LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

1581272168478.png

Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


1581272119747.png


 
Last edited by a moderator:
In part two at 24:00 Sherrif Leazanby says that fingerprints were collected, but they don't know if they belonged to the killer. Do those fingerprints match Allen's?

He then says they have DNA, but they don't know if it's the murderers. Does it match Allen's? If it did I'm sure they would have said so at a press conference. LISKS presser said it right off and said how they acquired his DNA.

I'd bet dollars to donuts that the DNA doesn't match Allen's.
As for DNA they've always been funny with answers on DNA, skirting, talking unclearly. I watched Abby's mom asked once in recent years why not go for the familial or genealogy thing with the DNA and she didn't seem too interested or see a reason, I don't have the words, it is hard to explain. What I mean is you'd think she'd want it, push for it but she was kind of noncommittal with no real response on it too.

It could be very well that it's just transfer or touch or who knows. I mean Kelsey gave one or was it both of the girl's one of her sweatshirts. I mean her bf's DNA could be on it, her classmate's, etc. DNA is still very unclear in this case OTHER than defense claims and what was said in LE depos which would seem to indicate no matches. At least at that point in time. How old is what you are watching because through the years they kept us guessing on DNA.
 
Yeah - we have to wait for that - it is 9 months away yet. :bored:

He certainly had several strings to his bow.

Where does/did KA work?
Not if defense files speedy trial and puts their money where their mouth was claiming that was the plan and asking the ISC to rule on it who denied it as they'd never filed it.

Is there a time limit as to when they can demand one? Can they at any time in the process? I guess I don't know.

I thought she worked at Wally World but not sure she still was but that's what I thought.
 
Personally, I don't believe Abby had a phone and would need a link to believe it. Eg was it found at the scene along with Libby's? We have all heard that Libby "reset' her phone and that is something that was reported that KK did to wipe some of his phone records so it does make me wonder if A. Shots told Libby to do that prior to their meet up and even whether he told her to post pics of the bridge up online once they were there. It would not surprise me at all.

I just came across this article that is a complete list with links to all the articles J & C have done on this case. So am posting here as a resource.

I have the same kind of thoughts. He had her/them wipe it OR she was trying to get out of and away from something she'd come to realize was bad and not what or who she thought. I do think the snapchat photo may well have been something asked for/told to do when they got there, etc. It's odd in their time there it was the only one imo. It let the person waiting know the minute they were in that vulnerable position without them having to have seen him prior. He just waited... Hid. Watched. Something on that order.

Libby's wipe took off too the app where the family could have found them by her phone. Not good.

Yet do you remember the talk in the early days that her phone was pinging all over town that night? Seems to me that came from LE too and it was in not long, shut down... Long time ago but I have watched it all through the years.
 
Personally, I don't believe Abby had a phone and would need a link to believe it. Eg was it found at the scene along with Libby's? We have all heard that Libby "reset' her phone and that is something that was reported that KK did to wipe some of his phone records so it does make me wonder if A. Shots told Libby to do that prior to their meet up and even whether he told her to post pics of the bridge up online once they were there. It would not surprise me at all.

I just came across this article that is a complete list with links to all the articles J & C have done on this case. So am posting here as a resource.

And yeah, Id have to see confirmation too. I've heard talk somewhere of Abby having a phone but know I never heard anything that made me believe it was fact as I recall.
 
That call was probably to his mate for his driving alibi.
It could have been anything and means little. Just as the call at 2ish means little. Could mean something or both could mean people have lives and they make phone calls and so what. All that both do is place him both there or his phone there and not in town at those exact times.
 
The real guy in the A.shots profile is a policeman himself, in Alaska. I am sure LE would have directly contacted him before using the pic.

If you put the A.shots pic next to KK, it is quite evident why KK used the A.shots profile.
It is quite obvious. It's terrifying that girls this age are so naive as to believe someone like that could really be seriously interested in them. And these types know it and take advantage of that.

They're teens, what DO you do about it. You can teach them, warn them, take their phones at night when they head for their room and they could still have a burner or end up enamored with some hot guy or who they believe to be. You could set up your wifi and internet to be safe and they could still buy mobile time, etc.

It's terrifying. Imo. More needs to be done.
 
Who's DNA and fingerprints did they find? They weren't RAs or we'd already know, IMO. I believe we'd know by now if there was a cat hair match.

The only reason RA is arrested is that his car (How do they know it's his car?) is seen on video and he admitted to being there.

RL had the bodies found on his land and someone using his cell phone made a call around 10pm from the area the bodies were found at. He lied about his whereabouts that day. Was it just to avoid probation violation or more?
I completely disagree. The only things like that we know are only what the defense would want us to and not what they don't. Prosecution has only and will continue to only share what they needed to get probably cause, etc. and have the case proceed. Imo. We don't have the discovery, far from it. Serious LE agencies do it that way. The ones that share ALL or more like in LISK have reasons and believe me they haven't shared all.

There's certainly a possibility there is no more but I think there is. And I think it panicked Allen and then his defense.
 
Who's DNA and fingerprints did they find? They weren't RAs or we'd already know, IMO. I believe we'd know by now if there was a cat hair match.

The only reason RA is arrested is that his car (How do they know it's his car?) is seen on video and he admitted to being there.

RL had the bodies found on his land and someone using his cell phone made a call around 10pm from the area the bodies were found at. He lied about his whereabouts that day. Was it just to avoid probation violation or more?
I don't trust that part of your video at all as to where he was on his property. Much has been said about the lack of towers, etc. in Delphi and in that area. He was present at home yes, at the scene the girls were found dead at I don't buy for a minute. And at 10 if he was he could have well been looking for them and weren't some searchers out all night or some such?

Anyhow I found that part of your video and the points the weakest of all I noted that instantly. People make phone calls and by now I'm sure he probably knew there were girls missing. Everyone was probably making calls and it happened near him. He could have even been returning a call. I imagine LE knows who he called. Even if he did kill them which he didn't, what does a ten p.m. phone call mean? Nothing. They are attempting to say he was near or at the place the girls were found dead and it's really weak. They were found only 1400 feet from his house. If he was home or pulling in, etc. anywhere there he'd be near them. He LIVED there.

RA was at the trails and did not have the misfortune of living there. RA was on the right side of the bridge, Logan was not. You doubt they have the right guy in RA and don't think they have a strong case but you have RL guilty with basically NO case or physical evidence of any kind.

You know I haven't dismissed him but a lot of what you quote isn't solid nor means anything solid AND in fact some doesn't fit together at all. Especially with you having RL as BG.

As for the agent's thing, they are trying to come up with enough for a warrant and to build a case and that's the best they had which wasn't much that was solid. It's interesting, it can make sense and add up but there isn't a bit of meat in it except the lies and fake alibi. And that's not enough.
 
You seem to believe that it doesn't take long to build a case against someone. How did LISK and other serial killers get away with it for so long? DAs will frustrate the Police by turning down the prosecution of a suspect because they don't have enough evidence yet. They have to get enough evidence that a DA feels confident will lead to a conviction.

So someone other than RA left DNA and fingerprints at the crime scene, and yet you are sure he acted alone.
You don't know this. None of us do. We don't know where either were found, the significance or what results if any there were. There could have been other prints on Libby's phone and that could be meaningless. There could be other DNA on Kelsey's sweatshirt and it well could be meaningless. OR either COULD be RA's. We do NOT know all.

People also have to consider the time of some articles and videos. I'm sure most testing re Allen commenced after his arrest. Could even still be going on for all we know on things collected from him. Experts are being consulted with and all that jazz and things continue right UP TO trial.

In some cases, it doesn't take long to build a case, not all take a long time. Sometimes they only need one key thing and that's it and in some they have all they need immediately although they'll keep adding, they still charge IMMEDIATELY almost.

She can speak for herself but I don't know that Tresir is sold on it being him alone. Just the other day she talked the pedo ring connection yet. As do I on either.

I'd say she and I are honed on the most likely based on all we know, you're out there by yourself with your thoughts. If you thought it was RL and he wasn't bridge guy and brought it to a more logical scenario, well then maybe. And you're certainly entitled to your opinion but to believe ours don't make more sense and are more likely is a bit ridiculous.

Allen had time to do this himself. Plenty. Just as BK did in the Idaho 4. The only way he didn't is with what the DEFENSE tries to assert as facts with "their interpretation". Even then I wouldn't say he didn't have time necessarily. Of COURSE the defense wants to make it seem that way. I suspect the same will be brought up in Kohberger. One man on his own?? The thing IS even saying that does not remove THEIR guy as a murderer and from being at the scene. Nothing does. If there were others or indication of other/s, well that's something we are going to need to wait to see I guess.

Another thing, there has been no HINT of Allen indicating others in his confessions. If he had and it seemed to have basis, I am pretty sure more would be going on.

His defense later indicated Os but did he when he confessed?? Huh? Their sh*t among other intents is to try to make the confessions go away, as well as the warrant and the results. And more.

They protest too loudly and too much and you know what they say about those that do...
 
First, his cousin doesn't say he called him at 10pm. Second, why did he call near the bodies?
Could be a gf or a buddy. Who knows.

And that by the bodies remark seems to have nothing solid behind it. Let's see it. If Logan was in his home or in his truck in his driveway he is near the bodies. I have intense distrust of that. They were trying to make enough to get what they needed and yes, if he was home he was near the bodies. He was in Lafayette at 5:21, do you have any idea when he got home? Do we? I don't think so if I recall. I think it also made some remark of him being outside at some point they thought by his phone. Was it that one? Yeah he could have well pulled in and stepped out of his truck and made a call saying they are still searching I see lights in the woods, or they're not OR just to call someone and say he'd made it home safe without arrest after having drinks with them. It could be ANYTHING.

I don't trust their dialed in precise location of his phone and they also don't really hammer it, it's vague.

Much has been made of the lack of towers, reception and such for certain data at the trails/in Delphi.
 
IMO, we'd already know both. They told us they matched the unspent shell markings to his gun. So why hold back on telling us it's RA's fingerprint on the shell? Why wouldn't they tell us they have a match on the cat's DNA? Every police investigation holds some things back so if somebody gives out some of that evidence in an interview they'll ask how they know that. They never said anything about the unspent bullet until much later and after RAs arrest, IIRC.

So why would they hold back a fingerprint match and DNA evidence? In fact the press conference for LISK led off with the DNA match so people would be certain they'd gotten the right guy and could relax, IMO.

I'm re-listening to this video:

It was made approx. 6 months prior to RAs arrest.




Logans voice was rated "not inconsistent with the voice on the phone saying 'Down the hill.'"

The girls bodies were moved and staged. They were staged. They were not just lying around after they'd been killed. The killer moved them and staged them in a certain way. What way? Why? Is the staging in an Odinist fashion the way they were staged?

Fibers and hairs were found that should be useful in identifying the killer. Have any been linked to RA? We'd probably know about that by now.

The search warrant of RLs property was limited to firearms and his main residence. There's a barn they didn't search and a lot of other places on his land.

Logan's cousin was instructed by Logan to tell the police he came to take Logan to the fish store between 2pm and 2:30pm on February 13th and they returned home around five or 5:30pm. The fish store receipt said it was 5:21pm. Logan must have had a time machine to accomplish that. That phone call came on the morning of the 14th before the bodies were found. When a subject creates an alibi prior to the discovery of a crime it indicates culpability, in investigators experience. Logan never asked his cousin to lie about his driving to the transfer station.

An LEO told Logan, while asking for permission to search his house, that they would not search Logan's house unless they had evidence to lead them to that. Logan said he didn't think they'd find evidence like that, but then said: "I don't know."

Logan's cousin also told the police that the picture of BG looked like Logan.

As soon as a woman who'd been having a sexual relationship with Logan was interviewed she said that when she first heard about the finding of Libby and Abby's bodies she thought immediately that Logan was somehow involved.

There's more and there's a analysis of why he would ask his cousin to lie without it being tied to the murders.

There are a lot of questions you say you don't have an answer for, or have a "he could have..." You've convicted him on very little evidence.

Why would Allen tell police he was in the park if he did the crime?

He may well have had a right during certain hours to drive, like to the transfer station and for certain purposes. Many on DUIs do. Most in fact unless they've had umpteen. So he did not worry about that one.

Your own guy in the video as well as countless others have given the reasons he'd do that and they're very reasonable and logical.

Here you jump from RL to Os again.

WITH LISK they came out with a long term deeply investigated case and circled all news and more for a HUGE presser. They would have kept it quiet and kept investigating if not feeling there was too much risk he'd strike again. They haven't shared all. And they'd already done a majority of testing and cell phone analysis and more long before his arrest. The cases aren't the same nor are the areas nor the want of publicity.

Most NEVER give all their key evidence in a probable cause nor a preliminary. It comes out and can be figured out often some of it as cases proceeds, hearings are held and things are filed. This case was sealed and even now imo is barely off the ground, started. Been mostly defense b.s. and nothing more for info.

Do as you like but it would be nice if you'd dial into one or two scenarios instead of all these mismatching mix of people, theories and events and in the very next sentence go another way I swear.

All I can gather is RL has to be BG, he did it but not by himself but with Os I take it. Is that the case? Then start adding in and fixing what doesn't work with that because it doesn't work. Is RA there? And the Os? Are you done with the pedo ring or are you simply on all of them but RL has to be BG and there too?

Not trying to be mean, you just are all over the place imo I think because you can't make it work.
 
IMO, we'd already know both. They told us they matched the unspent shell markings to his gun. So why hold back on telling us it's RA's fingerprint on the shell? Why wouldn't they tell us they have a match on the cat's DNA? Every police investigation holds some things back so if somebody gives out some of that evidence in an interview they'll ask how they know that. They never said anything about the unspent bullet until much later and after RAs arrest, IIRC.

So why would they hold back a fingerprint match and DNA evidence? In fact the press conference for LISK led off with the DNA match so people would be certain they'd gotten the right guy and could relax, IMO.

I'm re-listening to this video:

It was made approx. 6 months prior to RAs arrest.




Logans voice was rated "not inconsistent with the voice on the phone saying 'Down the hill.'"

The girls bodies were moved and staged. They were staged. They were not just lying around after they'd been killed. The killer moved them and staged them in a certain way. What way? Why? Is the staging in an Odinist fashion the way they were staged?

Fibers and hairs were found that should be useful in identifying the killer. Have any been linked to RA? We'd probably know about that by now.

The search warrant of RLs property was limited to firearms and his main residence. There's a barn they didn't search and a lot of other places on his land.

Logan's cousin was instructed by Logan to tell the police he came to take Logan to the fish store between 2pm and 2:30pm on February 13th and they returned home around five or 5:30pm. The fish store receipt said it was 5:21pm. Logan must have had a time machine to accomplish that. That phone call came on the morning of the 14th before the bodies were found. When a subject creates an alibi prior to the discovery of a crime it indicates culpability, in investigators experience. Logan never asked his cousin to lie about his driving to the transfer station.

An LEO told Logan, while asking for permission to search his house, that they would not search Logan's house unless they had evidence to lead them to that. Logan said he didn't think they'd find evidence like that, but then said: "I don't know."

Logan's cousin also told the police that the picture of BG looked like Logan.

As soon as a woman who'd been having a sexual relationship with Logan was interviewed she said that when she first heard about the finding of Libby and Abby's bodies she thought immediately that Logan was somehow involved.

There's more and there's a analysis of why he would ask his cousin to lie without it being tied to the murders.

There are a lot of questions you say you don't have an answer for, or have a "he could have..." You've convicted him on very little evidence.

Why would Allen tell police he was in the park if he did the crime?

So what did they do take the girls to Logan's barn or home and then murder them and move them but wait first RL had to run to the fish store and get there by 5:21. Did his O and pedo friends and RA just stay at his place waiting for him to get back to start ?

And don't try telling me it was someone else's receipt because I think that's far fetched and far fetched to think it wasn't looked into.

Or do you think 5 or 10 people were right there in the woods together did it right away and then Logan went to town to the fish store and all his buddies what scattered? Did they call taxis? Where were they all parked? WERE ANY seen other than RA? Any O? Any RL? Seen coming? Seen leaving? Seen on camera? Seen by others? Seen together at the gas station?

I don't know emu. We have a man who placed himself there and confessed and whose bullet was there. Against whatever thing you are thinking that you cannot make make sense because it just doesn't.

Again a simpler version might including RL but even then there is absolutely nothing to back it up. Nada.
 
IMO, we'd already know both. They told us they matched the unspent shell markings to his gun. So why hold back on telling us it's RA's fingerprint on the shell? Why wouldn't they tell us they have a match on the cat's DNA? Every police investigation holds some things back so if somebody gives out some of that evidence in an interview they'll ask how they know that. They never said anything about the unspent bullet until much later and after RAs arrest, IIRC.

So why would they hold back a fingerprint match and DNA evidence? In fact the press conference for LISK led off with the DNA match so people would be certain they'd gotten the right guy and could relax, IMO.

I'm re-listening to this video:

It was made approx. 6 months prior to RAs arrest.




Logans voice was rated "not inconsistent with the voice on the phone saying 'Down the hill.'"

The girls bodies were moved and staged. They were staged. They were not just lying around after they'd been killed. The killer moved them and staged them in a certain way. What way? Why? Is the staging in an Odinist fashion the way they were staged?

Fibers and hairs were found that should be useful in identifying the killer. Have any been linked to RA? We'd probably know about that by now.

The search warrant of RLs property was limited to firearms and his main residence. There's a barn they didn't search and a lot of other places on his land.

Logan's cousin was instructed by Logan to tell the police he came to take Logan to the fish store between 2pm and 2:30pm on February 13th and they returned home around five or 5:30pm. The fish store receipt said it was 5:21pm. Logan must have had a time machine to accomplish that. That phone call came on the morning of the 14th before the bodies were found. When a subject creates an alibi prior to the discovery of a crime it indicates culpability, in investigators experience. Logan never asked his cousin to lie about his driving to the transfer station.

An LEO told Logan, while asking for permission to search his house, that they would not search Logan's house unless they had evidence to lead them to that. Logan said he didn't think they'd find evidence like that, but then said: "I don't know."

Logan's cousin also told the police that the picture of BG looked like Logan.

As soon as a woman who'd been having a sexual relationship with Logan was interviewed she said that when she first heard about the finding of Libby and Abby's bodies she thought immediately that Logan was somehow involved.

There's more and there's a analysis of why he would ask his cousin to lie without it being tied to the murders.

There are a lot of questions you say you don't have an answer for, or have a "he could have..." You've convicted him on very little evidence.

Why would Allen tell police he was in the park if he did the crime?

He told them because he KNEW he was seen and if he didn't come forward about being at the park (but note not on the bridge, not at first) he'd look like he was hiding something when it was found out. Sorry but duh. That's obvious.
 
The FBI agent narrator also believes more than one guy was involved in this. Logan could have gotten back to his house without anybody seeing him. Thus the invention of muddy/bloody witness for RA.
The video guy was far from sold on it. I did listen to it.

And he seemed to lean towards the pedo thing IF more than one and IF RL was involved. Not Os.

So you have this huge thing you've planned with a group that I would think from their sick end was anticipated and awaited and to be a big event and in short order all are disbanded and you run to the fish store? Okay. Buy that if you want to, it's ludicrous to me. That receipt is huge to me.

Lay out your scenario with time frame and events. First of all when and how many were there and when did they get to Logan's or where was each stationed? And let's start with how the plan came about to begin with, how they all knew each other, where they met, how they communicated? What was the plan and the why?

I'm not saying you know or have to know as none of us know all, but what are you thinking? And go from there. And remember to put RL on the bridge AT the right time.

There's plenty of reason people dismiss Logan. He only works as a possibility in one way for me and that's somewhat unlikely too with no evidence he knew Allen at all nor had any relationship with him just in life or as a pedo or any. There's ONLY a thing or two in common with KK. Not with Logan. There is NOTIHNG tying RL to these girls in any way. There is with RA and KK. SOLIDLY.
 
I think muddy/bloody/fight guy was walking the opposite way, towards the old CPS building. And RL could have just walked back to his house all on his own land, but anyway, he was in Lafayette FFS having pizza and beer and buying fish (without chips).
We know he was in Lafayette at 5:21. I don't know that they can place him there at the time of the murders/girls' disappearance. The alibi was a lie as to someone driving him there and whether we will ever know what time he drove himself to Lafeyette and left home, I'm not sure. I'd think they would have looked into it but how quickly...?

So I don't think we know or am I forgetting something that tell us?
 
All I can say is that if it were me, and I'd done that crime. I would never admit to have being there.
Again he felt he had to when weighing if it was realized he was there and he hadn't come forward how that would look. That's obvious and makes perfect sense.
 
Why would we know by now? They have to keep some evidence under their hat.

They know RA was there because he told DD he was there, where he parked, what time and who he saw on the trails - didn't mention the girls though, which is funny because he would have seen them, as he was there at the exact same times. Don't forget, when he told DD all that, he didn't know Libby had filmed him.

So how did they triangulate RL's 10pm call accurately when there is only one cell tower there? Any call RL made on his own property would have registered on the network as he lived pretty close to the crime scene anyway. The girls were found on his property. If you were going to abduct and kill two girls, why would you do it on your own property?
That's what I said. I don't think they have a pinpointed precise anything that puts him right with the girls but only on his own property. Much has been made of the one cell tower and pinging and such there and the lack of accuracy. We also don't know when the girls were placed there.

Like it or not, even though unlikely we have no way to know 100 percent that the girls were even there that night. They very most likely were but it's just a little piece that unfortunately still hangs at the back of my mind. For it not not to be the case, it would take too much that is unlikely.

The statement that they were moved and staged doesn't help.

There is MUCH we don't know yet and that they aren't going to tell us more about and that's one thing right there. Not until they have to.
 
Or he didn't mention the girls because it wasn't him. There was definitely more than just RA involved. The more I look at it, the more I think he may not have been involved at all. He told the police he was there and someone on the police force who had something to hide found a guy who said he was there and has framed him, poorly at that.
Yeah and five or some years later a cop snuck into his house and placed a gun he admitted for some reason was his which matched a bullet they found way back when long before they decided to frame him.

COME ON ALREADY.

You think in all cases these days that cops framed the person but at least don't do it where it doesn't work or add up in the way you just said as if it could. It doesn't work.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
2,999
Messages
238,488
Members
953
Latest member
dayday
Back
Top Bottom