 

[GrandmaBear]

The video was made by an FBI agent. I think they know more than you or I about phone pings.

Also some likely do of course. But I can tell you something about them with a GPS tracker that makes it look like a person is out in a field a 1/2 mile away but they are driving down the road past that field. Personal knowledge. And it's due to towers and how close it can get to accuracy.

There was not a thing said this agent was any cell expert. Or any expert of anything. I swear I remember this and when I get time will go back and try to find what I recall. Pretty sure I saw it on some other show and I am pretty sure not everyone she worked with or in the case agreed with it.

Ya know Koffendoffer who is a talking head often on Vinnie and a lot of other places I'm not always enamored with either nor do I think her arguments on her positions always have any basis and she was F B I. So what. You think all cops are crooked but anoint anyone who says what you believe and make them purveyors of gospel. Lol.

Sorry, kind of miss picking on ya and not being around much. Sorry but not Big Bird.

 

[GrandmaBear]

If it was a lie to cover the fact he was driving, then why give the wrong times?

Because by then he knew they were looking for the girls, hadn't found them and even though innocent, knew they were going to want to know where he was, how he had got there and more. Take note that he did not murder the girls (like you think) and then in short order ask his cousin to give him an alibi. It was after the community and definitely he learned what what was up and that they were missing. In fact I believe it was the next day.

Your own video which I watched this morning COVERS this at the ending of it. Quit ignoring that part and possibility. The man was scared of getting in trouble for driving and I seroiusly doubt he wanted to put himself away for good by murdering two girls we have no reason to think he did.

I can leave him way back in my rearview mirror as a slight possiblity as ANOTHER but that's it. There isn't much reason for that for many but I do, nd there certainly isn't reason for more than that. Imo.

I'd also add which I don't think I've ever said until now that I don't think they quit investigating him because he died, I think they learned or know he didn't do this. I think the defense knows it too.

But like with almost everything we are going to have to wait and see and no one may believe it but I wouldn't doubt it will be another few years. Which bites and is unfair to victims, families and witnesses.

 

[Tresir]

Refresh me on where talk of fingerprints came from? I know hair and fibers were mentioned in his video he posted which was a narrative of something written by an Fed agent.

And yes, emu keeps stating things as facts that are not facts. We don't know if they know that prints and DNA belong to someone else but he states it does flat out. Not so. I'll take a link too thank you very much emu.

Leazenby apparently said it some time ago.

 

[Tresir]

Leazenby says in a video soon after the deaths that they have DNA and fingerprints. They have not, so far, said they match RA. The interview is in he video @Olenna posted.

Ok thanks. I'll have a listen.

 

[Tresir]

If it was a lie to cover the fact he was driving, then why give the wrong times?

What were the wrong times? He left at around 2:30 pm, drove himself to Lafayette and got back about 6 pm. The driving time alone would be about an hour and a half which gave him 2 hours in Lafayette. Before that, on the same day he was caught driving on the camera at 12.30 pm at the waste transfer station on his own anyway, so that's what did it for him.

So, according to you, a 77 year old cleared out junk and took it to a waste station at 12.30 pm then drove to Freedom bridge and was seen on the trails and bridge between 1-2pm, was caught on camera on the bridge kidnapping the girls using RA's gun at 2.15pm. He subsequently undressed them and murdered them, redressing one in the other's clothes and staged the murder scene on his own property, then walked from the murder scene away from his property (2.30 to 4pm) back to his car at Freedom bridge, drove back to his property and vehicle to clean up and drive to Lafayette arriving approx 5 pm to purchase some tropical fish, returning home by 6pm to be there to answer his door. It's just not feasible.

 

[Sunburst]

You seem to think that the perp would walk around without any attempt to hide himself. That doesn't seem logical to me. If BG is Ron Logan he could easily get to the bridge without anybody seeing him. One of the reasons they got a search warrant is because RL had been identified as BG. Suddenly it isn't the 5'11" man anymore. It's the 5'4" man. This doesn't bother you?

RL ALWAYS carried a gun. That's from those who knew him well.



He wasn't driving to the store at the times he claims. He told his cousin to tell cops that he came back between five and five thirty. The receipt is timed at 5:21. He had a lot of free time before he went to the fish store.

He'd never asked his cousin to lie for him before. He didn't ask him to lie about his trip earlier in the day. He wanted an alibi for a specific time frame, that just happened to be when Libby and Abby went missing.

One theory I have is that the girls weren't killed until much later in the day. That might explain the 10pm phone call from the vicinity of the bodies. Maybe "It's done." The FBI agent has some powerful thoughts on it being a group of people involved. I'm 99.99999999% sure more than one was involved, and that RL was one of them.

Also, in the video where Leazenby is interviewed, he sounds like BG too. Similar sounding voices aren't hard to come by. Fortunately, me, my brother and my father are the only three in my family cursed with my strange vocal tones.

There is no way in hl that RL could have made it from the Lafayette fish store to Delphi in 9 minutes, arriving in Delphi at 5:30. That receipt was dated 5:21.

I drove the road from Delphi to Lafayette many times as a college student. You are looking at a 20 min-30 minute drive. If the fish store is by the Lafayette mall, closer to 40 minutes. Maybe 20 minutes from Lafayette to Delphi if you ignore the speed limits and want to risk getting a ticket on a 2 lane curving road with cornfields and several small hills on either side, which is pretty much what the road from Delphi to Lafayette is. I am betting he arrived back in Delphi a lot closer to 6 p.m.

Add to that it was a weekday. He would have run into the 5 p.m. rush hour work traffic leaving Lafayette.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

There is no way in hl that RL could have made it from the Lafayette fish store to Delphi in 9 minutes, arriving in Delphi at 5:30. That receipt was dated 5:21.

I drove the road from Delphi to Lafayette many times as a college student. You are looking at a 20 min-30 minute drive. If the fish store is by the Lafayette mall, closer to 40 minutes. Maybe 20 minutes from Lafayette to Delphi if you ignore the speed limits and want to risk getting a ticket on a 2 lane curving road with cornfields and several small hills, on either side, which is pretty much what the road from Delphi to Lafayette is. I am betting he arrived back in Delphi a lot closer to 6 p.m.

Add to that it was a weekday. He would have run into the 5 p.m. rush hour work traffic leaving Lafayette.

Would you agree that his lie would give him time to cover up any time he was helping with the girls?

 

[Sunburst]

Would you agree that his lie would give him time to cover up any time he was helping with the girls?

MOO. MOO, MOO:
If he was involved, I don't see a 70 year old physically helping move their bodies as far as carrying them.
I would be curious as to what equipment was on the property and who had access to it. Front loader? Tractor with wagon attached? No one driving by would think twice if they saw a tractor or some sort of equipment moving in a field in February on a fairly nice day. " He's getting an early start on plowing while the weather is nice" and drives merrily down the road on their way.
Maybe helping dispose of some items, yes, if he knew who the perp(s) was/were. Remember how LE was searching for, and asked the public to be on the lookout for, any backpacks that may have been disposed of, especially dark color backpacks.

And on RA and KK knowing each other, maybe. It is possible that they knew OF each other thru their online activities, but had never actually met each other in person.

An analogy would be Regular Person knows of Famous Celebrity, the movies they have starred in, who they are dating, what their newest project is, awards shows Celebrity has attended, etc.but has never actually met Famous Celebrity in person.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

MOO. MOO, MOO:
If he was involved, I don't see a 70 year old physically helping move their bodies as far as carrying them.
I would be curious as to what equipment was on the property and who had access to it. Front loader? Tractor with wagon attached? No one driving by would think twice if they saw a tractor or some sort of equipment moving in a field in February on a fairly nice day. " He's getting an early start on plowing while the weather is nice" and drives merrily down the road on their way.
Maybe helping dispose of some items, yes, if he knew who the perp(s) was/were. Remember how LE was searching for, and asked the public to be on the lookout for, any backpacks that may have been disposed of, especially dark color backpacks.

And on RA and KK knowing each other, maybe. It is possible that they knew OF each other thru their online activities, but had never actually met each other in person.

An analogy would be Regular Person knows of Famous Celebrity, the movies they have starred in, who they are dating, what their newest project is, awards shows Celebrity has attended, etc.but has never actually met Famous Celebrity in person.

Thanks, he doesn't seem to have a lot of limitations despite his age, but I'm sure others were involved too.

 

[RoundPeg]

There is no way in hl that RL could have made it from the Lafayette fish store to Delphi in 9 minutes, arriving in Delphi at 5:30. That receipt was dated 5:21.

I drove the road from Delphi to Lafayette many times as a college student. You are looking at a 20 min-30 minute drive. If the fish store is by the Lafayette mall, closer to 40 minutes. Maybe 20 minutes from Lafayette to Delphi if you ignore the speed limits and want to risk getting a ticket on a 2 lane curving road with cornfields and several small hills on either side, which is pretty much what the road from Delphi to Lafayette is. I am betting he arrived back in Delphi a lot closer to 6 p.m.

Add to that it was a weekday. He would have run into the 5 p.m. rush hour work traffic leaving Lafayette.

Agreed on the time. It looks to be 30 minutes one way to get the fish.

Also, just a general detail thing for everyone. Ron Logan was 77 at the time of the murders. There is a huge difference between 70 and 77.

 

[Tresir]

Agreed on the time. It looks to be 30 minutes one way to get the fish.

Also, just a general detail thing for everyone. Ron Logan was 77 at the time of the murders. There is a huge difference between 70 and 77.

Only 7 years.

I didnt realise he was closer to 80.than 70. So he died in 2021 IIRC of Covid - he would have been aged 81 then.

I edited my post.

 

[GrandmaBear]

I'm with Tresir on this one, it isn't only not feasible it's rather ridiculous. I just can't see someone having some fantasized group murder or ritual murder or whatever with his buddies, they do it, all scatter, saying "been fun, let's do it again sometime, and in short order and he showers and runs to the fish store.

Also as to his age, why would a man this age even think about or want to do something like this? You don't see many elderly murderers, especially of school aged children on a trail and in the woods no less. What drove him to it? Seriously? Sexual urges and fantasy? I highly doubt it. Odinism. I TOTALLY doubt it. Peer pressure? Ha ha, at his age?

No time to read and respond, back to the grindstone argggh growl.

 

[Tresir]

Yep and I don't believe in too many coinkydinks and it is too many. Same street, worked same place, kids same age, both men connected to same dead girl/s at same place in same town. And on and on. All these things are why I can't dismiss a KK and RA connection of SOME time and think there almost has to be one.

For me, it's where things lead and are logical. Either scenario I feel I have settled on is not out there with nothing indicating such. RA imo is definitely guilty. And if someone else plays in in any way at all it connects to Kline and the online thing, etc. And likely the pedo thing.

I think too that KK's dad got away with sh*t and KK covered for it.

You mean RA and the father of Kline worked together right? You don't mean Allen's father and Kline's father worked together? It's clear but just want to be certain.

There were questions and talk with Kline and perhaps from him of some friend that night if I recall. Going back to his interviews might be interesting now but I sure don't have time for that. If only because when they questioned KK we knew they were wondering who else accessed the dropbox etc. and all sorts of hinted questions but we had NO IDEA at that time of RA or anything about him. Not that he ever gave any big information that would be worth it I guess.

Anyhow, yeah, I don't know how anyone can dismiss SOME connection here with KK and RA and RA ending up with THESE girls at the very place Kline was to meet Libby. Way too coincidental, beyond actually.

Yes KK's father and RA worked at Chrysler, I believe. I haven't got a link to hand though.

 

[Tresir]

I guess this is pointless until more comes out. You're "Maybes" and other excuses can't be proven just as much as mine can't. However, I think there is a mountain of evidence pointing to RLs involvement and more than one person being involved.

Who are you addressing here? Me or GBear. I will answer one more time but I am not wasting any more posts on RL.

There is no mountain, it is an ant hill and he is no longer a POI. Let the guy RIP.

 

[Sunburst]

Agreed on the time. It looks to be 30 minutes one way to get the fish.

Also, just a general detail thing for everyone. Ron Logan was 77 at the time of the murders. There is a huge difference between 70 and 77.

Thank you. I read 70 in the original post and thought he was older, then decided I was wrong.

 

[Tresir]

Apparently RA, KK and JC are all in Wabash Correctional now.

 

[Tresir]

Thank you. I read 70 in the original post and thought he was older, then decided I was wrong.

Sorry, I updated my post now. I meant to say he was in his 70's - I didn't know his exact age.